Does Palin win the VP debate if...

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2008, 1:12 pm

No, not really.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 1:19 pm

Spang wrote:No, not really.

orly?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 6, 2008, 2:01 pm

Sylvus wrote:Larry the Cable Guy?

LTCG is anti-funny.

That is all.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » October 6, 2008, 2:03 pm

Tina Fey does not like McCain or Palin, and writes her own material. She happens to be able to inject her own political bias into a 'relevant' show with great ratings. It's comedy, and should be taken as such, but it's taken for far more as the clips are aired and re-aired on every 'news' show in existence.

I still think it's funny...

Funks point is valid, and I too hate 'celebrities' who put their political bias into their work... especially musicians (hi eddie vedder) though I usually give comedians a pass (I love lewis black, and tina fey)

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 6, 2008, 2:17 pm

I'll agree on the celebrities bit. Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and Michael Moore, for instance, I would rather not listen to. While I have no problem with themspeaking on political matters--that is their constitutional right--I choose not to listen. That is what the remote control is for.

Political comedy--well, if you do not like it, change the fucking channel. There is no reason to get all worked up about it.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 2:17 pm

Fash wrote:Tina Fey does not like McCain or Palin, and writes her own material. She happens to be able to inject her own political bias into a 'relevant' show with great ratings. It's comedy, and should be taken as such, but it's taken for far more as the clips are aired and re-aired on every 'news' show in existence.

I still think it's funny...

Funks point is valid, and I too hate 'celebrities' who put their political bias into their work... especially musicians (hi eddie vedder) though I usually give comedians a pass (I love lewis black, and tina fey)

I'll give you Lewis Black. Although a big part of the reason I think he is funny is just because of how pissed off he always is, lol! I wish that show The Root of All Evil was just him doing standup or whatever on certain topics instead of the debate between the other (and very unfunny, imo) people on the show.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 2:19 pm

Canelek wrote:I'll agree on the celebrities bit. Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and Michael Moore, for instance, I would rather not listen to. While I have no problem with themspeaking on political matters--that is their constitutional right--I choose not to listen. That is what the remote control is for.

Political comedy--well, if you do not like it, change the fucking channel. There is no reason to get all worked up about it.

And I do choose not to watch it. The reason I get irritated about it is because like fash said, this video is popping up all over every website and blog and tv show everywhere, not to mention how many people (including my mom last night) told me I should watch it. I have no interest yet I can't escape this goddamned clip.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2008, 2:28 pm

The latest Tina Palin/Sarah Fey SNL clip makes fun of Biden, too, and the black broad who moderated it.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » October 6, 2008, 3:57 pm

Spang wrote:The latest Tina Palin/Sarah Fey SNL clip makes fun of Biden, too, and the black broad who moderated it.

Nonono Spang, thats just the lefties trying to fool you, dont give in to their biased ways.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 4:04 pm

Hesten wrote:
Spang wrote:The latest Tina Palin/Sarah Fey SNL clip makes fun of Biden, too, and the black broad who moderated it.
Nonono Spang, thats just the lefties trying to fool you, dont give in to their biased ways.

..... Or, that doesn't change the way I feel about the other part of it. Biden's a piece of shit, knowing that anyone thinks he's a good choice to be in any position in the white house is comedy enough for me, I don't need a skit to make it any funnier.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 6, 2008, 4:59 pm

Biden's a piece of shit

How so?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 5:12 pm

Canelek wrote:
Biden's a piece of shit
How so?

Without even getting too much into it - I read an article I think linked from VV that outlined his caveman views on technology. I, like most others, have issues that are important to me. His stance on technology is enough for me to not want to touch him with a ten foot pole. He is a raging asshole, which is not something I have time for in a pres/VP candidate.

His archaic beliefs should do nothing other than prove that he is in fact just another career politician, he is business as usual, and that, sir, is a contradiction to Obama's whole campaign ideals. There are really no valid excuses/reasons for this (although I'm sure someone will post about how it balances the ticket out, which is a cop out way of spinning things).

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 6, 2008, 5:14 pm

Link? Or are you just making shit up again as usual?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 5:17 pm

Nick wrote:Link? Or are you just making shit up again as usual?

