What happens when OK plays a team with Winning Record?

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » December 7, 2003, 12:42 am

THEY LOSE!

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » December 7, 2003, 1:02 am

Better Yet LSU is winning.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 7, 2003, 1:06 am

Looks like I was wrong on this one.

So what does everyone think now?

Personally, I think that Oklahoma should not go to the Sugar Bowl. I know that they've been dominant all season except for this game, but LSU and USC have also been dominant all season except for one game, and both of those teams are playing better ball now.

Additionally, USC's one loss was a triple-overtime thriller. OU's one loss is them getting fucked hard. LSU also got nailed pretty bad against Florida, but they've played a tougher schedule, and are, again, playing better right now.

Lots of analysts have been saying that OU will make the Sugar Bowl win or lose, and that they should. I agree that they will, but I don't think they deserve it.

My best prediction is that OU will drop to number 2 in the polls, behind USC and ahead of LSU, because the pollsters will feel that they need to penalize OU somehow, but not too much. This will just fuck LSU, because it'll hand the Sugar Bowl slots to USC and OU. We'll have to see how it all plays out, though.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » December 7, 2003, 1:13 am

I think they are ranked ~4/5ish~ in any rankings.

I would rather see LSU Vs MSU in the National Champ game.

How can you top the 2 best confrence's in the country in the national championship title game?

IMO if you cant be your confrence's champ, how can you have any claim to National Champ?

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » December 7, 2003, 1:15 am

LSU is probably gonna jump UGA in most if not all the Computers. So that makes it tough considering OU will probably still be higher than both.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » December 7, 2003, 1:20 am

UGA will drop back at least 4 spots if not more.
OK 2/3 spots back.

#LSU
#2 UCS
#3 OK/ MSU
#4 OK/MSU

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 7, 2003, 2:47 am

One time.. ONE time I wanted Oklahoma to win.. and they didn't do it.

Now Texas is fucked out of a BCS bowl, since Kasas State will get the automatic bid and Oklahoma will likely get the at-large one. ><

Damn it.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » December 7, 2003, 2:54 am

a team that cannot win it's own conference does not deserve to go to the national championship game. That being said, the Pac10 and Big10 gain advantages because they do not have to play a conference title game. I think that OU will get the sugar bowl bid to the dismay of many in the southeast. The good that came from that loss is that more light will be shone on the fact that the entire bowl system is a crock of shit. A playoff system would eliminate any doubt of who the real champion is.

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 7, 2003, 3:02 am

/agree about playoff system

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » December 7, 2003, 3:08 am

a team that cannot win it's own conference does not deserve to go to the national championship game. That being said, the Pac10 and Big10 gain advantages because they do not have to play a conference title game

True about the Big 10. But they also play 8 teams out of the 11 in the confrence. So a Championship game is not needed. So they dont play every single team. Neither does Big 12, Big East and such.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 7, 2003, 8:31 am

I don't think I could be more happy about this. The BCS says they like the discussions generated by the polls. Discussion is great, but the topic is not how great college football is, the topic is how screwed up the BCS bowl system is. How sad will it be if a team losses its last game by 28, finishes second in its own division and gets to play for a National title (A very possible scenario). If Oklahoma lost by 7 in a tight game then fine, but they got their ass kicked. We should be seeing a LSU/USC Championship, but the East Coast Biased media will probably give us LSU/OK.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » December 7, 2003, 11:49 am

at least the Rose Bowl won't get fucked up this year

it should have always been Big Ten Champ vs Pac 10 Champ

Michigan vs. USC will be the biggest and best bowl game this year.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 7, 2003, 1:07 pm

Xouqoa wrote:One time.. ONE time I wanted Oklahoma to win.. and they didn't do it.

Now Texas is fucked out of a BCS bowl, since Kasas State will get the automatic bid and Oklahoma will likely get the at-large one. ><

Damn it.

yeah, I hate K-State yet I hate Oklahoma more. I was just waiting for them to lose. Then I thought about the BCS and could just say "shit" and start on a twelve-pack. Let's see...I am guessing Cotton Bowl for Texas this year. We'll see this afternoon. 5 or 6cst on ESPN from what I remember

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 7, 2003, 3:01 pm

Texas is projected to go to the almighty Holiday Bowl. ><

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » December 7, 2003, 3:38 pm

At least they are close to home!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 7, 2003, 6:28 pm

screw the Holiday Bowl! hehe. Would be better to go to the Cotton Bowl just for nostalgia's sake.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 7, 2003, 7:39 pm

So this game simply proved the point I have made about OU all season.. HAH!

Jason White - Overrated.
OU - Overrated.

