Wonderlic Scores

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 3:32 pm

Newsflash!!!!

Vince Young is not a very smart man. Shocking huh?

His Wonderlic was a 16. That, btw, is very dumb. How dumb?

Check out this page... http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

Notice the average score of a white, "passing" QB vs. these brothas who came out in 1999...

Culpepper, Daunte
1999
Central Florida
18, 21, 15

Brooks, Aaron
1999
Virginia
17

Wright, Anthony
1999
South Carolina
16

McNabb, Donovan
1999
Syracuse
16, 12

Interesting huh? These QB's are not know for being sucessful, "passing" QB's.

McNabb had his best year with TO. Culpepper had good statistical seasons with Moss.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 3:37 pm

Oh yeah, here's your exception to the rule

Marino, Dan
1983
Pittsburgh
14

How about that shit?

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » February 27, 2006, 3:44 pm

Peyton Manning only scored a 28 on that test! That test can't be a great indication of a "smart QB".

Midnyte a USC fan?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 27, 2006, 3:53 pm

Sumdaor wrote:Midnyte a USC fan?

No, just an idiot.

Mid, do you even know what the Wonderlich test is? It's not a measure of "smarts" as much as it is a measure of problem solving ability (like something doesn't work, not math). It judges how well you can learn to do a job, and the desirable scores can differ based on where you go. Many employers have used this for years.

*I am not endorsing Vince Young's brainpower with this post, rather I am questioning Mid's.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 6:32 pm

Yes, I know what it is..thankyou.

Why am I an idiot this time? hehe

I've done nothing but offer up some facts. Why do these offend you so much? You one of those white people carrying around the slave guilt still? You go ahead and be a Vick and Young apologist all your life and we'll count how many Superbowls they win.

Smart, problem-solving, quick thinking QB's will make good field generals, will read defenses well....which will allow them a better chance at being a good NFL QB assuming they can throw the ball. Vince Young has sucked at both thus far.
It is my opinion that Vince Young is the most overhyped player in the draft in NFL history.

Post by **Sylvus** » February 27, 2006, 6:56 pm

Notice the average score of a white, "passing" QB vs. these brothas who came out in 1999...

Holy shit, how racist are you trying to be?

At least this is the first thread you've started in this forum lately that didn't have the word "niggas" in the title. I'm not sure if this one is a step up or a step down though.

Vince Young has sucked at both thus far.
It is my opinion that Vince Young is the most overhyped player in the draft in NFL history.

Vince Young almost single-handedly won the two bowl games he appeared in, how you can make a statement like that is beyond me.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » February 27, 2006, 6:57 pm

You're an idiot because you didn't bother reading the paper that was cited in your own link.

This article presents an empirical analysis of the relationships between intelligence and both passing performance in college and compensation in the National Football League (NFL). A group of 84 drafted and signed quarterbacks from 1989 to 2004 was selected for the study. The author hypothesizes that intelligence is the most important and perhaps most rewarded at this position, and a wide variety of passing performance statistics are available to separate the effects of intelligence and ability. The OLS-estimated models reveal no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and collegiate passing performance. Likewise, the author finds no evidence of higher compensation in the NFL for players with higher intelligence as measured by the Wonderlic Personnel Test administered at the NFL Scouting Combine.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 27, 2006, 7:24 pm

Xyphir wrote:You're an idiot because you didn't bother reading the paper that was cited in your own link.

This article presents an empirical analysis of the relationships between intelligence and both passing performance in college and compensation in the National Football League (NFL). A group of 84 drafted and signed quarterbacks from 1989 to 2004 was selected for the study. The author hypothesizes that intelligence is the most important and perhaps most rewarded at this position, and a wide variety of passing performance statistics are available to separate the effects of intelligence and ability. The OLS-estimated models reveal no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and collegiate passing performance. Likewise, the author finds no evidence of higher compensation in the NFL for players with higher intelligence as measured by the Wonderlic Personnel Test administered at the NFL Scouting Combine.

ding ding ding

That's why you're an idiot mid. I clicked on the link you had wondering if there was some new magical Wonderlic exam that actually measured intelligence/smarts. There isn't. It's the same test you take if you want to get a job with most corporations in America.

