What to do with my scrapper this time around....

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What to do with my scrapper this time around....

Post by Ransure »

So here goes.. Im not sure on the Aug's and I get a bit fuzzy on the skills past about lvl 44... but heres what Ive got

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Katana
Secondary Powers - Defense : Regeneration
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Hack(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Rchg,Acc
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Fast Healing /Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal
Slot[03] Level 2 : Slice(Ktn) /Dmg,Acc,Rchg,Acc,EndRdx
Slot[04] Level 4 : Quick Recovery /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[05] Level 6 : Reconstruction /Rchg,Rchg,Heal,EndRdx
Slot[06] Level 8 : Swift /Run
Slot[07] Level 10 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[08] Level 12 : Combat Jumping /EndRdx,DefBuf
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump,Jump
Slot[10] Level 16 : Integration /EndRdx,Rchg,EndRdx,EndRdx,Rchg
Slot[11] Level 18 : Whirling Sword /Dmg,Acc,Rchg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[12] Level 20 : Health /Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal
Slot[13] Level 22 : Parry /Dmg,Acc
Slot[14] Level 24 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[15] Level 26 : Disembowel(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Rchg,EndRdx
Slot[16] Level 28 : Resilience /DamRes,DamRes
Slot[17] Level 30 : Taunt /Taunt,Rchg
Slot[18] Level 32 : Head Splitter(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Rchg,EndRdx,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Revive /Rchg
Slot[20] Level 38 : Moment Of Glory /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[21] Level 41 : Instant Healing /Rchg,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx
Slot[22] Level 44 : Teleport Foe /Acc,Acc,Rchg,IntTime,IntTime
Slot[23] Level 47 : Recall Friend /Rchg,Rchg
Slot[24] Level 49 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
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Post by Letania »

That is one really late build up. Build up helps a ton at leveling, getting it at 49 is almost pointless. 3 recharges is optimal effeciency, let's take a look at the math. Build up recharges at 90 seconds, with Hasten on (70%), plus 3 green SOs you get a recharge time of 33 seconds. With 4 green SOs you get a recharge time of 29 seconds. With 5 green SOs you get a recharge time of 26 seconds. And with 6 you get a recharge time of 23.6 Seconds. So if you have extra slots.. why not, but in my experience it's hard to build an uber leet regenner and have spare slots.

Fast healing and health need no slots, here's why. Really I'd get hurdle instead of health, helps SJ nicely.

Reconstruction, I skip it, but that makes the lower levels harder... No slots optimally. Don't feel bad if you slot it to help you get to 31 though, can respec the slots away when it becomes redundant.

6 slot QR. 6 slot stamina. QR takes higher priority over stamina, QR is 33% base, to stamina's 25%.

6 slot any attack you take (sans parry, brawl and boxing, they're utility, lame and prerequisite respectively).

You don't NEED tough. But you WANT tough. It's really good. 15% base resist; 33% resist smash/lethal when it's 6 slotted. Weave is 10% base defense, 22% fully slotted. Should drop your teleport pool for these two. Life is ROUGH 40+, before then you bask in the glory that is instant healing, but after that you need to the extra defense to take on the big alpha strikers.

Dull pain isn't in your build. 4 slots + hasten and it's on all the time, don't skip it! Buffers against alpha strike and makes you heal more hp/second. This is one of the most effecient defensive options you can do, in terms of slots.

Moment of glory is absolute trash at the moment. You should get it later, you have a lot of things to slot at 38 and couldn't even slot it then if you wanted to. I'd bet good money MoG will be changed though, so, keep it in mind in your 40s.

I want to stress again to 6 slot your Hack, Slice, WS, Disembowel, and Head Splitter. Try to pack as much damage as you can in there. Stay away from recharge reducers, hasten takes care of that. Endrdx are alright when used liberally. Just don't gimp your dmg.

Resilience. This is worth 6 slotting in my opinion, but it's a low priority. 7.5% base resist I think, so 16.5 fully slotted. Stacked with tough you now have a beautiful 49.5% resist to smashing/lethal! Assuming both are fully slotted.

Integration is waaaaay overslotted. I go 2 endredux if my build allows it, 1 otherwise; 3 max.

Your jumping slots, I don't see a point. I mean you go a bit faster but it's better off in attacks or Tough, Resilience, Dull Pain.. etc.

I just noticed. INSTANT HEALING AT 41 IS ABSOLUTELY BATSHIT INSANE. It's your cornerstone with Integration. Switch it with resilience! 2 Endrdx and 4 Heals is ideal as well, if your IH goes down it's time to run, no amount of recharge is going to make it come back fast enough unless you're fighting mobs you don't need the IH for in the first place.

