Does Palin win the VP debate if...

[Tyek]

Hey Xatrei, I am going to be in Leeds for training on Nov. 5-7. Anything exciting to do at night besides the crack house across the street from our factory?

[Xatrei]

EDIT: Xatrei has admitted himself that his views are far left, probably even quite a bit further left than a lot of the lefties here. Taking that into consideration, logic would lead you to believe that very few people here (and probably in this country in general) are going to agree with him on many things. For this reason I find it hilarious that he continues to resort immediately to insulting people because they don't share his (again, self admitted) extreme views.

I don't insult people because they don't share my views. As you said, few people do. I insult you and your fellow retards for your crazy views. I totally understand that most people are somewhere to the right of me on the political continuum. I respect their views, to a point. However, some of you cross over into an area beyond respectability. As an example, I can disagree with Tyek (and I do - I'll post a response to his last two posts when I get back from lunch), but I see no need to be anything but respectful of his opinions and cordial in my responses to him, while I have no hesitation treating you, fash and others like the pieces of shit you are. Take a few minutes and think about why that might be.

[Funkmasterr]

EDIT: Xatrei has admitted himself that his views are far left, probably even quite a bit further left than a lot of the lefties here. Taking that into consideration, logic would lead you to believe that very few people here (and probably in this country in general) are going to agree with him on many things. For this reason I find it hilarious that he continues to resort immediately to insulting people because they don't share his (again, self admitted) extreme views.

I don't insult people because they don't share my views. As you said, few people do. I insult you and your fellow retards for your crazy views. I totally understand that most people are somewhere to the right of me on the political continuum. I respect their views, to a point. However, some of you cross over into an area beyond respectability. As an example, I can disagree with Tyek (and I do - I'll post a response to his last two posts when I get back from lunch), but I see no need to be anything but respectful of his opinions and cordial in my responses to him, while I have no hesitation treating you, fash and others like the pieces of shit you are. Take a few minutes and think about why that might be.

Because you are the intolerant one? Because you are such an elitist that you think you are smarter and better than the probably 40-50% of this country that probably lands a lot closer to my views than yours.

I don't know that you people will ever understand how truly ironic and hilarious it is that you think you have any right or reason to be condescending to me in any way.

[miir]

I want the government to stay out of my business and personal affairs as much as possible. I want none of my money going to people looking for government handouts because they have not/do not want to put forth the effort to also be successful and independent. I do not want corporations heavily regulated and/or subsidized by the government. I do not want health care and medicine to be controlled by the government, for a number of reasons.

That attitude has just cost American taxpayers over 700 billion dollars.




American health care is a fucking joke compared to other first world countries.
Healthcare should be an essential service like police/fire protection or education.
Could you imagine if the police were required to see proof of insurance before they would charge the scumbag who broke into your house, stole your shit and beat the crap out of your girlfriend? What if the fire department stood by and watched your house burn down because you didn't purchase fire department insurance?

Seems pretty fucking ridiculous that people are being denied potentially life saving procedures because their insurance company refuses to cover it... and I won't even mention the people who dont have or can't afford health insurance.

[Truant]

EDIT: Xatrei has admitted himself that his views are far left, probably even quite a bit further left than a lot of the lefties here. Taking that into consideration, logic would lead you to believe that very few people here (and probably in this country in general) are going to agree with him on many things. For this reason I find it hilarious that he continues to resort immediately to insulting people because they don't share his (again, self admitted) extreme views.

I don't insult people because they don't share my views. As you said, few people do. I insult you and your fellow retards for your crazy views. I totally understand that most people are somewhere to the right of me on the political continuum. I respect their views, to a point. However, some of you cross over into an area beyond respectability. As an example, I can disagree with Tyek (and I do - I'll post a response to his last two posts when I get back from lunch), but I see no need to be anything but respectful of his opinions and cordial in my responses to him, while I have no hesitation treating you, fash and others like the pieces of shit you are. Take a few minutes and think about why that might be.

Because you are the intolerant one? Because you are such an elitist that you think you are smarter and better than the probably 40-50% of this country that probably lands a lot closer to my views than yours.

I don't know that you people will ever understand how truly ironic and hilarious it is that you think you have any right or reason to be condescending to me in any way.

OH SWEET IRONY!

This from the guy who has said multiple times that he is smarter and better than every single person on this board. Lol Elitist.

[Funkmasterr]

EDIT: Xatrei has admitted himself that his views are far left, probably even quite a bit further left than a lot of the lefties here. Taking that into consideration, logic would lead you to believe that very few people here (and probably in this country in general) are going to agree with him on many things. For this reason I find it hilarious that he continues to resort immediately to insulting people because they don't share his (again, self admitted) extreme views.