You implied that the white qb's were "smarter" than the black ones. Wow, you're looking awful "smart" too, ain't ya? Oh, and I have no reason to carry any "slave guilt" since my family wasn't even in the US during those years. Implying that I have "slave guilt" since I don't agree with you just shows that you need to go pick that robe back up at the cleaners. I think they remembered to put starch in the hat for you too.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 9:37 pm

Wow. You guys are so sensitive. White QB's are better than black QB's. White QB's are smarter than black QB's. How are those comments racist?

Based off of this information, prove me wrong. LOL

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 27, 2006, 9:48 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow. You guys are so sensitive. White QB's are better than black QB's. White QB's are smarter than black QB's. How are those comments racist?

Based off of this information, prove me wrong. LOL

knock knock dumbass...anybody home? This test does not prove "intelligence."

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 10:27 pm

Yeah, except it does though. Why do they give the test ya think? huh?

Wonderlic Personnel Test

Easy to use measure of mental abilities
The Wonderlic Personnel Testprovides an excellent overall index of general intelligence. Quick and effective, the WPT is designed for today’s employer.

What it measures
The Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT)is an established test of general intelligence used for selection and placement of business personnel and for vocational guidance. The WPT measures an individual’s ability to learn, adapt, solve problems, and understand instructions. It is a valid predictor of future job performance, and may be used for positions ranging from routine to complex.

Applications
Selection for recruitment, training, development or promotion
Selection for projects or assignments

Benefits
Reduces selection errors
Predicts job performance
Reduces turnover and training time
Can be completed in 12 minutes
Consists of verbal numerical, analytical and spatial relations questions

Ya think maybe intelligence figures in there a bit? hmmm?

rofl

noel · Post by **noel** » February 27, 2006, 10:46 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Notice the average score of a white, "passing" QB vs. these brothas who came out in 1999...
Holy shit, how racist are you trying to be?

I'm thinking he's in some contest on his Aryan Nation board to try and see how many racist threads he can make on an 'unpure' board.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 27, 2006, 10:47 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah, except it does though. Why do they give the test ya think? huh?

A company I used to work for actually used it to keep minorities out. They admitted that. There have been allegations of the test itself being biased for years. I took it and I recognize where those who are basically "programmed" to do one thing their whole life won't do well at it. The range of items you have to know in order to score high on that test is just as stupid as using the test specifically to keep minorities out.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 27, 2006, 10:49 pm

Hey Midnyte...

Off the top of my head:
Grant Hill
David Robinson

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 11:10 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah, except it does though. Why do they give the test ya think? huh?

A company I used to work for actually used it to keep minorities out. They admitted that. There have been allegations of the test itself being biased for years. I took it and I recognize where those who are basically "programmed" to do one thing their whole life won't do well at it. The range of items you have to know in order to score high on that test is just as stupid as using the test specifically to keep minorities out.

It is only accidentally racially biased. If you think for two seconds you will realize that the majority of blacks still grow up very poor and thus recieve a lack luster education either because of the school districts in poor neiborhoods or because poor families primary concerns are often not education, they are survival. Also you have to consider the percentage of single parent families the black child has going against them as well, which makes it harder for a single parent to instill everything a child needs to guide them through development.

So, the tests are more or less, wealth biased. Then again there are plenty of rich dumb people too.

Aevian Dreaklear · Post by **Aevian Dreaklear** » February 27, 2006, 11:30 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Newsflash!!!!

Vince Young is not a very smart man. Shocking huh?

His Wonderlic was a 16. That, btw, is very dumb. How dumb?

Check out this page... http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

Notice the average score of a white, "passing" QB vs. these brothas who came out in 1999...

Culpepper, Daunte
1999
Central Florida
18, 21, 15

Brooks, Aaron
1999
Virginia
17

Wright, Anthony
1999
South Carolina
16

McNabb, Donovan
1999
Syracuse
16, 12

Interesting huh? These QB's are not know for being sucessful, "passing" QB's.

McNabb had his best year with TO. Culpepper had good statistical seasons with Moss.

What is the point that you are trying to make? That a low score means a scrambling QB/non pocket passer? Or are you saying these black QBs who scored low are bad NFL QBs? Compare the players you have listed from 1999 along with the others from that year. The rest of the QBs have played miserably compared to the "brothas" you've listed. The score on the test has a weak corrolation to NFL success at best. I just see this as another thread for you to spew your prejudice.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2006, 11:37 pm

I use slang words to cause this exact reaction and yes I was trying to say that many black QB's suck and that these test results are yet another reason why.

