The Passion

[Chidoro]

Let's not judge one set of writings as complete bunk, especially when there's 4 written accounts of practically the same event, which leads me to believe that there is some factual basis in what is written there. Instead, try to see what could be factual, and what is farse. Take responsibility for helping to better our understanding of the past instead of throwing out the only records we have of anything prior to photographs and television.

Look, I just take offence to the assumption that something factual like the Holocaust could be equated to stories that have been filtered through time to serve whomever's opinion was "right" at the time.

Make no mistake, I don't, nor will ever feel guilty of my forefathers, regardless of what they are/aren't guilty of. Couldn't give a shit really. The only time I have a problem w/ someone is if my beliefs or even my person is considered guilty of something when all I basically did was go to school, graduated college, go back to school to get an MBA because I didn't care for the Actuarial field, and become successful, marry someone I love and begin to raise a family. But these are things I know, just like I KNOW what happened during the holocaust. But it's already understood where I was coming from, so I'll leave it at that.

[Pahreyia]

Let's not judge one set of writings as complete bunk, especially when there's 4 written accounts of practically the same event, which leads me to believe that there is some factual basis in what is written there. Instead, try to see what could be factual, and what is farse. Take responsibility for helping to better our understanding of the past instead of throwing out the only records we have of anything prior to photographs and television.

Look, I just take offence to the assumption that something factual like the Holocaust could be equated to stories that have been filtered through time to serve whomever's opinion was "right" at the time.

I understand your point and you are correct, again, to a point. What I was saying was that while the meanings and interpretations have been altered to serve the will of the leadership, especially the catholic leadership of the time (i.e. the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Protestant Movement, the Church of England, the Salem Witch Trials).

As of this moment, we have archieological proof of the translations being accurate to within a very small, perhaps even fraction of a percentage to the original. To discredit the translation of the bible in it's modern incarnation would be naive and illogical. It's difficult to be certain of any true facts based on accounts prior to ~1300 AD/CE, but from what accounts we do have, and archieological evidence allows us to get a pretty good idea of what did and did not happen.

The account may be skewed to the favor of the person who wrote it, as I believe the new testament is, many of the factual references to events of the time can be accepted as reasonably within the bounds of truth.

The "knowing" of the events in the bible is not in question, it's the "faith" that they happened like the people who wrote it said they did, through the hand and will of "God."

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

This was easily the most brutal and violently disturbing movie I have ever witnessed. I honestly wanted to get up and leave the theater rather than watch it.

It was like watching the curbing scene in American History X for 2 hours. Unless you are really into that, or are ultra religious, I would avoid this movie. I would never, ever again watch this movie.

[Coatlicue [KoE]]

all I can say, really, is wow.

One of the most powerful movies I have ever seen. I literally had tears rolling down my face almost the entire movie.

I'd have to agree with Adelrune's post too. Never have I seen a theatre so quite and so somber afterwards. Also, there's a scene at the end where it cuts to the opening of the tomb, and there's a pretty long and dramatic pause, where the screen is blank for a few seconds... No one said a word, you could hear a pin drop. People were just stunned.

Very graphic, very violent. Normally, I would be one to kinda chuckle at such things, (I started cracking up at the theatre when I saw Gladiator and saw heads being chopped off and stuff)... but I can't even tell you how much seeing this film moved me and made me hurt inside. I was brought up in a pretty strict baptist household, and one would think that with my being so involved in youth activities and the church, I would feel passion like this before... I haven't until I saw this movie. I literally felt torn inside, like I was there and felt what Jesus felt. My former Youth Pastor said that the walk to calvary scenes could have been shorter, but I felt it was perfect, it showed the burden Jesus bore, and the heartbreak that he suffered. It showed the sins of man, and the compassion of others, the pain, all rolled into one. It was beautiful, compelling, and very very disturbing. Genius.

Gosh, I know this is just a movie, but it really really makes you think.

