Fucking ninjas

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masteen
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Fucking ninjas

Post by masteen »

(or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bots)

I dumped my ninja/TA mm at 24 because she was just too much work. The genin are VERY annoying to work with, as they don't like to close to melee nor do they reliably shoot their fucking bow. They just stand around throwing stars which do THE WORST damage of any of their attacks. The jounin are a little better, but one almost always hangs back, which means he's not doing the awesome placate and crit damage.

TA, while a very powerful debuff set, lacks a way to heal the goons, and that means I'm constantly resummoning the 1-2 ninja who do run into melee. It also requires constant attention, because the effects are fairly short duration, and combined with assault and tactics means I'm completely drained after even a moderate battle.

I made a bots/traps mm a couple nights ago, and there is simply no comparison. The bots bubble and heal themselves (once you get the protbot), so I just throw some caltrops down to keep the melee baddies away and keep the FF generator running.

So in closing:

Don't play ninja/TA. If you want ninjas, go dark or traps so you can heal them.

Bots are fun. OMFGLASERBEAMSPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW!
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Post by kyoukan »

I have a level 40 bots/traps MM and I heartily recommend the set. Once you get all your bots you will basically be able to kill anything short of an AV (and give some AV's a run for their money).

Oddly enough I also have a ninja/TA MM and I dont care for ninjas either. For the exact same reasons. Jounin, get your asses in melee range and mix it up for christs sake.

Tips for bots/traps:

Don't get any weapon attacks. Out of the primary tree all I took are the summons and the buffs. I also skipped repair because the re-use timer is too high even with recharge SO's, and the range on it is basically point blank. All I took was the 3 bots, equip and upgrade.

Get acid mortar. It helps a lot. It is basically what sentry gun should have been on the device tree, only you get it at like level 10. Slot it with 3 debuff and 1 recharge and you can use it every fight. It also has a ton of hit points (as much as your assault bot) and mobs will attack it. My drones go from hitting for 5.89 dmg (AE) a shot to a over 8 when acid mortar hits.

Don't get triage beacon until you can 6 slot it with SO's. Use aid other until then, and then respec it for triage beacon. With 3 heal and 3 recharge you can lay it down almost when it refreshes and the regen is significant enough to keep your bots going when fighting AE bosses and even super heroes.

force field drone is a must. 3 slot it with defense SO's and let it do its thing. Your drones and assault bots will have 3 bubbles up at any given time once you have two protector bots buffing. The prots will have two. Combined with triage beacon your drones will have a TON of damage mitigation.

Don't get seeker drones. Your prots will summon their own when you upgrade them at 32. They are kind of crappy anyway. They aren't that great when the prots summon them because their pathing sucks and they get lost a lot. But its a great backup if you are fighting a boss that cant be knocked back and he rushes in to attack your minions and eats 4 seeker drones all at once as soon as he gets into melee range.

Caltrops are a must. Actually the only trap power I didn't take was seeker drones after trying it out. I kind of regret taking detonate because you have to sacrifice your assault bot do any decent damage. It not too hard to make him again, but I would do a lot more damage overall if I had assault from the leadership pool instead.

Definitely get tactics and defense leadership. Leadership gives you another level of defense for your bots. That makes your drones and assault bot have 4 layers of defense plus their natural resistance to lethal. Plus awesome regeneration.

When you solo, dont use upgrade robot on your drones. Their auto fire attack takes too long to play out and they will use their burst from equip robot less. The burst knocks mobs down and you want your drones knocking down mobs as often as possible. If you're in a big group though, you'll want the AE damage from upgrade robot. Always upgrade your assault and protectors though!

It's a great combination. Probably the best combo for a MM. It's very defensive, but it puts out a shitload of damage. I solo effortlessly on relentless and would actually go even higher if the game would let me. They only time my minions die in regular missions is when they flip out and run out of range of my buffs. Usually when a drone takes it upon himself to stop using his gun and charge into a pack of level 43 longbows to use his melee attack is when I am remaking him 5 seconds later.

Teleport foe + trip mine = dance all night.

It will probably get nerfed next issue though, so level fast.

Make keybinds so when you tell your bots to follow you they go into passive mode. This will give you way more control over them and you can call them back into the range of your FF drone and supremacy buff when they scatter. And they will scatter. And they will be impossible to recall if you leave them in defensive.

Have a bind like:

/bind r petcom_all follow $$ petcom_all passive

and then

/bind e petcom_all attack $$ petcom_all defensive

You will have a lot more control over moving your bots around.

Mercs/traps would probably be even better as the mercs dont even have a melee attack so would never close to range. They also naturally resist smash/lethal (bots just resist lethal). The commando isn't as good as the assault bot though I don't think. Once you have a fully upgraded assault bot your DPS will triple.

