EQ1 - Still better in its day, than games released since...

[Xanupox]

EQ was not that great of a game technically, the graphics were lacking, the UI was ass, Ventrilo and Teamspeak were not really widely know - thus actually typing to others was the norm for communication. Given all those limitations, why was the longevity and fun factor fo EQ so huge in comparison to nowdays games and games released this decade?

How the hell is it that all these new MMO's just "grow old and boring", even with all thier bells and whistles when compared to the personal long-term fun everyone had back in old EQ.

I mean, I played EQ from 1999 till 2002, sure there were a few periods with more or less playtime during those years but for the most part it was non-stop, hours a day.

Nowdays, I cannot even fathom commiting that much time to a game, anygame, no mattter how awesome it is.

I just have trouble trying to find the missing link in any new game that has released since EQ.

If I had to make my guess, it would be the fact that EQ was a SOCIALLY driven game at the core. Your abililties or hinderances were heavily influenced by social stabilities, reliances and interactions within your own guilds, other guilds and freelance players. Reputations, Respect, Fear, Desires from the actual human player controlling thier character was directly reflected in the game.

Today's games, do not even consider these ideas or feelings it seems. The sheer lack of forcing multiple players to actually interact in an "MMO" is on oxymoron in itself. The more technology advances the further and further we grow from good quality social games, like EQ1.

AoC for example, multiple servers with various rulesets. The first chance for players to segregate themselves from other player types they may or not think fit the bill of who they would enjoy gaming around or with. The second choice is the instances, how easy it is to just flip a switch and goto another "world" within the same game. Not enjoying the PvP, the challenge, the chat or the actions of others in the instance your'e in in now? No problem, just click a button and everything gets reshuffled. A new deck to draw from. Instead of trying to PvP back, trying to talk out an issue and build a social relationship, instead of dealing with the cards you were dealt, people take the easy way out and switch instances.... does this even make an MMO an MMO any longer? To me it just seems like you are given an "Opt Out" from the game, if it doesnt suit your playstyle... however at the same time, that Opt-Out is virtually cutting the throat of social opportunities that made EQ the best game ever.

The auction houses, they eliminate the social aspect of trading, bartering, making deals. No longer does it even exist that you make a purchase on credit of your good word or guild, then spend the next 2 weeks non stop farming in order to raise the funds needed to pay off your debt.

Long distance instant travelling, over used and too convienient. In the old days, you needed to rely on social structures to make friends with teleporting classes... this was used as an income for those players and it added yet another level to the communications front to social gaming. In todays games, people have instant travel spells to "home", to cities, to other instances... too many.

I could go on and on, but because I just no longer find any satisfaction beyond the first couple months of a new MMO, no matter how great the graphics, how great the features, the stories the engine.... those missing social structures... like them or not, is what made EQ the best game this decade.


People can argue both ways, at how "convience" has surpassed the "time sinks" that hindered games of old like, EQ... however those conviences also cut the throat of most social builders at the same time it cut time sinks. Go you goto church to sit in a pew by youself and listen to a single man speak, or do you go for the opportunity to talk to others before and after the sermon in addition to the spiritual message. Do you goto a concert to sit alone in a stadium and listen to the band on stage or do you go for the enviroment before, during and after the performance? Do you remember any particular quest from EQ or do you remember those people you played the game with?

Socializing to the level of what EQ forced is what it great... everything released since EQ has been doing in the wrong direction in regards to building a game that creates inside itself an addicting social atmosphere to keep players around for years.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

They're only looking at the bottom line. They are making tons of money and the younger kids with less responsibility, as we once were, are still dedicating 10 hrs a day to these games.

[Gzette]

Whenever I tell folks I've met in WoW who didn't play EQ about the kind of stuff you had to put up with ... especially quests and rare spawns ... they freak out. I explained epic quests to one guy and he thought it was mind blowing.

They were annoying, but I do miss them. And I agree to a certain degree that EQ forced you to engage in social structures. Whether Verant meant it or not is another question.

[Winnow]

WoW (and everything else) blows hard compared to EQ+Kunark if you were a hardcore player.

There were a couple thousand players on Veeshan and you recognized most of the names and knew 100's of people on various levels via chat/grouping or at least recognized the names even of the Japanese players.

The game had a lot of character with the people you hated making it as entertaining as the people you liked. You're right about the social aspect of the game being the key. The guild interactions made for good times.

