Cheney and Miller speeches

[Kluden]

Well, if you watched last night, then you know what to comment on.

I thought Dick's speech was funny, entertaining, and normal for a guy that usually turns people off with his speaking. He must have practiced an awful lot to pull that one off...he almost sounded human up there!

As for Miller. He honestly made me sick to my stomach. The man stood up there and compared The War in Iraq with WWI and WWII. He stood up there and compared W with other war presidents, like FDR. Honestly, I wanted to vomit. He stood up there and mentioned all the things Kerry has voted against funding for...but of course failed to mention the time frame, and the real reason he voted against bills. It actually pisses me off that people will believe everything he said, not knowing, as Miller stated it, "the truth".

yes, what he presented was true. But it was the exact thing that turns me off to the this particular Republican party all together...it is only half truths. Never a whole truth. In other words, he does the same stuff these nut bag conspiracy people do...only present enough of the truth to defend their point...but not the whole truth that would actually enlighten and answer completely the questions people have.

Anyways, what did you guys think? I know I'm still not convinced on who to vote for, but one things for sure, Miller and Cheney's speeches definitely help John Kerry in deciding my vote...but I'm not willing to concede yet. I'll hold out for ole' G dubya's talken' too.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Cheney was okay, but Zel was way too negative for my liking.

[Metanis]

But it was the exact thing that turns me off to the this particular Republican party all together...it is only half truths. Never a whole truth.

You prefer the fantasy world of conspiracies as spun by the Democrats? Even if you are only getting half truth from the Republicans (a point I'm not willing to concede) you are still getting more truth than from the Democrats. On their side you can't even talk about the truth because it's not politically correct.

[Kluden]

You're reading into my comments like I'm some sort of conspiracy theorist...I'm not. I'm an undecided registered voter (registered non-partisan).

No, I don't think Dubya's speaches will be filled with half truths, or John McCain's was for that matter. I'm simply stating that the two speeches last night of total negativity are the reason I don't like this republican administration very much...and that they simply boulster John kerry to me. I personally don't like John Kerry, I'm in the same basic grey area I was in 4 years ago where both candidates are crap to me.

I'm a John Edward's fan though, and he will probably be the deciding factor on my vote. If he does well with debates and what not in the coming months, he will probably earn my vote for his team...but Kerry cannot earn my vote...and neither can Cheney. So to me, it is basicly Bush v Edwards...a position I don't like being in.

And back to the half truths...if you think what Miller spewed out last night was anything but partial truths...you're the one in fantasy land.

edit: looking back at the way I stated it, I did make a generalization of the whole party...what I meant was specific to the this administration, and its re-election efforts. The smear campaign is half truths that are told to bolster an untrue statement...that's what I mean.

[Voronwë]

i thought Zell Miller's speech was embarrassing as a Georgian.

Zell Miller is and has been a political coward for years. In 1992 he started jocksniffing the conservatives because he almost lost the election for Governor over the Confederate Flag issue. Instead of standing up against racism and doing what is right, he began to cater to that very demographic by making a turn for the conservatives. Basically, following Newt Gingrich's wave.

I dont need to go into the misleading stuff, but Miller got absolutely skewered on CNN last night by Wolf Blitzer. Wolf was actually very civil to him, and Zell Miller just tied the noose put it around his neck and jumped off of the stool.

Basically all misleading propaganda about Kerry opposing certain weapons systems. The same weapons systems that Dick Cheney opposed as Sec. of Defense.

But lets don't let facts get in the way.


And as for Cheney, he did OK. I like how he repeated the "how do you think i got this job" joke, making a remark about Edwards' charisma and charm. Its a great joke and Cheney delivers it well. I think he started dragging after a good start.

I was encouraged he went back to that "Kerry says we need to make a more sensative war" rhetoric. Encouraged as a Democrat.

Because it shows that the Repubulicans are going to continue to desperately lie and mislead for the remainder of their campaign.

Why do i say that? Because Mr. Cheney himself has said we need to wage a more "sensitive war". As has Bush. As has Rumsfeld. As has Tommy Franks.