Dig through the current events forum, I'm almost positive it was a link from VV. Otherwise, I'm sure someone else knows which thread I'm referencing.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2008, 5:20 pm

McCain is old, a career politician, and an asshole. Also, he doesn't know how to use a computer.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 6, 2008, 5:21 pm

So this simple magical unfindable link is whats swaying you away from reason and into the arms of anti-abortion new earth creationists Funk?

weak to say the least.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 5:24 pm

Nick wrote:So this simple magical unfindable link is whats swaying you away from reason and into the arms of anti-abortion new earth creationists Funk?

weak to say the least.

I'm sure it would be very easy for you to find if you read the last half dozen threads in CE

I don't agree with the anti-abortion or creationism parts of the Republican ideals, but like I've said before - I'm realistic enough to know that they won't be able to do anything about those things other than talk about them. It's not like McCain/Palin are the first candidates that have been anti-abortion....

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 6, 2008, 5:31 pm

Spang wrote:McCain is old, a career politician, and an asshole. Also, he doesn't know how to use a computer.

Link? Or are you just making shit up again as usual?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2008, 5:34 pm

Let me get a link verifying his age...

McCain is, in fact old.

(Born August 29, 1936 (age 72)

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 5:36 pm

I think this is the same article, if not, it's got the same basic points.

Magical Link

Post by **Sylvus** » October 6, 2008, 5:37 pm

Well, Funk is referring to CNET article that made some claims about Biden, that was linked in this VV thread.

The part that I believe Funk might not have read, is where Xatrei mentions that Phil Zimmerman, who is referenced in the CNET article, has come out to say that what was written about him in that article is not true. If it is the case that part of the article is not true, it brings into question the validity of the whole article.

I'm curious as to how Funk can know that a President and a VP whose personal or party beliefs coincide on creationism and/or abortion won't be able to get anything done, but a President and a VP whose personal and party beliefs disagree on copyright law and EFF vs. MPAA (Obama is more pro-EFF and Biden has in the past been pro-MPAA) somehow pose a threat to him? The bottom line is that you steal stuff from the internet, that'll never be legal, and that doesn't seem like a very good reason to call Biden an asshole.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 5:43 pm

Sylvus wrote:Well, Funk is referring to CNET article that made some claims about Biden, that was linked in this VV thread.

The part that I believe Funk might not have read, is where Xatrei mentions that Phil Zimmerman, who is referenced in the CNET article, has come out to say that what was written about him in that article is not true. If it is the case that part of the article is not true, it brings into question the validity of the whole article.

I'm curious as to how Funk can know that a President and a VP whose personal or party beliefs coincide on creationism and/or abortion won't be able to get anything done, but a President and a VP whose personal and party beliefs disagree on copyright law and EFF vs. MPAA (Obama is more pro-EFF and Biden has in the past been pro-MPAA) somehow pose a threat to him? The bottom line is that you steal stuff from the internet, that'll never be legal, and that doesn't seem like a very good reason to call Biden an asshole.

Does it pose a threat to me? No. What it does do is precisely what I said: It is (Biden being a career politician) a contradiction to Obama's campaign. Which makes Obama a liar or a hypocrite. And it's too soon for Obama to be getting into that groove, already.

I never said I wanted it to be legal, and I also didn't state that as the reason I called him an asshole. I called him that because that's how he carries himself, like a hot headed asshole.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 6, 2008, 6:03 pm

Were I running for president, I would not pick a VP candidate whose views directly mirrored mine.
In fact, I'd find someone who I respected, but whose views were very different from mine.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2008, 6:17 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Spang wrote:McCain is old, a career politician, and an asshole. Also, he doesn't know how to use a computer.
Link? Or are you just making shit up again as usual?

The link I posted above also proves that he's a career politician.

Here's a link proving McCain is an asshole.

John McCain's temper is well documented. He's called opponents and colleagues "shitheads," "assholes" and in at least one case "a fucking jerk."

