14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

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14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »


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In a file photo a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter lands to extract members of a U.S. Army Combat ...

14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash
By HAMID AHMED, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago

BAGHDAD - A Black Hawk helicopter went down Wednesday in northern Iraq, killing all 14 U.S. soldiers aboard, the military said, the deadliest crash since January 2005.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, meanwhile, lashed out at American criticism a day after President Bush expressed frustration with the Iraqi government's inability to bridge political divisions.

"No one has the right to place timetables on the Iraq government. It was elected by its people," the Shiite leader said at a news conference in Damascus at the end of a three-day visit to Syria.

"Those who make such statements are bothered by our visit to Syria. We will pay no attention. We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere," al-Maliki said.
The military said initial indications showed the UH-60 helicopter experienced a mechanical problem and was not brought down by hostile fire, but the cause of the crash was still under investigation.

It was one of two helicopters on a nighttime operation. The four crew members and 10 passengers who perished were assigned to Task Force Lightning, the military said. It did not release identities pending notification of relatives.

The U.S. military relies heavily on helicopters to avoid the threat of ambushes and roadside bombs _ the deadliest weapon in the militants' arsenal _ and dozens have crashed in accidents or been shot down.

The deadliest crash occurred on Jan. 26, 2005, when a CH-53 Sea Stallion transport helicopter went down in a sandstorm in western Iraq, killing 31 U.S. troops.

Wednesday's deaths raised to at least 3,721 members of the U.S. military who have died since the Iraq war started in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

Elsewhere in northern Iraq, a suicide truck bomber targeted a police agency in northern Iraq, killing at least 19 people and wounding 26, police and hospital officials said.

The attack occurred just before noon in Beiji, 155 miles north of Baghdad, and many of the casualties were civilians, according to the officials.

Iraqi police and soldiers have frequently been targeted by militants seeking to disrupt U.S.-led efforts to enable the forces to take over their own security so foreign troops can go home. A bomb and small-arms attack against a security post shared by police and U.S. paratroopers also killed 13 Iraqi officers in Beiji in late June.

Jassim Saleh, 41, who lives about 500 yards from the blast site, said he saw an explosives-laden truck carrying stones strike the police station.

"It was a horrible scene. I can't describe it," he said. "The bodies were scattered everywhere. I was injured in my hand and a leg, but I took three wounded people to the hospital in my car."

Police said nine policemen and 10 civilians were killed, while 21 civilians and five officers were wounded.

A roadside bomb also targeted a police patrol in the center of Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown 80 miles north of Baghdad, killing one officer and wounding another, along with two civilians, authorities said.

With violence unrelenting, political pressure mounted for al-Maliki to show progress in bringing Iraq's battling factions together.

Bush acknowledged his frustration with Iraqi leaders' inability to bridge political divisions on Tuesday, but said only the Iraqi people can decide whether to sideline the troubled prime minister.

"Clearly, the Iraqi government's got to do more," Bush said at the close of a two-day summit with the leaders of Mexico and Canada.

The Sept. 15 deadline for Bush's next progress report to Congress is fast approaching, leaving him little time to show that his U.S. troop buildup is succeeding in providing the enhanced security the Iraqi leaders need to forge a unified way forward.

Al-Maliki blamed the U.S. presidential campaign for the recent tough words from Bush and other American politicians.

Without naming any American official, al-Maliki said some of the criticism of him and his government was "discourteous."

U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, co-author of the highly anticipated report to Congress, also said Tuesday that Washington's blueprint for reconciliation was insufficient to win back control of Iraq. Congressional benchmarks such as laws to share oil revenue and reform security services don't tell the whole story, he said.

Crocker, who will present the report with military commander Gen. David Petraeus, called Iraq's problems difficult but fixable, arguing for more time for his diplomacy and operations by the bolstered American military force.

"Failure to meet any of them (congressionally mandated benchmarks) does not mean the definitive failure of the state or the society," Crocker said. "Conversely, to make them all would not by any means mean that they've turned the corner and it's a sun-dappled upland from here on in with peace and harmony and background music. It's just a lot more complex than that."

He echoed Bush's frustration with the lack of action by al-Maliki government's on key legislative measures.

"Progress on national level issues has been extremely disappointing and frustrating to all concerned _ to us, to Iraqis, to the Iraqi leadership itself," Crocker said. But he added that the Shiite prime minister was working "in the shadow of a huge national trauma."

