Global Cooling?

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Winnow
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Global Cooling?

Post by Winnow »

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Mo ... e10866.htm
Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Michael Asher (Blog) - February 26, 2008 12:55 PM

Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down
.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.
The article is dramatized but it's been a cold winter in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres.

It's all linked to solar activity. Out of our control.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Haven't you read the IPCC Report though?
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

have you?
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Spang »

I don't think he wants scientific data to get in the way of his argument.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Who are you talking about?

Scientific data? Did you not read the article that started this thread? Boy, you fanatical Global-Warminites are thick headed. Not all Global-Warminites, just the fanaticals. I wouldn't dare label a whole religious sect like that. I only mean the fanaticals. Which I'm sure is a small percentage of their group.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Spang »

We're talking about the IPCC report you brought up in the very first response to this thread.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

Have you read it yet Midnyte?
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nick wrote:Have you read it yet Midnyte?

Nope. I also haven't read the bible, but I think it's a nice story with no definitive proof of the things they tout to be irrefuteable. Have a nice day.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

New information from the U.S. National Climatic Data Center indicates much of the world is suffering through record cold and snow this winter. Snow cover over North America and much of Asia is greater than at any time since 1966. The average January temperature was three-tenths of a degree Fahrenheit colder than the average for the 20th century. China is said to be experiencing its must brutal winter in 100 years.

And despite fears by some that the Arctic ice pack is melting — one senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service tells the National Post that ice is up to 20 centimeters thicker in many places than at this time last year. Experts from the National Research Council — and the Russian Academy of Natural sciences — both predict global cooling in the near future if sunspot activity does not increase soon.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332890,00.html
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Aardor »

I thought we already had a thread about this where it was determined that:
A. Global Warming is a misused term, and it should be Global Climate Change
B. One year means very little to the the trend of Global Climate Change
C. Engaging Midnyte on any subject which requires both intelligence and personal research is futile
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aardor wrote:I thought we already had a thread about this where it was determined that:
A. Global Warming is a misused term, and it should be Global Climate Change
B. One year means very little to the the trend of Global Climate Change
C. Engaging Midnyte on any subject which requires both intelligence and personal research is futile
The thing is, people that are chirping up that are behind the "global warming" or "climate change" or whatever you want to call it theory constantly tell people they need to read this IPCC report, and take the IPCCs findings as gospel.

Those same people try to shoot down any other findings by any other scientists (there is nothing special about the IPCC, other scientists opinions are just as much or MORE valid than those of a organization which is likely influenced by politicians). The fact that this year has been very cold world wide is just as valid as the IPCC's research based off the past (maybe 75 years? ) of accurate temperature data - being as both of them are pin dots on the timeline of Earth's history.

Quit being spin artists to serve your point, it's annoying and it's getting old in a big fucking hurry.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Noysyrump »

I'm surprised the global warming folk arent chirping in "See our reforms are working!"


Studies by geologists upon the rocks of this planet, have discovered 3 mass extinctions of 85%+ of all life on earth in its 4.5 billion year history. One due to a massive freeze broght on by the super continent Rhodenia. One due to Volcanic activity exuding massive amounts of harmful gasses (Mainly CO2 causing guess what, global warming FOR REAL i.e. 212* winters) on a global scale. And the last, they believe to be an interstellar collision wich wiped out the Dinosaurs.

If perchance our CO2 emmisions are worse than what the planet naturally exudes, then it is in fact meaningless in the grand scheme. When we all die off, it wont be because of anything we did. So instead of worrying about this tomfoolery, cant we just make the best of our time here, and as stated before, figure out a way off this damn rock before it kills us all.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by MooZilla »

The cooling we've seen this winter is a result of "Global Warming". You would know this if you ever looked past the front page of the New York Times and delved into the reports. Our massive carbon dioxide emissions can swing the temperatures to both extremes.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Winnow »

Sounds like global warming has things explained no matter what happens!

kinda like religion
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by MooZilla »

Except we're use something called science and recorded history to prove a point.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

Usually its those who refuse to acknowledge scientific findings and continue to believe their own faith driven belief that are considered the religious zealots.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Boogahz »

and religious zealots never admit/recognize that they are religious zealots!


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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Funkmasterr »

MooZilla wrote:Except we're use something called science and recorded history to prove a point.
Someone who was truly intelligent would not need any kind of college education to understand that 50-75 years of recorded history at best are not enough to judge trends in the weather and our influence on them. We could be going through a normal trend that just happens to coincide with the "findings" you speak of, but guess what, we don't know BECAUSE THE EARTH IS OLD AS FUCK AND 100 YEARS ISNT SHIT, QUIT BEING SO FUCKING SHALLOW.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Funkmasterr wrote:
MooZilla wrote:Except we're use something called science and recorded history to prove a point.
Someone who was truly intelligent would not need any kind of college education to understand that 50-75 years of recorded history at best are not enough to judge trends in the weather and our influence on them. We could be going through a normal trend that just happens to coincide with the "findings" you speak of, but guess what, we don't know BECAUSE THE EARTH IS OLD AS FUCK AND 100 YEARS ISNT SHIT, QUIT BEING SO FUCKING SHALLOW.
Well said Mr. Funmasstterrrr.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

Do/did either of you go to college?

Do either of you care to explain why you choose to ignore the legitimacy of the scientific theory on this, and only this subject? It makes zero logical sense.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Funkmasterr »

Nick wrote:Do/did either of you go to college?