I think over the next 60+ days that sort of tactic will be exposed.

[Kluden]

For example of the half truths I speak of, see above post by VoroCNN. ^^^

[Siji]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... 4&ncid=716

NEW YORK - Hailed by Republicans as "the conscience of the Democratic Party," Georgia Sen. Zell Miller (news, bio, voting record) asserted Wednesday that Senate colleague John Kerry (news - web sites)'s indecisiveness would encourage terrorists and weaken the country's defenses.

"George Bush (news - web sites) wants to grab terrorists by the throat and not let them go to get a better grip," the Georgia senator said. "From John Kerry, they get a 'yes-no-maybe' bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends."

To a den of cheering Republicans, Miller delivered the keynote GOP address, a resounding denunciation of Kerry and the Democratic Party to which he has belonged for half a century. He enthusiastically endorsed President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election.

"I have knocked on the door of this man's soul and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel," Miller said. "The man I trust to protect my most precious possession: my family."

The partisan crowd went wild, holding up signs saying "We love Zell" and "It's Zell Miller Time," when he said "No pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry."

Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) followed Miller to the podium and said, "I'm sure glad Zell Miller is on our side."

Still, Miller said he has no plans to become a Republican — he's not seeking re-election — and his vote for Bush will be his first for a Republican in 52 years as a voter.

Miller gave the Democratic keynote address 12 years earlier in the same Madison Square Garden, and his colleagues seethed in anger — calling him a turncoat and organizing protests at his office.

Miller, meanwhile, was scathing in his criticism of fellow Democrat Kerry. He said no one had been "more wrong, more loudly, more often."

"For more than 20 years, on every one of the great issues of freedom and security, John Kerry has been more wrong, more weak and more wobbly than any other national figure," Miller said. "As a war protester, Kerry blamed our military. As a senator, he voted to weaken our military."

Miller, D-Ga., said Kerry had voted to cut key weapon systems. "This is a man who wants to be the commander in chief of our U.S. armed forces? U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?" Miller said.

In those remarks, Miller ignored the cuts in military spending that Vice President Dick Cheney pushed as defense secretary under the first President Bush. Cheney canceled the Navy F-14D Tomcat fighter and sent Congress a budget that proposed curtailing production of the B-2.

He sneered at Kerry's proposal that the United States seek consensus before going to war, with the United Nations (news - web sites) and other nations. "Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide," Miller said.

Miller, a former Marine, also accused the Democrats of putting soldiers in danger just to get at Bush.

"While young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq (news - web sites) and the mountains of Afghanistan (news - web sites), our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrats' manic obsession to bring down our commander in chief," he said.

Miller said he's standing with Bush.

"I ask which leader it is today that has the vision, the willpower, and yes, the backbone to best protect my family?" he said. "The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight. For my family is more important than my party."

This comes from the same Southern Democrat who in 1992 told the Democratic National Convention that President George H.W. Bush "doesn't get it" and that 12 years of Republicans in the White House "have robbed us of our hope."

But Miller said the current President Bush is the right man for the future.

"Right now the world cannot afford an indecisive America," Miller said. "... In this hour of danger our president has had the courage to stand up."

Republicans hoped Miller's speech would convince undecided voters and maybe some conservative Democrats that Kerry is too liberal for them. Miller has consistently sided with the Republicans on just about every issue during his Senate career.

Miller was known more for his progressive politics while Georgia governor — instituting a statewide lottery to provide free college tuition to all students with "B" averages and leading a failed attempt to remove the Confederate fighting banner from the state flag.

He insists that he hasn't changed, but the Democratic Party has.

Democrats, meanwhile, revived old nicknames like "zigzag Zell." Rep. John Lewis (news, bio, voting record), D-Ga., called his speaking to the GOP "a shame and a disgrace."

"During the time I served with Zell Miller, he never once offered a suggestion as to what we might do from a policy standpoint, all he did was cast votes for the other side," New Jersey Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Wednesday. "They could count on him every single time. He hasn't brought anything to the Democratic agenda."