And now a link proving McCain's computer illiteracy.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 6, 2008, 7:13 pm

Rolling Stone magazine has a very interesting article about McCain's long history of douchebaggery. It's long, but well worth a read:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/covers ... ohn_mccain

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 6, 2008, 7:25 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I don't agree with the anti-abortion or creationism parts of the Republican ideals, but like I've said before - I'm realistic enough to know that they won't be able to do anything about those things other than talk about them.

Realistic? More like delusional. Then again things are just peachy over in Bizarro Minnesota. How are the economy and unemployment doing there lately? Still doing fabulous?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 7:45 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I don't agree with the anti-abortion or creationism parts of the Republican ideals, but like I've said before - I'm realistic enough to know that they won't be able to do anything about those things other than talk about them.
Realistic? More like delusional. Then again things are just peachy over in Bizarro Minnesota. How are the economy and unemployment doing there lately? Still doing fabulous?

Thanks for your contribution!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 6, 2008, 7:52 pm

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:
Spang wrote:McCain is old, a career politician, and an asshole. Also, he doesn't know how to use a computer.
Link? Or are you just making shit up again as usual?
The link I posted above also proves that he's a career politician.

Here's a link proving McCain is an asshole.

John McCain's temper is well documented. He's called opponents and colleagues "shitheads," "assholes" and in at least one case "a fucking jerk."
And now a link proving McCain's computer illiteracy.

You Failed.

Scroll up to see where my response was copied from.

Jerk off until you feel better

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2008, 8:02 pm

I guess I suck at detecting sarcasm on the internet.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 6, 2008, 8:10 pm

Spang wrote:I guess I suck at detecting sarcasm on the internet.

It's ok, so do I.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 6, 2008, 8:42 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
It's ok, so do I.

Thanks for your contribution!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 6, 2008, 9:41 pm

What's actually more ridiculous than anything else is that in the 21st century people are actually supporting the types of morons who believe the world is 6000 years old. Really. Have you all gone fucking batshit insane? You fucking well must have. Idiots. Even Winnow, spineless vacuous little cunt that he is, has jumped from the McCain boat. If Winnow's ahead of you, you really are a fucking moron. If McCain doesn't lose, the USA deserves to be shown a dose of reality.

The fact that this simple little reality isn't enough to make even the most average man flee in disgust says a lot for the state of america in 2008. And more specifically, says a lot for the dumb bastards like Funk who keep posting on VV as if it was the year 5. AN UNBELIEVABLE DISREGARD FOR BASIC LOGIC AND SCIENCE IS SUCH A BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO BY ANY WESTERN STANDARDS FUNDAMENTALLY CONSERVATIVE CHANGES BY THE DEMOCRATS DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Anyone who thinks the Democrats of the USA are liberal are living still within the USA unevolved island mentality thats driven the entirety of the world to look upon the place with an equal measure of abject horror, fear and pity all at the same time. It' gotten really fucking old guys.

Time to grow up. Get over it.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 6, 2008, 10:06 pm

Nick wrote: It' gotten really fucking old guys.

Time to grow up. Get over it.

Funny, I think the same thing about your posts everytime you even hint at the word America.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 6, 2008, 10:29 pm

Nick wrote:Anyone who thinks the Democrats of the USA are liberal are living still within the USA unevolved island mentality thats driven the entirety of the world to look upon the place with an equal measure of abject horror, fear and pity all at the same time. It' gotten really fucking old guys.

Agreed. I get so sick and tired of Democrats in this country being described as liberal or leftist. This is true only in comparison to the conservative Republican ideology that is so far off the right-wing-wacko end of scale it's pathetic. With rare exceptions, even the most liberal members of the Democratic party are still far too conservative to provide anything close to an ideological match for the too-rare, genuine lefties in this country.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 6, 2008, 10:31 pm

Tyek wrote:
Nick wrote: It' gotten really fucking old guys.

Time to grow up. Get over it.
Funny, I think the same thing about your posts everytime you even hint at the word America.

