Gary Gygax- RIP

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 4, 2008, 2:29 pm

http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Even DM's can die?

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 4, 2008, 2:33 pm

Gary Gygax, father of Dungeons & Dragons died today in his home.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 4, 2008, 2:35 pm

Finally a death that's newsworthy.

What a bummer.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » March 4, 2008, 2:44 pm

Ah man.

I haven't played that for years, but I still have fond memories. Not just D&D though, if it weren't for his ideas, we may not have seen such a wealth of electronic fantasy gaming as we have enjoyed over the years.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 4, 2008, 2:46 pm

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... =1&t=22360

Need a merge!

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 4, 2008, 2:47 pm

I was in first!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 4, 2008, 2:48 pm

I support Pherr's claim although it should have been in Current Events!

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 4, 2008, 2:50 pm

And Bob Bledsaw (Judges Guild founder) has terminal cancer. Man, the old guard is falling.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 4, 2008, 2:59 pm

Those were the days when your imagination was the most important part of the game.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 4, 2008, 4:05 pm

Tips a Mountain Dew in his memory.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » March 4, 2008, 4:28 pm

Rez plz

Al · Post by Al » March 4, 2008, 6:04 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_en_ot/obit_gygax

I don't know about you guys, but I played quite a bit of D&D growing up, and I still play occasionally. His passing makes me want to throw a quick adventure together just to say good bye.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 4, 2008, 6:06 pm

This is the third thread on this topic... awesome, since I didn't know who he was the first time, now I'll never forget him.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 4, 2008, 7:44 pm

A wizard did it

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 4, 2008, 8:11 pm

Tips another Mountain Dew.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 4, 2008, 8:23 pm

Drops some Funyuns on the floor in his memory.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 4, 2008, 8:36 pm

I wanna cast Magic Missile!

.. at the darkness.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 4, 2008, 8:55 pm

An amazing number of positive comments in appreciation of Gygax:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/03/04/obit ... pstoryview

(expand the comments at the bottom)

This comment sums up mine:

Thanks for showing us our own imagination is better than any book or movie ever made.

And a less serious one:

The vicious beatings I received after touching my older brother's 1st edition D&D books taught me that Gary Gygax was a special guy.

This would be a good time for the slackers out there that haven't watched the movie, "Gamerz" to do so!

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » March 4, 2008, 9:39 pm

Raises a glass of very strong Ice Tea in memoriam...

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 5, 2008, 12:03 am

Sad.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 5, 2008, 12:17 am

Fash wrote:This is the third thread on this topic

They're cheating and keep rerolling the dice trying to come up with a different ending.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » March 5, 2008, 12:34 am

Arborealus wrote:Raises a glass of very strong Ice Tea in memoriam...

Ice Tea +1?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 5, 2008, 1:23 am

Fash wrote:This is the third thread on this topic... awesome, since I didn't know who he was the first time, now I'll never forget him.

Not that everyone should know everyone.. But surprising that someone who played a game like EQ for years didn't at least know of the contributions made by Gary and co.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » March 5, 2008, 10:12 am

His game introduced me to the world of fantasy, that is something I will always be greatful for.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 5, 2008, 12:21 pm

He actually play tested his Slave Pits series with our gaming group in Lake Geneva in the basement of a hobby shop called the Dungeon. He was a pretty cool guy, at least when I met him, and a great DM.

Ernest Gary Gygax (July 27, 1938 – March 4, 2008) was an American writer and game designer, best known for co-creating the pioneering role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) with Dave Arneson, and co-founding the company Tactical Studies Rules with Don Kaye in 1974. Gygax is generally acknowledged as the father of the role-playing game.[2]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/arts/ ... ref=slogin

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » March 5, 2008, 12:25 pm

good grief. What does this make now? 5 seperate threads.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 5, 2008, 12:25 pm

I guess no one actually reads this message board anymore. This is the 5th thread on this topic in 2 days?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 5, 2008, 12:26 pm

I guess no one actually reads this message board anymore.

CAN I HAVE A MOUNTAIN DEW?

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 5, 2008, 12:27 pm

Trek wrote:His game introduced me to the world of fantasy, that is something I will always be greatful for.

He introduced the world of fantasy to gaming, something we should all be grateful for, given the demographic of this board.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 5, 2008, 12:32 pm

Yuppers sorry about that. Please delete this thread.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 5, 2008, 12:42 pm

I merged all of them I could find under one topic. Maybe next time, to avoid confusion, the rest of you should include his name in the topic like Pherr did!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 5, 2008, 1:13 pm

D&D (the original) introduced me to my love for statistics and number crunching which overflowed into all areas of interest.