I don't insult people because they don't share my views. As you said, few people do. I insult you and your fellow retards for your crazy views. I totally understand that most people are somewhere to the right of me on the political continuum. I respect their views, to a point. However, some of you cross over into an area beyond respectability. As an example, I can disagree with Tyek (and I do - I'll post a response to his last two posts when I get back from lunch), but I see no need to be anything but respectful of his opinions and cordial in my responses to him, while I have no hesitation treating you, fash and others like the pieces of shit you are. Take a few minutes and think about why that might be.

Because you are the intolerant one? Because you are such an elitist that you think you are smarter and better than the probably 40-50% of this country that probably lands a lot closer to my views than yours.

I don't know that you people will ever understand how truly ironic and hilarious it is that you think you have any right or reason to be condescending to me in any way.

OH SWEET IRONY!

This from the guy who has said multiple times that he is smarter and better than every single person on this board. Lol Elitist.

What I've said about the people here when I'm pissed off in no way negates the valid point I made. However, I will say that many of you here think you are far better and smarter than you are. I've noticed the elitist attitude displayed so prominently by xatrei and here on VV in general seems to be a pretty common characteristic of liberal people.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

In other words, you're a communist. Thank fucking god that none of the major parties cater to you.

Obama is your man, though... He's a real dark shade of pink.

You do realize that of communism and socialism, one is a subset of the other, and the two are not synonymous, right? Oh, who am I kidding, of course you don't. I'll concede that traditional communist ideology and my own political ideals share some common ground, especially given my acceptance of many Marxist ideas, but I do not consider myself a communist by any stretch of the imagination, especially not the sort of totalitarian regimes you're lumping me in with. You, I suspect, draw little distinction between Soviet communism and any other variation of socialist thinking, or even the faintest hint of such as in the case of the right-of-center Democratic Party because you're entirely too stupid and uninformed to recognize that it's not all just "good ol' red-blooded 'mericans" vs. the commies.

If you think even for a second that Obama's political and economic ideology is anywhere close to my own, you're a bigger delusional retard than I previously imagined, which is no small feat.

Communism and Socialsm are GREAT concepts. The problem is, especially here in the US, is that people like you believe we should work to support the lazy. The entire point of a society is that everyone performs a role and that you can then shoulder the burden of those truly incapable of helping themselves.....and I would be 100% behind that IF we completely eliminated those that refuse to carry their share and the criminals. The problem is that you cannot eliminate them with the rest of your viewpoints because you and your ilk refuse to accept the line of "personal responsibility"...which is also why a Dem controlled Congress not only just dropped $700 billion dollars on a bailout, but ALSO dropped in another $120 billion or so in pork spending with it.

[laneela]

It's a chicken and the egg thing here in that you believe that personal responsibility and a decrease in crime should come before help and I (we?) believe that personal responsibility and a decrease in crime will come "because" of. I believe that if we educate children, like truly "educate" them, make higher education affordable so that more people can get professional jobs, have a socialized medicine system where parents can get their kids treated without breaking the bank, etc then people will become happier, ie less likely to be these types of people you despise.

We all want the same outcome - we all just agree with different methods of getting there.

[Winnow]

Linux and communism. It makes total sense now!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

It's a chicken and the egg thing here in that you believe that personal responsibility and a decrease in crime should come before help and I (we?) believe that personal responsibility and a decrease in crime will come "because" of. I believe that if we educate children, like truly "educate" them, make higher education affordable so that more people can get professional jobs, have a socialized medicine system where parents can get their kids treated without breaking the bank, etc then people will become happier, ie less likely to be these types of people you despise.

We all want the same outcome - we all just agree with different methods of getting there.

How exactly do you propose that happening when the culture in the inner cities is one that actually frowns upon actually being educated? You can't force the unwilling to educate themselves no matter how good the schools are.

[Funkmasterr]

I'm perfectly ok with some lazy welfare fuck in New Orleans sitting in the projects on their nuts and getting the same thing I do for working my ass off, as long as along with that, people like myself that actually work hard for a living get the right to hunt people like that down and shuffle them from the mortal coil.

[Funkmasterr]

It's a chicken and the egg thing here in that you believe that personal responsibility and a decrease in crime should come before help and I (we?) believe that personal responsibility and a decrease in crime will come "because" of. I believe that if we educate children, like truly "educate" them, make higher education affordable so that more people can get professional jobs, have a socialized medicine system where parents can get their kids treated without breaking the bank, etc then people will become happier, ie less likely to be these types of people you despise.