Drama

[Xanupox]

In todays games, all you hear onon forums is "I can't solo X mobs". "I can't deal enough damage". Every developer and every player has fallen to the belief that every class in every game should be able to DPS mobs thier own level, if not higher... be able to at least "self-heal", via self based abilities, or unrealistic amounts of potions as in Age of Conan. in AoC, you have heal/stamina/mana potions that not only give you a good amount of each stat back on use but then continue for 60 seconds to replenish your stats, depending on which potion you used.... did I mention they made them so cheap you can just buy 100 at a time and basically use them as a "heal-mana-stamina" bot thru your entire gameplay. The use of potions allow you to kill mobs higher than you with eash, thus giving you more money than you should have at your level, thus allowing you to buy more potions than you should be able to aquire normally, thus repeating the cycle.

What happened to healers heal, melee deals damage and absorbs hit, spell casters do mass damage fast but take time to recover.... no, those classes are all gone. Even in Dungeons and Dragons Online, you can solo no matter what class you are. Potions, abilities and such make it viable for all classes.

Original EQ had healers who were miserable at dealing damage outside of fighting certain types of monsters (clerics - undead) etc. In AoC the healing class "tempest of set" can no only heal better than any class in the game, thier DPS is also higher than any class. They are "soft" classes but because of thier healing ability they can basically negate any amount of DPS coming in on them indefinately, making them basically a "god" class.

This is the end result of a trend, that shows the game developers trending away from what they know to succumbing to the whining of a minoriy of players on a forum. Players that do not see the big picture of why things are the way they are, just limited in seeing what they want "NOW!" for thie class to be self sustainable and be able to "solo" thier way through an MMO game.

Until a paradigm shift occurs in the developement sector, nothing will improve and we as players will just be forced to play these 1-2 month wonders until the end of time.

Sadly, that paradigm shift will most likely never occur in the established community. Mergers of development teams and companies, higher costs of game R&D, increased demands from casual gamers based on the capabilities of what is percieved as "must haves" or standards in the current MMO genre... are all overwhelming limitations.

I guess if maybe some upstart company comes along with private funding, they could be our last hope. However dont expect anything good to ever come from Sony, Blizzard, EA or anyone else in that league of gaming production... they have all lost sight of thier old school dreams, thier game developers no longer have any pull and everyone is demanding from corporate boards of people who don't play games. They only want deadlines met for the quick money.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

This is the end result of a trend, that shows the game developers trending away from what they know to succumbing to the whining of a minority of players on a forum. Players that do not see the big picture of why things are the way they are, just limited in seeing what they want "NOW!" for thie class to be self sustainable and be able to "solo" thier way through an MMO game.

I love you.

[masteen]

The paradigm has shifted, you just didn't shift with it. There will never be a non-niche (think sub-25k subs) that repeats the misery that was the EQ cleric while making that class so necessary to the end-game. You can babble all you want about "ye goode auld dayes," but the majority of people aren't willing to tolerate that shit for something that is supposed to be entertainment or a hobby.

[Animalor]

There's also the fact that EQ was new, fresh and exciting back in the day. This was a whole new genre and a lot of us where on the cutting edge of that.

I can't play an MMO for more than 20 minutes now before being bored out of my mind. It may be that I've become wiser(or just older and crustyer) and less patient for time consuming bullshit like the MMO grindfest.

[Sylvus]

I also find that I don't have as much fun playing doctor with the 7 year-old girl that lives next door as I did when I was 6 years old.

[Winnow]

I also find that I don't have as much fun playing doctor with the 7 year-old girl that lives next door as I did when I was 6 years old.

I see where you're going with that! That girl might have a daughter that you can still play doctor with though.*

I disagree with that analogy when applied to EQ.

There can be a game like EQ created that fixes the glitches while getting keeping the specialized class challenges.





for the slow people: kidding

[VariaVespasa]

The paradigm has shifted, you just didn't shift with it. There will never be a non-niche (think sub-25k subs) that repeats the misery that was the EQ cleric while making that class so necessary to the end-game. You can babble all you want about "ye goode auld dayes," but the majority of people aren't willing to tolerate that shit for something that is supposed to be entertainment or a hobby.

Um, I enjoyed being a cleric....

[Xanupox]

EQ was designed to be an Ultima Online killer. The next big MMO is going to be designed to be a WoW, EQ2, AoC, Warhammer, bla bla bla killer.

There is no distinct mold that you can create that would give an overall advantage to a new game, that at the same time would make it a distinguishable improvment to what is already out there or has been done.

Ultima Online was a mostly solo-duo game, tons of Free for all PvP, full looting of items/gold, PKing, Griefing and played from a 2D top down perspective that was reflected in all its previous single player games of which is was based upon.

EQ took the UO mold and shattered it. They offered a full 3D enviroment, offered Dungeons and Dragons based classes. Each class type soared in its respective ability to do something, melee DPS, spell damage, healing, damage absorbtion... etc., EQ offered actual partying with an interface, you could see health bars in a group window, formed team work, relied on players to help eachother succeed. No one was a "tank mage", no one was able to "summon demons" or stack bags of flour on top of armoirs in order to life your character high enough to step over the front door of your house and rob all your loot that you took a year amassing.