Republicans, however, have treated Miller like a rock star this week. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, another Georgian, pointed to Miller as proof that the Democrats were not an inclusive party.

-------

One more idiot for the pile. Proof that it doesn't matter if you're a republican or democrat - you can still be an assclown.

[Cartalas]

""During the time I served with Zell Miller, he never once offered a suggestion as to what we might do from a policy standpoint, all he did was cast votes for the other side," New Jersey Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Wednesday. "They could count on him every single time. He hasn't brought anything to the Democratic agenda."


I dont see the problem he seems to fit in with Kerrys Flip Flop party.

[Thess]

Anyone catch hardball last night with Zell Miller on? Was hilarious.

Let me go now to the—go right now. We‘re going to joined right now as we speak, and stop speaking, with Zell Miller, the man who made the speech.

Senator, thank you. You have...

(BOOING)

MATTHEWS: Well, don‘t listen to them. Don‘t listen to those people.

We want to hear from you, Senator.

Senator, let me ask you.

(BOOING)

MATTHEWS: I want to ask you about the most powerful line in your speech. And it had so many.

“No pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.”

Do you believe that John Kerry and Ted Kennedy really only believe in defending America with spitballs?

MILLER: Well, I certainly don‘t believe they want to defend America by putting the kind of armor and the kind of equipment that we have got to have out there for our troops. I mean, nothing could be clearer than that, than what John Kerry did when he voted against that $87 billion in appropriations, that would have provided protective armor for our troops and armored vehicles.

MATTHEWS: All right, let me ask you. Senator, you are the expert. Many times, as a conservative Republican, you have had to come out on the floor and obey party whips and vote against big appropriations passed by the Democrats when they were in power.

You weren‘t against feeding poor people. You weren‘t against Social Security. You weren‘t against a lot of programs that, because of the nature of parliamentary procedure and combat, you had to vote against the whole package. Didn‘t you many times vote against whole packages of spending, when you would have gladly gone for a smaller package?

MILLER: Well, I didn‘t make speeches about them and I didn‘t put them in my platform.

Right here is what John Kerry put out as far as his U.S. Senate platform, was, he was talking about he wanted to cancel the M.X. missile, the B-1 bomber, the anti-satellite system. This is not voting for something that was in a big bill.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Which of those systems was effective in either Afghanistan

or Iraq? The M.X. certainly wasn‘t, thank God, nor was the other

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Look, this is front and—wait, this is front and back, and it‘s two pages. I have got more documentation here than they have got in the New York Public Library and the Library of Congress.

MATTHEWS: OK.

MILLER: I knew you was going to be coming with all of that stuff.

And I knew that these people from the Kerry campaign would be coming with all this kind of stuff.

That‘s just baloney. Look at the record. A man‘s record is what he is.

MATTHEWS: I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: A man‘s campaign rhetoric—what?

MATTHEWS: I‘m just asking you, Senator, do you mean to say—I know there‘s rhetoric in campaigns. I just want to know, do you mean to say that you really believe that John Kerry and Ted Kennedy do not believe in defending the country?

MILLER: Well, look at their votes.

MATTHEWS: I‘m just asking you to bottom-line it for me.

MILLER: Wait a minute. I said I didn‘t question their patriotism.

MATTHEWS: No. Do you believe that they don‘t believe in defending the country?

MILLER: I question their judgment.

What?

MATTHEWS: Do you believe they want to defend the country?

MILLER: Look, I applaud what John Kerry did as far as volunteering to go to Vietnam. I applaud what he did when he volunteered for combat. I admire that, and I respect that. And I acknowledge that. I have said that many, many times.

MATTHEWS: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: But I think his record is atrocious.

MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you, when Democrats come out, as they often do, liberal Democrats, and attack conservatives, and say they want to starve little kids, they want to get rid of education, they want to kill the old people...

MILLER: I am not saying that. Wait a minute.

MATTHEWS: That kind of rhetoric is not educational, is it?

MILLER: Wait a minute.

Now, this is your program. And I am a guest on your program.

MATTHEWS: Yes, sir.

