Orange Alert

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Voronwë
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Orange Alert

Post by Voronwë »

You guys know my political slant, but believe me, I really am not somebody who thought that the announcement over the weekend about raising the terror alert level to Orange had anything to do with the political campaign season.

The more I read about this, the more I actually believe the satirists who were joking about this from the beginning.

This reconnaissance is 3-4 years old that the alert was based upon.
The New York Times wrote:Reports That Led to Terror Alert Were Years Old, Officials Say
By DOUGLAS JEHL and DAVID JOHNSTON

Published: August 3, 2004


WASHINGTON, Aug. 2 -Much of the information that led the authorities to raise the terror alert at several large financial institutions in the New York City and Washington areas was three or four years old, intelligence and law enforcement officials said on Monday. They reported that they had not yet found concrete evidence that a terrorist plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under way.

But the officials continued to regard the information as significant and troubling because the reconnaissance already conducted has provided Al Qaeda with the knowledge necessary to carry out attacks against the sites in Manhattan, Washington and Newark. They said Al Qaeda had often struck years after its operatives began surveillance of an intended target.

Taken together with a separate, more general stream of intelligence, which indicates that Al Qaeda intends to strike in the United States this year, possibly in New York or Washington, the officials said even the dated but highly detailed evidence of surveillance was sufficient to prompt the authorities to undertake a global effort to track down the unidentified suspects involved in the surveillance operations.

I'm not trying to present this article as proof of , let's say, Howard Dean's remarks the other day (no i don't have a Dean sticker on my subaru wagon....or a subaru wagon for that matter!), I just think that this is an issue worth discussing.

What are the ramifications for our democracy if the Dept of Homeland Security is manipulated for political reasons?

Is it ludicrous to suggest that our government does not make the Alert Status decisions completely independently of political campaign information?

i don't know, i'm not trying to say I think one way or the other. I try to avoid the conspiracy theory mindset.
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Post by Voronwë »

a reply at the end of the article to my concerns
Senior counterterrorism and intelligence officials based in Europe said the information targeting the five buildings was developed by Qaeda operatives before Sept. 11, 2001. But a senior European counterterrorism official cautioned that "some recent information'' indicated that the buildings might remain on a list of Qaeda targets.

"Al Qaeda routinely comes up with ways to hit targets for years at a time, so it may not mean much that these buildings were first targeted more than three years ago,'' the official said.

in the middle of the article, it is noted that a lot of the surveillance on the security measures at these buildings pre-dates 9/11. so in other words it should be considered outdated if you are approaching it from an operational mindset.

bottom line, i think that some reaction was definitely warranted, but was this degree of reaction actually appropriate? who knows.
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Post by Lynks »

A vote for Bush is a vote against terrorism! I think its just a way to instill fear into people's hearts so that they will vote for Bush because he brought the country into war already.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Tight security is expensive to implement.

I doubt that it would be done just to tweak election politics.

I'm sure the people at those clamped-down institutions are glad that their safety is being considered from a cautious rather than reluctant perpective.
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Post by Siji »

A. The alert came right after the DMC. Coincidence? Methinks not.

B. When has the intel on the alerts EVER been accurate or not outdated?

The Homeland Security 'thing' is a joke for anyone with any intelligence at all. I'm sorry, but until I see foriegn fighter planes flying overhead or see video footage of a foreign army landing on our beaches I'm not going to worry any more than I'm worried about what Bush is going to do to the country if he manages to get reelected or how future presidents are going to fix everything he's fucked up.

Homeland Security.. the group that's cried wolf too many times.
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Post by Kelshara »

On one hand I do understand that beefing up old security at buildings listed is a good thing, especially when it is old and outdated. On the other hand I think it is ridiculous to raise the overall terror alert due to this old information. And yes I have NO doubt that the terror alert system is being used to "scare" people and to get attention when they deem it is needed for whatever reason.

Btw.. it could be dangerous to put too much into pre-9/11 information considering how everything has changed after that attack. I highly doubt they would use the same strategies as they planned back then due to new security measures etc.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Siji wrote:A. The alert came right after the DMC. Coincidence? Methinks not.

B. When has the intel on the alerts EVER been accurate or not outdated?

The Homeland Security 'thing' is a joke for anyone with any intelligence at all. I'm sorry, but until I see foriegn fighter planes flying overhead or see video footage of a foreign army landing on our beaches I'm not going to worry any more than I'm worried about what Bush is going to do to the country if he manages to get reelected or how future presidents are going to fix everything he's fucked up.