We all want the same outcome - we all just agree with different methods of getting there.

I went to one of the best (probably still one of the best 2 or 3 High Schools in the state), around 10th grade they started shipping people from the pj's to our school. Most of them ended up in the "alternative" program fairly quick because they couldn't get their shit together, and most of them spent more time fighting than being in class.

That's a delusional idealistic way to look at things. Some people are just lazy good for nothing fucks, and always will be no matter what.

[Traz-KOE]

I can't quite put my finger on it, but this suddenly springs to mind.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I work with a guy that came here from Africa and we were talking about all of this one day. He cannot believe the attitudes of the people here especially regarding education. Everyone there in his village wanted education and everyone applies to go to the university. He also went into a rant about how if someone was a lazy bum that no one would help them and they would just be dead. Criminals are also treated like....criminals...and he said you do NOT want to be one of the people caught stealing or commiting crimes there or the odds are the citizens would just eliminate you.

[Funkmasterr]

I work with a guy that came here from Africa and we were talking about all of this one day. He cannot believe the attitudes of the people here especially regarding education. Everyone there in his village wanted education and everyone applies to go to the university. He also went into a rant about how if someone was a lazy bum that no one would help them and they would just be dead. Criminals are also treated like....criminals...and he said you do NOT want to be one of the people caught stealing or commiting crimes there or the odds are the citizens would just eliminate you.

All that is completely logical, but it's also irrelevant. Why, you ask? Because all the hardships the black man faces are the white man's fault, so it's our fault that they are the way they are.

[laneela]

In response to both Kil and Funk - I'm going to guess you haven't had the same kind of first hand experience I have had and a few people on here can confirm that what I'm saying is true:

(sound the violins!)
I've been a part of an early childhood center in a very low income neighborhood of Miami for the majority of my life. I've seen first hand what kind of effect caring teachers and good and affordable education can have. True enough, there are kids that grow up to be criminals regardless but every fucking year, we have high school seniors that came to the school as kindergartners coming to do their community service hours so that they can graduate. A lot of them are going on to college, some aren't. Some end up being huge fuck-ups. I can guarentee that no one near as many of them turn out the latter as there would've been had they not come to the school and been taught healthy ways to socialize, good study habits and most importantly that even when people around them (and mostly their own families) start acting like assholes, there are people who respect and believe in them.

It may sound fucking corny but it's true. You'd be amazed how much people are capable of when you give them a chance.

[Sylvus]

That's a cute story and all, laneela, but we've already seen firsthand that busing them in from the pj's to Funk's school didn't work for those good for nothing lazy fucks. That's all the proof I need. Cut education, and let's spend more on bailing out Wall Street and on the war in Iraq.

Either that, or give the money to those animals in New Orleans just as long as Funk (who, incidentally, works his ass off for his money) can hunt them and "shuffle them from the mortal coil".

Shakespearean oratory convinces me every time, particularly when employed so proficiently.

[Funkmasterr]

In response to both Kil and Funk - I'm going to guess you haven't had the same kind of first hand experience I have had and a few people on here can confirm that what I'm saying is true:

(sound the violins!)
I've been a part of an early childhood center in a very low income neighborhood of Miami for the majority of my life. I've seen first hand what kind of effect caring teachers and good and affordable education can have. True enough, there are kids that grow up to be criminals regardless but every fucking year, we have high school seniors that came to the school as kindergartners coming to do their community service hours so that they can graduate. A lot of them are going on to college, some aren't. Some end up being huge fuck-ups. I can guarentee that no one near as many of them turn out the latter as there would've been had they not come to the school and been taught healthy ways to socialize, good study habits and most importantly that even when people around them (and mostly their own families) start acting like assholes, there are people who respect and believe in them.

It may sound fucking corny but it's true. You'd be amazed how much people are capable of when you give them a chance.

What you're essentially suggesting though, is that the rest of the country foots the bill to do this and hope that it works because their parents are too lazy and worthless to do it themselves. I just have a serious fundamental issue with that, and always will.

I'm not going to argue that it could help, but I'd be interested in whether the results overall if this was done on a massive scale would be as good as you seem to think they would be. I have plenty of friends that grew up in the projects, and it seems that the only time they get away from the lifestyle is if they actually physically get away. As soon as they go back it's business as usual.

So how do you take care of that part of the equation? Are we all supposed to pay even more money in taxes to turn all the bad neighborhoods in to nice places?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

And all the schools would be like that if you removed the troublemakers from the equation.