I guess that was more than just wow.

but still...

wow

[Animalor]

Sounds like a very volient, great interpretation of what's written in the book.

As to what really happened though is anyone's guess. Historians are having a field day pointing out stuff that's wrong about this movie and the way things are portrayed here.

Regardless, my wife and I are both raised Catholic, both non-practicing. She's decided that she didn't want to see this movie. I'm probably going to rent it when it goes to video.

[Colal]

I saw the movie and I thought it sucked.

2 hours of watching someone getting the shit beat out of them is not enlightening, inspiringing, entertaining, or informative.

I grew up a christian, and i've read most of the bible several times over. As someone who is educated about my faith it does not show me anything new, and it doesn't give me a perspective into Jesus's life that I hadn't seen before.

If i were someone who was not informed about Jesus, I wouldn't be inspired to learn more or even care that this guy got beat up and executed. Its very difficult to care about someone who you don't know anything about, and this movie made no effort to explain who he was or why he was important.

They slowed the camera down way to much. Once in a while its nice for the added dramatic effect, but every 15 seconds is overdoing it.

The subtitleing was poorly done. The simple fact that the movie had subtitles doesnt bother me in the slightest. I learned to read in the first grade, and it just becomes a natural part of the movie after about 5 mins. The problem is they didn't bother to translate half the dialogue. Consider that the movie had no debth and no character development, skiping the translation of the few things that might actually make some of the characters interesting is a bad idea.

[Kilrain]

I totally agree Coatlicue. It was easily the most powerful film I have ever seen.

It was violent, but the violence emphasizes the physical and emotional degree of the sacrifice - which would pale in comparison to the spiritual sacrifice; taking on the sins of the world.

I don't know how anyone can see that movie and not be completely moved by it. It will undoubtedly give many people, many things to think about for a very, long time... and that to me is the highest accolade that any movie could ever possibly reach.

[Mort]

Cant wait to see it, fucking sold out every time I can get a couple free hours.


And in other developments.....


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/03/01/ ... index.html

[Kriista]

i didnt particularly like the movie

mind you, im not religious, was brought up christian but strayed away early on
even if i was religious i dont htink id like it, of all the shit to focus on about christ, his ass kicking wouldnt be what id make a movie 2+ hours long

now, i understand from a directoral perspective, his ass kicking is something youd want to bring to light, and as gorey as he did it is fine, the fact that that was the whole movie is what i didnt like

for gods sake(har har), put some of the good shit he said in there(other than tiny flashbacks, wtf was that table scene about?!), when it ended where it did i felt ripped off, it couldve been 3+ hours np given the topic

the emotional contect was good, up to a point, if id see it again im sure i could pinpoint it, but after the first nail goes in, but before hes up in crucified position there was a steep downhill in the drama for me, it mightve been the music, or editing, or something being drawn on too long, i just know i 'awoke' from the movie and looked around a bit wondering what people were crying about

and the whole tear from heaven/church splitting thing was a bit over the top imo too, i was expecting spaceships to come flying in next as far as context went

in conclusion, its no braveheart

[Sartori]

I just saw this last night. I thought it was very well done. I've seen plenty of gore and violence in movies before so I didn't think it would bother me at all. It did bother me, but not necessarily in a bad way. Mind numbing, maybe excessive, but realistic. Almost too realistic.

I'm not a religious person, but I do think there are some great stories in the book. I guess there are so many facets of Jesus' story that you could make a movie about so I see no problem with Mel going with this subject matter. Also, what is the problem with having flashbacks to the Last Supper?

This one falls into the Schindler's List category for me: I thought it was good/great, but I don't think I will watch it again.

[Stalker Vacio]

Don't care, won't see in movie theater, won't rent, won't watch on cable.

Will watch the edited version on NBC,Fox,ABC ect... in 3 years maybe...

Religion in general makes me inconfrontable.