Fortunately, your opinion is irrelevant due to the fact that you are a stupid little man.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 6, 2008, 10:36 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Nick wrote:Anyone who thinks the Democrats of the USA are liberal are living still within the USA unevolved island mentality thats driven the entirety of the world to look upon the place with an equal measure of abject horror, fear and pity all at the same time. It' gotten really fucking old guys.
Agreed. I get so sick and tired of Democrats in this country being described as liberal or leftist. This is true only in comparison to the conservative Republican ideology that is so far off the right-wing-wacko end of scale it's pathetic. With rare exceptions, even the most liberal members of the Democratic party are still far too conservative to provide anything close to an ideological match for the too-rare, genuine lefties in this country.

I find that the types of Americans most prone to using the word "liberal" generally don't have a fucking clue what they are talking about. (Interesting side note, it usually isn't liberals bandying about the word "liberal", its those uneducated redneck hick morons who seem to masturbate daily to the thought of using the word liberal as if it was the modern day equivalent of "nazi". Retards like Funkmoron and that embarrassing stain on humanity called "kilmoll" or some shit tend to use this after having been repeatedly humiliated as a desperate (and comically useless) attempt to have their stupid as fuck opinions considered half way worthy (always fails btw). Haha.

Sometimes I really do think eugenics may have been a legitimate response.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 6, 2008, 10:37 pm

I am just curious X, not trying to be a dick or question your beliefs, I would just be interested in what you think is truely liberal thinking? Significant social programs to help everyone? more of a socialist bent? Less government?

I hate the stupid labels people lay on others. I am a conservative when it comes to government, meaning I want less involvement from the Federal government, but I also want some social programs. I truely think we have much of what we need in place today, just extremely poorly run and instead of functioning as they are meant too, they have become political machines for the existing parties.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 7, 2008, 12:49 am

Tyek wrote:I am just curious X, not trying to be a dick or question your beliefs, I would just be interested in what you think is truely liberal thinking? Significant social programs to help everyone? more of a socialist bent? Less government?

I hate the stupid labels people lay on others. I am a conservative when it comes to government, meaning I want less involvement from the Federal government, but I also want some social programs. I truely think we have much of what we need in place today, just extremely poorly run and instead of functioning as they are meant too, they have become political machines for the existing parties.

No worries, Tyek. I don't think it's a dickish question to ask, and you're definitely *NOT* one of the group of nuts here that I dismiss out of hand. I'm just checking in before I head to bed, though, and I don't have time to get into this too much. I'll reply with greater detail sometime tomorrow. Until then, clarify one thing for me: are you asking me about my own political and economic ideology (which is well left of our Democratic party) or just what I generally consider to be "liberal" thinking? This may not be entirely relevant since my answer to one will probably line up pretty closely with the other.

*edited to fix my goof up.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 7, 2008, 2:42 am

Nick wrote:
Tyek wrote:
Nick wrote: It' gotten really fucking old guys.

Time to grow up. Get over it.
Funny, I think the same thing about your posts everytime you even hint at the word America.
Fortunately, your opinion is irrelevant due to the fact that you are a stupid little man.

Yes Nick, we all know, you speak for all of the world and your opinions are the only relevent ones. /yawn.

Also for the record, mine was not a personal attack, mine was pointing out that you seem to be becoming a one trick pony, anti-USA everything. Feel free to throw out personal attacks, they are great and very mature. When you are off the USA topic you come up with some very interesting posts. I would hang with you anytime, although it is clear the feeling is not mutual and that's fine.

Also for the record, I am 6'1" 205 lbs and I work out regularly. I could lose 10 pounds, but it is hard when you have been through 8 (9 in November) knee surgeries, and have bad arthritis in your knees. So I may in fact be stupid, but I am not small.

You have become the equivalent of the Religious Wackjob, you espouse grand statements, and then attack anyone who questions you rather then engage in actual discussion about it.

You form blanket statements about Americans, and specific posters on here, but when called a Leprican, you shout Xenophobe. The statement is obviously a joke, unlike your negative attitude towards Americans, but the person calling you that is the Xenophobe?

You call out the failures of the US, Yet I can never recall you calling out your own government for similiar failures. I would be happy to discuss anything with you, but it never gets past the "I know you are but what am I," stage when you are questioned.