[Funkmasterr]

That's a cute story and all, laneela, but we've already seen firsthand that busing them in from the pj's to Funk's school didn't work for those good for nothing lazy fucks. That's all the proof I need. Cut education, and let's spend more on bailing out Wall Street and on the war in Iraq.

Either that, or give the money to those animals in New Orleans just as long as Funk (who, incidentally, works his ass off for his money) can hunt them and "shuffle them from the mortal coil".

Shakespearean oratory convinces me every time, particularly when employed so proficiently.

You being a sarcastic douchebag instead of directly addressing me and what I said aside, what I'm talking about that happened at my school (and is still happening there, with the same results, fyi) has been repeated in other schools in other cities and other states.

So the suggestion I'm hearing is that it's too late at that age and we need to start focusing on the youth to weed as much of this out as possible in the next generation?

My reasons for this leaving a sour taste in my mouth still remain, and you still haven't made any valid point.

EDIT: Also, me citing what happened with the shit at my school is a perfectly valid piece of sample data to bring up in this conversation, and the continued denial that my personal experience is valid by you and others here is fucking retarded. When you have something to use as an example yourself, then talk to me.

[Aslanna]

and you still haven't made any valid point.

Welcome to the past 6 years of your posting history.

[Funkmasterr]

Can you show me more than 2 posts in the past 2 years that you made that are more than a stupid one liner that add nothing at all to the topic at hand? I bet you can't.

You are arguably the most worthless poster here, you should have been banned a long time ago.

Keep tossing those one liners though, you keep proving me right further and further while in your own little delusional world you think you're being cute, funny, witty, or something, I'm not sure, but I assure you that you're none of those things.

Again, thanks for your opinion, I value it highly! Have a great day!

[miir]

Also, me citing what happened with the shit at my school is a perfectly valid piece of sample data to bring up in this conversation

Like your perfectly valid piece of sample data that showed the US economy was doing just fine?



I'm sure you can understand why we're a bit skeptical of your sample data.

[laneela]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, Funk. *My* hard earned cash is getting taxed regardless. I rather see it go towards improving schools and healthcare which every single person in the entire world (nevermind this country) can benefit from. I don't mind paying in taxes in my lifetime less than what I'd end up paying for decent education and healthcare for my family and have that money be put to use in a manner that will pay for my child's and my neighbour's child education and healthcare. For proof that it can and has worked, you need look no further than our neighbors up north or accross the Atlantic. I don't know what the issue is. My dollar gets taxed, same as yours. My priorities are education, healthcare, the elderly... Yours may be the right to bare arms and the "war on terror". We've done it your way for the last 8 years and it got us nowhere good and it got us there fast.

[Sylvus]

You being a sarcastic douchebag instead of directly addressing me and what I said aside, what I'm talking about that happened at my school (and is still happening there, with the same results, fyi) has been repeated in other schools in other cities and other states.

So the suggestion I'm hearing is that it's too late at that age and we need to start focusing on the youth to weed as much of this out as possible in the next generation?

My reasons for this leaving a sour taste in my mouth still remain, and you still haven't made any valid point.

Why would I bother to address your points when you consistently act like nothing more than a loudmouthed child? You don't ever provide any actual statistics, nor do you bother to read anything pointed out to you from the other side. All of your misguided opinions are stated as if they are facts, you often post crazily exaggerated anecdotes and try to play the hyperbole off as fact, and you repeatedly state that people who are not like you or do not share your opinions should be killed, assaulted or battered in some way.

So, depending on the day and how far off the deep end you appear that day, sometimes I will engage you in what will always amount to a fruitless debate, and other times I'll just mock you because it provides entertainment for me (and others, I assure you). Today I'm feeling kind of frisky, so I decided to go with the latter.

EDIT: Also, me citing what happened with the shit at my school is a perfectly valid piece of sample data to bring up in this conversation, and the continued denial that my personal experience is valid by you and others here is fucking retarded. When you have something to use as an example yourself, then talk to me.

Perfectly valid, huh?

What metric do you use to judge your high school as one of the 2 or 3 best in the state?
How many "lazy good for nothing fucks" were bused into your school? "Most" of them ended up in the "alternative" program fairly quickly? "Most" of them spent more time fighting than being in class? Really?
You're "working your ass off" while being one of the most prolific posters we've had here in the last few years? Really?
The economy is doing great because none of your friends are having any trouble finding tech jobs in Minnesota. Really?
You've seen more people shot or stabbed than you can even think of. Really?