A final note on defense. There's 3 main pillars to defense, they're Healing, Defense (avoidance), and Resistance. When you start to combine these pillars you become really powerful. Ask an empath (hi masteen) how much stronger a scrapper or tank, or even blaster is because of fortitude AND his heals. They synergize eachother beautifully. The same applies to instant healing and Tough, Weave, Resilience, and other defensive abilities. This is also why invulnerability is so god damned ridiculous in it's current state (shown here).

Sorry for the lack of organization, I just scanned your build over and over and kept making notes until I felt I had a good list ;p

Hope this helps, see you in game.

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Post by miir »

Slot all your attacks with 5 dmg, 1 acc
Integration - 2 End Reduction
Health & Fast Healing - Do not slot

Get Instant Healing at 28 and slot it 2 End reduction and 4 heal

Dont get taunt
Get Buildup asap


Work Boxing/Tough into your build in the 30s.
Revive and MOG are pretty much useless.
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Post by miir »

To go into a little more detail...


Katana has low endurance cost, fast animations, good recharge plus you're getting hasten.
Slotting them for recharge reduction offers little benefit because you should be able to maintain a steady chain of attacks, even if you only have 3.

Slotting attacks for endurance reduction is counterproductive. The endurance you save is lower than the endurance it costs to deal the damage you are losing bt not using that slot for damage. You have QR and Stamina and until you get the the point where you have Integration and IH on all the time, you are going to be overflowing with endurance.

Combat Jumping doesn't really need the extra slot. It's such a marginal endurance drain... pop a defense enhancement in it and forget about it.

Slotting Super Jump? It scales with level and by the low 30s you're gonna be pretty close to the max height/speed. My Kin defender has Inertial Reduction and Super Jump (which stack) and is virtually impossible to tell the height difference of having one or both on.

Parry, I'm not so sure about. Some people hate, some love it. It might be useful in the later levels as a tool to let Instant Healing catch up after a nasty alpha strike.

Keep Reconstruction. It helps immensely in the lower levels but not so much after 28. After you get IH, you may want to respec it out for Dull Pain.

Dude, you're a fucking ass monkey for not having Instant Healing as your level 28 power. It's the single most important power in the entire set.
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Post by miir »

Here is my recommended build:

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Katana
Secondary Powers - Defense : Regeneration

Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Hack(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Fast Healing /Heal
Level 2 : Slice(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 4 : Quick Recovery /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Level 6 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Level 8 : Reconstruction /Rchg,Heal,Heal
Level 10 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Level 12 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Level 16 : Integration /EndRdx,EndRdx
Level 18 : Whirling Sword /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 20 : Hurdle /Jump
Level 22 : Swift /Run
Level 24 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Level 26 : Disembowel(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 28 : Instant Healing /Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal,EndRdx,EndRdx

Level 30 : Resilience /DamRes
Level 32 : Head Splitter(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,DmgLevel 35 : Dull Pain(Regen) /Rchg,Rchg
Level 35 : Dull Pain(Regen) /Rchg,Rchg

That will give you a solid build to your low 30s at which point you could do a respec trial and swap Reconstruction for Boxing so you can get Tough at 38.
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Post by Ransure »

Blah, I was hoping to negate the need for IH with Stamina/Fast Heal max slotted... guess thats not gonna work... Gonna have to respec to pull the 5 I have in FH out... That looks like a nice build Miir, but I already have Swift and didnt think I needed Hurdle (do I?) with SJ and CJ....

I can see how Reconstruction goes away in the higher lvl game.. From what Ive read before, having 5 of the same dmg modifier has diminishing returns... is this still true?

Hadnt played with build up before... so I wasnt sure of its benifits... same with MOG and Revive... if they suck, they can go... I dont see Parry in the setup, is it all but useless? or should I take it for the pre30 game and respec it later to something else (Hurdle perhaps?)

I am here atm:

Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Hack(Ktn) /Acc,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Fast Healing /Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal
Slot[03] Level 2 : Slice(Ktn) /Dmg,Acc
Slot[04] Level 4 : Quick Recovery /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[05] Level 6 : Reconstruction /Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Swift /Run
Slot[07] Level 10 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[08] Level 12 : Combat Jumping /EndRdx,DefBuf

From my previous scrapper, Integration was a HUGE help through the 20's but if you both say it isnt neccessary.. Course that time around I was running CJ + Stealth as my DefBuff's... so loosing my toggles was a complete bitch...

What I might do is go respec Ransure on Victory and see what I like...
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Post by miir »

I was hoping to negate the need for IH with Stamina/Fast Heal max slotted...
Not even close.
Six slotting Fast Healing and Health will barely reach 5% of the effectiveness of an unslotted instant healing.

