Unenforceable nonsense or slippery slope for probable cause?

[Zaelath]

How did you hear your phone ring or was it on vibrate?

It was on vibrate.

I wouldn't say there's no use for SMS, what I don't get, and your example doesn't cover, is these kids that text back and forth a dozen times over a half hour period, when they could have just talked for 2 mins and covered the same ground. And here, they would have spent less money on the call than the SMS... freaks.

[masteen]

Most providers offer unlimited texting for like $10/month, much cheaper than unlimited talk time.

[Aslanna]

http://www.cmu.edu/news/archive/2008/Ma ... ning.shtml

Carnegie Mellon Study Shows Just Listening
To Cell Phones Significantly Impairs Drivers

Brain Imaging Reveals Drivers Are Distracted Even if They Don't Talk

PITTSBURGH — Carnegie Mellon University scientists have shown that just listening to a cell phone while driving is a significant distraction, and it causes drivers to commit some of the same types of driving errors that can occur under the influence of alcohol.

The use of cell phones, including dialing and texting, has long been a safety concern for drivers. But the Carnegie Mellon study, for the first time, used brain imaging to document that listening alone reduces by 37 percent the amount of brain activity associated with driving. This can cause drivers to weave out of their lane, based on the performance of subjects using a driving simulator.

The findings, to be reported in an upcoming issue of the journal Brain Research, show that making cell phones hands-free or voice-activated is not sufficient in eliminating distractions to drivers. "Drivers need to keep not only their hands on the wheel; they also have to keep their brains on the road," said neuroscientist Marcel Just, director of the Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging.

Other distractions, such as eating, listening to the radio or talking with a passenger, also can divert a driver. Though it is not known how these activities compare to cell phone use, Just said there are reasons to believe cell phones may be especially distracting. "Talking on a cell phone has a special social demand, such that not attending to the cell conversation can be interpreted as rude, insulting behavior," he noted. A passenger, by contrast, is likely to recognize increased demands on the driver's attention and stop talking.

The 29 study volunteers used a driving simulator while inside an MRI brain scanner. They steered a car along a virtual winding road at a fixed, challenging speed, either while they were undisturbed, or while they were deciding whether a sentence they heard was true or false. Just's team used state-of-the-art functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) methods to measure activity in 20,000 brain locations, each about the size of a peppercorn. Measurements were made every second.

The driving-while-listening condition produced a 37 percent decrease in activity of the brain's parietal lobe, which is associated with driving. This portion of the brain integrates sensory information and is critical for spatial sense and navigation. Activity was also reduced in the occipital lobe, which processes visual information.

The other impact of driving-while-listening was a significant deterioration in the quality of driving. Subjects who were listening committed more lane maintenance errors, such as hitting a simulated guardrail, and deviating from the middle of the lane. Both kinds of influences decrease the brain's capacity to drive well, and that decrease can be costly when the margin for error is small.

"The clear implication is that engaging in a demanding conversation could jeopardize judgment and reaction time if an atypical or unusual driving situation arose," Just said. "Heavy traffic is no place for an involved personal or business discussion, let alone texting."

Because driving and listening draw on two different brain networks, scientists had previously suspected that the networks could work independently on each task. But Just said this study demonstrates that there is only so much that the brain can do at one time, no matter how different the two tasks are.

The study emerges from the new field of neuroergonomics, which combines brain science with human-computer interaction studies that measure how well a technology matches human capabilities. Neuroergonomics is beginning to be applied to the operation of vehicles like aircraft, ships and cars in which drivers now have navigation systems, iPods and even DVD players at their disposal. Every additional input to a driver consumes some of his or her brain capacity, taking away some of the resources that monitor for other vehicles, lane markers, obstacles, and sudden changes in conditions.

"Drivers' seats in many vehicles are becoming highly instrumented cockpits," Just said, "and during difficult driving situations, they require the undivided attention of the driver's brain."