I do not believe all QB's suck. I do not believe it truly has anything to do with thier skin color, but more so the fact they grow up under shitty circumstances, poor, with single parents, etc. No this is not everyone. Just a big chunk of them. As more intelligent and athletic black QB's come along they will prove to be just as good at the QB postion. Right now though, the media needs to stop over hyping the"athletic" black QB and turn their attention to the faults, so kids growing up and learn that it isn't just about being able to run the ball, but a QB needs to be smart and be able to throw the ball well.

Just an opinion though.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2006, 1:22 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I do not believe all QB's suck. I do not believe it truly has anything to do with thier skin color, but more so the fact they grow up under shitty circumstances, poor, with single parents, etc.

well, that explains why you aren't a quarterback.

dude, how small is your dick anyway?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 28, 2006, 9:28 am

ummm......yeah....that made sense Kyo. /boggle

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 28, 2006, 9:57 am

I am pretty sure that Lily Putian is saying that you have a small wee-wee because you are a white guy.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 28, 2006, 11:01 am

It is certainly noy big by any means. But,I fail to see how my dick has anything to do with the topic at hand. But, then again when people on these boards have nothing to add to any conversation they usually resort to these things.

Crav · Post by **Crav** » February 28, 2006, 2:05 pm

Honestly there should be a message board Wonderlic. In any case it's pointless to argue this out. Vince Young is going to be drafted and hopefully the team that gets him will develop him. We will see in a few years if he can be a good NFL QB, I don't know if he can or can't. What I do know is that he changed the fate of the Texas football program, for so many we could not win the big game. It wasn't his running or his throwing that did that, it was his will to win, when he was in the game you just knew he wasn't going to let Texas lose. That ability can't be measured by any paper test.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 28, 2006, 3:44 pm

Yes, everyone will continue to close their eyes and run straight into the wall again. They will make Vince Young a millionaire and he will be another Michael Vick....if he's lucky.

Unreal.

Post by **Sylvus** » February 28, 2006, 3:57 pm

What, a starting NFL QB who is exciting to watch, brings in a lot of money for the franchise and has won some ballgames? What the fuck are you expecting, you know how many QBs in the league are Tom Brady? One. Talk to me after next year and I'll let you know if Ben Roethlisberger is another. Donovan McNabb has made it to a Super Bowl, that's more than you can say for Peyton Manning.

You mentioned 4 black QBs, 3 of whom are starters in the NFL. How many shitty white QBs have been drafted in that same period of time? What did those guys get on their Wonderlic? I'd take any of those people you mentioned, including Vince Young, over Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, or Cade McNown. That's off the top of my head, I'd probably take most of them over several other starting QBs in that same period.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 28, 2006, 4:30 pm

I'm just not seeing the part where Vince Young is a bad passer. He looked great both running and passing the ball.

I'd love to see Vince Young in Arizona although it looks like the Cardinals are going with Kurt Warner (just resigned him) for another year or two while we fill in some other holes.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 28, 2006, 4:32 pm

over Joey Harrington

Dare not mention his name in a football thread.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » February 28, 2006, 5:58 pm

Winnow wrote:I'm just not seeing the part where Vince Young is a bad passer. He looked great both running and passing the ball.

I'd love to see Vince Young in Arizona although it looks like the Cardinals are going with Kurt Warner (just resigned him) for another year or two while we fill in some other holes.

Arizona's Holes

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2006, 9:46 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:ummm......yeah....that made sense Kyo. /boggle

what part didn't make sense to you? the part where I called you stupid or the part where I insinuated that your overt racism against african americans stems from your general feelings of inadequacy when you compare yourself to one; starting at the size of your tiny little dick but not even coming close to ending there?

which part should I explain in more detail?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 28, 2006, 10:53 pm

/sigh

Yes, I am but an angry man with a tiny penis. Yes, wow, you sure got it all figured out. Way to avoid yet another discussion Kyocunt. Well done. Have you ever once just participated in a topic at hand without muddying up the waters with your inane bullshit? Ever?

The facts are black Qb's, in general have under performed. Fact is the media has been sucking the cocks of the "athletic" black QB, like Mike Vick and now Vince Young, for no reason at all. They are show men....entertainers, but they are lousy QB's.