How about that Starsky & Hutch? Snoop Dogg anyone? Snoop-a-loop...?

[Kriista]

Also, what is the problem with having flashbacks to the Last Supper?

if this was directed at me, i was talking about the table he was building, with the whole light comedic moment where his moms says "itll never catch on",

[Sartori]

Ok, I think it was such a small part I glossed over it

[Moonwynd]

The movie is called The Passion of The Christ. The Passion is the story of the last 12 hours of the life of Jesus. Mr. Gibson did not put extensive scenes in the movie depicting the life of Jesus because the movie was about the passion.

I for one thought the movie was fairly well done. It did move me emotionally and I thought Caviezel's portrayal was very well done. The figure of satan was very well done too. I think it portrayed satan as the Judeo-Christian view of satan was meant to be...deceptively attractive...but inherently pure evil.

Although Mary (the mother of Jesus...not Magdalene) did not have much to say, her eyes and facial expressions said what words did not.

I thought Pontius Pilate was not well done. History has shown Pilate to be a very cruel person. He was recalled to Rome twice by the Emperor for his cruelty. As a matter of fact, although he was the prefect for Jerusalem, he lived 60 miles away..which was a journey of 2.5 days. He lived as far as away as reasonably possible because of his disdain for the jewish people. In the movie he was portrayed as conflicted in the private moments with his wife. That does not sync with the historical Pilate.

As a Jew that believes in Christ, I was wondering if the rumors of anti semitism were going to be true. I did not see any reason for this movie to fuel anti semitic feelings. Joseph Caiphas was the High Priest and leader of the Sanhedrin. His authority and power, and the power of the corrupt Sanhedrin was in jeopardy because of Jesus. When powerful people are in danger of losing that power...it's the same today as it was 2000 years ago. Just look at how men of power routinely have their would be opposition killed off in places all over the world today. No anti semitic feelings should be roused by The Passion....Anti Roman perhaps...but not Anti Semitic.

A brutal movie...yes. I think Mr. Gibson wanted to demonstrate his beliefs and show how much Christ suffered...thus the brutality depicted was needed.

A moving movie if you are a person of faith...which I am.

Respectfully,

Moonwynd

[Moonwynd]

As for the table scene.

In those days, people ate supper reclined and on their sides near a very low table. The famous painting depticting the Last Supper was a modern rendering as they did not sit at a table with chairs in the time of Christ. That is why Mary said she didn't think it would catch on.

I saw an interview with Mel Gibson where he stated that because the movie was so full of brutality, he wanted to use small flashback scenes to give the moviegoer "escape hatches" so they could have a short respite from the brutality.

The flashback was also used to show that Jesus was a carpenter...and a physically strong man...so you could see how He could take so much abuse without dying before the crucifixion....and to show that he had a loving relationship with his mother.


Regards,

Moonwynd

[Mawafu]

In the movie he was portrayed as conflicted in the private moments with his wife. That does not sync with the historical Pilate.

Matthew 27:19 While Pilate was sitting on the judge's seat, his wife sent him this message: "Don't have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him."

I would assume the above scripture is why Gibson decided to portray Pilate as conflicted.

Overall I thought it was a good movie. I particularly liked the way Satan was portrayed and the ways he questioned and taunted Jesus (ie. cradling the ugly man-baby which took me a bit to figure out what I think he was trying to say). I'll probably watch it again when it comes out on DVD just to see if I missed anything.

[noel]

Moonwynd is dead on about Pilate's character and his disdain for the Jews. I mentioned it in a prior post. He was a sadist, and an asshole, who was unusually cruel even for a Roman.

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

Romans with their TurtleFormation!

[Fairweather Pure]

The sequel is going to fucking rock!

[Aaeamdar]

However, I feel that the major reason that this film might inspire anti-semetic feelings is because of the lengths the Jewish community went to trying to edit, ban, suppress the telling of a story important to Christians the whole world over.

and

As a Jew that believes in Christ, I was wondering if the rumors of anti semitism were going to be true. I did not see any reason for this movie to fuel anti semitic feelings.