The project was funded by the Office of Naval Research. Other members of the research team included post-doctoral research associate Timothy Keller and research assistant Jacquelyn Cynkar. For information on the Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging, or to download a copy of this research paper, visit http://www.ccbi.cmu.edu

It's fun to bold!

Anyway. enjoy hitting a guardrail and bursting into flames while you selfishlessly talk on your phone or are busy texting. Just try not to take anyone else out when you go.

[Noysyrump]

Jesus necro post batman.

Good job "asslana"

havent had such a good laugh in a while, that canalek post is my sentiments exactly!

Too often I see someone doing something really stupid on the road only to notice a fukin phone in their ear.

[Aslanna]

Jesus necro post batman.

Well I had seen the article and had remembered this old thread. Unlike others who would simply start a new one I try posting in related and existing threads!

I remember stuff. It's a curse.

[masteen]

I don't ride with my dad anymore. He was up visiting the other week, his cell phone rang, and he almost wrecked the car trying to get it out of his pocket and answer it. On I-95, doing 80.

My mom is retarded about the phone too. I was driving us to the mall on US1 (6 lanes each way) and my sister called. She asked my no less than 4 times "Are you gonna answer that? It might be important." Yeah, mom? More important than not clipping a semi at 60 mph?

[Fash]

Wow, you must be a really clumsy and uncoordinated dude... Maybe it's a genetic retardation.

By the logic in that article, passengers are extremely dangerous!

[Aslanna]

By the logic in that article, passengers are extremely dangerous!

That isn't the logic of it at all. Perhaps you should try reading it again. It says passengers are distrations, and I don't see how you can argue they aren't, but they are saying talking on the phone is more dangerous a distraction. I even bolded the relevant parts because I figured someone would pull that out.

Other distractions, such as eating, listening to the radio or talking with a passenger, also can divert a driver. Though it is not known how these activities compare to cell phone use, Just said there are reasons to believe cell phones may be especially distracting. "Talking on a cell phone has a special social demand, such that not attending to the cell conversation can be interpreted as rude, insulting behavior," he noted. A passenger, by contrast, is likely to recognize increased demands on the driver's attention and stop talking.

[Spang]

When driving an automobile, nothing is more important than paying attention to the road. Accidents happen when people pay more attention to other shit.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

When driving an automobile, nothing is more important than paying attention to the road. Accidents happen when people pay more attention to other shit.

Accidents also happen because people are shitty drivers. Take away all distractions and you will still have a fuckton of accidents. Not all people are of equal driving ability. Not every one has the same abilities when it comes to eye-hand coordination. Not everyone pays attention in the same way.

[Spang]

What's your point?

[Noysyrump]

What makes people shitty drivers is a lack of ability to pay attention.

I am a great driver. I can get a car into a slide get it around the corner and straighten it out without knocking down a single cone.

I've had 3 accidents in my life. Once I fell asleep. Once I was looking at some bad ass new honda pulling out of the dealership. And the last, I was watching someone else wave me on instead of looking for myself.

And one day, I had my cheap-slut-ex-wife in the car, Cars started coliding in front of me, I gunned it, swerved hard right, straightened it out, accelerated passed a car that swerved into the lane I was just in, and cruised out untouched of a 3-4 car pile up. Because I was paying attention. My wife just gawked at me in amazment.

[MooZilla]

I agree with Mid. They are taking away our right to drive recklessly. How dare they try to protect people on the road.

No dude. They are saying that you cannot handle doing two things at the same time. Many people can though. Only a very small, tiny percentage of retards cannot do two things at the same time. They are doing this because it is something they think they can get through and it will make them look like they have accomplished something. If they truly cared about driving safety they would ban all drive through windows, smoking while driving, and talking to passengers while driving.

If you can't drive while your eyes are off the road and both of your hands are on your phone, you're retarded. I do agree.

[Hesten]

I just saw this, and remembered this thread....i would urge the "i want my rights to text while driving" crowd to try this:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009 ... -game.html

My results were 0.48 seconds slower while texting, and missed 12% more gates while texting....and didnt see the grey lady.