The reason why may be partially found in there intelligence levels. This may answer why they seem to be unable to read defenses as well and go through read progressions as quickly.

They may also be subpar at throwing accuracy because they are seeing images of Vick on ESPN as the protypical newage QB, when in fact they are not. They are probably concentrating on the running more than the throwing all throughout their learning years coming up through mini-football on up, etc.

Let's talk about these things.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2006, 11:12 pm

so you want me to engage in a rational argument with you when your debate topic is "niggers make shitty quarterbacks because they are stupid and poor"?

have you really self-deluded yourself so much that you think you are making any kind of point other than what a wretched little twat you are?

it could be that do have a point however. I mean, you are stupid and poor; and gauging from your embarrasingly uninformed and amateur armchair athlete points of view in this forum, you almost certainly would suck at being a quarterback.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » March 1, 2006, 12:51 am

The facts are black Qb's, in general have under performed.

I think that this is far from a fact. A black quarterback has been MVP of the league. A black quarterback has won the Super Bowl. Several black quarterbacks have played in the Super Bowl.

You're certainly right that there have been more successful white quarterbacks than black ones, but to determine whether or not black quarterbacks have underperformed would not involve simply saying "fewer black quarterbacks have won super bowls than white quarterbacks." Instead, the argument would have to be that "the percentage of black quarterbacks who have won super bowls out of the total numbers of black quarterbacks in the NFL is smaller than the percentage of white quarterbacks who have won super bowls out of the total number of white quarterbacks in the NFL." The same sort of statement would need to be made for other methods of evaluation, such as pro bowl appearances, super bowl appearances, MVP awards, etc. Would such a statement hold true? I have no idea, and neither do you (unless you're about to break out some as-of-yet unpresented statistics).

Edit: Since Doug Williams won a Super Bowl in 1988, 12 white quarterbacks have won. Has the overall ratio of white:black quarterbacks in the NFL been more or less than 12:1 during that time? You don't know. This is the sort of information that would move your argument out of the "racism and bigotry" category and into the "evidence" category.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » March 1, 2006, 10:14 am

The overall current percentage of black QB's in the NFL is 16%. There are 20 current black QB's on NFL rosters. Part of what Midnyte says is accurate. Black QB's are over-hyped by the media to try to compensate for some perceived lack of black athletes to play the position.

What happens is you have some clown like Vick being proclaimed as the QB Jesus when he will never win a Superbowl.

One reason is also what he said....those guys growing up were far superior in athletic ability to who they were playing with and would look to take over the game with that ability and never learned to be distributors of the ball......and now it is ingrained to take the ball and run than to read through progressions. It doesn't work in the NFL where the defenses are going to kill you if you take off running every snap.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » March 1, 2006, 10:32 am

Go Midnyte, you stupid racist shithead. Are all black people raised by single parents in your world? Are they all poor?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 1, 2006, 11:04 am

Lynks wrote:Go Midnyte, you stupid racist shithead. Are all black people raised by single parents in your world? Are they all poor?

R.I.F.

I never speak in "alls". Try being realistic in your comprehension. Don't be such an extremist.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 1, 2006, 11:06 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:The overall current percentage of black QB's in the NFL is 16%. There are 20 current black QB's on NFL rosters. Part of what Midnyte says is accurate. Black QB's are over-hyped by the media to try to compensate for some perceived lack of black athletes to play the position.

What happens is you have some clown like Vick being proclaimed as the QB Jesus when he will never win a Superbowl.

One reason is also what he said....those guys growing up were far superior in athletic ability to who they were playing with and would look to take over the game with that ability and never learned to be distributors of the ball......and now it is ingrained to take the ball and run than to read through progressions. It doesn't work in the NFL where the defenses are going to kill you if you take off running every snap.

Thank you Kil for being able to understand the point at hand.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » March 1, 2006, 11:51 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: I never speak in "alls". Try being realistic in your comprehension. Don't be such an extremist.

Me so sorry. Change "all" to "majority" then. You're still a stupid racist redneck. Ill do it for you.

Lynks wrote:Go Midnyte, you stupid racist shithead. Are the majority of black people raised by single parents in your world? Are the majority poor?