MILLER: And so I want to try to be as nice as I possibly can to you. I wish I was over there, where I could get a little closer up into your face.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: But I don‘t have to stand here and listen to that kind of stuff. I didn‘t say anything about not feeding poor kids. What are you doing?

MATTHEWS: No, I‘m saying that when you said tonight—I just want you to...

MILLER: Well, you are saying a bunch of baloney that didn‘t have

anything to do with what I said up there on the

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: No, no.

MATTHEWS: OK. Do you believe now—do you believe, Senator, truthfully, that John Kerry wants to defend the country with spitballs? Do you believe that?

MILLER: That was a metaphor, wasn‘t it? Do you know what a metaphor is?

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you mean by a metaphor?

MILLER: Wait a minute. He certainly does not want to defend the country with the B-1 bomber or the B-2 bomber or the Harrier jet or the Apache helicopter or all those other things that I mentioned. And there were even more of them in here.

You‘ve got to quit taking these Democratic talking points and using what they are saying to you.

MATTHEWS: No, I am using your talking points and asking you if you really believe them.

MILLER: Well, use John Kerry‘s talking points from the—from what he has had to say on the floor of the Senate, where he talked about them being occupiers, where he put out this whenever he was running for the U.S. Senate about what he wanted to cancel. Cancel to me means to do away with.

MATTHEWS: Well, what did you mean by the following.

MILLER: I think we ought to cancel this interview.

MATTHEWS: Well, I don‘t mean...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Well, that would be my loss, Senator. That would be my loss.

Let me ask you about this, because I think you have a view on the role of reporters in the world. You have said and it has often been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. Was there not...

MILLER: Do you believe that?

MATTHEWS: Well, of course it‘s true.

MILLER: Do you believe that?

MATTHEWS: But it‘s a statement that nobody would have challenged. Why did you make it? It seems like no one would deny what you said. So what‘s your point?

MILLER: Well, it evidently got a rise out of you.

MATTHEWS: Well, I think it‘s a

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Because you are a reporter.

MATTHEWS: That‘s right.

MILLER: You didn‘t have anything to do with freedom of the press.

MATTHEWS: Well, you could argue it was not nurses who defended the freedom of nursing. Why did you single out freedom of the press to say it was the soldiers that defended it and not the reporters? We all know that. Why did you say it?

MILLER: Well, because I thought it needed to be said at this particular time, because I wanted to come on...

MATTHEWS: Because you could get an applause line against the media at a conservative convention.

MILLER: No, I said it because it was—you‘re hopeless. I wish I was over there.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: In fact, I wish that we lived in—I wish we lived in the

day

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: I‘ve got to warn you, we are in a tough part of town over here.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS: But I do recommend you come over, because I like you.

Let me tell you this.

MILLER: Chris.

MATTHEWS: If a Republican Senator broke ranks and—all right, I‘m sorry.

A Republican Senator broke ranks and came over and spoke for the Democrats, would you respect him?

MILLER: Yes, of course I would.

MATTHEWS: Why?

MILLER: I have seen that happen from time to time. Look, I believe...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What does Jim Jeffords say to you?

MILLER: Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Jim Jeffords switched parties after getting elected.

MILLER: If you‘re going to ask a question...

MATTHEWS: Well, it‘s a tough question. It takes a few words.

MILLER: Get out of my face.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MILLER: If you are going to ask me a question, step back and let me answer.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator, please.

MILLER: You know, I wish we...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MILLER: I wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Now, that would be pretty good.

Don‘t ask me—don‘t pull that...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Can you can come over? I need you, Senator. Please come over.

MILLER: Wait a minute. Don‘t pull that kind of stuff on me, like you did that young lady when you had her there, browbeating her to death. I am not her. I am not her.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Let me tell you, she was suggesting that John Kerry purposely shot himself to win a medal. And I was trying to correct the record.

MILLER: You get in my face, I am going to get back in your face.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: The only reason you are doing it is because you are standing way over there in Herald Square.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator, Senator, can I speak softly to you? I would really like you to...