While saying U.S. support was not a "blank check," Crocker said Washington would continue backing al-Maliki's government "as it makes serious efforts to achieve national reconciliation and deliver effective governance to the people of Iraq." He stressed that it's not just al-Maliki, but "the whole government that has to perform here."

___

Associated Press writer Qassim Abdul-Zahra in Damascus, Syria, contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
"Those who make such statements are bothered by our visit to Syria. We will pay no attention. We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere," al-Maliki said.
You're welcome. Wow, what an unappreciative and ignorant comment.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Zaelath »

Oh, the irony. Oh.. the sweet, sweet, irony. hehe
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

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While saying U.S. support was not a "blank check," Crocker said Washington would continue backing al-Maliki's government "as it makes serious efforts to achieve national reconciliation and deliver effective governance to the people of Iraq." He stressed that it's not just al-Maliki, but "the whole government that has to perform here."
"No one has the right to place timetables on the Iraq government. It was elected by its people," the Shiite leader said at a news conference in Damascus at the end of a three-day visit to Syria.

"Those who make such statements are bothered by our visit to Syria. We will pay no attention. We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere," al-Maliki said.
I would assume that the U.S. government's financial backing and military support for the government does give the U.S. the right to place timetables on what it wants to see accomplished, doesn't it?
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Fash »

I would think so, considering we could step away and let them all get slaughtered.

For conversation sake though... Is Syria as bad as we think? Is it really this seedy underground terrorist resort or has the media fooled us? On one hand I wonder why the hell they would open relations with Syria, and on the other, I know we know fuck-nothing about what's actually going on over there.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Acies »

I think all throughout the middle east, we are going to find cells, small groups (or not so small) that hate the United States and want us gone. Now, they do not hate us because of our religion, or the color of our skin (duh), or our fashion or the "lewdness" of our women. The hate us because we have destabalized the region time and again.

I have said this once and I will say it many times. We should not be there. Of course, I am not making billions off the blood of American soldiers either, to say nothing of the innocents that have been killed.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Acies wrote:I think all throughout the middle east, we are going to find cells, small groups (or not so small) that hate the United States and want us gone. Now, they do not hate us because of our religion, or the color of our skin (duh), or our fashion or the "lewdness" of our women. The hate us because we have destabalized the region time and again.

I have said this once and I will say it many times. We should not be there. Of course, I am not making billions off the blood of American soldiers either, to say nothing of the innocents that have been killed.
And we hate them for killing us. It's a vicious circle. You choose to side with them. Makes sense. :roll:
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Nick »

Who gives a fuck?

More Iraqi's died today and at least they didn't voluntarily sign up to become patriotic bullshit headlines.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Drinsic Darkwood »

Yeah, those fucking idiots should've known better, right?
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Nick »

yes?
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Aslanna »

With a troll that obvious I'm surprised someone took the bait.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Nick »

Well can anyone give a good legitimate reason why 14 US casualties are more newsworthy than 14 Iraqi casualties?

I didn't think so.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Acies »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Acies wrote:I think all throughout the middle east, we are going to find cells, small groups (or not so small) that hate the United States and want us gone. Now, they do not hate us because of our religion, or the color of our skin (duh), or our fashion or the "lewdness" of our women. The hate us because we have destabalized the region time and again.

I have said this once and I will say it many times. We should not be there. Of course, I am not making billions off the blood of American soldiers either, to say nothing of the innocents that have been killed.
And we hate them for killing us. It's a vicious circle. You choose to side with them. Makes sense. :roll:
It is easier to side with someone when they are being bullied than to side with the bully. There is also the fact that, as I stated previous, our boys are dying and killing for someone else's pocket book. I mean, if you cannot wrap your head around the concept of why that is evil, then I can understand why people here get fustrated with you.

Sorry if I seem short with that last comment, but you ARE defending an evil action by evil men. That either makes you evil yourself, stupid, or manipulated.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Acies wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Acies wrote:I think all throughout the middle east, we are going to find cells, small groups (or not so small) that hate the United States and want us gone. Now, they do not hate us because of our religion, or the color of our skin (duh), or our fashion or the "lewdness" of our women. The hate us because we have destabalized the region time and again.

I have said this once and I will say it many times. We should not be there. Of course, I am not making billions off the blood of American soldiers either, to say nothing of the innocents that have been killed.
And we hate them for killing us. It's a vicious circle. You choose to side with them. Makes sense. :roll:
It is easier to side with someone when they are being bullied than to side with the bully. There is also the fact that, as I stated previous, our boys are dying and killing for someone else's pocket book. I mean, if you cannot wrap your head around the concept of why that is evil, then I can understand why people here get fustrated with you.