The US is the world superpower, they are watched more then anyone because they affect the world. We understand that, in fact looking at the posts, most of us on here, funk included have admitted to the issues we have created. If you want to also question that, go ahead, but to then post shit about US sports and not claim to be anti-USA? Bullshit. You had several valid responses to your post, but you ignored them.

When you tell everyone in the Olympic thread to stop discussing US pride, how can we not see it as anything but Nick hates America??

I, for one, am tired of it, and like you (see I put green there - I am a Xenophobe)I decided my view is the one that speaks for the whole country and also this board. So I posted it.

I will give you credit for being consistent though.

ok, go ahead start more name-calling. Hurry up though the recess bell is going to ring soon.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 7, 2008, 2:47 am

No worries, Tyek. I don't think it's a dickish question to ask, and you're definitely one of the group of nuts here that I dismiss out of hand.

Ok, not sure what I have done to be dismissed out of hand, or lumped with the Funks of the world. Appreciate your response though. I was just curious. I know I am more conservative then many, but I am not even close to some of the conservatives on this board. I think I am pretty middle of the road actually, depending on the issue.

I was asking more about your personal ideals and how they relate to the party (Democratic) that you lean towards. I have stated several times, I went Republican because I want less government, less censorship and less intrusion in my life. At one time that was supposed to be the Republican Ideology. It very clearly is not anymore, they have been taken over by religious nutjobs and the only way I can think to make my case against their leanings is to vote against them.

I wondered how far you feel the current Democratic party has strayed from the ideals that made you favor them.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 7, 2008, 9:18 am

He mistyped. He edited his above post for you.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 7, 2008, 10:32 am

Tyek wrote:Ok, not sure what I have done to be dismissed out of hand, or lumped with the Funks of the world. Appreciate your response though. I was just curious. I know I am more conservative then many, but I am not even close to some of the conservatives on this board. I think I am pretty middle of the road actually, depending on the issue.

I was asking more about your personal ideals and how they relate to the party (Democratic) that you lean towards. I have stated several times, I went Republican because I want less government, less censorship and less intrusion in my life. At one time that was supposed to be the Republican Ideology. It very clearly is not anymore, they have been taken over by religious nutjobs and the only way I can think to make my case against their leanings is to vote against them.

I wondered how far you feel the current Democratic party has strayed from the ideals that made you favor them.

OMG Tyek, I edited what I typed initially, and inadvertently cut out one very important word in that sentence: "not" (I fixed it now to avoid any further confusion). Like I said, I was heading to bed at the time, and must have just spaced out to have not caught that. You're definitely not one of those that I dismiss out of hand, nor do I lump you in with the Funks, Kilmolls or Fashes of the board. Judging from the opinions you've expressed previously, I think you're a pretty moderate fellow, that leans to the left or the right on several issues. I apologize for my sloppy editing confusing the situation. Now on to answering your question.

I don't think that the Democratic party has strayed from any ideals that pulled me to them, they never shared mine to begin with. To be clear, I don't vote Democratic because I think they match my own political ideology, nor has that party ever done so. The Democratic platform is far to the right of my own positions on virtually everything. I typically vote Democratic, however, because even though that party is far too right-leaning, IMO, it's preferable to the Republican party whose ideology is more unpalatable. Our unfortunate two party system virtually eliminates the possibility of a third (or fourth or eleventh) party from having any real effect on our politics, and so I don't envision my own ideology ever being represented by a viable party in this country.

As for my own beliefs, I'll try to give you some idea of where I stand for now, but any detailed discussion will have to wait until a bit later. I'm leaving for a doctor's appointment in a couple of minutes, and I don't have time to get into lots of details now. I would have just waited to post until later, but when I realized my typo, I wanted to address that now. Until later, suffice it to say that I do consider myself to be a genuine socialist, and while I'm not a pure Marxist, I do lean quite a bit in that direction. I oppose corporatism, globalization and so called "free trade," but I do favor internationalism on other political issues. I believe in protectionism and in heavy regulation on business and I think that many industries should be entirely nationalized (energy, transportation, health care to name a few). On social matters of importance here, I think that abortion should be available to those that need it and I think that gays should be able to marry and adopt like any hetero couple. For now I have to run, but later, I'll happily go into more details on any of this as well as stuff that I didn't even get into.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » October 7, 2008, 10:47 am

In other words, you're a communist. Thank fucking god that none of the major parties cater to you.