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Post by masteen »

Mercs makes up for it by having a mid-tier goon that drops caltrops. Since you're dumping damage into the power anyway, the trop damage gets increased too, and never misses. Plus they pop disorient grenades when fully upgraded, iirc.

Dark has some equally nasty powers in it, but doesn't quite mesh as well with the leadership toggles because you have to do more during combat.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Post by kyoukan »

Spec ops get flash grenades with the first tier upgrade.

I dont think they get caltrops. Jounin do when you upgrade them.

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Post by masteen »

My bad. They get web grenades and flash bangs.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Fucking hell I wish I had time to play this.
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Post by Boogahz »

Yeah, MMs look pretty damn cool. Nice info there Kyou.

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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

input pls:
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.2.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Teknikas
Level: 37
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Robotics
Secondary: Traps
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Battle Drones==> Dmg(1) Acc(3) Acc(3) Dmg(19) Dmg(25) Acc(25)
01) --> Web Grenade==> Acc(1) Acc(33)
02) --> Caltrops==> Slow(2) Slow(5) Rechg(5) Rechg(7)
04) --> Triage Beacon==> TH_DeBuf(4) Rechg(7) Heal(9) Heal(19) Heal(31) Rechg(33)
06) --> Equip Robot==> Rechg(6)
08) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(8) Acc(9) Range(37) Range(37)
10) --> Acid Mortar==> DefDeBuf(10) DefDeBuf(11) Rechg(11)
12) --> Protector Bots==> DefBuf(12) TH_DeBuf(13) Acc(13) Dmg(31) Dmg(31)
14) --> Teleport==> Slow(14) Slow(15) EndRdx(15)
16) --> Force Field Generator==> DefBuf(16) DefBuf(17) DefBuf(17)
18) --> Assault==> EndRdx(18)
20) --> Poison Trap==> Slow(20) Slow(21) Hold(21) Hold(34) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
22) --> Tactics==> TH_Buf(22) TH_Buf(23) TH_Buf(23)
24) --> Repair==> Rechg(24)
26) --> Assault Bot==> Dmg(26) Dmg(27) Acc(27) KB_Dist(29) KB_Dist(29) Dmg(33)
28) --> Recall Friend==> Rechg(28)
30) --> Seeker Drones==> Empty(30)
32) --> Upgrade Robot==> Rechg(32)
35) --> Trip Mine==> EndRdx(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
Last edited by Drolgin Steingrinder on January 23, 2006, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Winnow »

That's a lot of 8) 's!

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Post by Boogahz »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:input pls:
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.2.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Teknikas
Level: 37
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Robotics
Secondary: Traps
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Battle Drones==> Dmg(1) Acc(3) Acc(3) Dmg(19) Dmg(25) Acc(25)
01) --> Web Grenade==> Acc(1) Acc(33)
02) --> Caltrops==> Slow(2) Slow(5) Rechg(5) Rechg(7)
04) --> Triage Beacon==> TH_DeBuf(4) Rechg(7) Heal(9) Heal(19) Heal(31) Rechg(33)
06) --> Equip Robot==> Rechg(6)
08) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(8) Acc(9) Range(37) Range(37)
10) --> Acid Mortar==> DefDeBuf(10) DefDeBuf(11) Rechg(11)
12) --> Protector Bots==> DefBuf(12) TH_DeBuf(13) Acc(13) Dmg(31) Dmg(31)
14) --> Teleport==> Slow(14) Slow(15) EndRdx(15)
16) --> Force Field Generator==> DefBuf(16) DefBuf(17) DefBuf(17)
18) --> Assault==> EndRdx(18)
20) --> Poison Trap==> Slow(20) Slow(21) Hold(21) Hold(34) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
22) --> Tactics==> TH_Buf(22) TH_Buf(23) TH_Buf(23)
24) --> Repair==> Rechg(24)
26) --> Assault Bot==> Dmg(26) Dmg(27) Acc(27) KB_Dist(29) KB_Dist(29) Dmg(33)
28) --> Recall Friend==> Rechg(28)
30) --> Seeker Drones==> Empty(30)
32) --> Upgrade Robot==> Rechg(32)
35) --> Trip Mine==> EndRdx(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
Disable Smilies 4tw!

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Post by kyoukan »

That is a lot like my set up, except I don't care for seeker drones, and I have manouvres instead of assault (but when I think about it I would probably prefer assault). I also took the fitness pool but I find that I don't really need it so I might respec out of it.

A lot of people like seeker drones for pulling because they have a ton of hit points and will absorb the alpha strike from a pack of mobs when you are in a big group. I'd rather use a drone for that and use the power for something else.

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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

I considered grabbing maneououeouvres instead of seeker drones (because of your advice) but I figured that that would almost require me to have Stamina with 3 toggles running? Kyou, pm me with who/where you play! My chars are a mighty 4 and 6 so far, and I'm still trying out powersets.
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Post by kyoukan »

I'm on champion. There are a few of us playing on there. You should join us!