The EQ game was ground breaking, they made thier trails and blazed them.

Nowdays, everything has been done. When a new MMO comes onto the drawing board, the discussion seems to be less and less of what they can create, design, innovate and more of "what we need to include" in our game to make money and make it fun and fast. No downtime, no time sinks, no forced player interaction.

In Age of Conan, I took a journey. I purposed avoided grouping, I wanted to see how far I could get in the game with ZERO interaction from other players. I wanted to see what content I could complete and what I would have to skip, while still having fun, while still progressing.

I quit at level 65, not because I couldnt succeed any longer... simply because I saw nothing that would stop me from reaching level 80 and pressing the "I WIN" button for completion.

I never grouped once.

I was able to solo dungeon bosses with a light armor wearing barbarian class, via the use of exploits, potions, skills and wits... in no particular order.

Think about this in 1999-2000. Pick a class like, Ranger. Go level yourself up to 60, while clearing out Lower Guk, and SolB solo. Never group once and complete every quest for your class in the game. Impossible then, but very much expected now.

This is the differnce, and yet we are not going back. Todays games are about short term commitment for short lived excitement. They are designed to give a overwhelming front end experience and then end up with a lackluster endgame. Completely opposite of EQ.

When is the last time you died in a game and LOST XP for it, or lost a level or two... just trying to break into a new zone? Probably not since the Plane of Fear.

Yes it was frustrating, yes it was hard but the long lasting since of satisfaction from success was nothing like todays games can offer. I just played AoC for nearly 6 weeks and no particular quest, event or item even comes close to sticking out in my mind. Actually the only thing I honestly recall as memorable was PKing a son-of-abitch that killed me much earlier in my travels and that vengence was sweet. We later chatted quite a bit after I killed him, and that is probably the most talking in AoC that I did for the whole 6 weeks.

People still play EQ today, and I bet for the majority of them it is due to their social enviroments within the game. Thier guilds, friends, enemies and arch nemesis is there and if they left... it would all be gone. Thus they stay, they pay and they enjoy. Something todays games all lack.

[*~*stragi*~*]

let me sum this thread up:

my name is xanupox and i hate fun. the end.

[Dregor Thule]

EQ definitely had a better social aspect to it than I've found in WoW, but I attribute that more to the smaller player base than the games themselves. With EQ you had a niche group of people that generally were all pretty similar as far as interests went. WoW has been successfully marketed to the general public and the quality of your average player reflects that. There are still some kickass people like you'd find in EQ (who probably did in fact play EQ), you just have to get lucky to find them sadly. The fact you can swap servers on a whim and levelling up a new "main" character surely doesn't help, but it's a minor contributing factor IMO.

Oh yeah, and Xanupox is a dirty whore.

[Aslanna]

Some people don't like being forced to group. Some people just like to play at their own pace and on their own time. It's as simple as that.

[Mak]

Some people don't like being forced to group. Some people just like to play at their own pace and on their own time. It's as simple as that.

Yeah, I'd agree. It's not so much that I don't like grouping, it's that my time is limited, and when I do have time I want to be able to log on, do something fun, and log off without having to deal with a group of 12 year olds to do it.

[Winnow]

Yeah, I'd agree. It's not so much that I don't like grouping, it's that my time is limited, and when I do have time I want to be able to log on, do something fun, and log off without having to deal with a group of 12 year olds to do it.

The part about the 12 year olds was addressed in an earlier post. Make the game challenging and you don't have the 12 year olds. They move on to WoW.

[Fairweather Pure]

My WoW guild is wonderful. We do not accept any applications for anyone under the age of 18. I think our youngest player is 20, and he's the only one. Our average age is easily in our 30's. We even have a couple of people in their 50's (including one women who is a grandma!). Other than that, any friend or family member of a guildmate can join. They are just not in our raiding roster. They are considered "friends of the guild". This way, people can group with their kids and play with close friends that cannot raid due to lack of time or plain old lack of skill. For the most part, we're all working people with families to tend. I'm surrounded by peers in terms of game dedication, family, and RL career goals.

The only 12 year olds I see are random PvP people. I pretty much only group with guildies though.

My online relationships in WoW far exceed anything that I had in EQ. Granted, being able to actually talk to people via Ventrilo makes it easier to make bonds (or break them!).

[Clatis]

nothing in main hand this http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=150 in secondary hand. you were the hotness. those were the days.

