He actually said $4/litre w/in about 3-4 years.. in a radio interview. I think that works out as about $11-12US/gallon.Oil chief predicts $3 a litre petrol
A senior Iranian oil executive has predicted the price of petrol in Australia will reach $3 a litre within three years as international oil prices hit new record highs.
Dr Ali Samsam Baktiari made the prediction while addressing a conference in Perth called "Oil - Living with Less".
Dr Baktiari is a chief adviser to the National Iranian Oil Company.
He says world production of oil will peak by 2007 at 82 million barrels a day.
"I don't think the world can pump much more than that, and any happening that will disrupt the slightest supply will send shock waves across the world and impact on the oil price," he said.
Fuel Banks - best short term investment you can make?
Fuel Banks - best short term investment you can make?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 ... 172902.htm
- Bubba Grizz
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Re: Fuel Banks - best short term investment you can make?
litre? petrol? wtf are you talking about? In english please!Zaelath wrote:Oil chief predicts $3 a litre petrol
That's $11.35 a gallon. That will hit home a little more.
These kind of predictions come along regularly.
They always seem to ignore the resourcefulness and dynamism of human beings.
For example, years of crop surpluses here in Wisconsin could be used to produce methanol and ethanol.
The price of oil will in fact go up, I don't dispute that, but the human race will find ways to compensate.
They always seem to ignore the resourcefulness and dynamism of human beings.
For example, years of crop surpluses here in Wisconsin could be used to produce methanol and ethanol.
The price of oil will in fact go up, I don't dispute that, but the human race will find ways to compensate.
You do know that the fertilizers and *-cides used to grow those crops come from oil right?Metanis wrote:These kind of predictions come along regularly.
They always seem to ignore the resourcefulness and dynamism of human beings.
For example, years of crop surpluses here in Wisconsin could be used to produce methanol and ethanol.
The price of oil will in fact go up, I don't dispute that, but the human race will find ways to compensate.
You do know that the plastics that those crops are packaged in at the supermarket come from oil right?
Not to mention the pertol used to plow the fields and transport the goods from A to B, nor the oil that is used at the power plant to provide the electricity.
I am not questioning the resourcefullness of humanity, but the challenge is much larger than it initially appears.
[65 Storm Warden] Archeiron Leafstalker (Wood Elf) <Sovereign>RETIRED
I think the human race will probably survive this challenge.archeiron wrote:You do know that the fertilizers and *-cides used to grow those crops come from oil right?Metanis wrote:These kind of predictions come along regularly.
They always seem to ignore the resourcefulness and dynamism of human beings.
For example, years of crop surpluses here in Wisconsin could be used to produce methanol and ethanol.
The price of oil will in fact go up, I don't dispute that, but the human race will find ways to compensate.
You do know that the plastics that those crops are packaged in at the supermarket come from oil right?
Not to mention the pertol used to plow the fields and transport the goods from A to B, nor the oil that is used at the power plant to provide the electricity.
I am not questioning the resourcefullness of humanity, but the challenge is much larger than it initially appears.

According to a Cornell College study ethanol has been determined to use more gasoline than it supplies. I do believe mankind is able to conquer the problem of dependance of fossil fuels, however the progress being made is too slow. Drilling more oil might help the situation for the short term, but funding should mostly be going to researching alternative fuels, etc. Yes, gasoline is going to continue to be going up and a 100 dollar rebate isn't going to help the problem at all..
I'm going to live forever or die trying
The milage differences on E85 are pathetic too: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml
15% ethanol == 25% less mileage So, apparently, ethanol has a negative power output!? And costs you 10% more per year to use...
Yeah, there's your alternative (even ignoring that you can't produce enough of the shit to supply the American market if you planted the entire planet with sugar cane).
15% ethanol == 25% less mileage So, apparently, ethanol has a negative power output!? And costs you 10% more per year to use...
Yeah, there's your alternative (even ignoring that you can't produce enough of the shit to supply the American market if you planted the entire planet with sugar cane).
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
yeah, when looking at alternate fuels to burn, you must look at their BTU output per gallon (or whatever size).
Gasoline per gallon is like ~120,000 BTU's, while ethanol is like 80,000 BTU's....so you are losing ~40,000 BTU's worth of energy to power the engine...so yes, it is less effective at combustion, using more per mile of roadway.