Homeland Security.. the group that's cried wolf too many times.
Dramatic and sweeping claims of wrongdoing are more credible when they are backed up with some evidence.
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Post by Metanis »

I'm always amazed at the conspiracy kooks. If this alert were politically motivated don't you think someone would find a way to leak that info? Sure, there is a chance this is cooked up, but it's a damn small chance.

I would say that this period of time leading up to the election should be the safest in our recenty memory. Any terrorist attack will probably cause voters to be more likely to vote for Bush. I think the terrorists suspect they can be more effective against a Kerry administration. Wouldn't they then abstain from attacks in the USA since it would be in their self-interest? I realize I'm implying that terrorists may have rational motivations.
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Post by Kelshara »

If this alert were politically motivated don't you think someone would find a way to leak that info? Sure, there is a chance this is cooked up, but it's a damn small chance.
Well sources have said "There are no concrete evidence of terror plans. Nothing of what we hear now is new. I don't know why they increased the alert level" (translated from the article I read earlier in Norwegian, supposedly it was from Washington Post and the source was from inside an intelligence agency).
I think the terrorists suspect they can be more effective against a Kerry administration.
This is where you are (imho) wrong. Al Qaeda have said they want Bush to win. Why? Because they don't need to necesarily have successful attacks to "win". By forcing Americans to give up freedoms and changing their lives they are winning without even having to attack.
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Post by miir »

This is nothing but fearmongering.
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Post by Winnow »

I agree that Bush needs to refine our homeland security alert system in the coming years.

I do however find no fault with this. The very first time something happens, the liberals will be screaming like banshees that nothing was done. So deal with the alerts as it's better than dealing with a raging liberal mob the minute something happens if an alert isn't issued.

Conpsiracy or not, I hope you fully anticipate alerts being a regular occurrence throughout the olympics and leading up to the elections.
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Post by Sylvos »

YES MORE CONSPIRACY THEORIES PLEASE! INCREDIBLE! I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THE REASON FOR THIS WAS TO STICK IT TO THE DEMOCRATS!
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Post by Kelshara »

Well the question is (and none of us can really answer it): Is anything and the right thing being done, or is the "alert baromether" used to scare and make people THINK something is being done?
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Post by Zaelath »

To say the terror alerts are definitely being used as a political tool just makes you look like a partisan fuckhead.

To say the terror alerts are definitely not being used as a political tool just makes you look like a partisan fuckhead.
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Post by Fairweather Pure »

We will never see the green or blue levels of the warning system. I have no idea why they were even included in the scale.
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Post by Chmee »

Fairweather Pure wrote:We will never see the green or blue levels of the warning system. I have no idea why they were even included in the scale.
The client site I have been at for the last year puts the threat level on their intranet home page. I have never seen it below yellow. Its been yellow probably 95 percent of the time, with a brief stint at orange.
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Post by Cartalas »

miir wrote:This is nothing but fearmongering.

Tell that to the famlies of the WTC victims.
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Post by Sylvos »

You guys need to relax, an increased security level is good.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Personally I'm surprised suicide bombings aren't a regular occurance in the states. No, I'm not trying to be inflamatory, I'm seriously surprised by the fact they don't happen at all.
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Post by Voronwë »

i am actually surprised that we haven't seen more of them either. they must be harder to find people to do than we might otherwise think.

it is shocking honestly, we have so many 'soft targets'. i am obviously very happy it hasn't happened, but yeah a bit surprised. hopefully, some of this is due to the increased dilligence of our various enforcement agencies.

edit : Ding 5000, 3rd biggest loser on this board :p
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Post by Xzion »

Sylvos wrote:You guys need to relax, an increased security level is good.
Actually its bad for the economy becouse fear driven dipshits dont want to fly or travel...

I dont think this is entirely cooked up, but i do think, due to the timeing that this administration has at least, or at most enhanced the threat and blew it up out of porportion a little bit, i would not have any conspiracy theorys if it wasnt for the perfict timing for the Bush admin, that and my general distrust for that admin
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Post by miir »

Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:This is nothing but fearmongering.
Tell that to the famlies of the WTC victims.
How exactly is that relevant?
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Post by Cartalas »

miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:This is nothing but fearmongering.
Tell that to the famlies of the WTC victims.
How exactly is that relevant?