[Drinsic Darkwood]

BTC/PGT

[Funkmasterr]

My WoW guild is wonderful. We do not accept any applications for anyone under the age of 18. I think our youngest player is 20, and he's the only one. Our average age is easily in our 30's. We even have a couple of people in their 50's (including one women who is a grandma!). Other than that, any friend or family member of a guildmate can join. They are just not in our raiding roster. They are considered "friends of the guild". This way, people can group with their kids and play with close friends that cannot raid due to lack of time or plain old lack of skill. For the most part, we're all working people with families to tend. I'm surrounded by peers in terms of game dedication, family, and RL career goals.

The only 12 year olds I see are random PvP people. I pretty much only group with guildies though.

My online relationships in WoW far exceed anything that I had in EQ. Granted, being able to actually talk to people via Ventrilo makes it easier to make bonds (or break them!).

I think it would be fair to point out that your situation is rare. The average overall age for people playing that game is probably 16.

[Cotto]

The auction houses, they eliminate the social aspect of trading, bartering, making deals. No longer does it even exist that you make a purchase on credit of your good word or guild, then spend the next 2 weeks non stop farming in order to raise the funds needed to pay off your debt.

This was one thing that damn near broke my heart in EQ1 when Luclin came into being. I had one character up around level 20 for 6months to 1 year because I never left NFP, ever. I just traded bought and sold, then occasionally moseyed out for a bit of killing. God dammit I miss those days...

[Winnow]

EQ totally fucked up the social aspect of the game starting with Luclin/PoP.

The central trading locations went downhill. It felt like a ghost town. NFP was great. Even the trader spot in Luclin was OK for awhile before that went away as well.

The EQ developers forgot what was players valued in the game.

[Chidoro]

EQ worked because it wasn't trying to meet the lowest common denominator. It wasn't even expecting to get 100k subs, it just happened. Honestly, I played NWN ( at $2.95 a hour, jeez) until I got bored being a 10/11 ranger/wizard. Took about 4 months and a couple hundred dollars. I stared at the Meridian box every time I went to a CompUSA but never played. Never liked Ultima in any form so that was out. But then came EQ. I even looked at that box a month and a half too, but joined up in May '99. About 2 weeks after I began, they halved the death penalty. I was stuck on level 4 for hours until that change. Living on my own and single. Was able to sit all day if necessary and did on many occasions. It was a hardcore game for hardcore players. And you could easily tell a bad player from a good one. It was also like nothing ever before. Sure there were MMO's like the ones mentioned above, but there was nothing like EQ at the time. But that is why it worked for us, it was built for us.
I loved it. I couldn't and wouldn't ever play a game like it again. I don't think too many companies would back this type of project again either.

[Aslanna]

The Bazzar was, and is, the central trading location ever since it was introduced in Luclin. So I'm not sure what you are saying there. For trading purposes the Bazzar beats the pants off of sitting in NFP and spamming an auction (or whatever) every 30 seconds. If that's considered a social aspect I'd rather be considered a recluse then trying to sell stuff that way. The ability to sell crap while sleeping or doing more important things in your life? Brilliant!

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Only some rich private developer who does it on his own for the players. It's too big business now. Just like everything else.

[Funkmasterr]

The Bazzar was, and is, the central trading location ever since it was introduced in Luclin. So I'm not sure what you are saying there. For trading purposes the Bazzar beats the pants off of sitting in NFP and spamming an auction (or whatever) every 30 seconds. If that's considered a social aspect I'd rather be considered a recluse then trying to sell stuff that way. The ability to sell crap while sleeping or doing more important things in your life? Brilliant!

I think you are probably in the minority here (or at least you would have been at the time). Not that I'm surprised considering your posting history, and the fact that you don't even own a cell phone

The bazaar took the social aspect out of things, and I think it fucked the economy of the game too. Was it a smart move from a mass marketing standpoint to appeal to the more casual people? Hell yes. But not to their core of gamers.

[Aslanna]

Actually i think you're wrong. "At the time" there was no other alternative so that isn't even relevant. You either sold things that way or not at all. The only social aspect was having to type the stats everytime someone asked you or to say "No" when they asked if you'd accept half of what you were asking. At least now you can show actual item links so that's not bad. And hey guss what, people are still free to sit in the bazaar and do things that way if they want. There's nothing stopping them.

If anything I think it applies to the less casual rather than the more casual. After raiding 4 hours a day who wants to sit around trying to sell shit? I sure don't. I have like.. a life and stuff. You know sleeping, working, and other responsibilities that take a higher priority. If any player these days would rather sell things like they used to, depite any percieved social aspect, I'd question their sanity.

The whole point I was responding to was when Winnow stated "The central trading locations went downhill. It felt like a ghost town. NFP was great. Even the trader spot in Luclin was OK for awhile before that went away as well." which is totally untrue. There is a 'central trading location' and it's been the same for years. It hasn't gone away. So I'm wondering what trader spot in Luclin was being referred to.

