Computer upgrade questions

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 8, 2013, 7:56 pm

So I'm going to upgrade my computer here over the next few months and was looking for some advice. I plan on just upgrading because I like my case, and I'm unsure if I really need to upgrade my motherboard/cpu but I don't think I do.

Here is what I have for a cpu:
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz, 2668 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)

I also have 2x 1TB HDD's, and a 5770 HD for my GPU.

I'm unsure of what motherboard I have.. Is there a way to check this in Windows (I don't see a model anywhere on the board itself).

What I'm thinking of doing:

-Video card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130794
(GTX 680 4GB)

-Upgrading the Power supply to at least around 800W, maybe more like 1000.

-Upgrading to 16GB GSKill ram (4GBx4)

-Adding a third 1TB internal

Here are my concerns:

I want this to still be able to run the next wave of games coming out at max settings, and after the upgrade I'd like to get another 3 years out of it anyhow.
*would it be better just to do the mobo/processor too?
*Considering what I want to add - I don't know if my cooling will be sufficient ( I currently have one fan on the back of the case, one huge on on the processor and one in the front under the HD's).

Any thoughts/suggestions would be welcome!

Edit: I also noticed a lot of boot degradation warnings in the event viewer, ranging from warnings to a couple critical, and are being caused by various processes/hardware (not seeing too many repeat offenders) - Is this likely just an indicator of it being time for me to get a fresh Windows installation going? I can give more details if that's not enough info to go off of.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2013, 8:24 pm

I have the same CPU you have and feel no need to upgrade. I do have the GTX670 though which may be an upgrade to what you currently have.

Biggest improvement you can make is buying a Samsung 840 SSD Pro 256GB drive for your OS and main games. Nothing else will some close to the improvement that will make and SSD wasn't even on your list.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147193

Video card and the SSD will be a nice boost.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 8, 2013, 8:26 pm

Yeah I was thinking about doing that, but the one hurdle that I was running over in my head was how to reinstall Windows being as I don't have the disk/s. I obviously have a key for it, but I don't want to have to download it from a torrent site or something silly like that.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2013, 8:50 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah I was thinking about doing that, but the one hurdle that I was running over in my head was how to reinstall Windows being as I don't have the disk/s. I obviously have a key for it, but I don't want to have to download it from a torrent site or something silly like that.

That's why I keep (kept) my OS partition small so I could always just back it up and then install it onto a new drive. If your OS partition is huge, it may not be feasible.

I'm finally legit with the (now expired offer) super cheap $40 upgrade to windows 8 Pro. It's worth moving to SSD. 256GB is a good size as you can install your OS and a handful of your most preferred games on the super fast SSD. If it's performance upgrades you're looking for, you're only as good as your weakest link and an SSD upgrade is the most significant upgrade you can make (especially if you're moving to a motherboard than can has SATA2), with the Video Card second. CPU upgrade will have the least impact as will RAM unless you currently only have like 4GB. I only have 6GB of ram which is pushing it on the low end. 12-16 GB would make sense now if upgrading since it's so cheap.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 8, 2013, 8:54 pm

Yeah, it wouldn't be the end of the world to purchase another copy of Windows I guess. My OS partition is definitely out of control.

I'm unsure about whether or not I'll bother with the motherboard. I've never done it, and while I'm fairly confident I could figure it out without much trouble, I don't want to if it isn't going to significantly impact me. I have 6GB of RAM, and it's probably shitty ram cause it's just what came from Dell... I definitely notice spikes where my RAM usage is way up there, although I know that's partially due to Windows always holding onto about 20% of it at all times making that the baseline.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 8, 2013, 10:40 pm

Winnow wrote:Biggest improvement you can make is buying a Samsung 840 SSD Pro 256GB drive for your OS and main games. Nothing else will some close to the improvement that will make and SSD wasn't even on your list.

For loading the OS and the games themselves maybe. But not actual improvement when it comes to running the games since disk speed isn't going to do anything to help your frame rate. I'm not saying don't get one... Just don't expect to "run the next wave of games coming out at max settings" because of it.

To identify your motherboard you can use a program such as CPU-Z. Get it free from here. The information will be on the Mainboard tab.

A new video card is a good idea. I'm not sure a 680 is really worth the extra over the 670 but that's up to you. And if you have no allegiance to nvidia then from what I read the ATI (AMD.. Whatever) are currently a better deal as far as price/performance goes.

I don't really see a need to upgrade the power supply though. What do you currently have? Same for memory. What do you currently have? (Edit: I see where you have 6GB. Is your OS currently 32bit or 64bit?)