I bet they wished there was some sort of alert system in place.
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Post by Sylvos »

They did, its called Radar.
It's just the issue of not having proper protocols and procedures set up to combat terrorist agendas that was the program.
Not to mention lax security.

So..you were saying?
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Post by Kelshara »

I bet they wished there was some sort of alert system in place.
Highly doubtful since the alert system does nothing. Most people don't give a shit wether it is at Yellow or Orange or Pink or whatever. It is a non-factor in fighting terrorism and is nothing but a distraction method.
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Post by Avestan »

Voronwë wrote:i am actually surprised that we haven't seen more of them either. they must be harder to find people to do than we might otherwise think.

it is shocking honestly, we have so many 'soft targets'. i am obviously very happy it hasn't happened, but yeah a bit surprised. hopefully, some of this is due to the increased dilligence of our various enforcement agencies.

edit : Ding 5000, 3rd biggest loser on this board :p
Should we not give some credit for nothing happening to Homeland Security? I think the biggest testament to them is exactly the fact that NOTHING has happened.

While we are at it, the Bush Administration should get some credit for this as well. (start flames now)
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Post by kyoukan »

yes once again the bush administration successfully defended america from another imaginary terrorist attack.
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Post by Kylere »

There is not a single person who can state factually that these alerts do not help, however no one can state factually that they do not.

Do I think it is a wag the dog thing? Nope, now in November I would regard it differently.
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Post by Zaelath »

Avestan wrote:
Voronwë wrote:i am actually surprised that we haven't seen more of them either. they must be harder to find people to do than we might otherwise think.

it is shocking honestly, we have so many 'soft targets'. i am obviously very happy it hasn't happened, but yeah a bit surprised. hopefully, some of this is due to the increased dilligence of our various enforcement agencies.

edit : Ding 5000, 3rd biggest loser on this board :p
Should we not give some credit for nothing happening to Homeland Security? I think the biggest testament to them is exactly the fact that NOTHING has happened.

While we are at it, the Bush Administration should get some credit for this as well. (start flames now)
Very hard to get people to suicide bomb once they're in the states and out of the crushing poverty driving their depression/insanity I would think.

Not much happened before 9/11 either, certainly not with any frequency that would indicate you're "overdue". Biggest thing I recall was Oklahoma, and that was domestic. Then there was the WTC carpark bombing, but that was in 1993..
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Post by Chidoro »

Metanis wrote: I think the terrorists suspect they can be more effective against a Kerry administration. Wouldn't they then abstain from attacks in the USA since it would be in their self-interest? I realize I'm implying that terrorists may have rational motivations.
Yes because recruitment doesn't get bolstered by unfounded attacks.

And as to this threat, when do people like you get it when others say, "just protect us if you have a fucking lead". You don't need to worry everyone, the worry is placed there for a reason.

But hey, Bush sure had my back today and yesterday. I only had to evacuate from one subway this morning. I'm sure it was credible. Poor police are so overworked with this shit already.
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Post by Ransure »

Zaelath wrote:
Avestan wrote:
Voronwë wrote:i am actually surprised that we haven't seen more of them either. they must be harder to find people to do than we might otherwise think.

it is shocking honestly, we have so many 'soft targets'. i am obviously very happy it hasn't happened, but yeah a bit surprised. hopefully, some of this is due to the increased dilligence of our various enforcement agencies.

edit : Ding 5000, 3rd biggest loser on this board :p
Should we not give some credit for nothing happening to Homeland Security? I think the biggest testament to them is exactly the fact that NOTHING has happened.

While we are at it, the Bush Administration should get some credit for this as well. (start flames now)
Very hard to get people to suicide bomb once they're in the states and out of the crushing poverty driving their depression/insanity I would think.

Not much happened before 9/11 either, certainly not with any frequency that would indicate you're "overdue". Biggest thing I recall was Oklahoma, and that was domestic. Then there was the WTC carpark bombing, but that was in 1993..
I didnt think thier poverty was the reason they were bombing people anyway?... If your going to be a religious fanatic... you should be one wherever you go.... I think the biggest problem they are having is getting the people with the know how to make the bombs and that are willing to blow themselves up into the US.
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Post by Ceredwin »

The data on security at the targets was compiled several years ago, but the point is that the terrorist they captured last week had it on his computer. This is the guy behind the African embassy bombings in 98. And then British intelligence got a tip from an Al Queda operative that an attack is planned for 60 days before the election. Would you prefer this be ignored or that those of us in NYC and Washington are on heightened alert?