The anti-semetism has nothing to do with whether or not "Jews killed Christ." You need to understand the history of Passion plays. Historically, the message of the passion play is that Jews killed Christ and that ALL JEWS GOING FORWARD BEAR THAT SIN. It was historically used to stir violent antisemetism. You would all be served well by doing a modicum of research before posting about things you do not understand. Gibson's movie very well may not carry that message. Pleanty of stories of Christ do not, even ones that have the Pharasees playing a prominant role in the death of Christ.

Given that in historical contexts passion plays have directly resulted in violence, including fatalities, against Jews, I think Jewish leaders are understandably concerned that a movie called The Passion of Chirst (especially one funded by someone of Mel Gibson's beliefs) might very well carry that same message and might, therefor, very well result in loving Christians going out and beating the shit out of some Jews.

P.S. - why does an atheist consistantly know more about the Bible and history of your religion than all you "devout" Christians? Knowledge will set you free, brother.

[Vailex Darkfury]

But I thought Kwon was Jesus. wtf is going on here??!?

[emmer]

it's an instant cult classic

[Siji]

I saw the movie and I thought it sucked.

2 hours of watching someone getting the shit beat out of them is not enlightening, inspiringing, entertaining, or informative.

My thoughts exactly.

It's like having a movie about Titanic start when they hit the ice and then just spend the next 2 hours showing people running around screaming. It's boring. It gets old. And you get the point in the first 5 minutes.

I'm sure it's a powerful visualization to really religious people, but it didn't make for a good movie, good entertainment or a good way to spend 2 hours. I could have popped in faces of death and had more entertainment than seeing the same person beaten on for a whole movie.

[Atokal]

However, I feel that the major reason that this film might inspire anti-semetic feelings is because of the lengths the Jewish community went to trying to edit, ban, suppress the telling of a story important to Christians the whole world over.

and

As a Jew that believes in Christ, I was wondering if the rumors of anti semitism were going to be true. I did not see any reason for this movie to fuel anti semitic feelings.

The anti-semetism has nothing to do with whether or not "Jews killed Christ." You need to understand the history of Passion plays. Historically, the message of the passion play is that Jews killed Christ and that ALL JEWS GOING FORWARD BEAR THAT SIN. It was historically used to stir violent antisemetism. You would all be served well by doing a modicum of research before posting about things you do not understand. Gibson's movie very well may not carry that message. Pleanty of stories of Christ do not, even ones that have the Pharasees playing a prominant role in the death of Christ.

Given that in historical contexts passion plays have directly resulted in violence, including fatalities, against Jews, I think Jewish leaders are understandably concerned that a movie called The Passion of Chirst (especially one funded by someone of Mel Gibson's beliefs) might very well carry that same message and might, therefor, very well result in loving Christians going out and beating the shit out of some Jews.

P.S. - why does an atheist consistantly know more about the Bible and history of your religion than all you "devout" Christians? Knowledge will set you free, brother.

You have book knowledge of Christianity, but no understanding. There is a big difference. Also if you are putting this in a historical context perhaps you should mention the era or timeframe when these passion plays were used to inspire hatred of the jews.

Further IIRC Christ asks God his father to forgive those that are crucifying him. So the message is not of hatred for the jews but of love for mankind, the ultimate sacrifice of Christ giving his life for all of humanity and finally about forgiveness.

Perhaps you should leave the debates about Christianity and the bible to those with knowledge and understanding. Your hatred (kinda laughable since you seem to decry the same behaviour when directed at gay folks) has blinded you to the TRUTH that will set you free.

Cheers

[Keverian FireCry]

shut the fuck up

[noel]

[Pahreyia]

Keverian is obviously a jew.

[Keverian FireCry]

obliviously