The left wing media myth debunked by the healthcare scam

[Aabidano]

Watching what little news there is on the health care legislation to me clearly shows where the newmedia's bread is buttered.
Where is the coverage showing that the current path they're taking is like buying insurance to cover your weekly grocery bill. Effectively giving a non-contributing third party 25% of your monthly healthcare costs for basically nothing.

Insurance is for one-off, unexpected costs, not day to day expenses. Would you buy insurance covering your monthly gas bill?

Single payer of any sort is a better deal, unless you work in the insurance industry of course.

The farcical healthcare legislation will hopefully fall flat on it's face, as it's worse than nothing IMO as once in place will set a precedent for the future.

So the media is leftwing?, not on your life. The talking heads on TV might be but as a corporation they follow the money and do what they're told. Think of the mountains of rocks the Bush admin handed them over the years, that generally only made a blip on the news.

[Tyek]

Insurance is for one-off, unexpected costs, not day to day expenses. Would you buy insurance covering your monthly gas bill?

????

It's insurance, not a monthly gas bill. If there was insurance that paid the difference if I went over a certain dollar amount per month, then yes I would pay for it. My stupid electric bill was 800 dollars this month. If I could pay 30 dollars a month to guarantee I only had to pay 200 each month and insurance would pay the difference. I would do it in a second.

Insurance guarantees that you will be covered IF something bad happens. I am not saying the plan in place is great, but your statement makes no sense. Are you saying you should only pay for insurance when you need it?

Sorry, maybe I am slow, I fractured my heel in 3 places and tore a ligament in my foot, so I am more focused on pain control, but I don't get your point in the statement.

As for the "Liberal" or "Conservative" media, if you look at the majority of the shows on the news channels, they are opinion based shows. Olbermann and Hannity are paid to push their agenda and are successful if they can piss off one group, while appealing to the other. If they do it right, they are watched by both segments of the audience. I am more concerned about media, like Fox, or even CNN pushing a specific agenda on their actual news portion of their schedule. While Fox is the worst offender, it is pretty easy to figure out what political slant CNN and MSNBC have as well.

[Canoe]

My stupid electric bill was 800 dollars this month.

Jesus - what the hell are you running that cost 800 dollar a month? Do you have a grocery store inside your house?

[Aabidano]

Insurance is for one-off, unexpected costs, not day to day expenses. Would you buy insurance covering your monthly gas bill?

Sorry, maybe I am slow, I fractured my heel in 3 places and tore a ligament in my foot, so I am more focused on pain control, but I don't get your point in the statement.

That's exactly the situation you buy insurance for. When I was a kid, my Dad's company only bought insurance for what I think is termed "catastrophic events" which covered things like that and follow on care. Broken bones, heart attacks, etc...

Starting in the early 70s they (Monsanto) had a company clinic near the plant for anything routine, prior to that it came out of the employees' pocket.

Your example with the electric bill illustrates the point well, no one would ever sell you a policy to cover an $800\month ongoing expense for less than $800 a month.

My point was, buying insurance from a for-profit from third party to cover routine medical care isn't a very good use of money, contrasted to a single payer system. Which has been blown completely off the table and hardly reported on.

[Tyek]

My stupid electric bill was 800 dollars this month.

Jesus - what the hell are you running that cost 800 dollar a month? Do you have a grocery store inside your house?

Apparently SCE has come up with a new way to make money. Instead of Peak Time and off peak time, they charge you for usage regardless of time, this way they maximize profits. I was running the pool at night thinking I was saving money, and did not know it did not matter. So I could have run it during the day, when it works better in fighting algae and other fun stuff pools get.

Sadly I spent 9k on a new more efficient AC, added occupancy sensors in the laundry room, (Since it had a 4 light fixture, figured it would cut costs.), everywhere possible we have compact flourescent lights. We have 2 refrigerators but both are newer, so they should be somewhat efficient. The house is only 1800 sq feet, but we do have a pool and spa. I asked SCE for an analysis because it is WAYYYYY to high. My neighbors bill this month was only 360 dollars. I don't think a 2 year old pool could add 400+ dollars, but we had 3 parties and so I did run the pump more on the pool. We do have 2 Xbox 360's, 2 playstation 2's, a WII and a playstation 3 as well as 5 flatscreen tv's, 2 desktops and 2 laptops, so that would be part of the problem, but again can't see it being 800.

[Fairweather Pure]

My house and appliaces seem very similar to yours, minus the pool. My bill was less than 300, and we run the air conditioner all the time. That's way too high.