Your bullshit "sample data" is not valid. It never has been, it never will be. It's exaggerated anecdotal bullshit. Sure, maybe one of the kids they bused in was fighting all the time. Maybe 20 were. Maybe every one of them was, but it's still too small a sample size and so tainted by your constant over-exaggeration and invective that it is meaningless.

I'll take published reports from across the country over your nonsense every day.

[Tyek]

Funk, you do tend to come off as overly aggressive, spit first ask questions later. Hard to take someone seriously who proudly boosts he spits on people, wants to kick people's asses and hopes people are maimed, shot buried etc.

I went to a very rough school. We had days we were not allowed outside because people were shooting at students. Our top basketball player was out for the season after being shot, and the people who bragged the most were the least scary. The ones I would watch out for were the ones who were quiet, they were the true badasses. They never needed to say a word to let you know they could hurt or kill you without question.

I learned a lot there, I learned not to look away to quickly or you were going to be a victim, I learned never to look to long as well. I talked with one of the worst gang members regularly and he told me he would never fight me. It was too risky, he would rather shoot me and not get hurt, so I do not know who you are trying to impress with your histronics, but you come off as neither a badass or intelligent when you make such claims.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

In other words, you're a communist. Thank fucking god that none of the major parties cater to you.

Obama is your man, though... He's a real dark shade of pink.

Intolerant?... no... THIS, IS, AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop dreaming about soviet russia you pinko fags.

Yes because everyone who is on the left side of the Democrats are clearly communists who wish to turn the land of the free into an carbon copy of the Soviet Union. Jesus fucking christ, Fash. I expected better from you.

[Aslanna]

Can you show me more than 2 posts in the past 2 years that you made that are more than a stupid one liner that add nothing at all to the topic at hand? I bet you can't.

You are arguably the most worthless poster here, you should have been banned a long time ago.

Keep tossing those one liners though, you keep proving me right further and further while in your own little delusional world you think you're being cute, funny, witty, or something, I'm not sure, but I assure you that you're none of those things.

Again, thanks for your opinion, I value it highly! Have a great day!

Geez, settle down there Beavis. Don't spit on me. You're not worth the time for me to 'prove' anything to you. So get back to being the worthless human you've demonstrated you are.

[Xatrei]

Tyek - I'm not too familiar with that side of town. I live about 15 minutes south of downtown in a suburb called Hoover, while Leeds is about 20 minutes east of downtown. You'll probably want to drive into Trussville for any decent restaurants, although I'm not sure what's over there other than chains with a few exceptions. Try Jim & Nick's BBQ while you're here. They're a local chain that's been expanding throughout the region, and have several locations around town. They're still as good now as they were when I used to eat at their only location, a tiny hole in the wall with less than 10 tables in an old strip mall, and Jim and Nick still served the food themselves. There are a lot of good, local restaurants and bars in Birmingham around the area / neighborhood called South Side, if you're willing to drive into town (20-25 minutes from Leeds). You might want to check with Rhyae since she lives on that side of town and is probably more familiar with what's over there than I am.

I doubt it's worth my time to make much of a reply on the other stuff at this point because the usual suspects have swept in and vomited copious amounts of stupidity and racism into the discussion, but I said I'd reply so here goes...

Before getting into the meat of things, this isn't directed to any particular individual, it's just a general response to a lot of the points that have been raised by several different people. Also, lets all be perfectly clear about a couple of things. First, when I describe my personal ideology, I'm telling you what is my ideal, not necessarily what's practical to implement - I fully recognize that. My ideal scenario, or anyone else's, will never be achievable because too many people have competing ideological goals and biases that prevent many of the things I'd like to see implemented from happening. My practical side manifests itself in my support for Democratic policy since that is the only viable party that represents attainable policies that most closely align with my own ideals. Secondly, some of you are conflating the shortcomings of Keynesian welfare state policies with socialism. Finally, I have no sympathy for those who can work or otherwise support themselves, but refuse to do so. There's nothing inherent in socialist ideology that mandates lazy people should be rewarded for sitting on their asses while others work. There are times when people are unable, through no direct fault of their own, able to support themselves or their families, and at these times I have no issues with assisting them until they're able to resume earning a living wage (this includes absorbing the cost of retraining for new employment, when circumstances demand it).

I think that many of the failures of socialist governments over the last 100 years can be attributed to imperfect implementations rather than failings of the fundamental ideology. Yet other popularly derided socialist failures have not been socialist at all (e.g. the Keynesian policies in the UK that Thatcher destroyed). Whether by totalitarianism or by insufficiently restrained capitalist influences, true socialist and communist experiments have been corrupted and consequently destined to fail. I do not believe that socialism removes the incentive to perform. I believe that poorly designed or implemented systems which fail to encourage and reward performance do. Financial gain isn't the only reward. As legions of devoted, hard working public servants demonstrate, humanity is perfectly capable of being motivated without a mountain of cash being waved in front of them at the end of a stick.