Sorry if I seem short with that last comment, but you ARE defending an evil action by evil men. That either makes you evil yourself, stupid, or manipulated.

Acies, what you need to realize is, all wars and all conflicts benefit a group of people in power positions on either side of said conflict. You must take that out of the equatin, because it is constant is every situation. You are not pointing out something unique to this conflict.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Nick wrote:Well can anyone give a good legitimate reason why 14 US casualties are more newsworthy than 14 Iraqi casualties?

I didn't think so.
Because it is a US news source. I am sure the Iraqi news gives its own versions differently.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Zaelath »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Nick wrote:Well can anyone give a good legitimate reason why 14 US casualties are more newsworthy than 14 Iraqi casualties?

I didn't think so.
Because it is a US news source. I am sure the Iraqi news gives its own versions differently.
Yeah, gotta agree... that's scary.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Somali »

Is it really? A US news Source seems to think that news about the death of their countrymen is more noteworthy to its readers than an Iraqi news source? Lets assume for a minute that because it is a US news source they have their primary audience in the US. Then lets assume that they are "selling" their stories to people within their primary market. They have the option to report on people from their home market dying, or people in a foreign market dying. The news is really nothing more than a way to make money. There is no altruistic goal of presenting an unbiased story.
Scary? No. Not really.
Sad? I'll give you that.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Somali »

Or did you mean it was scary that people would assume the news was a trustworthy source of information exempt from bias?

If that was your meaning then I agree. That is scary.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Zaelath »

lol, scary that I agree w/ Kilmoll... just stop already! :P
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Somali »

Apologies for misinterpreting your rather abrupt post.
I did not think there was a potential for you to agree with Killmoll. I'm sure you can understand. :P
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Acies »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Acies, what you need to realize is, all wars and all conflicts benefit a group of people in power positions on either side of said conflict. You must take that out of the equatin, because it is constant is every situation. You are not pointing out something unique to this conflict.
Well Mid, this is true. Usually there are people in the upper crust who stand to gain more from war (or actually gain at all). That is a problem I have with war but let's leave that for the moment. My beef with this war and our administration is that they are fucking over our own troops, exploiting America, to make a dollar. They started a war on slim, still unjustified pretext to line their pockets, period. It was not a byproduct, that they gain from this war. It was the reason the war began.

This administration will have me voting democrat for ages, because I will see shadows of the monkey-demon Bush in every republican canidate. Is it fair? No. However, this is how extreme this president has fucked up, and we do not fear terrorists so much as we fear another one of him (at least, that is me). He has dragged us into a war which has cost us trillions (and more importantly, blood), a war which did not need to be fought. What he needed to do and still has not yet done, is capture Osama Bin Laden. Yet where the fuck is he? Somewhere in Pakistan? Afganiastan? Iran? I mean, is he human, or is he in reality Carmen fucking Sandiego that we just cannot find him anywhere in the world? The better question is, when the American people wanted the 9-11 Mastermind that they always said was, when we wanted him broguht to justice, what happened? Nothing. He is still out there while our president plays war. So fuck him. That IS bottom line.

My question still, remains, how can you support this administration Midnyte?
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Acies wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Acies, what you need to realize is, all wars and all conflicts benefit a group of people in power positions on either side of said conflict. You must take that out of the equatin, because it is constant is every situation. You are not pointing out something unique to this conflict.
Well Mid, this is true. Usually there are people in the upper crust who stand to gain more from war (or actually gain at all). That is a problem I have with war but let's leave that for the moment. My beef with this war and our administration is that they are fucking over our own troops, exploiting America, to make a dollar. They started a war on slim, still unjustified pretext to line their pockets, period. It was not a byproduct, that they gain from this war. It was the reason the war began.

This administration will have me voting democrat for ages, because I will see shadows of the monkey-demon Bush in every republican canidate. Is it fair? No. However, this is how extreme this president has fucked up, and we do not fear terrorists so much as we fear another one of him (at least, that is me). He has dragged us into a war which has cost us trillions (and more importantly, blood), a war which did not need to be fought. What he needed to do and still has not yet done, is capture Osama Bin Laden. Yet where the fuck is he? Somewhere in Pakistan? Afganiastan? Iran? I mean, is he human, or is he in reality Carmen fucking Sandiego that we just cannot find him anywhere in the world? The better question is, when the American people wanted the 9-11 Mastermind that they always said was, when we wanted him broguht to justice, what happened? Nothing. He is still out there while our president plays war. So fuck him. That IS bottom line.