[Fairweather Pure]

Also, my home has a frightening amount of windows, all single pane. I would imagine you have much better insulation than me because of that.

[Sylvus]

I believe that electricity is much more expensive in California than just about anywhere else, but that does seem pretty ridiculous.

[Aslanna]

I think the most my electric bill has been was $140. But it's usually around $90. But I live in Indiana.. Not sure what the going rate per kwh is. Gas was a bit high last year.. I hope it's cheaper this year. I believe the largest bill last winter for natural gas was $240 and I was like "omg this is crazy!". I just can't fathom any utilities over $300 a month... Total!

[Ashur]

Thanks derail, made the thread worth reading.

My electric bill is pretty high in the summer months because I cannot stand the heat and when it starts to cool off the allergies get to me. Also craptacular single-pane glass - and lots of it with my 4 sliding patio doors! That said, $800... ouch!! That's what happens when Mrs Ashur neglects paying the bill and hides them from me in her piloe-o-crap for several months.

[Canelek]

$800/month.... whew, I wouldn't be surprised if LAPD/DEA was doing regular thermal scans of your home for a hippy-lettuce grow operation.

That said, PGE reached a peak at around $160 for me in August when we had over a week of 100+ temps. I just have a portable 13K BTU, but it eats energy like Mrs. Pac Man.

[Zaelath]

I'd be more worried there was an indoor lettuce growing operation siphoning your power some how.

[Zver]

$800 a month sounds about right in the summer time and i dont have a pool but my house is a bit bigger sq wise. In the winter it goes down to about $200-$300 but than oil bill kicks in which could be a lot more than electiricity if we have a cold winter

[Chidoro]

I'd be curious to know what they were charging per kwh.
This was actually a pretty cool summer in NJ for the most part. Our electric bill topped out at $280 for July but our gas bill was only about $25. In winter, they just swap with each other so it's never a relief from month to month.

Media not left-wing? Jesus, you've got to be kidding.Your example of why it's not is ridiculous. Not that it really matters, news isn't news any longer, it's editorializing not reporting

[Aslanna]

$800 a month sounds about right in the summer time and i dont have a pool but my house is a bit bigger sq wise. In the winter it goes down to about $200-$300 but than oil bill kicks in which could be a lot more than electiricity if we have a cold winter

$800 is about right for where? Based on most of the responses here that's anything but normal in most parts of the country!

Anyway, on my recent bill 917 kWh used.. $71. Guess that's less than 8 cents per or something like that. Math is hard.

[Aabidano]

I had a 17 SEER AC unit put in in Apr, my electric bills have dropped $100-150 a month since. Peaked at ~$150 for Aug, down from ~$275 for the same period last year. That's with 1800 sqft, pool, wife who doesn't turn off lights and working from home, PCs, routers, etc.. running all day, all week. I think that's just a(nohter) CA thing.

The media follows the money and does what they're told. The talking heads are allowed to spout what they want, within narrow limits. Look at what the far left and far right report on, mounds of stuff that never shows up on mainstream news.

[Winnow]

• The U.S. screens a higher percentage of women for cervical cancer than any other country in a sample of 15 advanced countries.

• Americans have the highest survival rates for breast, lung, colon or rectal cancer in a sample of 20 advanced countries.

• Compared with Australia, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Great Britain, the U.S. had the third-lowest fatality rate for male heart attack victims ages 40-64, the second-lowest for men ages 85-89 and the best for women aged 85-89.

• Americans 50 and older with heart disease are more likely to receive medication than similarly aged Europeans. Ditto stroke. Ditto high cholesterol.

USA! USA!

[Zaelath]

Woo, third for the 40-64 group.. with by far the most expensive medical care in the world. USA USA!

[Avestan]

High deductable HSA based plans are the way to go (I think we agree here). You keep what you do not spend, so you have incentive to only get tests / procedures that you deem important.

employers can then (optionally) pay towards the high deductable. If you never go to the doctor, you get to keep that contribution.

The cost of the plan is much less than a blanket co-pay based plan because the insurance companies are not out any money unless you hit your annual deductable (usually around $2,000 or $2,500)

[Zaelath]

The thing that bothers me most about US health care pricing, is there should have been a massive anti-trust case years ago regarding the pricing scam they run between the providers and the insurance companies.

If you want to self fund your medical bills, why should you be be paying more (something like twice as much) to hand over cash on delivery when they have to wait months for insurance companies to get around to paying out. I could understand for example if they billed you more if you wanted an invoice and payment terms, but preferential pricing like this is cartel behaviour that I thought was supposed to be illegal in the US...