The Championship game will probably end up being LSU vs OU which is a fucking joke. Should be LSU vs USC. Now it might end up with USC on top of both polls yet not in the championship game which is a joke.

Oh and if White wins the Heisman it would be a sad day for former winners of that trophy as well because he does NOT deserve it. He isn't even the best player on his own team!

That said.. I agree with the ESPN people: Darren Sproles NEEDS to go to New York as one of the final 5. Look at his god damn numbers! Why haven't we heard more about him before now?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 7, 2003, 11:06 pm

Where are you at Kelshara? Just wondering because the Big12 has known about him all year. He just dropped out of the picture when Ell was injured and K-State didn't have the double threat behind the line for the running game.

As for Texas, I forgot about Oklahoma State's record...Damn hawgs sent Texas to San Diego again.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 7, 2003, 11:15 pm

Ohio. I haven't been able to see a single K-State game here so this was the first time I saw him. Not heard much talk about him on ESPN etc either.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » December 7, 2003, 11:17 pm

There is no way a team that didn't win its confrence should play for the national chapionship the way college football is set up. If they had some type of playoff setup then its fine if a non confrence champ wins the national championship due to everyone having a shot.

As for USC being number one I think you could put a case for either LSU or USC being number 1. USC started the season ranked higher than LSU. USC also lost earlier in the season than LSU. Thats more than likely the reason they are ranked ahead of LSU. If you noticed each week LSU gets closer and closer to edging USC out. Last week there was about 50 points between them the week before that around 70 this week 15. If LSU beats OU don't be suprised if LSU edges out USC in both polls seeing they are as close as they are and if the trend keeps up.

In the end USC should be playing LSU the way the NCAA has football setup. OU should be playing Mich.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » December 7, 2003, 11:19 pm

Sueven wrote:Looks like I was wrong on this one.

So what does everyone think now?

I think the bowl system, in any incarnation, is a crock of shit and desperately needs to be replaced with a playoff system. College football will continue to be a laughing stock until they do.

Crav · Post by **Crav** » December 8, 2003, 12:15 am

Well it's gonna be LSU vs. OU in the Sugar Bowl and USC vs. Michigan in the Rose Bowl. It's gonna be interesting if USC wins the Rose Bowl since the AP doesn't have to go with the winner of the BCS championship game as the national champion. I've never really been a big fan of a playoff system, but if we get another split championship then it's probably for the best if college football goes to it.

Oh and fuck K-State and OU they can both burn in hell, stupid Holiday Bowl.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 8, 2003, 2:09 am

Ok I admit it, I am a Notre Dame fan first and a UCLA fan second so you can imagine how much defending USC pains me.I made my choices as a young child and I will stick with them even in the crappy seasons.

I am also a west coast person and I am tired of seeing teams ranked in the top 5 every year simply because they are from Florida. I should be happy with USC getting screwed, but I am not. I agree with everyone that a team should not play for a title if they cannot win their own conference and therefore Oklahoma should not be a champion win or lose in the "Title" game. USC and LSU earned their title shot, they won the game they had to win, OK did not.

Maybe this is the best though. I know we have a lot of Michigan fans on this board and they will be pulling for their team to win, but I am rooting for SC to blow them out. I am hoping to see a split National Championship and a greater public embarrassment for a very stupid system, run by very stupid people.

So /shudder......

GO TROJANS!!!! - ok that really hurt to type.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 8, 2003, 1:31 pm

All I want to know is how Ben Roethlisberger has absolutely no chance for the Heisman, even though he is quite possibly the best QB in the nation? And what the fuck is up with the NY Times computer that it can stick Miami down at number twenty fucking two with the year they have had?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 8, 2003, 6:42 pm

Good questions. MAC has some damn good QBs lead by Mr Roth, and he doesn't get the credit he deserves. A few other ones there as well, including one that has been mentioned as "one of the most exciting players in NCAA football".

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 8, 2003, 8:25 pm

Roethlisberger is a Junior, also. If he stays for his senior year I bet there will be more Heisman hype for him next season.

He sure is fun to watch, though. I was hoping Miami OH would come to the Citrus or Tangerine bowl.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 8, 2003, 8:38 pm

The whole Junior vs Senior crap is such bullshit. If a person is the best player he should win, wether he is a Freshman or a Senior!

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 8, 2003, 9:27 pm

"Oh and if White wins the Heisman it would be a sad day for former winners of that trophy as well because he does NOT deserve it. He isn't even the best player on his own team!"

PAST HEISMAN TROPHY WINNERS

2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan WR
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB
1989 Andre Ware Houston QB
1986 Vinny Testaverde Miami QB

I don't know, seems like Jason White's name fits perfectly with this group of winners

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 8, 2003, 9:41 pm

I wouldn't put Testaverde among those..