For some reason, ultra-right wing people accuse everyone of being soft on crime if they don't support mass executions and harsh punishment for even the most minor of crimes. I don't have a problem with locking away forever hardened criminals that are beyond rehabilitation. I don't have a problem with forcing them to do hard labor. I believe that crime, and the underlying drug problems that drive much of it, is a symptom of economic and social policy. I believe that most people who have become involved in criminal activity can be rehabilitated into productive, good citizens if we make the effort to do so, and so I have no issues with trying to divert petty, non-violent (and even some violent criminals depending on their specific circumstances) criminals into programs to help them develop life skills and trades to become productive people.

I'd say more, but I feel like I'm typing for no good reason. I think most people here recognize the value of our government being involved in a lot of the things discussed in this thread. They need no convincing from me. Nothing I say will convince those that are on the opposite side of the debate, so I think I'll use my time more productively by talking to this empty soda bottle on my desk.

[Tyek]

Thanks for the response. I do not disagree with a lot of the things you said. In fact I agree that when someone is injured or otherwise unable to work we should help them for a certain time, as long as needed to recover. I also think if someone is found abusing the system they should be severaly punished. I already said those programs are in place, they just need to be run more efficiently.

I think petty criminals can be rehabilited too, some crimes though are beyond reproach, usually sexually related and they typically have huge recidivism rates.

I would love to properly implement the system you recommended but like you said, in today's culture we cannot properly implement this. One day there may exist some Starship Federation type government, but I do not see it happening in my lifetime.

I almost feel sorry for Obama, he is expected to create huge change in a system that does not like change. Whether he gets the time he needs to actually implement things, or his younger followers lose patience and scorn him will be an interesting aspect of his Presidency.

[Aabidano]

I want the government to stay out of my business and personal affairs as much as possible.

That attitude has just cost American taxpayers over 700 billion dollars.

Yes and no. Pure greed put us in our current position. Executives who are paid to make the numbers this quarter (next year doesn't matter) put us in this position. A regulatory environment that was far too lax allowed it to happen. Boards of directors with short term incentives in the companies who's boards they sat on caused this problem. Shareholders are at fault as well, the big pension fund managers knew what was happening and went along for the ride. It's ironic hearing the foreign banks squeal, when they walked into this with their eyes open. The knew what they were buying buy were blinded by greed just like the rest. This has been building since the late 80s, and no one would listen to the few who were saying the sky was falling. I've been baffled for years why a lot of it was even legal, though I'd never have expected this to happen.

American health care is a fucking joke compared to other first world countries.
Healthcare should be an essential service like police/fire protection or education.

No argument from me in that respect.

Socializing medicine, or worse putting it further into the clutches of insurance companies isn't the way to go either. A public\private system with a lean towards the private would be a decent compromise in my opinion. Both suggestions being put forward in this campaign suck in their own special way.

Seems pretty fucking ridiculous that people are being denied potentially life saving procedures because their insurance company refuses to cover it... and I won't even mention the people who dont have or can't afford health insurance.

That's a much better political statement than a reality based one. I'll admit it can happen in any system. How often? Don't know.

[Funkmasterr]

What metric do you use to judge your high school as one of the 2 or 3 best in the state?

Talk to pretty much anyone in the state about what they would consider the best three school districts in the state, all things considered. I'd be willing to bet 9 out of 10 people would site Wayzata High School (my school), probably Hopkins High School (the district I now live in) and I'd guess Edina. Anything else about the state I live in and schools I went to that you want to second guess?

How many "lazy good for nothing fucks" were bused into your school? "Most" of them ended up in the "alternative" program fairly quickly? "Most" of them spent more time fighting than being in class? Really?

Again, do a little research if you want. The alternative program most of them (my guess would be 85-90%) is called T.A.P. Shortly after they started getting bussed to our school, the school had to hire 5 security guards and get 1 cop on the premise at all times because the violence/fights went through the roof.

You're "working your ass off" while being one of the most prolific posters we've had here in the last few years? Really?

Yes, actually. I have just finalized the paperwork to make the business I started official, but I have already been making decent money fixing computers, etc. Today, at work, they just announced my second promotion in 6 months.

The economy is doing great because none of your friends are having any trouble finding tech jobs in Minnesota. Really?