[Aabidano]

...there should have been a massive anti-trust case years ago regarding the pricing scam they run between the providers and the insurance companies.

...but preferential pricing like this is cartel behavior that I thought was supposed to be illegal in the US...

They've been legally exempt in anti-trust legislation for years. The only exemption as far as I know. It's part of how we've gotten to the place we are. Keeping that exemption in place is costing them literally millions a day in contributions.

Of course you won't see that on the news.

[Gzette]

Today's special election for the Massachusetts senator seat left open when Ted Kennedy died will have a huge impact on what this bill will turn into. Though Mass is overly democratic, polls indicate this is a tight race.

If the Rep. candidate wins, there goes the democrat super majority, paving the way for the GOP to stall and screw with the health care bill for a long time. If the Dem. wins, things will remain on track.

If the Rep. wins, the only way to circumvent any slow downs would be for the House to pass the exact same bill the Senate passed. Not bloody likely.

[Winnow]

Go go republican candidate!

Wow, what's going on with the democrats? The Mass Seat should be a no brainer for the libs. Where's the Obama influence?

[Bubba Grizz]

Back on to the electricity thing. We pay a fixed amount each month and it gets reviewed every 6 months. So I think we were paying $167 a month and at our 6 month review this year we actually had enough of a credit built up that we got a month and a half free. I do have a smaller house (1100sqft) but I do have my computers on all the time. The cooler summers and warmer winters seem to help a lot too. We use less AC in the summer (new central air unit) and less heat in the winter (new furnace) and with our new hot water heater we seem to be doing pretty well comparitively.

Granted our "warmer winters" means that we'll have a nice heat wave (in the 30's) for a few weeks and then back to the bitter cold that normally hits us.

[Aabidano]

Wow, what's going on with the democrats? The Mass Seat should be a no brainer for the libs. Where's the Obama influence?

I'm astounded it's even close, assuming it actually is close and it's not just the press\pollsters assisting in getting a better democratic turnout.

/tinfoilhat on
Unless of course the legislation isn't turning the way business wants it, then DNC failure is best for them
/tinfoilhat off

Obama and Clinton's presence was likely not a positive influence on the undecideds. Obama in particular represents the people's ire right now.

If healthcare is one of his Obamas big issues, he's been amazingly silent on it. Perhaps in the hope that the stink of it's failure won't stick to him quite so tightly.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

bwhahahahahahahahhaa


and so the purge of the socialists begins

[Keverian FireCry]

More like the purge of candidates who hardly campaign for their seats.

Coakley should be ashamed. She was chosen to continue the legacy of one of the most important progressive voices throughout the last 50 years of American politics and squandered the opportunity completely. She and her campaign obviously felt the election was a foregone conclusion, because they had a 30 point lead in December and hardly campaigned as it steadily dropped over the last month of the election. While Brown was campaigning around Christmas time, she was on vacation in the Caribbean, even as it was clear that her lead was dwindling.

Why the hell is it so hard to find Democrats who actually have some fight in them!?

[Leonaerd]

It's better she lost than the healthcare bill passed.

[Winnow]

lol

March on Obama lovers! What has this guy done besides buy his seat in Illinois? (Oh, and the Beer summit!)

Where's Oprah when libs need her the most?

It's unfuckingbelievable that the democrats lost Ted Kennedy's seat. lol



Scott Brown 2012!

[Xatrei]

bwhahahahahahahahhaa


and so the purge of the socialists begins

lol @ socialists. Democrats are about as socialist as you are, idiot. As an actual socialist, I'm sick of ignorant buffoons like you referring to Democrats, one tiny step removed from Republicans, as socialists. Meanwhile, our system remains completely fucked, and the promise of change (to the left or the right) remains just out of reach, dangling from the same stick it always has.

As Kev says, this has less to do with a revolt against Democrats than it has to do with Coakley being a lazy cunt and not actually engaging in a winnable campaign. She took the seat for granted, and it bit her in the ass - deservedly so.

I just wish this joke of a country would hurry up and collapse under the weight of its own apathy and stupidity.

[Gzette]

righties: it is your night to gloat. But let me ask, is the status quo on health care acceptable to you?

[Spang]

Conservatives are sore losers and even sorer winners.

[Zaelath]

bwhahahahahahahahhaa


and so the purge of the socialists begins

lol @ socialists. Democrats are about as socialist as you are, idiot. As an actual socialist, I'm sick of ignorant buffoons like you referring to Democrats, one tiny step removed from Republicans, as socialists. Meanwhile, our system remains completely fucked, and the promise of change (to the left or the right) remains just out of reach, dangling from the same stick it always has.