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 8, 2003, 9:51 pm

sorry your right, I was so stunned at seeing Gino Torretta's name as a winner again I accidently added Testaverde

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 8, 2003, 10:12 pm

White being a Sr is also a strange situation since he could legitimately get another year to play due to medical hardship.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 9, 2003, 12:54 pm

Tyek wrote:PAST HEISMAN TROPHY WINNERS

2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan WR
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB
1989 Andre Ware Houston QB
1986 Vinny Testaverde Miami QB

Desmond Howard shouldn't be there either, he played in the league for like 10+ years and was the Super Bowl XXXI MVP.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 9, 2003, 1:13 pm

The Heisman Trophy is not a trophy given to who is going to be the best NFL player in 5 years.

The trophy is for who is the best College Football Player *this* year.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 9, 2003, 7:07 pm

Voronwe just made a perfect argument for white White shouldn't win it

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 10, 2003, 2:28 am

bah, with my internet being fucked and me attending to family matters i didn't get to come here to say what i wanted to say.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah, i did fucking tell you so.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 11, 2003, 3:23 am

http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Alma ... 0_1999.htm

I stand by my previous statement, Jason White fits perfectly with most of those names. Can you really tell me Gino was better then Marshall Faulk? David Klingler and Eric Bieniemy had amazing seasons in 1990.

Jason White is a decent quarterback that got a lot of great field position touchdowns due to his defense. He looked overmatched in the last game when his defense did not bail him out.

I could care less about OU, I just think the media harps on one person and suddenly they are the ONE. I think Larry Fitzgerald and Mike Williams had better years and you could make a case for several other players.

As for the BCS, how happy is ABC? this year they get 2 potential National Championship games.
I also heard today they are thinking of adding a "Committee" like the NCAA tournament to add more weight to the Human equation of the BCS and water down the computers a little.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 11, 2003, 3:47 am

Just found this from BCS sucks.com

Monday, December 08, 2003
D'oh! Bob Stoops from a November 6th, 2002, ESPN.com article:

"Stoops said the teams that play for the national title should at least have won a conference championship."

DOH!!!

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » December 13, 2003, 3:21 pm

OK, I'm finally starting to come to terms with OU's loss to K-state. I do not think that we deserve to go to the sugarbowl, but I do think that we deserve a shot at the national championship, if that makes any sense. If USC should win their game, they should at least get a share of the national title.

An idea I had of how to incorporate a playoff system into the BCS is to create 3 more bowls or incorporate 3 existing ones, making 7 for the bcs. those 7 bowls then become the playoff games for the top 8 bcs teams, with the championship game rotating as it does now. The drawback to this would be that some teams would play in more than one bowl game and thus aquire more money for themselves and their conference, while a few other teams that would have otherwise played in bowl games, would not have those opportunities. This might make the system even more top-heavy than it already is, if that is possible.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 13, 2003, 4:02 pm

Someone (I think it was Tim Layden of SI) wrote recently that one of the big problems with using one of the bowl games is a championship a week after the others lies in the way the bowls make money. They're generally marketed as vacations, where people come a week or so early, spend money in the area, go to the parades and maybe the banquets and whatnot, and eventually go to the game, thus making them profitable.

If a team was playing in a game that gave them a shot at the national championship, it's likely that many fans would pass it up, prefering to take a shot at the championship game. This would decrease revenues for the early games, and the fact that the championship game participants would be determined only a week in advance would mean that planning for a vacation-style trip to it would be impossible, meaning that a bowl could not run it profitably.

His solution was to keep the bowl structure, but have an NCAA-sanctioned "championship game," not a bowl game, at the end. Tickets for this game could be sold a long time in advance, thus allowing the bowls to maintain their profitability. Since it would not involve all the extraneous bullshit that bowl games have, it would be much easier to run: just play a football game.

The only problem I have with this method is the fact that, if tickets are sold so far in advance, it'll probably end up being a relatively unemotional game. I'm sure some group of tickets could be reserved for the schools to distribute to schools or alumni or whatever, but the number would clearly be much smaller than what you get for a bowl game now.

It does, however, seem to be a better system than what we have in place now.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » December 13, 2003, 4:27 pm

not a bad idea, but I think it still will be prone to the possibility of 3 teams qualifying for the championship game.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 13, 2003, 6:33 pm

Well, I think you have a better chance of picking the correct teams after the bowl games have been played. The way I envision it, one bowl would be host to the BCS number 1 versus the BCS number 4, and another bowl would get 2v3, and these two bowls would rotate every year. The winners of those bowls would play in the championship.

I'm sure that would somehow involve fucking over revenue though.