Things have gotten worse in the weeks and months since I said that. However, I still think how bad things are is being exaggerated. While it might not be indicative of the state as a whole, the company I work for is making new positions constantly (SPS Commerce, if you'd like to look it up), I have several friends who have switched jobs lately, recruiters have been calling a ton of us at work about jobs.. It might just be the specific corner of the industry I'm in, but it sure as fuck isn't hurting.

I don't personally know anyone that has been forclosed on. Sure, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem, but at the same time saying it means nothing is retarded.

You've seen more people shot or stabbed than you can even think of. Really?

I don't feel the need to justify something I discussed with you in a pm, especially because it's not relevant to this thread. However, whatever conception you and others have of me here, I can assure you that you're most likely wrong.

Your bullshit "sample data" is not valid. It never has been, it never will be. It's exaggerated anecdotal bullshit. Sure, maybe one of the kids they bused in was fighting all the time. Maybe 20 were. Maybe every one of them was, but it's still too small a sample size and so tainted by your constant over-exaggeration and invective that it is meaningless.

I'll take published reports from across the country over your nonsense every day.

I'll continue to put a lot more on what I've personally seen, because it's a good starting measurement. It's no wonder, considering who you're voting for though, that experience isn't important to you.

[Tyek]

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MN/schoo ... 10&level=3

That was not hard to do.

[Aslanna]

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MN/schoo ... 10&level=3

That was not hard to do.

Wayzata was #6. That's not the top 3!

[Zaelath]

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MN/schoo ... 10&level=3

That was not hard to do.

Wayzata was #6. That's not the top 3!

That's after they imported all the idiots that resort to violence and intimidation as a first option, you know, like Funk.

[Truant]

Hopkins didn't even make the list.

I guess 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Except that 33% would be a failing grade, at the best (and worst) high school.

[Funkmasterr]

I checked the site out briefly before it was referenced here too, but chose not to use it as a point of reference because as I stated in my above post - with all things considered (property value, taxes, neighborhood, crime, etc, etc, not just test scores) I think you would be hard up to find nicer places in this state than wayzata/hopkins/minnetonka/edina. It's also where the bulk of the wealthy (wayzata, specifically) people in the state live.

But I guess you guys sure showed me! el oh el.

Put your distaste for me aside for two seconds and realize none of you have any clue what the fuck you're talking about.

[Funkmasterr]

Hopkins didn't even make the list.

I guess 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Except that 33% would be a failing grade, at the best (and worst) high school.

And Edina was number 2. That would make it 2/3. But I guess you'd probably still pull off that C too. Good job.

[Truant]

Put your distaste for us aside for two seconds and realize you have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.

[Truant]

Hopkins didn't even make the list.

I guess 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Except that 33% would be a failing grade, at the best (and worst) high school.

And Edina was number 2. That would make it 2/3. But I guess you'd probably still pull off that C too. Good job.

Ok. You said Wayzata, Hopkins and Edina were the top 3.

Wayzata was 6, Hopkins wasn't even in the top 10 and Edina was 2.

Tell me how that is somehow 2/3.

[Funkmasterr]

Hopkins didn't even make the list.

I guess 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Except that 33% would be a failing grade, at the best (and worst) high school.

And Edina was number 2. That would make it 2/3. But I guess you'd probably still pull off that C too. Good job.

Ok. You said Wayzata, Hopkins and Edina were the top 3.

Wayzata was 6, Hopkins wasn't even in the top 10 and Edina was 2.

Tell me how that is somehow 2/3.

Here is what I said:

Talk to pretty much anyone in the state about what they would consider the best three school districts in the state, all things considered. I'd be willing to bet 9 out of 10 people would site Wayzata High School (my school), probably Hopkins High School (the district I now live in) and I'd guess Edina.

I was willing to cut you some slack on hopkins since it didn't make "the list". However, I am not budging on the other two (especially since one is on "the list"), however what I said if you read the above text, is that if you asked A PERSON THAT LIVES HERE, they would probably tell you they consider those to be the best school DISTRICTS. I will hold to what I said, and I assure you most people from MN would probably agree.

Is there anything else you don't know about that you would like to second guess me on before I go to sleep?

Edit: It's really funny how you all detest me so much that these threads drift away from the topic (and the point I was originally making) because you want so badly to make me look stupid so you can have a little nerdgasm.


EDITEDIT: I would also like to add, that Plymouth (the city Wayzata high school is in) was named the best city in the country to live in this year...

link


Pay special attention to this tidbit in the second paragraph:

The city's main school district is ranked among the top three in the state

Again, I have no clue what I'm talking about.