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld ... ge-big-pix

My only beef is that the federal government is not picking up the tab and have never made up for the tremendous loss NYC took. Considering our bloated spending on utter bullshit (Republicans as bad as Democrats lately), while the main Constitutional function of the federal government is supposed to be protecting us from foreign attack, be nice if the country shared the burden.
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Post by Thess »

NY hasn't left Orange terror status since 9/11 - it's Orange + atm
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Post by Zaelath »

Ransure wrote:I didnt think thier poverty was the reason they were bombing people anyway?... If your going to be a religious fanatic... you should be one wherever you go.... I think the biggest problem they are having is getting the people with the know how to make the bombs and that are willing to blow themselves up into the US.
The religious fanatics are Bin Laden et al that reward the suicide bombers families. It's much the same everywhere, the rich don't go to war, they fund them.
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Post by Winnow »

Fairweather Pure wrote:We will never see the green or blue levels of the warning system. I have no idea why they were even included in the scale.
The terror alert level would always be green if Kerry was elected! Ask Xzion!

I'm giving this conspiracy theory a liberal crackpot factor of 4 on a 5 point scale.

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Post by Forthe »

Winnow wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:We will never see the green or blue levels of the warning system. I have no idea why they were even included in the scale.
The terror alert level would always be green if Kerry was elected! Ask Xzion!

I'm giving this conspiracy theory a liberal crackpot factor of 4 on a 5 point scale.

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Its a reasonable suspicion IMO. Especially after Ashcroft's fear mongering a few months ago where the Department of Homeland security didn't even back him up.

And the people blaming terrorism solely on religious fanatism aren't much better than those that believe terrorists hate the US because "they hate freedom". It is the US foreign policy stupid. Religion helps as a rally call but the motivation is US foreign policy. I realize most americans aren't aware of some of the shit that goes on, the media certainly doesn't report it.

I'm sure some of you were aware of the recent embassy bombings in Uzbekistan. I'm sure you will have some that will believe the bombers "hate freedom", others will believe it is radical islam trying to destroy the infidels. Sure either of those are possible. But it is just as likely, if not more so, that the bombings were due to the US supporting a Saddam like dictator that, among other methods of torture and death, kills people by boiling them in water from the mid-section down.

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Removing a brutal dictor was worth invading a country and killing over 10,000 Iraqis to many of you that supported this war. Your government supports a brutal dictator for the small price of an air base.

If that seems fair to you then fine. But if next month some dude from Uzbekistan blows himself up somewhere in the US at least realize his motivations may be more than just "hating freedom" or hating non islamics.

Unfortunately this is only one of many motivations US foreign policy has created for terrorists.
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Post by Niffoni »

Ransure wrote:I didnt think thier poverty was the reason they were bombing people anyway?...
You'd be amazed at the human trait of fanatically believing whoever feeds you.
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Post by Voronwë »

i do think that poverty plays a pretty substantial roll in the roll of martyrdom in general. certainly some individuals who do have jobs/futures get caught up in the wave of it all as well, but that is because it is a Jihadist movement now, with a certain amount of cultural inertia.

but i think some of Zarqawi's suicide bombers have been chained into their trucks just in case they thought better of their actions, etc.


I cant believe the federal government is helping NYC pay the bill. that is ridiculous.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Grats passing 5k posts Voro! You win teh big star!
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Post by masteen »

Voronwë wrote:Ding 5000, 3rd biggest loser on this board :p
You'll always be #1 loser in my heart! :vv_bowdown:
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Post by Aslanna »

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay. ... ID=3582210

How politics of terror pushed a nation to the edge

04.08.2004
5.00pm - By RUPERT CORNWELL

To describe America's latest terror alert as a silly season folly, filling the airwaves and newspaper pages in the usual high summer absence of real news, would be uncharitable.

But, in the space of 48 hours, what sounded on Sunday like an imminent threat to financial targets in New York, New Jersey and Washington has metamorphosed into an imbroglio of disarray and confusion, with a dash of farce thrown in.