Long distance instant travelling, over used and too convienient. In the old days, you needed to rely on social structures to make friends with teleporting classes... this was used as an income for those players and it added yet another level to the communications front to social gaming. In todays games, people have instant travel spells to "home", to cities, to other instances... too many.

Social structures to get a teleport? Really? Most people just did /ooc WTB Port to North Karana and then paid someone. Not a whole lof of social engineering required for that. While fine for a world the size of the original Norrath, when you start adding a lot more expansions and zones this simply isn't a feasible mode of transportation. There is nothing wrong with teleportation type travel. What, it's not realistic or something, in a game with like.. magic and stuff? Give me a break. I suppose you found begging for someone to bind you was a great way at social interaction as well. Oh wait being cleric you could bind yourself. That sure was convenient wasn't it? Or how about begging for a rez having to resort to sending tells to clerics if there were none in the zone? Or finally just sucking it up after an hour and just eating the death. Oh wait again.. You didn't have that problem.

This is really just another case of "Things sure were much nicer back in the day" when they really weren't. In many ways I'm glad "The Vision" is (mostly) dead.

Do you goto a concert to sit alone in a stadium and listen to the band on stage or do you go for the enviroment before, during and after the performance?

With the idiots that I've seen at the last few concerts I was at... If I had the opportunity to sit there by myself and you know, actually experience the music in an undistracting environment, I most surely would. Yeah I really want to interact with drunken retards who don't even have the common courtesy to shut the fuck up when the artist is talking...

[Funkmasterr]

Actually i think you're wrong. "At the time" there was no other alternative so that isn't even relevant. You either sold things that way or not at all. The only social aspect was having to type the stats everytime someone asked you or to say "No" when they asked if you'd accept half of what you were asking. At least now you can show actual item links so that's not bad. And hey guss what, people are still free to sit in the bazaar and do things that way if they want. There's nothing stopping them.

If anything I think it applies to the less casual rather than the more casual. After raiding 4 hours a day who wants to sit around trying to sell shit? I sure don't. I have like.. a life and stuff. You know sleeping, working, and other responsibilities that take a higher priority. If any player these days would rather sell things like they used to, depite any percieved social aspect, I'd question their sanity.

The whole point I was responding to was when Winnow stated "The central trading locations went downhill. It felt like a ghost town. NFP was great. Even the trader spot in Luclin was OK for awhile before that went away as well." which is totally untrue. There is a 'central trading location' and it's been the same for years. It hasn't gone away. So I'm wondering what trader spot in Luclin was being referred to.

Long distance instant travelling, over used and too convienient. In the old days, you needed to rely on social structures to make friends with teleporting classes... this was used as an income for those players and it added yet another level to the communications front to social gaming. In todays games, people have instant travel spells to "home", to cities, to other instances... too many.

Social structures to get a teleport? Really? Most people just did /ooc WTB Port to North Karana and then paid someone. Not a whole lof of social engineering required for that. While fine for a world the size of the original Norrath, when you start adding a lot more expansions and zones this simply isn't a feasible mode of transportation. There is nothing wrong with teleportation type travel. What, it's not realistic or something, in a game with like.. magic and stuff? Give me a break. I suppose you found begging for someone to bind you was a great way at social interaction as well. Oh wait being cleric you could bind yourself. That sure was convenient wasn't it? Or how about begging for a rez having to resort to sending tells to clerics if there were none in the zone? Or finally just sucking it up after an hour and just eating the death. Oh wait again.. You didn't have that problem.

This is really just another case of "Things sure were much nicer back in the day" when they really weren't. In many ways I'm glad "The Vision" is (mostly) dead.

Do you goto a concert to sit alone in a stadium and listen to the band on stage or do you go for the enviroment before, during and after the performance?

With the idiots that I've seen at the last few concerts I was at... If I had the opportunity to sit there by myself and you know, actually experience the music in an undistracting environment, I most surely would. Yeah I really want to interact with drunken retards who don't even have the common courtesy to shut the fuck up when the artist is talking...

Your generalizations are way off. Those pain in the ass things are what made the game what it was, period. Sure, present day with EQ having like 400 expansions your point holds more weight, but then again you are one of about 4 people on this board that still play the game or give half a shit about the mechanics and social structure of EQ in 2008.

[Winnow]

The Bazzar was, and is, the central trading location ever since it was introduced in Luclin. So I'm not sure what you are saying there. For trading purposes the Bazzar beats the pants off of sitting in NFP and spamming an auction (or whatever) every 30 seconds. If that's considered a social aspect I'd rather be considered a recluse then trying to sell stuff that way. The ability to sell crap while sleeping or doing more important things in your life? Brilliant!