I already have Swift and didnt think I needed Hurdle (do I?) with SJ and CJ
Doesn't really matter.
The first 2 powers in the fitness pool aren't very important.

From what Ive read before, having 5 of the same dmg modifier has diminishing returns... is this still true?
Completely untrue.
Even with buildup and 5 dmg slots in your attacks, you would still be a good bit away from the 400% max damage cap.


Hadnt played with build up before... so I wasnt sure of its benifits... same with MOG and Revive... if they suck, they can go... I dont see Parry in the setup, is it all but useless? or should I take it for the pre30 game and respec it later to something else (Hurdle perhaps?)
Buildup is pure assbeat.... you'll love it.
I'm really unsure about parry.. like I said, some love it, some hate it and a lot have said they would get rid of it on respec. In the build I posted, I stuck to powers that everyone seems to agree on.


If you really want to get MOG, make sure you get Revive... you'll need it.


From my previous scrapper, Integration was a HUGE help through the 20's but if you both say it isnt neccessary..
You misread.
Integration and Instant Healing are the 2 key powers in Regen.
Our point was that your build had it way overslotted.
2 (maybe 3) slots with endurance reduction is recommended.
Anything more is totally unnecessary.
Last edited by miir on September 21, 2004, 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ransure »

MOG stack with IH?.... I know wishfull thinking and all...
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Post by masteen »

I would think about taking taunt early, unless you play with a provoke tanker all the time. I know that hypothetically, you should be doing enough damage to keep shit on you, but it's REAL nice not to have to chase the MOB that is aggro on your controller.
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Post by miir »

Bleh on taunt/provoke for a scrapper.

Any controller worth a damn will lead off fights and have everything locked down instantly. Just as long as the tank/crapper unloads on the boss while they are waiting on their hold to cycle.

Had Ransure's gimpy ass SK'd to my 'troller last night for a few missions and aggro was never an issue. I lined em up and Ranusre (and my monkeys) knocked em down.

Was pretty funny seeing a level 11 whacking shrooms for 200. :lol:
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Post by masteen »

How many acc do you have in your AOE immob and hold?
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Post by miir »

2 of course.
They have -20 accuracy so you need to have 2 or be running tactics.
I even have 2 in my single target hold, because I really don't like to miss holds.
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Post by Ransure »

Yea, that was great, I was hitting everything else for 30's and shrooms for 200.... it was nice :)
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Post by masteen »

I may be biased re: taunt for my scrapper because I always play her in a fixed group with an AR/exproit blaster and a dark/dark defender. Being able to taunt that one lt. that both the pit and the trops missed back on to the morass is very useful.
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Post by Ransure »

After going through most of the lvl 13 TF today with a gimp ass group and a pretty good Kat/Regen scrapper leading (no, not me :p) and pulling with Taunt... I definately see myself getting that skill..

On Victory Ransure I have TP Foe... with 3 ACC augs in it... gets me singles on everything but bosses.. but Id have to fully slot it to make it work the way I want...
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Post by miir »

But why would you want to pull singles?

That's all fine and good for the lowbie levels and with a weak build, but as you could see last night, it's far more effective (and way more fun) post 30 to take on groups of 10+ mobs.


So many builds are much more effective with large groups of mobs.
Tankers, Dark/Rad defenders, most scrappers and controllers.
Hell, Rachel is actually weaker when fighting smaller groups of mobs. Soul Drain on 10 mobs nearly doubles her damage output.
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Post by masteen »

Pulling singles is good when you're solo, but that's not the reason I have it. Keeping your weaker teammates alive is a good thing.
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Post by miir »

masteen wrote:Pulling singles is good when you're solo, but that's not the reason I have it.
Like I said, other than at lowbie levels who fights singles?

When I solo on my scrappers, I'll most often pass by groups of 2-3 in favour of that group of ten, 100 feet down the street. 1-shotting a half dozen mobs mobs with shadow maul or hitting 10 with a eviscerate/spin combo is way more fun and effective.

I hate doing solo missions on my scrappers.
Groups of 2-3 even level mobs with an occasional LT is ridiculously boring.

I grabbed a level 28 (who leveled twice) SG-mate to SK Ransure (who leveled like 4 times and worked off about 5k debt) for some of my level 37 misisons last night.
Now soloing a mission populated for 3-4 people is actually fun. Packs of 8-12 COT, double red bosses... wheeee... I actually had to use inspirations instead of just spamming my tray empty every few minutes.
If I had taunted singles out, the mission would have taken hours.

Keeping your weaker teammates alive is a good thing.
Bah, a scrappers job is to make things dead, not worry about blasters who cant control their aggro. Dead mobs can't hurt weaker teammates.