MILLER: What? No, no, no, because you won‘t give me a chance to answer. You ask these questions and then you just talk over what I am trying to answer, just like you did that woman the other day.

MATTHEWS: Well, Senator...

MILLER: I don‘t know why I even came on this program.

MATTHEWS: Well, I am glad you did.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you this about John Kerry‘s war record.

MILLER: Well, are you going to shut up after you ask me?

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Or are you going to give me a chance to answer it?

MATTHEWS: Yes, sir.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: I am going to give you a chance to answer.

You used very strong words tonight about the Democratic candidate, much stronger than you are using with me. And they will be remembered a lot longer than anything you say to me now. So I am not really worried about what you say now, except that this country was promised unity after the last election by the president that you are supporting. And he urged the country to come together. Do you think you helped that cause tonight?

MILLER: I think I helped the cause of trying to tell the American people why John Kerry is unfit for the presidency and why we need to keep George W. Bush in as the president, because it‘s the way that we can keep this nation more secure and my family more safe.

MATTHEWS: Did I ask you about your role in the Democratic Party, because you have caused such a hit tonight, because you are a man of the Democratic Party? Long before this election, you had to watch as a Southern conservative the nomination by your party of people like George McGovern, Fritz Mondale, Jimmy Carter, liberal after liberal after liberal, including Mike Dukakis, perhaps the most liberal of them all. What caused you to cross the aisle tonight?

MILLER: By coming to Washington and seeing firsthand what a mess it is and how far out the Senate Democrats are.

They are off the chart as far as being with the mainstream of America. I think the straw that broke the camel‘s back was the homeland security measure, when, time after time, John Kerry and the Democrats put collective bargaining above homeland security. That did it for me.

MATTHEWS: Well, that did it for Max Cleland as well, didn‘t it?

MILLER: It surely did. And probably Jean Carnahan.

And nobody is to blame, except—well, they are to blame because they voted that way. But who is really to blame is Tom Daschle for insisting that they do it 11 times over a four-months period. It was dumb.

MATTHEWS: And, well, you could argue that it was politically dumb of Max Cleland to support the labor unions in Georgia against what looked like the national interests. My question is, is it good for America to impugn that vote as a vote against the security of this country?

MILLER: That vote was not impugned. He did not get defeated because of that ad that you like to talk about. You can‘t vote with Tom Daschle 85 percent of the time and be expected to be able to be reelected in Georgia. You know that much about Georgia and the South.

MATTHEWS: Well, sir, I also know the—and I completely agree with the need to get reelected as a statesman. Jefferson said the first order of a statesman was to get elected.

I am just wondering if you think tonight‘s speech and advertisements that show people like Max Cleland standing next to Saddam Hussein are helping bring this country together?

MILLER: That didn‘t have anything to do with Max Cleland‘s defeat.

We have already—we have already beat that dog to death.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Well, maybe the war did that, too.

But thank you very much for coming here tonight. I hope we can have a more civil conversation in closer terms. I would love you to come tonight. In fact, you can meet with Joe Scarborough, who will probably be nicer to you.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: But we will both try to get the truth out of the conversation.

And I feel bad that you are upset with me, Senator. I have never had this kind of a fight with you before.

MILLER: I know it.

MATTHEWS: I think you misheard me. But please come over tomorrow night. We‘ve got a convention ending.

And, by the way, you will help our ratings tremendously if you come over tomorrow night, because everybody thinks you are going to beat me up.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: But since somebody tried to do that last night, I don‘t think it‘s going to be a surprise.

WATTS: Hey, Chris, can I say

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: J.C. Watts wants to talk to you, Senator.

MILLER: All right.

WATTS: Hey, Senator, this is J.C. Watts.

MILLER: Hey, J.C.

WATTS: You can put your feet under my dinner table any day of the week.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: Thank you. Thank you.

MATTHEWS: Well, I guess everybody loves the senator.

MILLER: Good to be with you.

MATTHEWS: Hey, it‘s great having you on. Let‘s be friends. Let‘s be friends.

MILLER: See you later.

MATTHEWS: Thank you.