On Sunday afternoon, when the government announced it had gained remarkably specific intelligence from captured al Qaeda operatives, breathless news media accounts indicated the worst might be at hand. The next day, the evidence discovered on captured al Qaeda computer disks in Pakistan was revealed to be three or four years old, pre-dating the 11 September attacks themselves.

By yesterday, the controversy was starting to provoke questions that recalled the great Iraqi WMD debacle. Had the intelligence analysts got it wrong, was the Bush administration again over-reacting, and was the White House using a national security scare to further its election year political goals?

At least the origins of this summer drama are reasonably clear. They may be traced to 13 June, and the arrest in Karachi of an al Qaeda member named Musaad Aruchi. That led to the capture exactly a month later of Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan, a Pakistani national and relatively low-level al Qaeda operative, a computer expert specialising in communications.

Finally, on 25 July, came the arrest in the Pakistani city of Gujrat of Ahmad Khalfan Ghailani, a Tanzanian and a top member of Osama bin Laden's organisation, who is believed to have had helped the 1998 bombings of US embassies in east Africa. The new material seized with him was passed to US intelligence.

On 29 July - hours before John Kerry was to speak at the Democratic convention in Boston - the CIA discussed the find at a meeting with FBI and military officials. The indications were that al Qaeda was targeting the New York Stock Exchange in Manhattan, the Prudential financial group headquarters in Newark, New Jersey, and the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund buildings in central Washington.

Tom Ridge, the head of Homeland Security, decided on Saturday to raise the colour coded terror alert for the three districts from yellow, or "elevated", to orange or "high", and go public with the news. On Sunday morning, President George Bush gave his assent.

The news dropped like a bombshell into the torpor of an early-August weekend. The attack was likely to be "in the near term", and there was evidence that terrorists had recently conducted a dry run for the attack on the Prudential.

The information was "alarming in both its amount and its specificity", Mr Ridge declared; an unnamed "senior intelligence official" told The New York Times that it was "chilling in its scope, detail and breadth".

For President Bush, it was further proof that: "We are a nation in danger."

Within a day, the backpedalling had begun. The material was old, some of it culled long ago from the internet. Nor was there evidence that al Qaeda had checked the Prudential building in recent weeks.

Instead, other targets - including the BankAmerica building in San Francisco - had also been under consideration by the terrorists, although they did not feature in the announcement.

However, the discoveries in Pakistan dovetailed with warnings that the terrorist group was planning to strike this autumn. In short, all is confusion. But the confusion offers an insight into the politics of terror in the US, and public attitudes to the terrorist threat.

Three factors are at play. One is purely political, the second has to do with the natures of bureaucracies everywhere, and the third reflects what may be described as the American national character.

In political terms, terrorism ranks only third among the issues on voters' minds, behind Iraq and the economy. Far more importantly, however, is that terrorism was and is likely to remain Mr Bush's best issue. Polls put him 10 points or more ahead of Mr Kerry on the issue.

The Massachusetts Senator avoids any suggestion that Mr Bush may be playing politics with the issue, even though the terrorist threat seems to acquire a new urgency whenever the Democrats are in the limelight.

Indeed, Mr Kerry's criticism of the President is the opposite: that the White House is not reacting strongly enough. The second contributor for the drama is the age-old instinct of those in authority to protect their rear ends.

Constant unfounded warnings run the risk of crying wolf, so that the accurate warning, if it comes, will be greeted by public indifference. On the other hand, imagine the consequences if officials ignored indications of a terrorist strike only for it to take place.

No, there was "no evidence of recent surveillance", of the target sites, Mr Ridge said yesterday.

"But this [al Qaeda] is an organisation that plans in advance. We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security."

In fact, even homeland security is politics too. The assumption is that, in the immediate aftermath of an attack, Americans would rally around Mr Bush. But soon afterwards the awkward questions would start: How had the terrorists again slipped through the country's supposedly reinforced defences and was the Iraq war a mistake, at best a distraction from, at worst a stimulus to, the "war on terror?"

The post-attack "bounce" for the President might be shortlived. All these assumptions depend on the third factor in the equation - the US public and its feelings about the terrorist menace.

The 11 September attacks were a shattering, attitude-transforming event. Europeans have learnt to live with terror. Americans have not.

It is hard to believe that had a British government issued a similar warning and then admitted the information on which it was based was three or four years old, it would not have been pilloried for scaremongering.