My question still, remains, how can you support this administration Midnyte?
It is my administration. While I may not find everything they have done to be perfect, I don't expect my government to be perfect. I'm sorry you feel everything should be perfect and wonderful. I'm sorry you feel we should achieve every objective we have. I'm sorry you feel an entire 7 year administration has done nothing good at all and you can write off an entire administration. I don't operate that way. All presidents, adminstrations, congresses, etc. can be viewed through a single colored lense if you so choose, but you are only doing yourself and injustice.

I understand you don't like this administration and I respect your decision, but you should not expect every one else to fall in line with your opinion. You should not find fault in those who don't see things exactly the way you do. Your not right because you think the way you think, you just think the way you think.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Nick »

There is a difference between being realistic and having really shitty low standards.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

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Acies wrote: It is easier to side with someone when they are being bullied than to side with the bully. There is also the fact that, as I stated previous, our boys are dying and killing for someone else's pocket book. I mean, if you cannot wrap your head around the concept of why that is evil, then I can understand why people here get fustrated with you.

Sorry if I seem short with that last comment, but you ARE defending an evil action by evil men. That either makes you evil yourself, stupid, or manipulated.
Hey Acies,

I think you meant to say 'underdog' instead of 'bully'. I think the men and women who are fighting and dying on all sides of this war are being manipulated by ambitious people who want more power/money/influence etc. I'm a little upset that we're trying to install a puppet government over there, but something's gotta go in that power void we created, and it damn sure better be someone who's going to put the safety of the Iraqi people first.

When I look at how Islamic fundamentalists treated people in Afghanistan and Pakistan before the war, (we, the world should have done something about this a long time ago btw) it's hard for me to have much sympathy for them in this fight. Especially when you consider that most of the insurgents we're fighting are from countries other than Iraq. And that many of the Iraqi casualties are Muslim on Muslim violence. They're not killing each other because Americans are there, but they are able to do it because we are.

And if the PM of Iraq thinks he can get the job done without us, I don't agree; I think the U.S. will need to maintain a heavy police-like presence in Iraq and Afghanistan for at least 5, but probably more, years.

Nick, I personally feel worse when Iraqi civilians are killed than when American soldiers die in Iraq, if that makes you feel any better.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Acies »

Mid, Nick is right. There is a world of differance between a "not-perfect administration" and even "a useless administration". This isn't Nixon's "non-perfect" presidency, or say, Carter's "useless" one. We are in a war that we do not need to be in. In war, lot's of people are killed. In this one, it is without a good cause. In the end, I may be a bleeding heart hippy or a tree-hugging liberal, but at least I am not selling my soul, the blood of my countrymen and innocents abroad for a few measly fucking dollars.

What I am pissed about, what I am confused about, is how you can endorse this bloodshed... for nothing that will last. I just do not get it.

Bojangles, I mean bully. When I refer to bully, I do not include our soldiers in that adjective though.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Acies wrote: What I am pissed about, what I am confused about, is how you can endorse this bloodshed... for nothing that will last. I just do not get it.
.
I'm sorry you are confused and pissed at me. I don't presume to know the future and whether or not the shake up in the middle east will have a positive or negative long term effect. I will watch and see like everyone else over the next 10-20 years. Hopefully, they take advantage of this opportunity bestowed upon them. Hopefully they seize it. Hopefully they embrace the internet, the society of mass information and begin to question the barbaric and murderous teachings of their religious zealots. Hopefully democracy and capitalism will infect them and they will break free from their religious, backwards ways. Hopefully. I don't presume to know the answer, like you do.
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Re: 14 U.S. Troops Die in Iraq Copter Crash

Post by Zaelath »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
It is my administration. While I may not find everything they have done to be perfect, I don't expect my government to be perfect. I'm sorry you feel everything should be perfect and wonderful. I'm sorry you feel we should achieve every objective we have. I'm sorry you feel an entire 7 year administration has done nothing good at all and you can write off an entire administration. I don't operate that way. All presidents, adminstrations, congresses, etc. can be viewed through a single colored lense if you so choose, but you are only doing yourself and injustice.

I understand you don't like this administration and I respect your decision, but you should not expect every one else to fall in line with your opinion. You should not find fault in those who don't see things exactly the way you do. Your not right because you think the way you think, you just think the way you think.
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