[Fash]

Jesus fucking christ, Fash. I expected better from you.

Sorry, sir, but I am not always serious. I think it's pretty funny that he admits his views are off the left of the charts, yet still spouts his bullshit like it's relevant and should be accepted by the entire population... He doesn't leave any room for being wrong or misinformed. I think I'm pretty moderate, yet I disclaim most of my views or play devils advocate. Discussing politics here has become a pretty pointless endeavor, except for this rare exchange between Tyek and Xatrei.

[Aabidano]

I almost feel sorry for Obama, he is expected to create huge change in a system that does not like change. Whether he gets the time he needs to actually implement things, or his younger followers lose patience and scorn him will be an interesting aspect of his Presidency.

Me too, assuming he actually believes what he's saying. He's not a stupid person, in this environment what does he (or his supporters) realistically think he can do in 4 years? Clean up would take at least 1/2 to one term and isn't in his contributor's or the legislative branch's best interests (McCain's no better or worse in that respect really). I can't see anything worthwhile being in place and functional before the end of a second term.

Seems to be a similar situation to Clinton's first term coming up with all of his supporters being royally pissed off about 2 years after he's elected, if he wins. Despite the media frenzy he hasn't won it yet, looks very close to me.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Jesus fucking christ, Fash. I expected better from you.

Sorry, sir, but I am not always serious. I think it's pretty funny that he admits his views are off the left of the charts, yet still spouts his bullshit like it's relevant and should be accepted by the entire population... He doesn't leave any room for being wrong or misinformed. I think I'm pretty moderate, yet I disclaim most of my views or play devils advocate. Discussing politics here has become a pretty pointless endeavor, except for this rare exchange between Tyek and Xatrei.

left of the established American charts, you mean. And it should be accepted by the entire population as a valid point of view, one which you're welcome to disagree with.

The two-party system has done more damage to the US than anything else I can think of. Except maybe cheese.

[Funkmasterr]

Jesus fucking christ, Fash. I expected better from you.

Sorry, sir, but I am not always serious. I think it's pretty funny that he admits his views are off the left of the charts, yet still spouts his bullshit like it's relevant and should be accepted by the entire population... He doesn't leave any room for being wrong or misinformed. I think I'm pretty moderate, yet I disclaim most of my views or play devils advocate. Discussing politics here has become a pretty pointless endeavor, except for this rare exchange between Tyek and Xatrei.

left of the established American charts, you mean. And it should be accepted by the entire population as a valid point of view, one which you're welcome to disagree with.

The two-party system has done more damage to the US than anything else I can think of. Except maybe cheese.

Not only left of the "American established charts" but WAY left of probably 99% of the population's views. He is vastly in the minority and being condescending about his views. It's ridiculous.

[Nick]

Looks like someone here doesn't quite understand percentages.

[Xatrei]

Sorry, sir, but I am not always serious. I think it's pretty funny that he admits his views are off the left of the charts, yet still spouts his bullshit like it's relevant and should be accepted by the entire population... He doesn't leave any room for being wrong or misinformed. I think I'm pretty moderate, yet I disclaim most of my views or play devils advocate. Discussing politics here has become a pretty pointless endeavor, except for this rare exchange between Tyek and Xatrei.

Not only left of the "American established charts" but WAY left of probably 99% of the population's views. He is vastly in the minority and being condescending about his views. It's ridiculous.

Again, toolbags, I fully recognize that my views are well left of most Americans and of most people on this board. I've said so many times going back a long time. I don't belittle or look down upon points of view to the right of mine because I respect other's opinions whether I agree with them or not, unless they're so off the charts stupid to be beyond respectability. I do, however, treat you guys and your opinions because you're such uninformed, talking-points-spewing dumbasses who vomit lies and bullshit onto this board constantly. Yes, my ideals are extremely left (relative to most Americans), but being a pragmatist I advocate and vote for much more moderate, attainable policies. If you look through the long history of posts discussing policy, I'm generally arguing for issues much less extreme than my own personal politics. Again, don't let reality get in the way of your jerking off to some perceived advantage here, though.

[Funkmasterr]

Must really bother you that even though I'm a "Uninformed, talking-points-spewing dumbass", there are considerably more people in this country that would agree with me as opposed to you.

It's ok, son.

[Sylvus]

"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that." -G. H. Hardy

[Zaelath]

Must really bother you that even though I'm a "Uninformed, talking-points-spewing dumbass", there are considerably more people in this country that would agree with me as opposed to you.

It's ok, son.

Congratulations, in a sea of mediocrity, you're the average.