Well, that was unexpected turn of events.

(LAUGHTER)

[Winnow]

Zell Miller is a little looney tunes in his old age! He should have rode off into the sunset instead of accept any interviews after his speech.

I thought saying Kerry would have Paris decide when we went to war was out of line. The spitball line was something I'd expect to see on Veeshan Vault. Perhaps we should invite him over here for some debate!

This speech was squarely aimed at the right wing nut jobs!

[Metanis]

Zell Miller is a little looney tunes in his old age! He should have rode off into the sunset instead of accept any interviews after his speech.

I thought saying Kerry would have Paris decide when we went to war was out of line. The spitball line was something I'd expect to see on Veeshan Vault. Perhaps we should invite him over here for some debate!

This speech was squarely aimed at the right wing nut jobs!

I sincerely appreciated it.


On a serious note, Zell Miller... a Democrat... has been the harshest critic of Kerry during prime time at the RNC. Is that not absolutely marvelous theater?

[Thess]

In my opinion (I really am not a professional on diagnosing people!) Zell Miller seems to display a lot of symptoms of early alzheimers

[Voronwë]

LOL Miller got so destroyed by Chris Matthews "Hardball" that he suggested they should duel.

ROFLMAO

It is a shame that the man embarrassed himself on the largest stage of his political career on what will essentially be the end of that career. Miller wasn't particularly distinguished, but I'm a nice enough guy that I don't like to see a man sully a reputation he has worked for decades for in a matter of minutes.

But in cases of persons who got their start working for racists like Lester Maddux, i can make an exception.

Lester Maddux was a segregationist governor of Georgia.

[Kluden]

I'm not a professional either, but I would have to say that Voro dislikes Miller.

I don't know. I didn't see hardball, but I have seen it enough to know that the line about "duels" and shit, was probably more of a joke. THat show is very "off the cuff" if you will, and I don't think it is as mean spirited as the transcript shows.

Although, if he did mean that, sweet lord save the republicans...cause they paid a friggen psycho to endorse them...

I swear, since he is obviously a republican, I can only imagine that he will hurt the GOP more than help. I mean, obviously the rightwingers (far right) love him, cause he probably does look like a Dem to them...and for them to honestly think he did that endorsement out of the goodness in his heart...that's laughable. He either owed someone big, got blackmailed, or was paid in sex. I vote for all three! And y es, my vote can be bought too!

[Thess]

The way he said it was not in a comic way.

[Kluden]

I stand corrected, and Miller is definitely a f00ken nutbag. I mean, honestly man, who throws a shoe? and challenges people to a duel?

[Homercles]

was something I'd expect to see on Veeshan Vault.

Winnow nailed it.

I thought Zells speech was hilarious. By far the most entertaining of speeches from either convention. He was so hot headed and full of anger. Spiteful and bitter. Listening to his speech was like reading a post from VV. I laughed at some of the zingers (spitballs, Kennedy) Not because they were funny, but because they were absolutely absurd. (well...the spitball thing was funny just because Id never expect to hear a Senetor use the word)

The speech had near zero political value, but damn I found it entertaining. Just like most of the posts on this forum.

[Thess]

The republicans key note speaker last night. I don't think he threw a shoe though! (even though I think that was a joke!)

[Kluden]

Yeah, just a little Austin Powers for ya, baby, yeah!!!

[Adex_Xeda]

That's classic anger burnout.

I've noticed sometimes when people feed on their anger too much they start losing it when it comes to communication.

He was like a boiling pot ready to explode.

That kind of mentality isn't fruitful for "optimistic and upbeat" political speech.

I've been in that situation many times and every time I rode the anger buzz and opened my mouth, I ended up hurting people's feelings.

[Aruman]

I saw the replay of it and the man was definitley angry.

His presentation didn't come across as something rehearsed. I felt he meant every word he said and was not lip service.

It's hard to say what effect it will have on voters tbh. Some of the things he talked about is likely to hit home with quite a few.