If the engine is setup to run purely on one of these other fuels, you would see the advantage. The problem with GMC's E85 engines, is that they MUST be set up to run off of gasoline too....which destroys the E85 efficiency. Another example of this is that natural gas car engines are also setup to run off of gasoline...destroying their effciency as well.
Infrastructure is the key here....without the infrastructure to support a different type of fuel, all cars will be running off of gasoline indefinitely.
Gasoline per gallon is like ~120,000 BTU's, while ethanol is like 80,000 BTU's....so you are losing ~40,000 BTU's worth of energy to power the engine...so yes, it is less effective at combustion, using more per mile of roadway.
If the engine is setup to run purely on one of these other fuels, you would see the advantage. The problem with GMC's E85 engines, is that they MUST be set up to run off of gasoline too....which destroys the E85 efficiency. Another example of this is that natural gas car engines are also setup to run off of gasoline...destroying their effciency as well.
Infrastructure is the key here....without the infrastructure to support a different type of fuel, all cars will be running off of gasoline indefinitely.
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According to the 60 Minutes and Dateline reports from Sunday night, it looked like the E85 stuff was going to be a viable fuel source. From its widespread use in Brazil to the fact that people like Vinod Khosla are on board, it sure seems to me like just looking at the numbers posted above isn't taking enough information into account.
Not that I would suggest that oil companies with no proven ties to the government would be pressuring anyone to keep the status quo after a record-setting year of profits.
Yes, ethanol is less efficient than gasoline, it's also cheaper to produce and a renewable resource. According to that Khosla guy, we're also very close to being able to produce better ethanol. I think 60 minutes mentioned a process they're working on to distill it from cellulose (not sure if that's the same thing Khosla was talking about on Dateline), which would make allow it to be produced from any sort of plant matter.
Not that I would suggest that oil companies with no proven ties to the government would be pressuring anyone to keep the status quo after a record-setting year of profits.

Yes, ethanol is less efficient than gasoline, it's also cheaper to produce and a renewable resource. According to that Khosla guy, we're also very close to being able to produce better ethanol. I think 60 minutes mentioned a process they're working on to distill it from cellulose (not sure if that's the same thing Khosla was talking about on Dateline), which would make allow it to be produced from any sort of plant matter.
I'm not saying ethanol is the definite answer to our problems, but I'm pretty interested in seeing where it goes.Dateline wrote:At age 51, Vinod Khosla is one of the world’s most successful venture capitalists and a self-made multibillionaire.
He came to the U.S. from India in 1976, and over the next 25 years, is said to have created six new jobs for every day he’d been in the country. Though not a household name, Khosla was a co-founder of Sun Microsystems and renowned in business circles for his meticulous research and ability to spot the kind of innovative technology that can revolutionize an industry.
Three years ago, he turned his attention to alternative fuels.
Khosla: What could be better than a greener fuel that’s cheaper for consumers, that doesn’t feed Mideast terrorism, yet instead fuels rural America?
He’s talking about a new generation of ethanol— the fuel made from plants. It’s one fuel he says is just around the corner and will deliver 4 to 10 times the energy of today’s corn ethanol. Khosla knows, because he’s talked to top scientists, visited labs and he’s a bio-medical engineer himself. He believes this new ethanol can replace gasoline and eliminate America’s dependence on foreign oil.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant." - Barack Obama
Go Blue!
Go Blue!
There are numerous reasons that gas prices are gettign higher. Here is another one. China limits how much gas companies can charge in their country for oil. This makes the gas prices rise for other countries as China demands more and more fuel.
Another issue is that americans need to stop buying big cars. Who the fuck needs 400 HP when the majority of the country has a speed limit of 65 MPH? A study was done that showed that the average american could get by just fine with a car that only had 7 HP.
Ethanol is a good alternative to gasoline and if it was supported more then it would cost less to make and drive further research into its uses. I know a guy who is an awesome mechanic and he has been using E85 in one of his clunkers for months to see what the effects would be on it. He has had no car problems at all. Now I wouldn't recommend this to anyone that doesn't knwo waht they are doing but I think it shows that the car and gas companies are doing everything they can to limit use of alternative techs.
Besides Ethanol, their are biodiesel engines that are just as efficient as regular diesel engines. I have no idea whther Ethanol or Vegetable oil is easier to make though.
Another issue is that americans need to stop buying big cars. Who the fuck needs 400 HP when the majority of the country has a speed limit of 65 MPH? A study was done that showed that the average american could get by just fine with a car that only had 7 HP.