I've seen some comments on other boards about Gygax saying they didn't play the game much but loved reading the manuals. I did play the game in the most nerdy of fashions in high school and college but also enjoyed reading the manuals simply to digest all the stats. I do think pen and paper role playing had an overall bad rap. I never had a problem with playing these games as well as going out to bars, socializing, or being involved in sports, etc. Comics, DnD and C-64 made for quite a geek power punch, yet I survived!

The only difference between present day and back then is that there isn't such a disparity between males and females that are geeks*, into gaming (PC/Console), comics, and other traditionally male nerd hobbies. I attribute a lot of that to MMOs and the general breakdown of predefined roles associated to a specific gender.

To get back on topic, Gygax/DnD was more than just a game for many. It was a mind expanding gateway for some that opened up other areas of interest.

*with the term geek being viewed a much more positive way these days.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 5, 2008, 1:46 pm

Puts another Mountain Dew stain into the carpet.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 5, 2008, 3:35 pm

Winnow wrote:D&D (the original) introduced me to my love for statistics and number crunching which overflowed into all areas of interest.

I've seen some comments on other boards about Gygax saying they didn't play the game much but loved reading the manuals. I did play the game in the most nerdy of fashions in high school and college but also enjoyed reading the manuals simply to digest all the stats. I do think pen and paper role playing had an overall bad rap. I never had a problem with playing these games as well as going out to bars, socializing, or being involved in sports, etc. Comics, DnD and C-64 made for quite a geek power punch, yet I survived!

The only difference between present day and back then is that there isn't such a disparity between males and females that are geeks*, into gaming (PC/Console), comics, and other traditionally male nerd hobbies. I attribute a lot of that to MMOs and the general breakdown of predefined roles associated to a specific gender.

To get back on topic, Gygax/DnD was more than just a game for many. It was a mind expanding gateway for some that opened up other areas of interest.

*with the term geek being viewed a much more positive way these days.

That's a fantastic post. I always had a fancy for numbers (hence the subsequent actuarial degree), so for me the manuals and rules strengthened my area of weakness which was vocabulary. Even the basic terms in D&D like dexterity and charisma were not words used by other 11 year olds but I knew what they meant and used them. I can guarantee that I got at least two or three more answers correct on my SAT as a result of - occasionally playing the game - mostly reading the manuals-.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 5, 2008, 3:43 pm

Truant wrote:
Arborealus wrote:Raises a glass of very strong Ice Tea in memoriam...
Ice Tea +1?

Tea of Thirt Slaying

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » March 6, 2008, 1:34 am

Penny Arcade's Memoriam was

...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 6, 2008, 3:48 am

Arborealus wrote:Penny Arcade's Memoriam was ...

That was nice Arb.

I just looked on one my book shelves and found three of my RPG books. Most of them are in a box somewhere in storage, including the original Advanced DnD Boxed Set.

I took a pic! My DM Guide is in amazingly good shape (1979 printing) but the Deities and Demigods has taken a beating. Traveller on the right came out in 1982. I never realy played Traveller but the guide is awesome. Lots of random generation stuff to play around with.

I still have the DM screen somewhere as well!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 6, 2008, 12:33 pm

Plenty of good memories. Plenty of Mountain Dew and Cheese Steaks consumed during long dorky sessions. I miss it.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 6, 2008, 2:01 pm

I had auctioned off my original Dieties and Demi-Gods for close to $500 because it still had all the really cool Gods in it. Then the Bible-Thumpers got it changed to Legends and Lore.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 6, 2008, 2:19 pm

Good stuff here. Very interesting history for an RPG book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deities_%26_Demigods

Printings

TSR published the first version of Deities & Demigods in 1980 for the first edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons rules. This edition, by James M. Ward and Robert J. Kuntz, served to update the material they had earlier included in 1976's Supplement IV: Gods, Demi-gods & Heroes for the original D&D ruleset.[1]

For the first 1980 printing, TSR obtained permission from Michael Moorcock for inclusion of Melnibonean material (from his Elric series of books). The Cthulhu Mythos was believed to be in the public domain, so TSR assumed they could legally use it without any special permission. However, Arkham House, who held the copyright on most Cthulhu books had already licensed the Cthulhu property to the game company Chaosium. Furthermore, Chaosium had also licensed the Melnibonéan copyright from Moorcock. When Chaosium threatened legal action, the first printing was halted and the two companies agreed on a compromise: TSR could continue to use the material but must provide a credit to Chaosium to do so. TSR added the credit for the second printing of the book.