As Kev says, this has less to do with a revolt against Democrats than it has to do with Coakley being a lazy cunt and not actually engaging in a winnable campaign. She took the seat for granted, and it bit her in the ass - deservedly so.

I just wish this joke of a country would hurry up and collapse under the weight of its own apathy and stupidity.

I tend to sit back and giggle at lower to middle class douche-bags that rail against socialism considering a little of it would be generally beneficial to them compared to the pure capitalist approach that concentrates 95% of the wealth into the top 1% (or thereabouts).

[Winnow]

Blame the candidate if you wish. When I think democrat, I think Massachusetts and the democrats in that state, knowing full well the implications of voting in a republican, jumped ship and did so anyway. That tells you something about the present health care proposal. Even democrats don't like it.

Obama ran on a lame platform yet was able to dupe the libs and some indies and republicans specifically due to their hatred of Bush. Obama blows. Stop making excuses for him. He's 4 wasted years and out. I particularly despise politicians who run on the "Change" campaign theme. It's bogus but people tend to always go for the "grass is greener on the other side" viewpoint...especially the less educated.

I also laugh at people that claim republicans are only good for the wealthiest top 1%. Are you serious?

[Zaelath]

(R) are the party of pure capitalism, which by definition favours the top 1%.

You're probably just confused into thinking the high standard of living of the middle classes in the US is down to good management rather than being gifted with the wealthiest country in the world in natural resources. Meanwhile totally ignoring the fact that the lower classes have a much lower standard of living than in countries with a smattering of socialism.

Feel free to explain your Reganomics for the benefit of the Scientologists in the crowd.

[Sueven]

Big loss for the Democrats, no matter how you spin it and no matter who you blame.

The bottom line is that the Republicans are better at politics than the Democrats are. It's embarrassing.

[Aabidano]

Reaganomics is a decent theory really, unfortunately without regulation it won't happen in a capitalist system. With the regulation required to make it happen it turns into....

This election was a response to all the BS theater in DC right now. To some extent it's a reflection on Coakley, it's a much larger reflection on the campaign of "Change!" that for all appearances was just a sham to get in office.

People are turning to the other side who haven't gotten much farther than "We're not demoncrats!" since 2008. At the current pace that will net them the mid term elections, the won't need a platform or an agenda.

The only change is whose wallet is receiving the shovelfuls of dollars.

[Fairweather Pure]

Fear will always be a bigger motivation than hope or change. It sucks, but the Dems have proven to be thier own worst enemy during the past year, so they are reaping what they've sown.

Dems need to see this as a sign, unite, and make the changes needed ehile they can. They've wasted enough time already being pussies.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Yea....make the changes. Ram them through. Then sit back and watch while the country boots every Democrat out of office just like.....oh wait for it......





just a little more........




oh yea....the Jimmy Carter era. Here is a tidbit from old James....does it sound familiar?

His tenure was a time of continuing inflation and recession, as well as an energy crisis. On January 7, 1980, Carter signed Law H.R. 5860 aka Public Law 96-185 known as The Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979 bailing out Chrysler Corporation.

The Senate was quick to turn over to the GOP. I think last night put the word out that people do not like the far left's policies and realized they voted in someone that will outspend Bush 10-1 if left unchecked.


If you buffoons want a socialist type country, you can move to just about anywhere else on the planet. This country was FOUNDED on the ideals of capitalism and freedom. If you need the socialist agendas, move.


As to whoever questioned if the conservatives think health care is just fine the way it is.....well hell no it is not. Do I think the public should pay for health care for people who do not work by choice? FUCK NO! Let them die. The real fix to this country is to wipe an awful lot of shit out and start over. As far as I am concerned, they can kill every criminal and lazy ass in this country to make a good start. Then they can round up every illegal and send them out and lock the damn country down. Go through the right process and come back. Then they can clean up every corrupt office in the political machine of the country. Get the expenses of our government under control. Reduce the ridiculous size and waste we have right now of the government and put the monies to better use. There are a shit ton of things we COULD do but choose not to. Once someone has power, all they care about is taking their turn raping the people.

[Boogahz]

righties: it is your night to gloat. But let me ask, is the status quo on health care acceptable to you?

It isn't dead because one seat was lost. Democrats still hold the majority. I think I remember that the super-majority which was just held had not been around for over 30 years, and plenty of things were passed in that time.

[miir]

I think last night put the word out that people do not like the far left's policies

You're a fucking moron if you think the Democrats are the 'far left'.
They are way more right than even the Canadian Conservative party.

The American political spectrum barely touches the left.

[Animalor]

Whoever said that socialism and freedom were mutually exclusive. There are many countries in europe there majority have a much higher standard of living that anywhere else on the planet and enjoy every freedom (and probably even moreso) than what is enjoyed in the US.

[Winnow]

Lack of confidence in Obama's ability to get anything accomplished during his term is causing the stock market to fall today.

[Gzette]

righties: it is your night to gloat. But let me ask, is the status quo on health care acceptable to you?

It isn't dead because one seat was lost. Democrats still hold the majority. I think I remember that the super-majority which was just held had not been around for over 30 years, and plenty of things were passed in that time.

I don't doubt that. And I don't think it's dead. But I'm still waiting for an answer. Winnow and the rest keep spouting the "change" thing was a gimmick, and little change has happened. Meanwhile I see no one saying that health care reform does not need to happen, and I see no one else posing any other solutions. That is bullshit.

Then they forget that Dems are trying to push through a BIG GIANT health care bill, which would incorporate a shit load of fundamental changes and also one of Obama's campaign promises. This has been a bad fight for the Dems, but at least it is happening. If it is an effective bill, I'm willing to trade majorities in the Senate and House for it. That's a big If.

This is a lose-lose for the Dems on a politics side. Get health care through quick, they'll be crucified. Get it through slow, they'll be chastised as ineffective. Don't do it at all and they're called do-nothings, which you would think would please sane republicans and TEA PARTY R-tards protesting non-existent tax hikes.

[Boogahz]

What I see as a bigger problem is that House Dems don't want to pass the Senate Dem's bill.

[Aabidano]

I think it's a question of will it cost them the house and senate?, or will it cost them the house, senate and (later) the presidency?

I don't argue at all against the thought that our health care system is in serious trouble. I do have serious doubts if what ends up passing will be a fix, or will it just perpetuate our current problems.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

protesting non-existent tax hikes.

How do you think they are going to pay for that bloated piece of crap?

Lets face it...everyone in this country knows health care needs work. A LOT of work. Ramming in all kinds of retarded bullshit and force feeding a bill down the people's throat is not how you need to get it done. The insurance companies are going to make their money regardless of what gets passed. So they raise rates and further create messes to make their money.....that would be just awesome.

First of all, the mandating of a person buying insurance is not constitutional. Only the states have that power. Yea, I know Obama thinks he should be able to change the Consitution to fit his will, but since we do not really need a second civil war, he needs to shut the fuck up and work within the system. Second, we have had one major health care "advance" in the last 50 years that was run by the government. Does anyone think that is working out in a stellar manner?

Another point of contention is that of taxing the best health plans. Those are offered by companies as a part of their compensation packages to attract the best employees. All this stupid assed plan they have will do is eliminate high end health care. Wow...part of the "fix" for health care is eliminating good packages for it. Smart move there.

There are an absolute shit ton of options they need to explore before they throw yet another massive taxpayer funded mess out there and rush it through just to say they did it. This is not the type of thing you can run through all the options on and weigh out their impact in a span of months. If they DO decide to go that route, the people are going to run all of them out of office and it will be GOP across the board in 2012...and quite frankly that is not what we need either.

[Aabidano]

...insurance companies are going to make their money regardless of what gets passed. So they raise rates and further create messes to make their money...

What everyone seems to miss is that the concept of insurance itself is broken in this context. If they want something to take care of the day to day health care needs of the masses, why do we need a non-contributing third party dipping their fingers into it?

Insurance - A means of indemnity against a future occurrence of an uncertain event.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/insurance

[Boogahz]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100121/ap_ ... e_overhaul

WASHINGTON – Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she lacks the votes to quickly move the Senate's sweeping health overhaul bill through the House, a potentially devastating blow to President Barack Obama's signature issue.

Pelosi, D-Calif., made the comment to reporters after House Democrats held a closed-door meeting at which participants vented frustration with the Senate's massive version of the legislation.

Her concession meant there was little hope for a White House-backed plan to quickly push the Senate-approved health bill through the House, followed by a separate measure making changes sought by House members, such as easing the Senate's tax on higher-cost health plans. Such an approach would be "problematic," she said.

"In its present form without any changes I don't think it's possible to pass the Senate bill in the House," Pelosi said, adding, "I don't see the votes for it at this time."

Pelosi's remarks signaled that advancing health legislation through Congress will likely be a lengthy process — despite Democrats' desire for a quick election-year pivot to address jobs and the economy, which polls show are the public's top concern.

"We're not in a big rush," Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."