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Post by Trek »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote: require me to have Stamina with 3 toggles running?

What the fuck does that mean!


ok so I never played :lol:

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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Updated - any input? 'bang is currently only level 19 so plenty of time to fix mistakes...

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.2.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Interrobang
Level: 41
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Robotics
Secondary: Traps
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Battle Drones
* Damage(1)
* Accuracy(3)
* Accuracy(3)
* Damage(9)
* Damage(19)
* Knockback Distance(25)

01) --> Web Grenade
* Accuracy(1)
* Accuracy(25)

02) --> Caltrops
* Slow(2)
* Slow(5)
* Recharge Reduction(5)
* Recharge Reduction(7)

04) --> Triage Beacon
* Recharge Reduction(4)
* Recharge Reduction(7)
* Healing(9)
* Healing(15)

06) --> Equip Robot
* Recharge Reduction(6)

08) --> Teleport Foe
* Accuracy(8)
* Accuracy(34)

10) --> Acid Mortar
* Defense DeBuff(10)
* Defense DeBuff(11)
* Recharge Reduction(11)
* Recharge Reduction(17)

12) --> Protector Bots
* Defense Buff(12)
* Defense Buff(13)
* Accuracy(13)
* Damage(15)
* To Hit DeBuff(31)
* Damage(33)

14) --> Teleport
* Range Increase(14)

16) --> Force Field Generator
* Defense Buff(16)
* Defense Buff(17)
* Defense Buff(19)

18) --> Assault
* End Reduction(18)

20) --> Poison Trap
* Hold Duration(20)
* Hold Duration(21)
* Recharge Reduction(21)
* Recharge Reduction(34)

22) --> Tactics
* To Hit Buff(22)
* To Hit Buff(23)
* To Hit Buff(23)

24) --> Repair
* Recharge Reduction(24)

26) --> Assault Bot
* Damage(26)
* Damage(27)
* Accuracy(27)
* Knockback Distance(29)
* Knockback Distance(31)
* Damage(33)

28) --> Seeker Drones
* Accuracy(28)
* Recharge Reduction(29)
* To Hit DeBuff(33)
* Recharge Reduction(34)

30) --> Maneuvers
* Defense Buff(30)
* End Reduction(31)

32) --> Upgrade Robot
* Recharge Reduction(32)

35) --> Trip Mine
* Accuracy(35)
* Damage(36)
* Damage(36)
* Damage(36)

38) --> Recall Friend
* Recharge Reduction(38)

---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint
* Run Speed(1)

01) --> Brawl
* Accuracy(1)

01) --> Supremacy
* Empty Enhancement(1)

02) --> Rest
* Recharge Reduction(2)

---------------------------------------------
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Post by masteen »

You can skip one of the ACC enhs on the battle drones and the web grenade, and should prolly put those 2 slots into end reducers for the leadership powers. Those will suck you dry unslotted.

I'm also not a fan of knockback, as the baddies can bounce around corners, break LOS, which means the bots go scampering off out of range of supremacy and leadership, and die.

I personally only stuck an immob in web grenade. You won't be using it all that much past 20, so don't waste a slot.

I also have 3 slows in trops. Keeping shit in front of the bots is key.

Putting anything but dmg, +def, or heal in the prot bots is a waste.
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

masteen wrote:You can skip one of the ACC enhs on the battle drones and the web grenade, and should prolly put those 2 slots into end reducers for the leadership powers. Those will suck you dry unslotted.

I'm also not a fan of knockback, as the baddies can bounce around corners, break LOS, which means the bots go scampering off out of range of supremacy and leadership, and die.

I personally only stuck an immob in web grenade. You won't be using it all that much past 20, so don't waste a slot.

I also have 3 slows in trops. Keeping shit in front of the bots is key.

Putting anything but dmg, +def, or heal in the prot bots is a waste.
Prot bots seem to hit like shit - even slotted with max level DOs. I've been wondering about the knockback thing, we shall see!
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Post by masteen »

I have my prot bots slotted with 2 damage, 2 defense, and 2 heals. Once you get your assault bot, you won't be as dependant on them for damage, and the extra defense and bigger heals make the little bots so much more durable.
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Post by Cotto »

So bots are good, ninja suck. What about Mercs and Zombies? And should I have taken teleport instead of flight?
Last edited by Cotto on February 16, 2006, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kwonryu DragonFist »

Cotto wrote:So bots are good, ninja suck. What about Mercs and Zombies?
Mercs are all about ranged combat (submachineguns and a big M-60 machinegun on the commando in the end), while zombies run to melee.

Only the final summon (Lich) has ranged attacks.

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