For the third printing, however, TSR felt its material should not contain such an overt reference to one of its competitors and removed the Cthulhu and Melnibonéan pantheons altogether, thus negating the need for the credit. For this reason, the first and second printings have generally been in greater demand by D&D fans and collectors.[1] Ironically, the credit to Chaosium and some references to the deleted pantheons were still included in some of the subsequent printings.

For the sixth printing in 1985, the name was changed to Legends & Lore to avoid potential conflicts with fundamentalist Christian groups such as Patricia Pulling's BADD. Despite the name change and new cover artwork (by Jeff Easley), the interior material was nearly identical to the fifth printing.

When the second edition of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game was released, a new Legends & Lore was written for it. This edition had pared-down content in comparison to the original; the sections on Babylonian, Finnish, Sumerian and non-humanoid deities were wholly excised. However, a separate sourcebook, Monster Mythology, later covered the non-human deities in much greater detail than any previous source, introducing several new deities in the process. Furthermore the late 2e Planescape book, 'On Hallowed Ground', gave a virtually comprehensive look at the various pantheons present in the D&D shared universe up to that point, and a level of detail not since exceeded.

For the current editions of the book, the name has been changed back to Deities & Demigods and the cover artwork has been changed again to bring it more in line with other modern D&D manuals. The interior material bears little resemblance to the previous printings of the book (first through sixth). Additionally, this current edition presents the various historical pantheons in something of a vacuum, without any reference to or inclusion of their development in previous D&D sources, opting instead to detail them as one-off campaign options.

Another large difference between the old Legends & Lore and Deities and Demigods, is that the new edition book is presented with actual stats of deities, which were included in the original Deities & Demigods manual as well. This has created debate on Wizards own forum[citation needed], as many fans perceive deities to be beyond stats, while others believe they should have stats as well. Those who prefer the deities to be beyond stats, tend to use the stats presented in the book as Avatar stats instead of actual deity stats.

I had a first edition and it absolutely ruled. It was the reason I started reading Moorcock, Lovecraft, and Fritz Leiber. It got absolutely shredded though. They had horrible bindings. I think that's half the reason pristine or very good books are such collectors items (and why you were able to get $500 for it!). Both due to the rarity and the condition. As rulebooks they got a lot of love (heavy handling) and usually by teenagers who aren't known for taking good care of books. Tie that with a shitty binding and you get what I've seen: Masking tape on most AD&D Rulebook Bindings.

The AD&D Players Handbook and DMG covers were incredible to me.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 6, 2008, 2:45 pm

Ashur wrote:Good stuff here. Very interesting history for an RPG book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deities_%26_Demigods

Printings

For the first 1980 printing, TSR obtained permission from Michael Moorcock for inclusion of Melnibonean material (from his Elric series of books). The Cthulhu Mythos was believed to be in the public domain, so TSR assumed they could legally use it without any special permission. However, Arkham House, who held the copyright on most Cthulhu books had already licensed the Cthulhu property to the game company Chaosium. Furthermore, Chaosium had also licensed the Melnibonéan copyright from Moorcock. When Chaosium threatened legal action, the first printing was halted and the two companies agreed on a compromise: TSR could continue to use the material but must provide a credit to Chaosium to do so. TSR added the credit for the second printing of the book.
I had a first edition and it absolutely ruled. It was the reason I started reading Moorcock, Lovecraft, and Fritz Leiber. It got absolutely shredded though. They had horrible bindings. I think that's half the reason pristine or very good books are such collectors items (and why you were able to get $500 for it!). Both due to the rarity and the condition. As rulebooks they got a lot of love (heavy handling) and usually by teenagers who aren't known for taking good care of books. Tie that with a shitty binding and you get what I've seen: Masking tape on most AD&D Rulebook Bindings.

The AD&D Players Handbook and DMG covers were incredible to me.

Damn. The Deities and Demigods I have is the first edition with Elric and has the Babylonian, Finnish, Sumerian and non-humanoid deities. Shame that happens to be the one book that's beat up. The interior and binding are all in great shape though.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » March 6, 2008, 3:29 pm

I have never played the game in my life, but I have the original printing of the pic in the middle of winnows 3 pic post, and one other as well in perfect shape!