Ethanol is a good alternative to gasoline and if it was supported more then it would cost less to make and drive further research into its uses. I know a guy who is an awesome mechanic and he has been using E85 in one of his clunkers for months to see what the effects would be on it. He has had no car problems at all. Now I wouldn't recommend this to anyone that doesn't knwo waht they are doing but I think it shows that the car and gas companies are doing everything they can to limit use of alternative techs.
Besides Ethanol, their are biodiesel engines that are just as efficient as regular diesel engines. I have no idea whther Ethanol or Vegetable oil is easier to make though.
Deward
if we stopped gearing our cars to run 0-45 in 2 seconds between stoplights then the lower output wouldn't be as large a factor.
Probably a major factor that will assist a change in automobile alternative power is changing the way people drive. A common criticism of econoboxes and hybrids is that they don't accelerate fast enough, or have a low top speed.
Who gives a fuck if you can't drag race between the lights, and do you really need a car that goes above 85?
People are unwilling to change, they want something to replace what they have now, without inconveneincing them in any way. That includes, price, availability, output, etc. etc.
Like doing 75 or 80 on the morning commute really shaves off so much time of your morning commute. (We won't even get into the traffic problems created by accidents that could be avoided by a lower cruising speed). People simply cannot comprehend commuting at 55. Even if their fuel economy were improved 300%.
Probably a major factor that will assist a change in automobile alternative power is changing the way people drive. A common criticism of econoboxes and hybrids is that they don't accelerate fast enough, or have a low top speed.
Who gives a fuck if you can't drag race between the lights, and do you really need a car that goes above 85?
People are unwilling to change, they want something to replace what they have now, without inconveneincing them in any way. That includes, price, availability, output, etc. etc.
Like doing 75 or 80 on the morning commute really shaves off so much time of your morning commute. (We won't even get into the traffic problems created by accidents that could be avoided by a lower cruising speed). People simply cannot comprehend commuting at 55. Even if their fuel economy were improved 300%.
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once the prices get high enough to actually hurt then people will start reacting to the pain, until then nothing will change. unfortunately that will require an energy crisis, but we've seen it happen before in history. It wasnt too long ago that insulation in homes and business wasn't seen as a necessity and every family owned a ten ton sedan.
Of course none of that matters, because fuel is only a small part of a bigger problem
Of course none of that matters, because fuel is only a small part of a bigger problem
I TOLD YOU ID SHOOT! BUT YOU DIDNT BELIEVE ME! WHY DIDNT YOU BELIEVE ME?
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Back when I lived in Tampa Bay, there were a LOT of people who commuted 40 miles each way. That's not too bad, because I-75 is a 70 MPH road, which means it's a 40 minute commute. Move that down to 55, and you make that shit almost 2 hours.
Also, I'd just LOVE to see you fuckers merge onto a 80 MPH freeway with a 7 HP engine.
I'm not saying that oil is it, but some of the shit you people are talking is 100% pure nonsense.
Also, I'd just LOVE to see you fuckers merge onto a 80 MPH freeway with a 7 HP engine.
I'm not saying that oil is it, but some of the shit you people are talking is 100% pure nonsense.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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masteen wrote:Back when I lived in Tampa Bay, there were a LOT of people who commuted 40 miles each way. That's not too bad, because I-75 is a 70 MPH road, which means it's a 40 minute commute. Move that down to 55, and you make that shit almost 2 hours.
Also, I'd just LOVE to see you fuckers merge onto a 80 MPH freeway with a 7 HP engine.
I'm not saying that oil is it, but some of the shit you people are talking is 100% pure nonsense.
It's more like... who the fuck needs a 3 ton sedan/SUV with a fucking v10 or a hemi when 90% of the time it's used to haul one fucking person to and from work.
Low end HP for compacts and subcompacts is around 90-100... with acceleration times around 10 secs for 0-60. Twenty years ago, the 10 second benchmark was considered decent for a family car. No current compact will have difficulty maintaining a speed of 120-130 on the highway. And these cars are getting 3-4 times the fuel economy compared to American style cars
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
Whoa. v = d / tMasteen wrote:Back when I lived in Tampa Bay, there were a LOT of people who commuted 40 miles each way. That's not too bad, because I-75 is a 70 MPH road, which means it's a 40 minute commute. Move that down to 55, and you make that shit almost 2 hours.
1 miles/minute = 60 miles/hour
60 m/h = 40miles / 40minutes.