Obama is your man, though... He's a real dark shade of pink.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 7, 2008, 1:44 pm

Thanks for the clarification Xatrei, I was wondering what I had done to be lumped in with them.

Your points I guess show where I am conservative and where I am more left leaning.

I agree on the energy system needing to be moved to Governmental control and I think you will see it moving that way in the future. It will become like the national highway system where the Government runs the main tranmission backbone and local groups and governments will handle the distribution networks.

I also agree that we need some social aspect to our economy. I love the ideals of social programs, that no one gets left behind concept is noble and worthwhile and I even want to help fund it to some extent. Human nature has ruined every socialist government that has existed though. I truely believe we have much of the social programs we need already in place, but that we spend an inordinate amount of that money on running those programs and if they were streamlined and made more efficient we could do the work they were meant to do with what we already have.

I think that if we went with a socialist based approach, you would take away the incentive most have to succeed. Our sharpest and most creative minds would go elsewhere because there would be no incentive here to create something good and have the government take it from you. Unfortunately in socialist programs the ones who get rich are the government officials and their friends. This happens to a lesser extent in a Free Market based system, but if you work hard in it you have a chance to do well for yourself.

Look around your work. For every one hard worker there are 2 or 3 that are skating. It is human nature. Now take away the incentive to make more money, get promoted etc. That 2 or 3 would become 5 or 8. If I work my ass off and Bob doesn't, I can get more money right now. In a socialist program you would take that away from me and I would lose the incentive to outwork Bob.

I pay a sizeable amount in taxes, I mentioned this before and frankly if they take more from me then I am screwed. I would rather take that same money and invest it in the housing market, stock market, etc, things that ultimately help the ecomomy, but last year we donated a huge chunk of change to helping the government help others. We both file 0 because if we do not then we would actually owe money??

I guess that is where my conservative side kicks in, on the fiscal equation. I was probably rambling, I need to head to an appointment, and my knee is killing me so I am focusing as best as I can, but while noble, I think socialism is doomed to failure. Look at the Darwin model, we need to adapt and get stronger to survive, if you take away that need, we will get complacent and lazy and eventually lose everything.

just my 2 cents. Thanks for your thoughts, it is interesting to see them and while I am sure we bored the rest of the posters here, it is nice to have an actual discussion instead of ..."You suck at life, go die...blah blah blah."

Hope your Dr appointment goes well.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 7, 2008, 1:59 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Tyek wrote:Ok, not sure what I have done to be dismissed out of hand, or lumped with the Funks of the world. Appreciate your response though. I was just curious. I know I am more conservative then many, but I am not even close to some of the conservatives on this board. I think I am pretty middle of the road actually, depending on the issue.

I was asking more about your personal ideals and how they relate to the party (Democratic) that you lean towards. I have stated several times, I went Republican because I want less government, less censorship and less intrusion in my life. At one time that was supposed to be the Republican Ideology. It very clearly is not anymore, they have been taken over by religious nutjobs and the only way I can think to make my case against their leanings is to vote against them.

I wondered how far you feel the current Democratic party has strayed from the ideals that made you favor them.
OMG Tyek, I edited what I typed initially, and inadvertently cut out one very important word in that sentence: "not" (I fixed it now to avoid any further confusion). Like I said, I was heading to bed at the time, and must have just spaced out to have not caught that. You're definitely not one of those that I dismiss out of hand, nor do I lump you in with the Funks, Kilmolls or Fashes of the board. Judging from the opinions you've expressed previously, I think you're a pretty moderate fellow, that leans to the left or the right on several issues. I apologize for my sloppy editing confusing the situation. Now on to answering your question.

I don't think that the Democratic party has strayed from any ideals that pulled me to them, they never shared mine to begin with. To be clear, I don't vote Democratic because I think they match my own political ideology, nor has that party ever done so. The Democratic platform is far to the right of my own positions on virtually everything. I typically vote Democratic, however, because even though that party is far too right-leaning, IMO, it's preferable to the Republican party whose ideology is more unpalatable. Our unfortunate two party system virtually eliminates the possibility of a third (or fourth or eleventh) party from having any real effect on our politics, and so I don't envision my own ideology ever being represented by a viable party in this country.