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » March 6, 2008, 4:34 pm

It's a shame about Gygax. He was an odd old guy, but he had an amazing impact on the fantasy gaming industry well beyond just the PnP world. He became pretty irrelevant to the industry after he was ousted from TSR, but he never stopped working on related products despite having a much smaller (almost non-existant by comparison) audience. I was a fan, and he obviously was the namesake for my EQ necromancer Xagyg. Colbert had a funny tribute to him at the end of his show the other night.

Winnow wrote:<snip>
Traveller on the right came out in 1982. I never realy played Traveller but the guide is awesome. Lots of random generation stuff to play around with.
<snip>

That version of Traveller was a later consolidated version of the original rulebooks. The original was published in 1976 or 1977 and included 3 pamphlets in a black box, similar to D&D's original white box version. I had both at one point, but sold my white box D&D set at an auction a long time ago. I still have the Traveller set stashed away in storage somewhere, but the box is demolished. I liked it a lot more than D&D, but it was usually tough to find any gamers back then that wanted to play anything other than D&D/AD&D.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 6, 2008, 5:04 pm

Somewhat off-topic, but since the PnP nerds are out in full-force in this thread...

Did anyone ever do a decent port of Car Wars to a video game? I never played much D&D or Car Wars, but I used to watch my older brother and his friends when they said I was too young to play with them. I remember Car Wars seeming pretty cool, with the customization of what you could do with your car and whatnot.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 6, 2008, 5:18 pm

Xatrei wrote:Colbert had a funny tribute to him at the end of his show the other night.

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertrep ... oId=156302

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 6, 2008, 5:27 pm

Sylvus wrote: Did anyone ever do a decent port of Car Wars to a video game?

Nope. There's been all sorts of Carrmageddon type games where you race around and destroy shit, but nothing that really touched on Car Wars. Which was indeed great, I had a lot of fun designing cars and actually played in a campaign a friend almost twice my age ran in high school.

My brother had one that was almost all front armor with dual rocket launchers on a ramplate with bumper triggers.

I'd buy a good Car Wars PC game port in a heartbeat.

I loved Traveler as well and bought a bazillion of the black books, but yeah, it was hard to get people to play. We had a brief campaign when Megatraveler was out. I always dreamed I'd invent an antigrav vehicle and planned to name it the Traveler Air/raft.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » March 6, 2008, 6:05 pm

AutoDuel

Old old old. But originally put out by the Car Wars people themselves.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 6, 2008, 6:32 pm

It was a shame what TSR did to Gary Gygax. I met him a few times and he was definitely the gamer type. Pretty cool though.

I like car wars a lot but can never find anyone to play it. Most of the young kids nowadays never heard of it. At one point I ran a roleplaying campaign based on its rules using champions characters. I still have almost every book, handout, manual, etc. sitting in my basement.

I worked on a game based on it at one point. I haven't done anything with the code in at least 3 years though. Not even sure I can find it anymore. I got side tracked on a battletech port and then sidetracked again. I never had a problem with the coding aspect but I am a shitty artist and that was where I always gave up.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 7, 2008, 11:32 am

Ashur wrote:I had a first edition and it absolutely ruled. It was the reason I started reading Moorcock, Lovecraft, and Fritz Leiber. It got absolutely shredded though. They had horrible bindings. I think that's half the reason pristine or very good books are such collectors items (and why you were able to get $500 for it!). Both due to the rarity and the condition. As rulebooks they got a lot of love (heavy handling) and usually by teenagers who aren't known for taking good care of books. Tie that with a shitty binding and you get what I've seen: Masking tape on most AD&D Rulebook Bindings.

Looking through my boxes I found a pretty good conditon Deities & Demigods. Other than a few dog-eared pages it's like new. It must be third printing though as it has the credit in the front but no actual content. Guess I wont be getting rich!

Hmm guess I wouldn't have anyway:

Contrary to rumor, the first two printings of Deities & Demigods were never recalled or "banned". They're far more common than most people seem to believe; an estimated 10,000 - 15,000 copies of these prints are still in circulation. However, due to the hype of the removed pantheons, a First or Second printing currently fetches more than any other AD&D hardcover manual (though recent prices have been falling).

Deities & Demigods (1st): VG: $34 (1/03), VG: $91 (9/03)
Deities & Demigods (1st/2nd): FN: $76 (5/01), VF: $81 (10/99), VF: $56 (11/99),
VF: $70 (12/99), VF (signed): $91 (4/00)

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 7, 2008, 11:56 am