Also what version of Windows are you currently running? You can get legit Windows 7 ISOs online which should work if you have a valid license key. Don't give Microsoft any money for Windows 8!

Personally if I didn't feel like doing a whole system upgrade I'd probably start with just getting a new video card and go from there. I upgraded from the i7 920 to an i7 Ivy Bridge (3770K) and while it's not night and day I think it was worth it. But I also was looking for a new motherboard due to different reasons.

If the cooling in your current system is fine I doubt you'd need to upgrade it just from putting in a new video card and maybe another hard drive.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 9, 2013, 12:19 am

Thanks for the info on CPU-Z, I'll get that and get my mobo situation figured out.

I don't necessarily have any allegiance to nvidia, but from what I've read the drivers are more stable. With my current ATI card I have a version that's like 10 versions old because none of the newer ones are stable and cause various issues with my video/sound.

My current power supply is a corsair 650W. I'm running 64bit Windows 7 Ultimate, and either way I'm definitely sticking with Windows 7 for now (resist the urge, Winnow).

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 9, 2013, 1:01 am

Funkmasterr wrote:Thanks for the info on CPU-Z, I'll get that and get my mobo situation figured out.

I don't necessarily have any allegiance to nvidia, but from what I've read the drivers are more stable. With my current ATI card I have a version that's like 10 versions old because none of the newer ones are stable and cause various issues with my video/sound.

My current power supply is a corsair 650W. I'm running 64bit Windows 7 Ultimate, and either way I'm definitely sticking with Windows 7 for now (resist the urge, Winnow).

I'd think 650W would be good enough. I don't currently know what the newer video cards require, however.

Try this for a Win7 Ultimate 64b ISO. I haven't actually downloaded these myself but Digital River is a legit source. You can find similar info here as well as many other places if you Google it. Although in that last link it does say you need to do phone activation but if you have a license key I'd think it would be no problem. If not there are ways 'around' that at least you'll have a clean ISO not from a torrent so wont have to worry about any trojans or whatever. With the added benefit of not having a crappy OS like Windows 8!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 9, 2013, 2:42 am

Get an SSD, you won't regret it. Biggest improvement you can make to your system. Games don't completely load into memory all at once. There seem to be anti speed people on this forum that don't appreciate doing things faster and quieter...loading zones, maps, chapters, OS...EVERYTHING...much faster. Next would be a video card. After researching them (and you can find that research on this forum) I went with the GTX670. It's a much better value than the GTX680, barely losing any performance in comparison. There were plenty of pissed 680 owners after the 670 and benchmarks were announced.

I don't know why anyone wouldn't use an SSD for their OS drive at this point.

My track record is good when it comes to PC upgrades, all laid out in detail on this forum as well. I think a few people used at least part of my i7 920 build a few years back:

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 25&t=23769

I emphasize a combination of performance/value when creating a new system and at least try to explain my reasoning behind the various components, even if they may not apply to your specific needs.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 9, 2013, 3:10 am

Winnow wrote:Get an SSD, you won't regret it. Biggest improvement you can make to your system. Games don't completely load into memory all at once. There seem to be anti speed people on this forum that don't appreciate doing things faster and quieter...loading zones, maps, chapters, OS...EVERYTHING...much faster. Next would be a video card. After researching them (and you can find that research on this forum) I went with the GTX670. It's a much better value than the GTX680, barely losing any performance in comparison. There were plenty of pissed 680 owners after the 670 and benchmarks were announced.

Which people? Considering I own two SSDs you must be referring to someone else. I am not saying do not purchase an SSD. However I stick by my assertion that if running games at max settings is your primary goal then the video card should be your first purchase. Then sure pick up an SSD (or two). People have gotten along decades without SSDs! Video will always be the bigger bottleneck than loading times.

Oooo image. 77 degrees!

Everything else seems fairly cool compared to what I was seeing with my i7 920.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 9, 2013, 3:55 am

SSD are pretty important if they're the last bottleneck left and you're playing something with poor code, like Battlefield 2 which let the fastest texture loading player get in 20 seconds early and run half the length of a map before other players joined. All but completely irrelevant to the hard core WoW arena nerd though, unless you need an extra 20s to scratch your arse before putting in peak performance.

If you do have a particularly badly coded single player game it does cover a lot of sins of poor design, but it's a while since I've played anything where "load times" off modern SATA disks has bothered me.

It's all rather moot until you work out what you can do with your current motherboard in terms of video/memory upgrades.