Try living outside of your poor excuse you call your life for one second and you will see it isnt true. I know thats asking a lot since you are probably still cowering in your basement still in fear of terrorists attacks, but try anyway. I also find it very funny/ironic that you point out R.I.F. since you can't read shit yourself (like the article you posted).

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 1, 2006, 1:14 pm

Your attacks on me and name calling are proof alone that what I am saying has truth in it. Often the truth causes such a reaction from fragile, sensitive indivuals who are afraid and resistant to realizing such things. I feel sorry for you that you are incapaable of having adult conversations.

Well, im off for a few days. I have a plane to catch, with a 1st class ticket to go down to Tampa, FL to play golf for 2 golf for two days. You know us poor rednecks are always doing such silly things. /wave

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » March 1, 2006, 1:20 pm

How is that proof? Yeah, I read what you said, you don't make sense. Ever think what you said is so incredibly wrong, that people will lash out at you for being a tool?

I just don't call anyone a "name", only those who deserve it.

Edit: BTW, if what you said isn't racist, then you would have no problem going to a black person and saying it to him.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 1, 2006, 1:42 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 1, 2006, 1:43 pm

Lynks wrote:
Edit: BTW, if what you said isn't racist, then you would have no problem going to a black person and saying it to him.

Correct. I would have no problem at all. In fact I was having the same conversation last night with the VP of the company I work for, who is black as night, about he exact same thing. He staunchly supports Vince Young and think he will be great. Fool!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » March 1, 2006, 1:48 pm

I feel sorry for you that you are incapaable of having adult conversations.

Interesting then that you completely neglected to respond to me. I'm pretty sure that I was the only person who rationally argued against your assertion that black quarterbacks suck without a bit of name-calling. I agree with you that individuals ought to be able to defend their beliefs against competing claims, and so I've done so. Pity that you have not.

Perhaps you're more comfortable responding to name-calling than rational argument.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 1, 2006, 1:51 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Your attacks on me and name calling are proof alone that what I am saying has truth in it. Often the truth causes such a reaction from fragile, sensitive indivuals who are afraid and resistant to realizing such things. I feel sorry for you that you are incapaable of having adult conversations.

Well, im off for a few days. I have a plane to catch, with a 1st class ticket to go down to Tampa, FL to play golf for 2 golf for two days. You know us poor rednecks are always doing such silly things. /wave

My lord you are an inbred dumbass, aren't you? Do you really think that spouting stereotypical racist shit and angering someone proves that the fecal matter flowing from your mouth/fingers becomes truth?

You see, people aren't all that angry about the scores themselves. They are upset over the "presentation" of your "arguments." You could come and say that Vince Young sucks, and you can be entitled to that opinion of him as a person. When you come in and say that all black qb's suck because they're dumb....you cross a line that you have no business crossing.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » March 1, 2006, 7:17 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I use slang words to cause this exact reaction and yes I was trying to say that many black QB's suck and that these test results are yet another reason why.

Using the word 'niggas' is not slang, unless you happen to be black, which you are obviously not. Try using your slang on your Veep and see what sort of reaction you get.

These test results prove absolutely nothing, and if you think that performance on this test translate to performance on the field read the paper in the link you gave.

Here's the summary

Summary and Conclusions
The market for NFL rookie quarterbacks was examined between 1989 and 2004. Attempts to model passing performance using player and team characteristics revealed statistically significant relationships between a quarterback’s collegiate passing performance and his race and teammates. Intelligence, as measured by the Wonderlic score, was statistically insignificant. Likewise, while expected relationships were found between collegiate passing performance and NFL rookie year salary, the author found no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and compensation or intelligence and draft number after controlling for passing ability. Although the models revealed no compensation for smarter players at the quarterback position, such compensation may indeed exist at other positions where such a wide variety of performance statistics are not readily available. Future studies may endeavor to control for more of the franchise- and league-specific factors that impact the drafting and compensation of collegiate athletes.

This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 2, 2006, 2:25 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Correct. I would have no problem at all. In fact I was having the same conversation last night with the VP of the company I work for, who is black as night, about he exact same thing. He staunchly supports Vince Young and think he will be great. Fool!

what a fucking lying piece of shit you are. do you really think you're fooling anyone?

VeeshanVault

Wonderlic Scores

Wonderlic Scores

Re: Wonderlic Scores