[Aslanna]

I just saw this, and remembered this thread....i would urge the "i want my rights to text while driving" crowd to try this:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009 ... -game.html

My results were 0.48 seconds slower while texting, and missed 12% more gates while texting....and didnt see the grey lady.

I'd rather urge the "i want my rights to text while driving" crowd to jump off a bridge and make the roads safer for the rest of us.

[Fash]

Whatever you think about the issue (I aced that stupid stupid stupid Flash test) it's still unenforceable nonsense and a loosening of the requirements for probable cause. There are a billion things that can distract a driver, you cannot legislate them all.

Is this you, Aslanna? I can't help but think that your forcefulness on this issue is hypocritical.

[Aslanna]

Please point out where I am being a hypocrite. Thanks!


(Here's a hint: Unlike the person in that picture I don't own a cellphone.)

[Aabidano]

...loosening of the requirements for probable cause. There are a billion things that can distract a driver, you cannot legislate them all.

For those states where it's illegal, talking on a cellphone is no more debatable than a cop behind you pulling you over for going 5 over the limit.

There are lots of things that can distract a driver, reading a book, watching a movie, etc..., you shouldn't be doing those either while your driving.

I'd love to see talking on a cell while driving penalties put right up there with DUI. For most people jabbering on a phone is far more incapacitating that having a .1% BAC.

I don't know what those people have to talk about 24x7. Will they explode if they just shut the hell up for a few minutes?

[Hesten]

...loosening of the requirements for probable cause. There are a billion things that can distract a driver, you cannot legislate them all.

For those states where it's illegal, talking on a cellphone is no more debatable than a cop behind you pulling you over for going 5 over the limit.

There are lots of things that can distract a driver, reading a book, watching a movie, etc..., you shouldn't be doing those either while your driving.

I'd love to see talking on a cell while driving penalties put right up there with DUI. For most people jabbering on a phone is far more incapacitating that having a .1% BAC.

I don't know what those people have to talk about 24x7. Will they explode if they just shut the hell up for a few minutes?

In Denmark, some traffic law breakings give you a tag on your drivers license, get 3 and you loose it...one of them being texting on a cell phone while driving or speaking in a cell phone not on a hand free set....and considering we had two cases the last year where pedestrians managed to text while walking and walk right out in traffic, im a big fan of banning all texting in cars, on bikes, or walking on the street.

[miir]

A few months ago, just down the street, a woman was killed when she walked into an intersection right into the side of a truck while she was texting.


edit: fixed

[Funkmasterr]

A few months ago, just down the street, a woman was killed when she walked right into and intersection right into the side of a truck while she was texting.

Someone care to translate this, it must be Canadian

[Fash]

So was the cellphone the cause, or was it her complete and total idiocy?

No matter what I'm doing, I'm not going to walk into traffic, because I'm not an idiot. You can't protect everyone.

I realize the goal, with banning texting & driving, is to minimize their damage to others... noble, indeed, but will it really make a difference?

[miir]

So was the cellphone the cause, or was it her complete and total idiocy?

Heh, both.

[Funkmasterr]

So was the cellphone the cause, or was it her complete and total idiocy?

Heh, both.

Yeah pretty much.. Kinda hard to feel bad for the lady.

[Gzette]

no cell phones in school zones now in TX. just came into affect today. School zones are spans of road IDd for being very near to a school, or a high pedestrian traffic area for the kiddies. During set times of the day speed limit is lowered to typically 20 mph. Now no cell phone usage will be tolerated in those zones. Just yesterday, while talking with a crossing guard, I saw a guy coast right past us, while he was holding up a red stop sign to let kids cross. Of course he was on a cell phone.

also everyone must now buckle up, no matter if they are in the back seat or front.

still no helmet law cuz that'd be taking our freedomz!

[Winnow]

Texting is bad enough but try using the little browser on the iPhone while driving in rush hour traffic to log into an account and complete a funds transfer. Making trades on iPhone app while driving in morning is also bad news.

If anything, micro browser use should be outlawed before general texting.

[Zaelath]

Texting is bad enough but try using the little browser on the iPhone while driving in rush hour traffic to log into an account and complete a funds transfer. Making trades on iPhone app while driving in morning is also bad news.

If anything, micro browser use should be outlawed before general texting.

Just make it a blanket ban on being an inconsiderate cunt while driving. That would give the cops PC to search 90% of vehicles in Minnesota!

[Aabidano]

You must've been in Minneapolis

[Funkmasterr]

Texting is bad enough but try using the little browser on the iPhone while driving in rush hour traffic to log into an account and complete a funds transfer. Making trades on iPhone app while driving in morning is also bad news.

If anything, micro browser use should be outlawed before general texting.

Just make it a blanket ban on being an inconsiderate cunt while driving. That would give the cops PC to search 90% of vehicles in Minnesota!

1)Haha
2)With recent changes in laws the cops don't even really need PC anymore (in MN).
3)There are a lot of states in this country with worse drivers, but you're right, there are a lot of moron fucking drivers here.

[vn_Tanc]

In the UK if you're seen even touching a phone that isn't secured in a hands-free setup you can be fined up to £1000 ($1,624.70).

People still drive like morons of course but at least their eyes are on the road, supposedly.

[Soreali]

3)There are a lot of states in this country with worse drivers, but you're right, there are a lot of moron fucking drivers here.

Welcome to New Jersey....

[Aslanna]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-1 ... -ntsb.html
(please click link so they get advertising and stuff!)

Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board recommended a ban on driver use of portable electronic devices like mobile phones and smartphones, including hands-free use, citing crashes caused by distracted drivers.

“Too many people are texting, talking and driving at the same time,” NTSB Chairman Deborah Hersman said at a hearing in Washington today. “It’s time to put a stop to distraction. No call, no text, no update is worth a human life.”

Systems built into cars, like General Motors Co.’s OnStar, and global positioning systems wouldn’t be affected by the ban, said Kelly Nantel, an NTSB spokeswoman. The NTSB recommends safety improvements for U.S. agencies to act upon; it cannot implement them itself. Donald Karol, the NTSB’s director of highway safety, said the agency had been recommending collision warning systems since the mid 1990s.

The board strengthened its anti-phone stance after completing its investigation into an August 2010 crash in Gray Summit, Missouri, in which a 19-year-old GMC Sierra pickup driver sent or received 11 text messages in 13 minutes before plowing into the back of a tractor-trailer. Two school buses collided with the stopped trucks. The pickup driver and one bus passenger perished in the crash. The truck driver and 37 other people were injured.

Safety regulators have been debating how much to regulate drivers’ cell-phone use for the past decade. U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says he believes motorists are distracted by any use of mobile phones while driving, including hands-free calls.

LaHood, whose campaign against texting and talking on the phone while driving has led to restrictions in 30 states, says his concerns extend to vehicle information and entertainment systems such as OnStar or Ford Motor Co.’s Sync.

Missouri law prohibits texting while driving by people under the age of 21.

Truck, Bus Drivers

Fatal accidents caused by distracted operators has increased in all modes of transportation, Hersman said. That includes planes, trains, boats, trucks, buses and private cars and trucks, she said.

The use of phones and e-mail by operators is so prevalent that securing call records and the devices themselves is one of the first steps investigators now take after accidents, she said.

The NTSB’s recommendation would have to be adopted separately by each state, since states have authority to regulate driver behavior. States should adopt electronic device bans, then back up the laws with aggressive enforcement in the same way they have with drunk driving and seat-belt use, Hersman said.

The NTSB called for a total ban on mobile phones for truck and bus drivers in September, when Hersman said distracted driving was “increasingly prevalent, exacerbating the danger we encounter daily on our roadways.”

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, which regulates trucking and bus companies, banned hand-held cell phones for drivers operating commercial vehicles last month. It banned texting for commercial drivers in January 2010.

Nearly 5 years since this thread first started... The US hasn't mde much progress in this area. Hopefully we're getting closer to having something all states will standardize on. But I doubt it.