Does the world need 2 of YOU?

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » December 27, 2002, 9:17 am

Does the world need 2 or maybe more of YOU?
http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/12/27/hu ... index.html

Drolgin Steingrinder · December 27, 2002, 9:37 am

We definately need less than one of you. Go away prease?

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 27, 2002, 10:19 am

Well, if my career as a super hero is ever going to take off, an evil clone is essential.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » December 27, 2002, 10:34 am

Two of me = World Domination.

Prepare for the Iron Fist of Fear, peons!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 27, 2002, 10:48 am

man.. two kyoukans would be twice as charismatic and hilarious.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 27, 2002, 11:19 am

Human (and other animals, for that matter) cloning scares the living bejeebus outta me.

There is so much room for error. Even if we get it right we prison rape the species in the long run.

Still looking for some good in this lil area of science.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 27, 2002, 11:40 am

Good thing Star Trek already gave us all the lingo we need for Cloning like Replictive Fading and such.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 27, 2002, 11:41 am

i dont know, i mean if i was sterile, i'd rather combine one of my skin cells with my wife's egg than use a sperm donor.

granted as said above, it may not be in the best interest of the species for people with reproductive problems at large to continue to contribute to the gene pool.

this case in canada was an infertile couple. the woman on TV right now looks like the egg donor for the Cristina Aguilara clone project though.

i think it is irresponsible to clone humans at this point, because as clones mature they do not have the genetic integrity to remain healthy. cloned animals for instance dont grow up to be healthy adults. this will most likely not be an exception to that trend.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » December 27, 2002, 11:56 am

One thing tho, since were are already at a population of about 6 Billion people, why the fuck do we want to clone more of us?

In the words of Bill Hicks, "Lets work out the whole food, air deal here."

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 27, 2002, 12:06 pm

oh by the way this group of people in Canada believes that aliens orignially populated the Earth with clones of themselves....

that migth explain the peculiar behavior of the woman at the press conference.

meaning she behaved peculiarly because she is totally insane....

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 27, 2002, 12:22 pm

Agreed Vor.

However, I still hold a slight belief in aliens constructing the pyramids many moons ago. I just find it hard to believe humans did that by hand.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 27, 2002, 12:41 pm

Because levers and pulleys could not have existed pre-1900's? You did go to school long enough to understand the concept I hope? The people through the centuries have done some incredible things, although much of the knowledge of how they did things has been lost or destroyed. The ancient Egyptians also had this little thing called "mummification" that we are not sure of to this day how they did it so well. They also managed to forge and shape steel and precious metals!!1!!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 27, 2002, 12:52 pm

they also didnt give a fuck if their workers died during the construction project, unlike contractors of today

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 27, 2002, 12:59 pm

Yes Killmoll I know. I am just utterly facinated by it. Thus, allowing myself to consider other possibilities.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » December 27, 2002, 1:13 pm

I'd make two of my fiancee.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » December 27, 2002, 1:14 pm

I would have a clone made, spare eyes, heart, kidneys, etc all at my beck and call would be handy.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 27, 2002, 1:16 pm

much easier to just grow a liver in a dish then make a woman gestate and birth a baby though

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 27, 2002, 1:24 pm

What if in the future we are able to do brain transfers successfully? Would cloning be a step towards immortality?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 27, 2002, 1:33 pm

i can't imagine how you can download personality and thought from one brain to another.

your "mind" is the combination of the hardware and the software to extend the computer metaphor. not only do the physical electrical connections between neurons dictate your personality and reaction to your environment, but they also change rapidly all the time in a manner that is dictated by your experience and mood.

the only way that this would really be possible i guess, is to physically remove the brain from one head and put it in the new body. this of course would require massive developments in technology facilitating neural regeneration. Because it really wouldnt do much good to transfer an old degrading brain into a healthy new body. and if you can erase the effects of neurodegeneration, then there is no need to do the surgury in the first place probably, since you can probably regenrate more simple tissue easily as well.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » December 27, 2002, 1:56 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:man.. two kyoukans would be twice as charismatic and hilarious.