[Chidoro]

...and likely to turn off quite a few

[Winnow]

...and likely to turn off quite a few

Doubtful. The speech was aimed at voters that already had the same views but may not have voted unless fired up to do so. Conservatives already acknowledge that they aren't going to get the swing votes and the only thing to do is discourage the swing voters from voting at all through apathy for the election in general.

Winning Elections 101

[Canelek]

I enjoyed the transcript of the Zell interview. As a talk show host, it is your job to keep your subject off balance in order to illicit answers that the subject may not want to divulge. The interviewer will even go as far as to put himself in mild danger for ratings.

Take a look at when Jim Rome interviews Rams QB Jim Everett several years ago. That was perfectly played by Rome.

I digress though.... that old fella must have been truly steamed. I think he expected to be given the floor--even in a less-than-friendly forum. Comedy ensued! It would have been really cool if Zell was there with Matthews during the interviewer. I can picture chair tossing galore!

[Kylere]

I demand to know where the real Dick Cheney is, and how much TeH Arnold paid a makeup man to make someone with a personality look like him.

[Aaeamdar]

Take a look at when Jim Rome interviews Rams QB Jim Everett several years ago. That was perfectly played by Rome.

You mean Chris.

[Thess]

I demand to know where the real Dick Cheney is, and how much TeH Arnold paid a makeup man to make someone with a personality look like him.

It is called plastic surgery. (no I do not know for sure but it looked like it to me)

[Canelek]

Take a look at when Jim Rome interviews Rams QB Jim Everett several years ago. That was perfectly played by Rome.

You mean Chris.

Exactamundo amigo. That had to be the best sports interview ever

[Xzion]

heh Zell Miller challenged the hardball dude to A FUCKING DUEL. Even though i would consider that 87IQ dumbshit racist the worst senator presently in power, challenging a talkshow host to a duel is pretty hardass

[Winnow]

heh Zell Miller challenged the hardball dude to A FUCKING DUEL.

Now that's old school!

Box Office proceeds for the event would go to whatever they determined was ailing Zell.

[Niffoni]

Zell was like some kind of liberal parody of neoconservativism. I'm still not totally convinced that wasn't the whole point.

[Metanis]

I have no facts to back this up but I suspect Zell Miller just delivered a fair amount of the conservative southern Democratic vote. The anger and the dueling comment won't hurt and may even help that demographic.

Even if these people can't be enticed to vote for Bush perhaps Zell has convinced them to NOT vote for Kerry?

Either way it tends to fracture Democratic unity at a time when Kerry can't afford to lose any substantial group.

If you are a Bush Backer you commend Zell for a job "well-done".

[Metanis]

I have no facts to back this up but I suspect Zell Miller just delivered a fair amount of the conservative southern Democratic vote. The anger and the dueling comment won't hurt and may even help that demographic.

Even if these people can't be enticed to vote for Bush perhaps Zell has convinced them to NOT vote for Kerry?

Either way it tends to fracture Democratic unity at a time when Kerry can't afford to lose any substantial group.

If you are a Bush Backer you commend Zell for a job "well-done".

Doug Giles wrote about Zell Miller:

You know Senator Zell Miller must have made the Democrats long for a carload of Miller Lite with his speech. To have a Democrat systematically pull their wet noodle candidate apart like an eagle on a rabbit carcass, probably leaves a stubborn Democrat no other recourse or relief than sucking on a brew or ten. Of course, they could castigate Zell and for diversion’s sake state that his speech is unimportant because -- horror of horrors! -- he was angry. And being angry towards the ludicrous left is a No-No, no? The argument runs that because Zell was angry we should not listen to him, but instead disbelieve his accurate rehearsal of Senator Kerry’s Senate voting record

Kathleen Parker wrote about Zell Miller:

As Chris Matthews of "Hardball" challenged Miller about some of his claims, provoking Miller to say he wished men could still challenge each other to duel, pollster Frank Luntz was interviewing a group of Ohio swing voters, who described Miller's speech as: fantastic, very upbeat, energetic, surprising, focused on the family, powerful but one-sided, intellectual, dynamic and on-target...