Not so here. This is a country that yearns for certainty and predictability. Americans like to rank and categorise everything. Hence the mania for lists, and hence the habit of weather forecasts of talking not of the mere likelihood of rain, but of measuring that likelihood in percentage terms.

The fact is that post-11 September protection of the homeland has been effective. The installation of new barricades, street closures and security checkpoints in New York, Newark and Washington, and sundry other disruptions has been accepted with little complaint.

"Better safe than sorry" is the Bush administration's watchword, and most Americans seem to agree. The threat alert, for mysterious reasons, may soon be moved down to yellow. But the barricades and the rest will stay in place.

As Mr Bush knows full well, if the public thinks he is lowering the guard on terror, he could find himself out of a job come 3 November.
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Post by Avestan »

Zaelath wrote:
Avestan wrote:
Voronwë wrote:i am actually surprised that we haven't seen more of them either. they must be harder to find people to do than we might otherwise think.

it is shocking honestly, we have so many 'soft targets'. i am obviously very happy it hasn't happened, but yeah a bit surprised. hopefully, some of this is due to the increased dilligence of our various enforcement agencies.

edit : Ding 5000, 3rd biggest loser on this board :p
Should we not give some credit for nothing happening to Homeland Security? I think the biggest testament to them is exactly the fact that NOTHING has happened.

While we are at it, the Bush Administration should get some credit for this as well. (start flames now)
Very hard to get people to suicide bomb once they're in the states and out of the crushing poverty driving their depression/insanity I would think.

Not much happened before 9/11 either, certainly not with any frequency that would indicate you're "overdue". Biggest thing I recall was Oklahoma, and that was domestic. Then there was the WTC carpark bombing, but that was in 1993..
You also had Bin Laden promise a Christmas attack and again promise an attack by February (both on US soil). Neither happened. Also, you can hardly compare the early nineties with now when it comes to terrorist desire to strike the US. I think they have been very successful.
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Post by Lynks »

I read something today that said the US should talk to a certain amount of people in charge of the "targets" and help them secure parts of it instead of holding nationwide press conferences. This would reduce the amount of hysteria across the country.
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Post by Aaeamdar »

As someone who worked in the WTC (though I was merely on my way to work, not actually in the building) on the day of the attacks, I can say with 100% confidence that knowing that some government agency thought the color of the alert on that day was Orange or Red or Fuscia or any other color would have had no effect on me at all.

I can't even believe any reasonable person can look at a terrorist alert system that stays on alert at all times is doing anything other than making sure Americans are afraid.

The entire thing is a stupid waste of money whose sole purpose was to make it appear like the politicians (from both parties) were doing something after the attacks. As much as I hate Bush, Democrats deserve any political misuse the Replubicans get out of this. If they really cared about the personal freedoms they aspouse, they would have at a minimum done everything they could to obstruct the creation of HLS (and have voted against PA and PA II). They didn't. They jumped on the bandwagon. I have no sympathy for them now.
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Post by Niffoni »

Avestan wrote:You also had Bin Laden promise a Christmas attack and again promise an attack by February (both on US soil). Neither happened.
I think he also promised that Allah would rain his fiery vengence upon America, causing all babies to be born with hooves, and all men to be buried under piles of goat excrement.

Nice guy, Osama, but not too consistant.
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Post by Avestan »

Realistically, it is impossible to judge the job Homeland Security has done, but their mission is to stop attacks against the homeland. They have succeeded in that. I cannot speak to how good a job they have done. . .maybe nothing would have happened without them doing what they are doing, but maybe not.

The only thing that is certain is that when something does happen(and it will), people will be on them like flies on shit. I think it is only fair to give them credit for when they are successful with their job.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

That can be argued. On a global scale, the DHS has incited numerous verbal attacks on your country.
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Post by Avestan »

if you are willing to spin something far enough, anything can be argued. Thus was born the democratic party platform.
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Post by Zaelath »

If you enjoy the feeling of security gained by your multi-billion dollar elephant repellant, more power to you.

Osama may well have promised attacks on America that didn't appear, but his secondary aim is to keep you nervous, which is much much easier to do with a video camera than a low yield nuclear device.

I really do hope the various security agencies in the US have got their thumb out of their ass and will stop more attempts now than in the past. I want nothing more than to be wrong about the effectiveness of the current US efforts at combatting terrorism :)
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