Using an attack cycle to taunt one badguy is way less effective than hitting a Soul Drain on 10 mobs, or slamming an Eviscerate on 6 mobs and dealing 1.5k damage.
Tankers and controllers have all the tools to keep packs of mobs under control so your scrappers and blasters can make things dead.
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Post by masteen »

Don't tell me about controllers, because nobody wants to fucking play one of those boring bitches up high enough to get a pet and stop sucking.

SO, GIVEN THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO CONTROLA POWAH, the scrapper/office linebacker role need to be filled, and without taunt, it would be harder.
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Post by Letania »

Well ok. But if a blaster AEs a pack, 'taunt' isn't going to do shit for him, an AE attack + proximity aggro might... If a blaster is tracing a single target, taunt isn't going to do shit there either, blasters don't let single targets live long. Unless it's a boss, and the scrapper probably has the boss engaged in melee anyways. In this game, it's really provoke with taunt as a backup, or don't bother.

I've also noticed just being near mobs as a scrapper (ie pounding on things) tends to gravitate mobs towards you. Proximity aggro seems pronounced in coh.

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Post by miir »

masteen wrote:Don't tell me about controllers, because nobody wants to fucking play one of those boring bitches up high enough to get a pet and stop sucking.

SO, GIVEN THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO CONTROLA POWAH, the scrapper/office linebacker role need to be filled, and without taunt, it would be harder.
Come and play on Champion, I'll make another controller.. Ice/Rad maybe. :P

Hell yeah, I'll make a totally offensive controller with Boxing and shit and respec him/her in the late 20s... woohah!

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Post by masteen »

My friend must be the aggro master then, because when he's on the case shit seldom gets to the blasters. I see it work every time we get together.
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Post by miir »

masteen wrote:My friend must be the aggro master then, because when he's on the case shit seldom gets to the blasters. I see it work every time we get together.
Heh, maybe you group with blasters who actually know a few things about aggro management.. either that or they are single target blasters.




I totally fucking hate blasters who initiate combat and use nothing but AEs. The same shitheads who bitch about having so much debt.
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Post by Animalor »

So how is the game now compared to back at release?

Is it less repetitive than it was before?

Have the addition of the last 2 major updates made things better?

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Post by masteen »

We explain to them that if they hit their AOEs before the burn patch is going, then I will not heal them. It's pretty simple.

EDIT: Well, the MOBs are a bit smarter and tougher, there is more vareity in baddies post-30, and the door missions are slightly less repetitive. But it's still the same game it's always been.
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Post by miir »

There's much more variety in the repetition!

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Post by Ransure »

Gotta say, after leaving right before update 1 and comming back now... WOW... the game has changed OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS.. mob AI is drastically improved.. giving you a good bit of challange... Door missions are waaaayyyy harder in the lower levels.... and a serious challange to do solo...
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Post by Letania »

It's the same game it's always been. All about combat, with some story elements thrown in (on a side note, the mission exp has been boosted a TON so the story is actually worth following).

There's a few more trials in now and, as far as I know, there's uber enhancements now. I can see a small-team (8-24 people) end game raiding environment developing in this game, with the main hangup being reward. The prospect of all your 'loot' dying off once the level cap goes up is kinda bleh. The devs have definitely shown the ability to think outside the box, and then implement their ideas, for hard encounters.
Come and play on Champion, I'll make another controller.. Ice/Rad maybe.
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And I second that you should come play on Champ, sir.

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Post by Ransure »

I would like to third that vote...
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Post by Drustwyn »

I think it's the same game.. However, it does have some of the new challenges mentioned above. Many of my friends have quit playing recently, which was the main reason I kept playing.

I just hit 36 yesterday, and am loving my controller even more. I can solo very well and group, and whichever way I choose to play, it is now a challenge given the recent changes.

I must admit, I enjoy the non-competitive nature of the game. I don't feel like a gimp, even if I know I sometimes am one. :)

Also, the Swedes are a loveable bunch.

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Kwonryu DragonFist
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Post by Kwonryu DragonFist »

Ransure, PM Pengu (here on VVault).

He is a Master with regen-line and could give you lots of tips/Advice!

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miir
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Post by miir »

Hehe, I've already given ransure a tongue lashing for his build.


I have a few regen crappers.
I have a pretty good idea how they should be built and slotted.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z

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Post by masteen »

Well, thru the first 10 levels with my friends' two gimps, I really haven't missed taunt. The spines primary really does a great job of holding aggro, and we haven't had too many problems, even without a controller. I'm guessing the damage combined with the DOT and slow of the poison easily positions me atop the hate list.

We'll see how it goes as we push toward 20 this week.
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