I wasn't even referring to the trading at all. I'm talking about gathering places where you see other people without a raid being involved.

I liked my guilds but also enjoyed running into other people along the way. The Bazzar may still be the centra,l trading location but it was a ghost town when I walked through it the last time I logged on for a day briefly. Certainly not a place to see other people by chance.

Places people go to sell their shit after adventuring, buy resupplies, etc, and stop to chat before logging.

[Aslanna]

I wasn't even referring to the trading at all. I'm talking about gathering places where you see other people without a raid being involved.

That would pretty much be Guild Lobby these days. So yeah.. Still exists! A lot of them are probably AFK but not the point!

[Noysyrump]

The Bazzar was, and is, the central trading location ever since it was introduced in Luclin. So I'm not sure what you are saying there. For trading purposes the Bazzar beats the pants off of sitting in NFP and spamming an auction (or whatever) every 30 seconds. If that's considered a social aspect I'd rather be considered a recluse then trying to sell stuff that way. The ability to sell crap while sleeping or doing more important things in your life? Brilliant!

I wasn't even referring to the trading at all. I'm talking about gathering places where you see other people without a raid being involved.

I liked my guilds but also enjoyed running into other people along the way. The Bazzar may still be the centra,l trading location but it was a ghost town when I walked through it the last time I logged on for a day briefly. Certainly not a place to see other people by chance.

Places people go to sell their shit after adventuring, buy resupplies, etc, and stop to chat before logging.

"A day in the life of an EQ hardcorer"

So, after 6 hours of patching... and a couple computer restarts, i finally get the game running. Noysyrump enters the world. Apperantly last logged in the bazaar. Loading, Please Wait...

The screen brightens. I awake from my long slumber. Standing not 5 feet in front of me. Breagan. A friend from the old guild. First face I see is a familiar one! We converse, he welcomes me back. My friends list gains it's first update. A very good start.

I waddle off and figure I'd go have a look at the guild lobby. See if we can find more people.

Now my last name had been changed in honor of the Fiends, to Pyrefiend. So as I stand in the lobby sifting through the names of the /who list, desperatly looking for a familiar name. I get a tell.

"You were a Fiend?"

"Uhhh yup. One of the original 10 baby!"

Megadien offers you a trade.

Someone who apped the guild, but did not get an invite before it folded has taken it upon himself to adopt me and welcome me back to the game yet again. Friends list updated again. He poors all his "trash" dragonscale hills loots on me and my SK (later to come about the SK!) and I gain some much needed upgrades. Plane of time loots just dont come close to the new trash loots.

It took a couple of hours of frustrated attempts at remebering the pasword i had last set. Noysy was my account so I had them e-mail me a new PW, but Ironfoot I aquired from Raey when he quit the game. So I just kept inputting different versions of my "usual" password lists. Until I finally found it.

When he finally logged on, I imediatly used the patented zonewide "BURP" and was inundated with "OMG TOE!" tells.

In short. even with the insta travel, afk venders, soloability features of the new EQ, it still is a very social game. The core group of players who are still there often remeber fondly of the old world days and relish in the chance to swap stories ranging from "SGs near docks!" to "You remeber that time when we got Vindi to 1% before we wiped!"

You have less than 10 days to log back on and gain all the expansions for free. So what are you waiting on?

By the way. Cartalas is playing.



Names some of you might remeber.

ASSlanna - never responds to tells.
Bagar - apparently not the one we all love to hate here on VV.
Cartalas - is unbanned.
Nalaan - once the great FoH mage that I now relish in making feel inadequate.
Kyoukan - somones bot.
Fehm - always soloing, still tagged FoH.
Durew - Officer of pravusstorm (kratos)

Im sure i messed a whole lotta names you guys would/should know. But i cant think of em at the moment.

Kratos, Keepers of the Elements and Cestus Dei are still alive and well. Most other old school Veeshan guilds have gone the way of the Dodo however.

[Winnow]

That would pretty much be Guild Lobby these days. So yeah.. Still exists! A lot of them are probably AFK but not the point!

"Guild Lobby" sounds like it would be just for members of the guild!

Say hi to Cart for me Nosy!

[Noysyrump]

That would pretty much be Guild Lobby these days. So yeah.. Still exists! A lot of them are probably AFK but not the point!

"Guild Lobby" sounds like it would be just for members of the guild!

Say hi to Cart for me Nosy!

The lobby is for everyone. The hall is instanced just for your guild.

And I did say Hi from all of you to Cart.

[Funkmasterr]

You know, when I get a new HD and actually have some space on my PC, I just might install EQ1 and give it another shot.