55 m/h = 40miles / 43.6minutes
It would be a 40 minute commute if the speed limit was 60 MPH (and if it was adhered to). Altering the speed limit to 55 MPH would change that to a ~ 43 minute commute. Maybe there was a big gravy part of your post that I was missing, or are you speaking of some intangible that would theoretically cause a two hour commute to happen?
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My 52hp VW diesel does just fine commuting, you just need to plan a little more merging and changing lanes so you don't get run over. Not sure what top speed is, the governor cuts out at 5400rpm though. About 75-80 at a guess. I usually run at 65 on the highway.Deward wrote:Another issue is that americans need to stop buying big cars. Who the fuck needs 400 HP when the majority of the country has a speed limit of 65 MPH? A study was done that showed that the average american could get by just fine with a car that only had 7 HP.
>>snip
Besides Ethanol, their are biodiesel engines that are just as efficient as regular diesel engines. I have no idea whther Ethanol or Vegetable oil is easier to make though.
Biodiesel really isn't much cheaper to make than regular diesel most of the time, works out at about $2.75-3.00 a gallon IIRC. Over time it's a much better fuel than "real" diesel, you don't get the combustion deposits and such you do with dino fuel and it lubricates\cleans the fuel system much better.
*Edit - Folks who homebrew biodiesel from old fryer oil do it for 50-75 cents a gallon IIRC, it's not a hard process. Most do it in a corner of their garage or shed. Getting rid of the glycerin and such you seperate out is the biggest issue.
http://biowillie.com/

Waste vegetable oil (from deep fryers) is another one, it can be had for free though there's a finite supply. For about $600-1000 I could modify my VW to run it with no issues at all.
Last edited by Aabidano on May 9, 2006, 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
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- Skogen
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that's it, get out!!Truant wrote:if we stopped gearing our cars to run 0-45 in 2 seconds between stoplights then the lower output wouldn't be as large a factor.
Probably a major factor that will assist a change in automobile alternative power is changing the way people drive. A common criticism of econoboxes and hybrids is that they don't accelerate fast enough, or have a low top speed.
Who gives a fuck if you can't drag race between the lights, and do you really need a car that goes above 85?
People are unwilling to change, they want something to replace what they have now, without inconveneincing them in any way. That includes, price, availability, output, etc. etc.
Like doing 75 or 80 on the morning commute really shaves off so much time of your morning commute. (We won't even get into the traffic problems created by accidents that could be avoided by a lower cruising speed). People simply cannot comprehend commuting at 55. Even if their fuel economy were improved 300%.
miir wrote:masteen wrote:Back when I lived in Tampa Bay, there were a LOT of people who commuted 40 miles each way. That's not too bad, because I-75 is a 70 MPH road, which means it's a 40 minute commute. Move that down to 55, and you make that shit almost 2 hours.
Also, I'd just LOVE to see you fuckers merge onto a 80 MPH freeway with a 7 HP engine.
I'm not saying that oil is it, but some of the shit you people are talking is 100% pure nonsense.
It's more like... who the fuck needs a 3 ton sedan/SUV with a fucking v10 or a hemi when 90% of the time it's used to haul one fucking person to and from work.
Low end HP for compacts and subcompacts is around 90-100... with acceleration times around 10 secs for 0-60. Twenty years ago, the 10 second benchmark was considered decent for a family car. No current compact will have difficulty maintaining a speed of 120-130 on the highway. And these cars are getting 3-4 times the fuel economy compared to American style cars
Towing This

Would not be fun with:

Its a lot better with this:

- Aabidano
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The funny part is most Americans who buy a tow vehicle get something that's very shitty at it. That large displacement\short stroke gas engine (Hemis, V10s, etc..) they push on commercials are only good for penis jousting rights, they're absolute ass for towing or off road use. Shitty mileage too no matter what you're doing with them.
If you aren't buying the Cummins diesel in that Dodge you're an idiot, and a slack jawed drooling idiot if you ever actually use it a truck (and didn't get the diesel).
If you aren't buying the Cummins diesel in that Dodge you're an idiot, and a slack jawed drooling idiot if you ever actually use it a truck (and didn't get the diesel).
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
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Dump $1000 into this things engine and you'd be good for 250,000 miles @ 55mpg. $2000 and you could do it on waste veggie oil and have (almost) no fuel costs.