That said too, I used to have 8GB in the old computer and dropped down to 6GB triple channel in the new one since nothing was going even *close* to using it, so I'm not sure you'll get much benefit out of 16GB unless you're a closet photoshop artist dealing in 8K canvases....

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 9, 2013, 4:02 am

I'll figure out the motherboard stuff and post that.

The only other thing that I intend to do that may hog ram/video resources is editing video with cyberlink powerdirector ultimate suite 11.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 9, 2013, 7:13 am

Zaelath wrote:That said too, I used to have 8GB in the old computer and dropped down to 6GB triple channel in the new one since nothing was going even *close* to using it, so I'm not sure you'll get much benefit out of 16GB unless you're a closet photoshop artist dealing in 8K canvases....

I never understood that. I easily burn through 6GB. If all you do is run one program at a time then sure why not. But memory is cheap these days it's really a nobrainer to go at least 8 (preferably more!). But it does really depend on how you use your computer and what you use it for. I should have purchased 8x4 instead of 4x4. Or even 8x2 at least then I could have easily dropped in two more and wouldn't have had to turn swapping back on since I was routinely hitting 100% memory usage. Windows isn't happy when it runs out of memory!

The best thing to do is monitor your memory usage over a couple weeks. If you are routinely using all your memory and having it swap out to disk all the time that's not efficient.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 9, 2013, 8:24 am

Aslanna wrote: I never understood that. I easily burn through 6GB.

If I didn't run noscript I could see Firefox chewing up more than it does, and it's easy to use memory if you let stupid things do so (Foxit Updater is 500Mb... for an updater... wtf?)

I haven't run from swap ever on this machine, and it's running 2x24" 1x27" screens and the steam game on special any given week still runs perfectly well in the 6GB, I haven't tried Skyrim though, POS.

If you're idling above 6GB then it's not just because you "run more than one thing"...

miir · Post by **miir** » February 9, 2013, 11:15 am

I'm running Steam, Rift, Chrome with 8 tabs and Outlook and my memory use is at 1.7 gigs.
Not sure how much crap you're running that you easily burn through 6 gigs.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 9, 2013, 3:01 pm

I've definitely seen my ram plateau out at like 80% used more than once. From what I've read powerdirector eats ram for breakfast.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 9, 2013, 3:12 pm

since you said you have an i7 920, there is no upgrade path for your CPU on your current mobo, that isn't stupid expensive. They have a hexacore i7 960 or something, but they still go for $500+. In other words, keep your CPU/Mobo, and get a 7970 or 670 GPU. ATI has been giving away great games with their GPU's lately, easily knocking 100 bux off the cost if you planned on buying them at release.

If all you do is run benchmarks, your CPU is shit. If you use your PC for games, programs, web, etc, then your CPU is fine. You could always OC the shit out of that 920, its a classic OC beast with some half decent cooling. IF memory serves, an i7 920 running at 3.8ghz is equal to the i5 k series ivy bridge out now.

Also, Haswell releases in 2H of this year, should probably just wait for the latest intel socket, 1150 I think.

So, to review:
step 1: buy new video card first. See if that makes it enough of an improvement (it will in games).
step 2: if still unhappy, OC. If still unhappy, ssd. If still unhappy, hope it took long enough for haswell to release and go spend money at Microcenter.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 9, 2013, 3:37 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Zaelath wrote:That said too, I used to have 8GB in the old computer and dropped down to 6GB triple channel in the new one since nothing was going even *close* to using it, so I'm not sure you'll get much benefit out of 16GB unless you're a closet photoshop artist dealing in 8K canvases....
I never understood that. I easily burn through 6GB. If all you do is run one program at a time then sure why not. But memory is cheap these days it's really a nobrainer to go at least 8 (preferably more!). But it does really depend on how you use your computer and what you use it for. I should have purchased 8x4 instead of 4x4. Or even 8x2 at least then I could have easily dropped in two more and wouldn't have had to turn swapping back on since I was routinely hitting 100% memory usage. Windows isn't happy when it runs out of memory!

The best thing to do is monitor your memory usage over a couple weeks. If you are routinely using all your memory and having it swap out to disk all the time that's not efficient.

I run a crap-ton of apps on my PC and probably average 10 open tabs in Firefox with only 6GB of RAM. With three active monitors, I tend to leave a lot of programs running. I'll move up to 12-16 GB at some point but it really doesn't concern me right now. If memory is a concern...then you're running programs that would definitely take advantage of an SSD anyway so that would be the best single upgrade.