[Canelek]

EQ2 has an outdated engine also! I really enjoy playing. Lots of CT folks from veeshan too.

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

With corpse recoveries (items poofing on your body if you didn't loot it in time) and xp-loss when dying (even possible to lose many levels!) you really needed people to be able to drag your bod to safety / summon your corpse / helping you fight and clear the area / cleric with xp-rez.

Imagine these factors in today's MMORPG's with the younger crowd, there would be several meltdowns a la the german kid and roidrages all over the servers!

[Siji]

Quick summary, we had time back then. We don't have it (or the patience) now to do what we did then. It was part of the point to make friends so that when you needed a res you could send tells to people half a world away to come help. Or if you wiped in Fear, you could call in backup. Because you know, that bank full of backup armor for going in and getting your bodies was really crap.. The game has changed, you move on with it if you still like it or you don't.

I do miss being nervous exploring new areas. These days, so you die.. it's a few hundred plat to get your corpse and a couple /ooc's in the guild lobby for a res. Whoopdidoo..

There won't be a game like Verant's EQ again. Vanguard could have been in the ballpark, but look how that turned out. Money rules.

[cid]

I miss sitting in NFP and shutting the bank door on people.

[miir]

Vanguard could have been in the ballpark, but look how that turned out. Money rules.

Vanguard is/was nothing like the original EQ.

[Toshira]

The paradigm has shifted, you just didn't shift with it. There will never be a non-niche (think sub-25k subs) that repeats the misery that was the EQ cleric while making that class so necessary to the end-game. You can babble all you want about "ye goode auld dayes," but the majority of people aren't willing to tolerate that shit for something that is supposed to be entertainment or a hobby.

Um, I enjoyed being a cleric....

You also like being spanked roughly, too...

Masochist!

[Seebs]

Blame it on having kids now - but there is something to be said for earning things instead of having them given to you.

My cleric hit 50 in Karnors Castle, left hall before you zoned in. Why do I remember this so clearly? It was a major achievement for me and took a year or two.

Part of the magic for me was not knowing everything the game held. I discovered Allakazham and found drop tables - kind of took some thrill out of it. I loved the unknown. That will never occur again with any game - too much info out there.

I'm obviously in the minority but I enjoyed playing my cleric immensely. I did not mind having to run through several zones - 20 minutes, to get somewhere. I did not mind spawn camps. I loved NFP and the auctions.

If there had to be changes, making all items lore or making it so that you would have at least kill the mob that dropped the item before you equipped an item would have been more fair.

I miss the sounds of the game - the nat sounds of Misty Thicket, the Kithkor Forest darkness broken up by the cackle if something horrible chasing you. I miss Trains - the skill one needed to avoid them, the love of the click stick when one wiped a party.

I loved only having an hour to play and offering free rezzes - and traveling 45 minutes with someone rezzing them and logging out -

I don;t know - I get all nostalgic on this, but this game was some of the best gaming experince of my life - even with the 15 hour CR in Fear and strolling into work with equally tired Marbus and Grimlock.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I don;t know - I get all nostalgic on this, but this game was some of the best gaming experince of my life - even with the 15 hour CR in Fear and strolling into work with equally tired Marbus and Grimlock.

That night will live in me memory forever. That and the painfully long ragefire camps making drawings out of copper on the ground and taking SS's.

[Noysyrump]

I walked in on my brother one night... sittin in his chair, had a blanket over him, and dozing at the comp... I was like "wtf" and he said "campin ragefire", wow the good ole days.

It WAS the hard shit in this game that made it the best evah.

[Aslanna]

Camping a spawn for hours and hours isn't "hard". It's just tedious and boring.

[Noysyrump]

Camping a spawn for hours and hours isn't "hard". It's just tedious and boring.

No having to deal with the tedious and boring shit in order to gain something (such as a cleric epic) was what was hard, and it gave one a sense of accomplishment you cant get with todays games that hand everything over on a plater to anyone and everyone.

Hell it took me damn near a year to finish that ghey ass mage epic, but when I did finish it the payoff wasn't the super pet that could solo everythin, it was the "yeh I did it" I could tell myself...

Now, even in eq, it takes 2 days and at most, 2 people to get an "epic" quest done. There is no longer that sense of accomplisment. Yes a lot of old EQ could be considered boring, tedious, lame etc., but it made the good moments all that much better.

Having my group break up so close to 50 in guk, and staying online soloing for what turned out to be multiple hours just to finally ding 50 will be a lot more memorable than the very forgetable and more recent "accomplisment" of hitting level 80. Because it was just too fukin easy.

[Winnow]

Now, even in eq, it takes 2 days and at most, 2 people to get an "epic" quest done. There is no longer that sense of accomplisment. Yes a lot of old EQ could be considered boring, tedious, lame etc., but it made the good moments all that much better.

Having my group break up so close to 50 in guk, and staying online soloing for what turned out to be multiple hours just to finally ding 50 will be a lot more memorable than the very forgetable and more recent "accomplisment" of hitting level 80. Because it was just too fukin easy.

Good points Nosy. The original EQ epic quests were a bitch and required lots of help from your guild or friends (most of them, some were easier than others (monk/rogue but still required help). I passed on my shaman epic for a long time, and didn't get it until I had been in CT for quite awhile. It wasn't a great epic but getting it was overall more rewarding than getting my Time's Antithesis from PoP which was the end all be all of shaman weapons. (I paid some DKPs for that, which I suppose is rewarding but not like the original Epic)

I'm surprised Aslanna is complaining since Bahnanna was one of the few in Obsidian Guard to take the time to get the VP key. (which myself, Aslanna and Zeepnome got and then bolted to CT after it was clear OG was going to stay a social guild and not work toward some end game content)

I can remember camping Haden (the fisherdood that dropped the Fishbone earring, camping gnolls at the entrance to BB, trying to get level 11 or 12, the first time I soloed a baby mammoth, camping the mammoth cloak which was worthless but had some +Wisdom in the early days, getting a full set of Rubicite, my first big quest to get The Staff of the Observers and the original FoH guild leader helping me out on it...and some of these camps were a bitch to get to making it even more rewarding. Even though I spent days camping the named tree in Southern Karana, there was still something about running around that mostly empty zone (in the northern part) in the rain that was enjoyable on a Sunday afternoon. A lot more patience was required, the risk was higher, and events on the server were worthy of flamewars on this very board. Even small events like the drama between Obsidian Overlords (Voronwe) and The Dark Sun near the ramp on Live side Guk made for fun times. Not so much with new games. Ho hum.

[Aslanna]

Now, even in eq, it takes 2 days and at most, 2 people to get an "epic" quest done. There is no longer that sense of accomplisment. Yes a lot of old EQ could be considered boring, tedious, lame etc., but it made the good moments all that much better.

That's because characters are higher level and geared better and the spawns aren't camped much anymore. Of course it doesn't take that long. They were made for characters many expansions ago not for those of today.

[Seebs]

The fact that Marbus talked for 7 hours at work about getting the Shiny Brass Halberd is testimony enough on how this game changed our miserable lives - because I drank in every word of his uber exploits.

We camped the Charred Guardian SHield next - several hours and some guy joined our Crimson Guard group - just three of us, and looted the shield from the mob and logged - He said nothing dropped - the bastard. This was 1999 and I still remember that asshole -

Oh .. .loved being the first one back in after an Unrest train to loot some mobs for SS - I remember the first time someone trained the Hand - I shat myself - the discovery was incredible.

[Xyun]

I have so many great memories from that game. My fondest were the steamrolls and ensuing flamefests. I never did much farming or camping, and took forever to get my epic, but the guild vs. guild adventures or group vs. group shit. The AE groups in Sebilis and the Deep with that gay enchanter dude (who's name escapes me) and Masumy. My favorite thing in the whole game ever was when I got MANABURN! My best memory is when I was in a group of 5 wizards (Raistin, Brittney, and a few names I forget) and a bard, and we steamrolled OG on Gorenaire with manaburn. They'd been setting up for it for while, we teleport in, have the bard kite/pull, Manaburn, loot, get out. lololol.

I think there are two factors in this discussion, how games have changed, and how we, the EQ community has changed since EQ. I don't think it is fair to say that today's games don't hold the same grandeur for some people as EQ did for us, because I have a very good friend who is into WoW in the same way that I was into EQ. He discovered the genre differently, and the discovery of the genre itself is what often provides the love for the game and the nostalgia. EQ was the groundbreaking MMORPG and it will hold its place in gaming history as one of the best ever. But let's not forget how many times Sony fucked us or really really fucking pissed us off. I remember quitting the game a few times because of my hate for stupid shit sony would do. Objectively, I consider WoW a better designed game than EQ.

I'm no longer a gamer, not even a casual gamer. The last game I played seriously was Ogame. I tried to play WoW again about 2 months ago and it bored me to death. I'm pretty sure I will never again devote that kind of time to an MMORPG. Right now I'm looking forward to starcraft 2, but I'm not even sure I'll play that, even though I've played all of the warcraft/starcraft games incessantly upon release.

It comes down to getting older, and shifting priorities from virtual world goals to real world goals. If the same amount of ambition is applied... well... let's just say I'm a level 31 blogger, and I'm already thinking about my epic.