Multiple dancing bananas...TMI.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » December 27, 2002, 2:00 pm

hrm two Sylvos...
Ladies across the world would rejoice.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 27, 2002, 2:47 pm

Seriously, what if your clone turned out to be a raging homo?

OverCubed · Post by **OverCubed** » December 27, 2002, 2:58 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:Seriously, what if your clone turned out to me a raging homo?

Then you would be giving the phrase "Go fuck yourself" a whole new meaning.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » December 27, 2002, 2:58 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:Seriously, what if your clone turned out to me a raging homo?

Funny that Fairweather had a freudian slip from be to me while he was speaking of raging homo's.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 27, 2002, 3:00 pm

Dammit, my ninja edit was not enough fast for joo!

PhyscoBloodspiller · December 27, 2002, 6:17 pm

do cloned babies have souls?

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 27, 2002, 6:18 pm

You just opened up the biggest can of worms yet.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 27, 2002, 6:20 pm

PhyscoBloodspiller wrote:do cloned babies have souls?

no. and neither do the 'normal' ones.

at least one analyst i saw on TV suggested that this outfit was basically faking this. He says none of their scientists have any particular expertise (based on publication record) in the field of cloning, and they have not even demonstrated a successful primate cloning. In other words, he is calling bullshit.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 27, 2002, 6:25 pm

PhyscoBloodspiller wrote:do cloned babies have souls?

the concept of "soul" was created by us, human beings, and it has no basis in reality.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » December 27, 2002, 9:52 pm

Fash wrote:
PhyscoBloodspiller wrote:do cloned babies have souls?
the concept of "soul" was created by us, human beings, and it has no basis in reality.

The word was created, not the fact it exists.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » December 27, 2002, 11:28 pm

We have experts with 24 years of experience in the reproduction of humans and benefited from that....

Errrrm I have that much experience...much more if you count solo practice...

Phugg_Innay · Post by **Phugg_Innay** » December 27, 2002, 11:42 pm

Cloning is a huge fucking mistake. There has a been a thing at work for millions of years that has worked wonderfully untill the past few thousand.That would be called Natural Selection. The weak get weaker and strong get stronger. The Human race on the other hand has been getting weaker (physically) and gaining strength on the world. Screw the peace loving tree huggers of the world , I want to go club a baby seal and use its hide for a coat. Now if something stronger than me wants to have me for a snack , well the just Bad fucking luck on my part , I'll die fighting. In the end I'll still be a snack for something , the worms the neighbors cat , whatever. Natural selection works and has proven itself for millions of years.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 27, 2002, 11:58 pm

Phugg_Innay wrote:Cloning is a huge fucking mistake. There has a been a thing at work for millions of years that has worked wonderfully untill the past few thousand.That would be called Natural Selection.

This has nothing to do with Natural Selection, which is only an Observation of how things happened before Civilization came to be.

If they clone or not, it doesn't affect you, though in the future, you may benefit greatly from it with john doe liver #22033...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 28, 2002, 12:58 am

society is part of the operation of Natural Selection.

whether that society is ant, bee, human, canine, simian, etc.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » December 28, 2002, 1:43 am

Fash wrote:
This has nothing to do with Natural Selection, which is only an Observation of how things happened before Civilization came to be.

Nonsense...natural selection did not stop when civilization began...some of the traits being selected for changed...We are now being selected for a different set of survival traits...

Cloning as a sole means of reproduction would actually halt the natural, gradual modification of the gene pool which would be catastrophic for our species long term (populations with a homogenous genotype are very prone to die en masse to disease or other environmental events)...This is not however a direction which the human species or our science is headed (lets face it we enjoy the sexual act way too much to replace it), we are talking about limited cloning for the folks who cannot reproduce normally...

I would still submit that we don't need more humans on the planet than we have now and we need some folks to parent all the children who are born now (though I have issues with people not capable of nurturing, reproducing to begin with)

I wouldn't say that changing the natural selection process is a concern on the scale of cloning we are talking about...