I know folks in Canada that run them all winter, don't let the cold weather diesel myths stop you
Jetta diesel on E-Bay
I know folks in Canada that run them all winter, don't let the cold weather diesel myths stop you

Jetta diesel on E-Bay
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
Masteen, something isn't right with your math there, i'm too lazy to do breakdowns right now (i had an 8am final). Also, I understand and agree with you with regards to trying to comprehend merging into 80mph traffic with a small powered engine. But, the main point of my post was that the highways have absolutely no intelligent reason to be 80mph.
People driving 80mph in cruisers on their commute are not only getting worse fuel economy than they would at 60-65. but they're only saving MAYBE 5-6 minutes tops assuming a pretty long (50 mile) commute. We won't even get into whether or not the higher speed of the commuters contributes to more traffic accidents which causes further delays or not. But my point was, if we didn't drive around like fucking retards with our heads up our asses all the time, the concern of trying to merge onto the highways in an econobox wouldn't be such a big deal.
Skogen,
Cart, instead of spending the money to buy a truck that will get used to tow a boat back and forth to the lake (and probably nothing else), why not do a cost comparison analysis versus renting a slip at the marina on the lake. Or hell, I think i remember you saying you OWN a lake house, why not build yourself a dock and/or boathouse. It's a bajillion times more cost effective.
People driving 80mph in cruisers on their commute are not only getting worse fuel economy than they would at 60-65. but they're only saving MAYBE 5-6 minutes tops assuming a pretty long (50 mile) commute. We won't even get into whether or not the higher speed of the commuters contributes to more traffic accidents which causes further delays or not. But my point was, if we didn't drive around like fucking retards with our heads up our asses all the time, the concern of trying to merge onto the highways in an econobox wouldn't be such a big deal.
Skogen,

Cart, instead of spending the money to buy a truck that will get used to tow a boat back and forth to the lake (and probably nothing else), why not do a cost comparison analysis versus renting a slip at the marina on the lake. Or hell, I think i remember you saying you OWN a lake house, why not build yourself a dock and/or boathouse. It's a bajillion times more cost effective.
As far as I can tell, in MN it would be very much the same as it is now. ie, the on-ramps are built for 55, you can't hit 70 without a motorcycle, and no one "merges" on freeways there, they just amble onto the road and hope you find a way to avoid them.masteen wrote: Also, I'd just LOVE to see you fuckers merge onto a 80 MPH freeway with a 7 HP engine.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
Interesting idea and it might work if you fished one lake anyways the pic was of a example.Yes I have a lake house and yes my boat sits there but I do like to take it to other lakes.Truant wrote:Masteen, something isn't right with your math there, i'm too lazy to do breakdowns right now (i had an 8am final). Also, I understand and agree with you with regards to trying to comprehend merging into 80mph traffic with a small powered engine. But, the main point of my post was that the highways have absolutely no intelligent reason to be 80mph.
People driving 80mph in cruisers on their commute are not only getting worse fuel economy than they would at 60-65. but they're only saving MAYBE 5-6 minutes tops assuming a pretty long (50 mile) commute. We won't even get into whether or not the higher speed of the commuters contributes to more traffic accidents which causes further delays or not. But my point was, if we didn't drive around like fucking retards with our heads up our asses all the time, the concern of trying to merge onto the highways in an econobox wouldn't be such a big deal.
Skogen,
Cart, instead of spending the money to buy a truck that will get used to tow a boat back and forth to the lake (and probably nothing else), why not do a cost comparison analysis versus renting a slip at the marina on the lake. Or hell, I think i remember you saying you OWN a lake house, why not build yourself a dock and/or boathouse. It's a bajillion times more cost effective.
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Well, they do that here too, only here they get creamed a lot by the asshole trying to maintain his 90MPH speed in the right hand lane.Zaelath wrote:As far as I can tell, in MN it would be very much the same as it is now. ie, the on-ramps are built for 55, you can't hit 70 without a motorcycle, and no one "merges" on freeways there, they just amble onto the road and hope you find a way to avoid them.masteen wrote: Also, I'd just LOVE to see you fuckers merge onto a 80 MPH freeway with a 7 HP engine.
The dif between a 45 min commute and a 30 minute is 65 hours a year. That's almost 3 DAYS less spent behind the wheel. Hardly insignificant.
p.s. Don't get me wrong, I'm no huge fan of long commutes by car. I was pissed when JEB axed the light rail planned between Tampa and Orlando, as that would not only have saved countless hours of commute time for people, generated revenue that the state badly needs, but also would have alleviated the clusterfuck that I-4 is from 7a-7p every fucking weekday.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt