Box office revenue grew to $27 billion in 2007

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 9, 2008, 8:47 pm

Your mother's a whore!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 9, 2008, 8:56 pm

Don't care.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 9, 2008, 9:07 pm

We need a Pirate Appreciation Day.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 9, 2008, 9:17 pm

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 9, 2008, 9:28 pm

Fash wrote:Don't care.

You only don't care, because the media tells you not to care.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 9, 2008, 9:51 pm

Fash wrote:Your logic sucks worse, Miir. All of those things you mentioned are physical property. It's an entirely different realm from digital content.

No one that is advocating piracy here would support theft. It seems impossible to get through your thick skulls that piracy is not theft, so you can't compare them without looking like a fucking retard.

You're good at that though.

One last time... Piracy helps the market. Piracy is at all time highs, and so are profits.

hehe, and your logic was using things that could cause PHYSICAL INJURY!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 9, 2008, 9:53 pm

No my logic was based on the legality of it, and none of the things I said had anything to do with injury in the way I intended them, but you're free to take it out of context all day long. I believe he breaks other laws, so I pointed out his hypocrisy in judging someone... on top of accusing someone of the wrong crime.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 9, 2008, 10:53 pm

Before piracy became more widespread, we would see yearly increases in box office revenues from 8-10%

Since then....

2003 0.2% growth
2004 2.5% growth
2005 6.1% drop
2006 4.2% growth
2007 4.8% growth

Ticket prices have increased 20% from 2002 to 2007 but revenue is only up 6%

The top 10 movies in 2007 accounted for 30% of total box office revenues.

Ticket sales have been on a steady decline since 2002.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 9, 2008, 10:55 pm

I could post revenue and sales figures on the other form of entertainment that has been effected by piracy....
But I doubt you'd want me to do that.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 9, 2008, 11:26 pm

That's because going to the movies sucks. If you have half a clue about home theater, and it doesn't take a bucket of money for the low end stuff, staying at home is much better than going to the movies. It has nothing to do with piracy.

Someone gave me a movie card during the holiday season. I could go to the next 10 or so movies for free but I won't. I don't like dealing with poorly focused, screwed up audio, obnoxious people, loud kids, phones, sick people, unknown substances on the seats, lines, find parking spots, wasted travel time..it goes on and on.

Screw going to the movies. It has zero to do with piracy. DVD quality blows. If I'm going to pay for it, I'd wait for it to be in HD on HBO or buy a Blu Ray...although I'd still rather download the HD content directly off the newsgroups instead of have to deal with physical media.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 1:57 am

Not everyone is a reclusive shut-in...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 10, 2008, 2:33 am

Even social dynamos like you can come up with better places to go than the movies when the snow clears I hope.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » March 10, 2008, 2:57 am

I agree, going to the movies sucks ass.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 10, 2008, 9:50 am

miir wrote:Before piracy became more widespread, we would see yearly increases in box office revenues from 8-10%

Since then....

2003 0.2% growth
2004 2.5% growth
2005 6.1% drop
2006 4.2% growth
2007 4.8% growth

Ticket prices have increased 20% from 2002 to 2007 but revenue is only up 6%

The top 10 movies in 2007 accounted for 30% of total box office revenues.

Ticket sales have been on a steady decline since 2002.

I wonder how this coincides with DVD sales and rentals? Isn't this also about the time that Netflix came into power? I know that around 2004ish, my parents bought thier home theater system, complete with bigscreen, receiver, and surround sound. It's a low end system, but my parent's are a good test of the average joe. They just bought a plasma about 6 months ago too. My father in law just bought and LCD about a year ago as well. People are upgrading thier home set ups, this much is certian.

I don't think the average joe even likes going to the theater anymore. My sizeable peer group have all stopped going except for once or twice a year. We all usually all go together. IMAX only. Anything else would be better at home. Since we all have our respective home theaters now, it just seems silly to pay 15$ a ticket, not to mention snacks. Wait 3 months and it will be on DVD. Of course, that may have a lot to do with our age and income levels now. We all own houses and have started families. I'm sure we're no longer the optimal demographic for the movie going public.

Theaters are thier own worst enemies. The public is a random equation that usually fucks everything up.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 10, 2008, 10:40 am

I have gone to more movies in the theater in recent years, but I only go to the Alamo Drafthouse. I can have tickets and a MEAL (not snacks) for the same $15 you mention spending on a ticket. The environment rocks, children are not allowed except for certain shows/showtimes, there is a bar in the lobby, the food rocks, and you can see about anything that is out (or not out) in one of the locations around town. They have started to branch out with more franchise-type locations, so spend a little cash and bring your town some of the fun!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 10, 2008, 12:23 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
miir wrote:Ticket sales have been on a steady decline since 2002.
I wonder how this coincides with DVD sales and rentals?

Now now. Let's not jump to conclusions. It's obviously due to piracy that box office revenue is down. The numbers clearly show the decline is directly proportional to the piracy rate.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 10, 2008, 12:40 pm

Aslanna wrote: Now now. Let's not jump to conclusions. It's obviously due to piracy that box office revenue is down. The numbers clearly show the decline is directly proportional to the piracy rate.

I was going to ignore miir's silliness but you're right, that's no fun... I'd love to see estimates on piracy, I just don't think there is any accurate way of reporting it, nor do I think it has increased in any significance over the past decade. Actually, since the Napster boom, it may have declined.

Like many things, there is a barrier to entry. A pirate need be more technically savvy than the average computer user.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 10, 2008, 1:15 pm

Fash wrote:Like many things, there is a barrier to entry. A pirate need be more technically savvy than the average computer user.

hehe, not really. A person I know very well basically ran a business of selling bootleg movies in the ghetto. She would sell the discs for 5-10 bucks. Beyond downloading and burning, she knew jack about computers.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 1:20 pm

I think it's funny that Winnow can make some fucking ludicrous claim that piracy is somehow helping box office revenues and you fuckwits totally agree with him... but when I actually put the figures into historical perspective I'm the one who is silly?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 10, 2008, 1:34 pm

miir wrote:I think it's funny that Winnow can make some fucking ludicrous claim that piracy is somehow helping box office revenues and you fuckwits totally agree with him... but when I actually put the figures into historical perspective I'm the one who is silly?

Funny I didn't say I agreed to anything of the sort. I just think your numbers don't show shit other than the fact that growth doesn't follow previous trends. My point was that all sorts of things could contribute to that and not just piracy as you seem to be indicating.

Fuckwit.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 10, 2008, 1:37 pm

lol he shows revenue growth to claim that ticket sales are down.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 1:51 pm

Zamtuk wrote:lol he shows revenue growth to claim that ticket sales are down.

Having a tough time comprehending those big numbers?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 10, 2008, 1:55 pm

Zamtuk wrote:lol he shows revenue growth to claim that ticket sales are down.

Except he starts it out with "Before piracy became more widespread" which is even more ludicrous than his wholly unscientific claim that less ticket sales equal more piracy. Piracy has always been widespread... Today, as I did in 1985, I have more pirated material than I can use... It has always been the rule, not the exception.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 10, 2008, 1:58 pm

Fash wrote:
Zamtuk wrote:lol he shows revenue growth to claim that ticket sales are down.
Except he starts it out with "Before piracy became more widespread" which is even more ludicrous than his wholly unscientific claim that less ticket sales equal more piracy. Piracy has always been widespread... Today, as I did in 1985, I have more pirated material than I can use... It has always been the rule, not the exception.

You are not the rule.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 2:06 pm

Piracy DID start to become more prevalent around 2002/2003. This coincided with the widespread availability of high-speed internet in north america.
Weather or not the decline in movie revenues and ticket sales is a coincidence or directly related is certainly up for discussion... but to claim that a marginal increase in revenue in 2007 is proof that piracy is helping the movie industry is right fucking loony.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 10, 2008, 2:07 pm

miir wrote:
Zamtuk wrote:lol he shows revenue growth to claim that ticket sales are down.
Having a tough time comprehending those big numbers?

I can comprehend them quite fine, you stupid fuck. Can you? Please don't take into account inflation of ticket prices into peoples reasons on not going, blame it entirely on piracy dated back to some bullshit non verified time that you literally pulled out of your ass, to make a point you can't even backup. There are plenty of reasons to not go to movies, not just piracy. You cut/pasting some dumbass set of figures with nothing more than a 'neener neener piracy is killing our ticket sales', proves nothing.

Piracy DID start to become more prevalent around 2002/2003. This coincided with the widespread availability of high-speed internet in north america.
Weather or not the decline in movie revenues and ticket sales is a coincidence or directly related is certainly up for discussion... but to claim that a marginal increase in revenue in 2007 is proof that piracy is helping the movie industry is right fucking loony

source that claim or shut the fuck up.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 2:15 pm

Please don't take into account inflation of ticket prices into peoples reasons on not going

Ticket prices have been increasing at a steady rate since the 80s.

source that claim or shut the fuck up.

That information is not exactly hidden.
Learn to google.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 10, 2008, 2:16 pm

Both the music and movie industry are anything but constant. Thier product changes from year to year, so it's really difficult to keep doing comparisons to previous years. I still remember when the music industry was crying because profits were down 7-8% over the previous year, when the previous year set a record high. Both industries will work the figures to make themselves a victim when it suits thier interest.

If hollywood made more movies that I wanted to see at the theater, I would go see them. Last year had 2. This year, it's looking like a 3-4 so far. Music is an even easier fix. It just needs to be cheaper. NiN's last release at 5$ was the first music I have paid for in the past 5 or 6 years. Five bucks is worth it. Nothing more. I'll just keep DLing it if it's more than that. The price of DVDs is decent at 15$ for a new release. 30$ for a Blu Ray is ass rape IMO and I will never pay that. I'll start DLing those too.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 10, 2008, 2:27 pm

I guess the sad truth is that instead of taking a cue from piracy and making their products more accessible and affordable (hello digital distribution), they'll play the victim, restrict their paying customers in more ways, and spend loads of profits on legal fees... all while not even making a dent in piracy. Win!!!1

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 10, 2008, 2:29 pm

Fair touched on something I wanted to but didn't. Radiohead and more recently NIN seemed to have tapped into the piracy market for revenue. Putting your cd on thepiratebay.org is a great way to viral market and increase revenues. Wes Andersen did it with Hotel Chevelier and the Darjeeling Limited. I'm quite positive that the sight of Natalie Portman naked sold a few more tickets. I believe miir said that piracy couldnt increase revenue though....

miir wrote:
source that claim or shut the fuck up.
That information is not exactly hidden.
Learn to google.

LOL. This coming from the one who has to be spoon fed simple information. You're to make a claim that piracy started booming 5 years ago without a source and show us just 5 years of information without showing any other data to compare it to and try to pawn it off as logical and coherent. Then you say google it to find out. What the fuck is the point of having this argument if your only backing is 'uh, look it up, i'm right'.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 10, 2008, 2:55 pm

I dunno about the rest of you but I've been downloading albums for nearly 15 years now...I don't know where the 5 year thing is coming from.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 3:09 pm

Nick wrote:I dunno about the rest of you but I've been downloading albums for nearly 15 years now...I don't know where the 5 year thing is coming from.

15 years?
That's not an exaggeration at all.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 3:15 pm

Nick wrote:I don't know where the 5 year thing is coming from.

High speed internet proliferation and the introduction of Bit Torrent happened roughly 5-6 years ago.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 10, 2008, 3:20 pm

miir wrote:
Nick wrote:I dunno about the rest of you but I've been downloading albums for nearly 15 years now...I don't know where the 5 year thing is coming from.
15 years?
That's not an exaggeration at all.

Um, no. I was in "First year" (not first year of school, first year of "high school" in school at age 10, that was 1996, I'm 24 now, and was downloading albums in first year. Nirvana and Tool being stuff that comes to mind. That's at least 14 years ago, so hardly an exaggeration.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 10, 2008, 3:22 pm

It might be an exaggeration for him, but it's not for me. In 1993 I was downloading music off IRC. Even years before that it would've been possible with BBS access (though I never saw much music on them back then, just software), or he could mean simply copying the real CD's.

High speed and torrents do not necessarily increase piracy... The high-speed argument is destroyed by the increase in the size of data being pirated (with the exception of music), along with the counter argument that speed in itself does not increase piracy, it only increases the speed of piracy.

Torrents became a way to decentralize and get away from the hidden warez outposts.. It did open the community a bit and perhaps made it easy enough for some people who would not have been involved, to get involved.

I don't think it was that big of an increase, but because it is so decentralized and relatively safe, it's more public facing. It's not hiding anymore.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 3:27 pm

Putting your cd on thepiratebay.org is a great way to viral market and increase revenues. Wes Andersen did it with Hotel Chevelier and the Darjeeling Limited. I'm quite positive that the sight of Natalie Portman naked sold a few more tickets. I believe miir said that piracy couldnt increase revenue though....

Wasn't Darjeeling Limited pretty much an unqualified failure?
It had a budget of 18 million and didn't even make 12 million.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 3:34 pm

High speed and torrents do not necessarily increase piracy... The high-speed argument is destroyed by the increase in the size of data being pirated (with the exception of music), along with the counter argument that speed in itself does not increase piracy, it only increases the speed of piracy.

Are you fucking dense?
Who the fuck would want to download DVD quality (4-5 gigs) movies via a modem?
Bit Torrent made pirating/theft accessable to people who would normally be intimidated by IRC and Usenet.

I don't think it was that big of an increase, but because it is so decentralized and relatively safe, it's more public facing. It's not hiding anymore.

LOL, you're fucking delusional if you don't think that piracy has spread like wildfire in the past 5 years.
My brother-in-law who has never owned a computer up until last year is downloading movies non-stop.
I work with people who two years ago didn't know how to use anything but MS Office who are asking me what are some good torrent sites are for downloading movies. I had a guy ask me last month about downloading movies from usenet.

Computer savy people have been downloading shit for ages.... but this really isn't about that demographic.
Piracy is widespread and mainstream now.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 10, 2008, 3:43 pm

It might be an exaggeration for him, but it's not for me.

Except its not?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 3:50 pm

I'm done on this thread....

I'll leave you guys to brag amongst yourselves about how long you've been stealing (pirating) shit and trying to justify how your theft (piracy) is actually helping the music and film industry.

Enjoy!!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 10, 2008, 3:51 pm

miir wrote:Computer savy people have been downloading shit for ages.... but this really isn't about that demographic.
Piracy is widespread and mainstream now.

Whatever, dude! Revenue is still up!

Even this wildly increased piracy you speak of isn't hurting anyone.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 10, 2008, 4:01 pm

miir wrote:
Putting your cd on thepiratebay.org is a great way to viral market and increase revenues. Wes Andersen did it with Hotel Chevelier and the Darjeeling Limited. I'm quite positive that the sight of Natalie Portman naked sold a few more tickets. I believe miir said that piracy couldnt increase revenue though....
Wasn't Darjeeling Limited pretty much an unqualified failure?
It had a budget of 18 million and didn't even make 12 million.

Most people in the industry blame the attempted suicide of Owen Wilson to hurting the ticket sales to that particular movie, FWIW.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 10, 2008, 4:09 pm

Nick wrote:
miir wrote:
Nick wrote:I dunno about the rest of you but I've been downloading albums for nearly 15 years now...I don't know where the 5 year thing is coming from.
15 years?
That's not an exaggeration at all.

Um, no. I was in "First year" (not first year of school, first year of "high school" in school at age 10, that was 1996, I'm 24 now, and was downloading albums in first year. Nirvana and Tool being stuff that comes to mind. That's at least 14 years ago, so hardly an exaggeration.

but 1996 was just 12 years ago...what math do they teach there?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 10, 2008, 4:21 pm

Technology boosts movie industry box office sales
11:02AM, Wednesday 7th March 2007

Global box-office sales totalled a record $25.8 billion in 2006, casting new doubts on the movie industry's insistence on the detrimental effect of 'piracy'.

The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) annual report shows that the record figure was an 11 per cent increase on 2005. Sixty-three films grossed more than $50 million, a 12.5 per cent increase on 2005 with one film, 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest', adding more than $400 million to Hollywood's coffers.

Article from a year ago.. But it doesn't really correspond to miir's positon... I doesn't really agree with the numbers below either so who knows!

And something more recent:

Despite massive campaigns to inform the public of the dangers of piracy and its effect on the world economies, the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) has posted on their website that 2007 saw new all-time highs for both domestic and global box office sales. The global box office hit an all-time high last year, according to an annual report released by the Motion Picture Association of America Wednesday. According to statistics released by the Motion Picture Association of America, U.S. box office receipts rose in 2007 by more than 5% to a new all time high.

I'd also like to see the numbers that show an average of 8%-10% revenue increases per year that miir states. I did a bit of looking but all I could find so far were US totals (provided by the MPAA themselves):

year - %change over previous year

2007 5.4%
2006 3.5%
2005 -4.2%
2004 0.5%
2003 -1.2%
2002 14.1%
2001 8.8%
2000 2.1%
1999 8.2%
1998 8.8%
1997 6.9%
1996 10.4%
1995 1.6%
1994 5.9%
1993 7.3%
1992 1.1%

If you take the period before miir's numbers (1992-2002) you only come out to a 6.8% average. omg piracy was so rampant in 1992, 1995 and 2000.

Oh the power of Google. Thanks for the suggestion miir! Although I guess it doesn't matter as miir has thown down the "I'm done with this thread" instead of providing actual facts to back up what is being said. Which isn't possible because it's all just guesses and estimates.

Having said all that I don't disagree that studios do lose money to piracy / counterfeiting. I'm not really in the camp that says piracy helps the industry but I don't think it hurts it as much as they are trying to claim either.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 10, 2008, 4:44 pm

50% movie piracy from Canada: Hollywood

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national ... 7923bc1f6b

As much as 50 per cent of the world's pirated movies come from Canada, prompting the film industry to threaten to delay the release of new titles in this country.

According to an investigation by Twentieth Century Fox, most of the illegal recording, or "camcording," is taking place in Montreal movie houses, taking advantage of bilingual releases and lax copyright laws.

If you want to make a difference, the first step is to clean up your own country! You stole our TV for years with hacked DirecTV cards!

"Canada's lax border measures appear to permit the importation of pirated products from East Asia, Pakistan and Russia. A co-ordinate national program targeting importation of counterfeit goods at all major Canadian ports of entry is needed."

Piracy? Blame Canada

http://kotaku.com/gaming/pirates/piracy ... 236686.php

Canada, huh? Who would have guessed. There they were, parading around with their funny policeman's hats and their mountains and their "eh" at the end of every sentence - little did we know they're actually all wicked, evil, cold-blooded criminals. Pirates, even. And not the jolly kind, like Crecente. The bad kind.

Canada remains far behind virtually all of its peers in the industrialized world with respect to its efforts to bring its copyright laws up to date with the realities of the global digital networked environment. Indeed, even the major developing countries have progressed further and faster than Canada in meeting the challenge.

And still the movie industry increased it's revenue! (no thanks to Canada)

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 10, 2008, 5:02 pm

Boogahz wrote:but 1996 was just 12 years ago...what math do they teach there?

Hehe, I guess 1996 was the year I went to the USA for the summer (an event i tie in with the year of first year) - I suppose i joined first year in Autumn 1995 until the summer 96. That's around 13 years. I was already downloading by then. I'm fairly sure I was downloading stuff the summer before that too, but it doesn't matter too much. What matters is that I don't exactly think 15 years counts as "OMG EXAGGERATION SYBNDROME LAWL" - and anyone pushing the issue as that doesn't understand what "exaggeration" actually means and is a fucking moron who is being contrary for no reason other than to mistakenly think it helps their whiney point that piracy is so morally evil and we who do it should feel bad for all the affected middle men millionaires.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » March 10, 2008, 5:24 pm

Hell, you buy a DVD and have to sit through the unskippable anti-pirating ads on some titles. Fuck those cocksmokers.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 10, 2008, 5:34 pm

If you take the period before miir's numbers (1992-2002) you only come out to a 6.8% average.

If you take the period after miir's numbers (2002-2007) you come out to a 0.8% average.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 10, 2008, 5:42 pm

There's also a war going on. That might have something to do with all these declines in movie theater numbers.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 10, 2008, 6:00 pm

You can't really call it a "war" when there's only one side occupying another.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 10, 2008, 6:00 pm

Call it whatever you want. That's not the issue.