Samoseus · Post by **Samoseus** » December 28, 2002, 7:01 am

Hmmm

Cloning if not taken carefully can be dangerous and totally change the way we live in my view...

What if your clone was chosen by some council or commitee to become the better version of you and that you were judged to be destroyed instead as the faulty defective model for the quest of the perfect society?

Someone already tried to create the perfect society and wipe the rest out once but he failed....

This whole clone shit kinda reminds me of that Arnold movie "The Sixth Day" or Jet Li's movie "The One"

I know that I may never be the best person that my family and friends think I can be, but I will still try even though I probably wont ever succeed....

And for the rest that dont like me or how I am...Fuck You! Like I give a shit....

Concerning my future clones LOL.....If that day ever came, I will hunt them down and kill them all one by one or die trying....

Samoseus

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » December 28, 2002, 8:17 am

Excellent. I hope this becomes readily available in the next 5 years or so. It is the primary thing I have been waiting to see the last few years instead of adopting.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » December 28, 2002, 10:13 am

Aaeamdar wrote:Excellent. I hope this becomes readily available in the next 5 years or so. It is the primary thing I have been waiting to see the last few years instead of adopting.

brilliant fucking brilliant.. yes instead of adopting kids who need it lets just make a clone of mommy and daddy and leave the rest of the kids that need parents in foster care or with parents that don't love them.. A child doesn't ASK to be born and they certainly don't get to choose their parents when they are.. so screw them right? and whose to say those cloned kids won't end up with fucked up parents and end up.... needing to be adopted..

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » December 28, 2002, 12:25 pm

I am all for cloning organs.
The sheer number of lives that could be saved by this is astronomical. Your liver goes bad? Fine, we'll make a new one for you. Need a heart transplant? Give us a week, and you're set. Lose an eye? A finger? A lung? No problem.

I cannot in good consciousness turn down any medical opperation or procedure that does not require the loss of human life to save one.

However. The idea of using this to just grow a double of yourself "just because", is insane. All joking aside, I can't say I want more than one of me running around. I am also STRONGLY against cloning a full body for the purpose of killing it to harvest organs. And I FULLY agree with what Ajran said - cloning yourself to not have to do an adoption is PATHETIC - if you can't concieve, adopt, if you want one that badly. I am sure that there's a kid that wants you just as bad.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » December 28, 2002, 6:23 pm

Often when someone posts something as outlandish as say, forgoing adoption in favor of cloning, it's safe to assume it's SARCASM.

Christ, come on

Thumbs up on clone research in the US and elsewhere. If we don't do it, someone else will. May as well reap the benefits, you can't change or halt the progression of science.

Destinae- · Post by **Destinae-** » December 28, 2002, 6:37 pm

Cloning babies for sterile couples? Isn't the fact that they're sterile a huge fucking warning sign that cloning them may be a bad idea in the long run?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » December 28, 2002, 6:55 pm

Could I swap out my penis v.1 for a copy of Peter North's unit? Talk about an upgrade...

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » December 30, 2002, 2:45 pm

Cloning is pointless when we could make babies with better muscle attachments (IE stronger lb for lb), resistant to ilnness and grow 8ft tall....with above average intelligence.

An intelligent person would ask for a super baby, I mean why would I want my child to be just like me when I could ask for a baby that's stronger, faster, healtier, smarter?

Only an idiot or egomaniac would ask for a clone.

That's all we need are clones of idiots and egomaniacs.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Have they even fixed the Telomere problem? (spelling?)

You know where the DNA can only be divided so many times before it peters out...it's like the plastic casing at the end of a shoe string...you can snip a little off at a time....but after a while the plastic casing is gone and it begins to fray. That plastic casing on a shoestring is the telomeres on a strand of DNA.

Previous clonings have made duplicates of the original, but the telemeres were the length of the original copy. Thus the copy is going to have some issues.