In other words, Miller played well in places where spin is a cycle on the washer. If there were any Bubbas undecided before Miller, there aren't anymore. You can bet your duck blind on that.

and Jonah Goldberg wrote about Zell Miller:

However, in part because Kerry's left his record undefended, Miller's speech was effective (and not that much more negative than, say, Al Sharpton's in Boston). The focus group "real Americans" I saw on TV were impressed, and I bet lots of other Americans were too.

Yep, these are all conservative commentators. I still think this whole concept of having Zell Miller (a conservative southern Democrat) deliver the most scathing political attacks of the convention against John Kerry to be brilliant political strategy.

[Xzion]

I have no facts to back this up but I suspect Zell Miller just delivered a fair amount of the conservative southern Democratic vote. The anger and the dueling comment won't hurt and may even help that demographic.

Even if these people can't be enticed to vote for Bush perhaps Zell has convinced them to NOT vote for Kerry?

Either way it tends to fracture Democratic unity at a time when Kerry can't afford to lose any substantial group.

If you are a Bush Backer you commend Zell for a job "well-done".

Doug Giles wrote about Zell Miller:

You know Senator Zell Miller must have made the Democrats long for a carload of Miller Lite with his speech. To have a Democrat systematically pull their wet noodle candidate apart like an eagle on a rabbit carcass, probably leaves a stubborn Democrat no other recourse or relief than sucking on a brew or ten. Of course, they could castigate Zell and for diversion’s sake state that his speech is unimportant because -- horror of horrors! -- he was angry. And being angry towards the ludicrous left is a No-No, no? The argument runs that because Zell was angry we should not listen to him, but instead disbelieve his accurate rehearsal of Senator Kerry’s Senate voting record

Kathleen Parker wrote about Zell Miller:

As Chris Matthews of "Hardball" challenged Miller about some of his claims, provoking Miller to say he wished men could still challenge each other to duel, pollster Frank Luntz was interviewing a group of Ohio swing voters, who described Miller's speech as: fantastic, very upbeat, energetic, surprising, focused on the family, powerful but one-sided, intellectual, dynamic and on-target...

In other words, Miller played well in places where spin is a cycle on the washer. If there were any Bubbas undecided before Miller, there aren't anymore. You can bet your duck blind on that.

and Jonah Goldberg wrote about Zell Miller:

However, in part because Kerry's left his record undefended, Miller's speech was effective (and not that much more negative than, say, Al Sharpton's in Boston). The focus group "real Americans" I saw on TV were impressed, and I bet lots of other Americans were too.

Yep, these are all conservative commentators. I still think this whole concept of having Zell Miller (a conservative southern Democrat) deliver the most scathing political attacks of the convention against John Kerry to be brilliant political strategy.

heh, Zell is one of the most (modern day at least) republican politicians around to this day. Calling Zell Miller angry at "fanatics" would be like hitler being angry and people who murder jews
He may have rounded up the blatantly racist white-trash wing of the neocon republican party (because that is exactly what he is) but im sure republicans have second thoughts about letting him speak.

Keep in mind Zell Millers "keynote" was supposed to be compared to Barak Obamas "keynote"....hmmm who do you think is the better man out of those two?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Zell.

[Markulas]

I prefer angry white fascists too.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I prefer angry white fascists too.

Yes quoting Kerry's record makes him a terrible person.

[Xzion]

I prefer angry white fascists too.

Yes quoting Kerry's record makes him a terrible person.

I know you attempted to turn that around to try to make that an insult towards Kerry, yet he comes of as anything but angry, and calling a "liberal" a fascist is like calling MLK racist

Saying you find Zell to be better person/speaker over barak prooves you are an intolerant partisan

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I prefer angry white fascists too.

Yes quoting Kerry's record makes him a terrible person.

I know you attempted to turn that around to try to make that an insult towards Kerry, yet he comes of as anything but angry, and calling a "liberal" a fascist is like calling MLK racist

Saying you find Zell to be better person/speaker over barak prooves you are an intolerant partisan

Yes, I prefer genuine talk over very well produced political talk. Label me as you will.

[Markulas]

ugh, useless.