Do either of you care to explain why you choose to ignore the legitimacy of the scientific theory on this, and only this subject? It makes zero logical sense.
The bold part of your sentence answers your own question, at least in my case. I have said this before and I will say it again, I do feel like we need to make changes to make us less harmful to our environments JUST BECAUSE. I also think there is a lot more being done to move towards goals like this than a lot of people acknowledge/realize.

In my opinion, I have read some "scientific theory's" that are just as fact based and convincing as what the IPCC is stating, a number of which have been brought up here. I don't feel you can say based off 75 years of data from a planet that is millions upon millions of years old (and has had human life on it for thousands of year) that you have solid proof we are having a large enough effect on our environment that it could cause catastrophic events to occur.

Judging by what I've said (I know I've gone into more detail on the same subjects in other threads), I'm sure you can deduct that I do feel we need to change, but I don't like what I feel is a scare tactic to get people on board with change. If you can't get people on board just because, then I guess it's too bad for us.

What makes zero logical sense to me is how so many of you will only accept what the IPCC says and are quick to completely discard anything any other scientist says. You realize the IPCC scientists' opinions are no more valuable than the next scientists, right? Even if you think they are, and even if it serves your purpose, it's still incorrect.

Edit: Sorry I didn't answer your first question, yes I did go to college.
Last edited by Funkmasterr on February 28, 2008, 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Fash »

Science isn't perfect. The scientific method is close, but we're not actually able to fully adhere to it when it comes to examining our own environment. We don't have a control. We don't even know all of the pieces of the puzzle or how they all interact. No matter how convincing the study, it can be entirely false. So... why the blind adherence to it?

Seems to me... You draw the 100 year line, ending last year, and it shows 1 degree increase... but now, if you use this year, it will show no increase. Why cling to last years results?

Science is capable of doubting itself, and changing it's conclusions based on new data. Perhaps the analogy to Religion is being invoked because this specific issue, climate change, has engendered so much fanaticism from people who are in no position to know or do anything about it.
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Re: Global Cooling?

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Funkmasterr wrote:You realize the IPCC scientists' opinions are no more valuable than the next scientists, right? Even if you think they are, and even if it serves your purpose, it's still incorrect.
I tend to consider the biggest collection of experiments regarding Climate Change and mans effect on it to be quite a valuable and legitimate resource when considering the subject at hand. You apparantly do not.

This is especially more pertinent given the fact that those who chose to refute the evidence offer no scientific evidence of their own to persuade me to change my mind.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Yes Nick, I graduated college in 1995. I did only end up with a 3.8 average though, so maybe that's why I am unable to comprehend things on your level of intellect.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

perhaps.

(That is, if i knew what a 3.8 average was :P - it's marked differently over here)
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Funkmasterr »

Fash wrote:Science isn't perfect. The scientific method is close, but we're not actually able to fully adhere to it when it comes to examining our own environment. We don't have a control. We don't even know all of the pieces of the puzzle or how they all interact. No matter how convincing the study, it can be entirely false. So... why the blind adherence to it?

Seems to me... You draw the 100 year line, ending last year, and it shows 1 degree increase... but now, if you use this year, it will show no increase. Why cling to last years results?

Science is capable of doubting itself, and changing it's conclusions based on new data. Perhaps the analogy to Religion is being invoked because this specific issue, climate change, has engendered so much fanaticism from people who are in no position to know or do anything about it.
Precisely, IMO the people on the IPCC bandwagon are treating it as an organization like Catholics treat the Vatican.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nick wrote:perhaps.

(That is, if i knew what a 3.8 average was :P - it's marked differently over here)
I really don't care. I just enjoy discussing social issues and current events. I'm not into this cock measuring. Prolly cause I'll lose a good amount of the time, but that's besides the point.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

Comparing a scientific report agreed upon by a couple of hundred of the worlds most learned impartial scientists to an unproveable top-down power structure based on stories known to be ripped off from previous religions - that say if you eat meat on a Friday means your afterlife is spent in eternal hellfire - is a completely and utterly ridiculous comparison that makes a mockery of intelligent discourse.

Especially when the people criticising it appear to not actually have read it, thus not know what they are talking about.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Fash »

Don't make it the wrong comparison... It's not IPCC vs Bible. It's climate fanatic vs religious fanatic.
(I didn't bring it up or make the comparison, I'm just commenting)
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Funkmasterr »

Nick wrote:Comparing a scientific report agreed upon by a couple of hundred of the worlds most learned impartial scientists to an unproveable top-down power structure based on stories known to be ripped off from previous religions - that say if you eat meat on a Friday means your afterlife is spent in eternal hellfire - is a completely and utterly ridiculous comparison that makes a mockery of intelligent discourse.

Especially when the people criticising it appear to not actually have read it, thus not know what they are talking about.
I'm talking about the organization, not the report, was that not clear? I thought it was.
Fash wrote:Don't make it the wrong comparison... It's not IPCC vs Bible. It's climate fanatic vs religious fanatic.
What he said.
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Re: Global Cooling?

Post by Nick »

Who's being a fanatic here? All anyone's saying is that steps should be made to minimise needless energy expenditure so the planet isn't harmed in a needless manner. There is scientific evidence to support the claim that the earth is undergoing a change, and we have an opportunity to minimise our own part in it.

Hardly a particularly controversial subject, unless you enjoy supporting certain companies who lose out on financial gain because of it (the same companies that fuck you over with gas prices on a daily basis by the way). Why support them? What does that achieve?

Stop projecting labels onto things, isn't that the exact thing you complain about "liberals" doing? (another hypocrisy in itself, for another time).
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