As for my own beliefs, I'll try to give you some idea of where I stand for now, but any detailed discussion will have to wait until a bit later. I'm leaving for a doctor's appointment in a couple of minutes, and I don't have time to get into lots of details now. I would have just waited to post until later, but when I realized my typo, I wanted to address that now. Until later, suffice it to say that I do consider myself to be a genuine socialist, and while I'm not a pure Marxist, I do lean quite a bit in that direction. I oppose corporatism, globalization and so called "free trade," but I do favor internationalism on other political issues. I believe in protectionism and in heavy regulation on business and I think that many industries should be entirely nationalized (energy, transportation, health care to name a few). On social matters of importance here, I think that abortion should be available to those that need it and I think that gays should be able to marry and adopt like any hetero couple. For now I have to run, but later, I'll happily go into more details on any of this as well as stuff that I didn't even get into.

So basically, your views contradict everything this country was founded on? Insults aside, your views scare the shit out of me, and I hope this country never starts to go in this direction during my lifetime.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 7, 2008, 2:03 pm

your views scare the shit out of me

Why are you so intolerant?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 7, 2008, 2:20 pm

miir wrote:
your views scare the shit out of me
Why are you so intolerant?

Reading both Fash' and Funkmasterr's comments made me think that.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » October 7, 2008, 2:21 pm

Intolerant?... no... THIS, IS, AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop dreaming about soviet russia you pinko fags.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 7, 2008, 2:30 pm

Fash wrote:In other words, you're a communist. Thank fucking god that none of the major parties cater to you.

Obama is your man, though... He's a real dark shade of pink.

You do realize that of communism and socialism, one is a subset of the other, and the two are not synonymous, right? Oh, who am I kidding, of course you don't. I'll concede that traditional communist ideology and my own political ideals share some common ground, especially given my acceptance of many Marxist ideas, but I do not consider myself a communist by any stretch of the imagination, especially not the sort of totalitarian regimes you're lumping me in with. You, I suspect, draw little distinction between Soviet communism and any other variation of socialist thinking, or even the faintest hint of such as in the case of the right-of-center Democratic Party because you're entirely too stupid and uninformed to recognize that it's not all just "good ol' red-blooded 'mericans" vs. the commies.

If you think even for a second that Obama's political and economic ideology is anywhere close to my own, you're a bigger delusional retard than I previously imagined, which is no small feat.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 7, 2008, 2:43 pm

miir wrote:
your views scare the shit out of me
Why are you so intolerant?

Intolerant? I was being honest. His views go against what this country was founded on and is supposed to represent. If I wanted to live in a socialist/communist country/society I would do so, but I continue to call America my home because of what it represents.

I love my freedom. I love a challenge, both in my personal life, and in my professional life. I love to be able to rise above others because of the effort I put into striving to be amongst the best at what I do. I love that when I do rise above others at what I do, that I will be rewarded for doing so fiscally and will be able to afford myself more of the luxuries that I would like to indulge in.

I want the government to stay out of my business and personal affairs as much as possible. I want none of my money going to people looking for government handouts because they have not/do not want to put forth the effort to also be successful and independent. I do not want corporations heavily regulated and/or subsidized by the government. I do not want health care and medicine to be controlled by the government, for a number of reasons.

Does that make me intolerant? No, what it adds up to is Xatrei and I have belief structures that cannot and will not ever have common ground. I do not humor what he says because it's so far to the left of anything that I'd ever believe, that it would be wasting the time of all parties involved.

EDIT: Xatrei has admitted himself that his views are far left, probably even quite a bit further left than a lot of the lefties here. Taking that into consideration, logic would lead you to believe that very few people here (and probably in this country in general) are going to agree with him on many things. For this reason I find it hilarious that he continues to resort immediately to insulting people because they don't share his (again, self admitted) extreme views.

Does Palin win the debate if she manages not to curse, throw up, or fall down?