Krindol · Post by **Krindol** » December 30, 2002, 3:05 pm

Let us pretend for a moment that this baby clone is not utter bullshit, and that they are actually able to produce a human via cloning that is at least physically/mentally sound for the most part.

What happens when these "people" start to enter society? I mean, say you are a clone, and you want to get a job? Will you need to submit something that says you are a clone to your employer? Doctor?

Do you think the public has a right to know if they are living/working next to a clone?

Do you think that since a clone will be a 100% match for DNA tests, that they will need to be "marked" to tell the original from the copy?

Lots of odd questions to be answered....

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 30, 2002, 3:15 pm

Make humans the proper fucking way and get laid mister scientists kthxbye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » December 31, 2002, 6:25 am

Actually, Rekkar, no it was not sarcasm. Adoption is a PITA. Moreso if you are gay. Look into it sometime if you like. There are a whole host of potential problems, not the least of which is that many states will actually find in favor of a genetic parent's claim of custody or visitation after adoption. Even those that do not will at least hear arguements. If I do decide to adopt, the choice would most certainly have to be an out of country adoption, like China. Being the parent of a clone, assuming it becomes readily available, is a very attractive alternative to having to justify to some bureaucrat that I am a fit parent.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 31, 2002, 8:23 am

new favorite defense .. it wasn't me it was my clone

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » December 31, 2002, 3:47 pm

If your wife can't have babies, see if she will let you fuck her sister or cousin.

Don't make clones.

BTW this clone is supossedly in a womans uterous atm if I read correctly. Most women that can carry a child to term can use an egg or sperm donor already to have children. My guess is they implanted a fertilized egg in her womb, much as they do with any other current process, they just "fertilized" it different....

So that makes your clone argument weak.

One nice thing about the current breeding process is that as the years go on bloodlines get thin so you don't have inbreeding issues. But if say I have 5 kids, all exact clones of myself...none of my wifes DNA involved. Well rather then diluting my DNA in our pool...I just concentrated it. Let's say my 5 kids each have 3 clones made...see my DNA is still 100% and now there are 15 of me. Each of tem make 2 clones...now there are 30 of me....exact duplicates DNA wise.

So where as if you have babies the normal way there would still be 30 kids in your bloodline....each of those kids would be only 12.5% of my DNA or so...because of all the mothers DNA over those 3 generations dilutes it.

So let's say you and your sister start cloning yourselves.....do you know who your great great great grandfather was? And all thier line going down to where you are now, all the branches? No? Well you and your sisters kids 5 generations down the road won't either.

Kinda weird eh? If you clone yourselves and then people down the road meet up, they are having like direct incest....that would be like you boinking your sister.

What's weirder is with a small modification you could make an almost exact duplicate, only the opposite sex. So like I could make a female clone of myself. That would be freaky, not only freaky for me, when she brings them home for dinner, it will be freaky for thier dates as well. If that ever did happen I'd make sure to put my hand on thier kneee, wink, and say "hey big boy" because that way I could easily get rid of any unwanted men around my daughter.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » January 1, 2003, 4:24 am

The most terrifying aspect of the damnded thing is the loss of diversity.

Farmers learned about 20 years ago that genetically-altered corn was not going to save the world. Why? Well, at one point we had almost 70% of the world's corn crop traceable to just seven strains of corn. That's seven genetic 'ancestors' if you like.

Then the blights hit.

Since all of this corn had the same genetic immunities, once a strain hit one field it spread like mad and decimated corn crops all over the planet.

Now apply that to humans.

Support cloning and you are playing russian roulette with the future of the species. Just like comet theory, you can argue about how many years, generations or eons we have until the right strain hits. Every time you clone, you remove a combination from our species gene pool.

This scares the living bejeebus outta me. I'm normally a fanatic for scientific process, but this is one area that needs to be left the hell alone until we have a few more milennia to untangle and understand the human genome.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » January 1, 2003, 10:26 am

I figured fallanthas would like it. A few generations of cloning the same person might even produce someone you can feel superior to on a genetic level.