SSD would be your best upgrade for your entire system and will also help with games. As for video cards, I haven't run into anything that the GTX670 can't handle on a 1920x1080 screen. If you are planning on running multiple monitors on 2560x1440 screens, then you go for the GTX680 or whatever the latest card is if there's something newer.

Don't discount bandwidth. Fast data makes things smoother. (again, there are those on this board that thought 6Mb/s was fine so they'll fight speed every step of the way) There's never enough. I had 50 Mb/s and 150 Mb/s is noticeable for even simple things like web browsing. You can "get by" with less, but more isn't a waste if you can afford it.

You should have bought Windows 8 Pro for $40.00 (even upgraded hacked versions as long as it shows genuine in My Computer). Best deal wasted on many since they got all uppity about Metro which is a non factor, denying them of an overall better OS. Rock solid, going on 4 months.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 9, 2013, 5:05 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Aslanna wrote: I never understood that. I easily burn through 6GB.
If I didn't run noscript I could see Firefox chewing up more than it does, and it's easy to use memory if you let stupid things do so (Foxit Updater is 500Mb... for an updater... wtf?)

I haven't run from swap ever on this machine, and it's running 2x24" 1x27" screens and the steam game on special any given week still runs perfectly well in the 6GB,

Do you have swap turned off? If not than something is always sitting out there. It doesn't only get used when your memory usage starts hitting 100%. How about disabling it (miir too!) and running for awhile and see how things look then. If so then grats on the memory diet!

A typical scenario what I nearly always have going on would be a window or two of windows explorer open, newsleecher, yahoo messenger, a media player, Firefox (with way more than 10 tabs open.. You don't want to know!), EQ, usually VMWare running a session (which I think I allocate 2GB to), and I also have a 3GB RamDisk setup for cache type activities. In addition to any services I may be running and other assorted programs I only load on occasion like Word or Excel. If you could run all that in less than 6GB or less then you're a memory usage master and I bow to your awesomeness. But on the other hand I don't care. I'll just buy the RAM I know I can, and will, use and not worry about it.

Regardless, I'm happy with my memory situation although more would be nice. That's why they sell more than one size. It's all about options! If people can run happily with 4, 6 or 8 more power to them. But with the price of memory these days it doesn't really make sense to go small unless all you do is play Farmville and send email. I really don't know why people get so defensive over it. Everyone uses their computer differently that's why I suggested monitoring memory usage over a couple weeks and use that as a basis for what to buy. If you never go over 8 then buying 16 makes no sense.

As far as Windows 8 goes. People should be glad they didn't waste $40 on that. Use that money to double up your RAM from 8GB to 16GB! Windows 7 is just as "rock solid" as 8. I haven't had a single OS crash since I installed on May-2012. So really not sure what makes Windows 8 "better" other than people trying to justify throwing money at Microsoft!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 9, 2013, 5:59 pm

Aslanna wrote:I really don't know why people get so defensive over it. Everyone uses their computer differently that's why I suggested monitoring memory usage over a couple weeks and use that as a basis for what to buy. If you never go over 8 then buying 16 makes no sense.

So... we're in agreement

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 10, 2013, 1:24 am

There's the motherboard infos.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 10, 2013, 3:37 pm

yep, dell board, so super restricted. Definitely no worthwhile upgrade path on the CPU. Just grab a nice GPU and roll with it.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 10, 2013, 6:01 pm

Kluden wrote:yep, dell board, so super restricted. Definitely no worthwhile upgrade path on the CPU. Just grab a nice GPU and roll with it.

Tend to agree; you might be able to get some more RAM if there's some empty slots on the board, but I wouldn't, because when you decide the GPU alone isn't enough of an upgrade in a couple of years, you'll probably need to replace MB/CPU/RAM all at once.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 10, 2013, 6:35 pm

Fo sho. I might end up doing the MB/RAM sooner than later just because, but I'll start with the GPU (might still do RAM) and possibly a SSD. Is there a good program to monitor my power usage so I can see if my current power supply is going to be sufficient?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 10, 2013, 8:29 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Fo sho. I might end up doing the MB/RAM sooner than later just because, but I'll start with the GPU (might still do RAM) and possibly a SSD. Is there a good program to monitor my power usage so I can see if my current power supply is going to be sufficient?

Probably not; if there was it would be vendor specific since that kind of metric would need to be supplied from the motherboard and often isn't.

I'd take a punt, depending on what kind of delivered cost is involved, on just using the current power supply; after confirming that it has enough of the correct power connectors to power the new video card. That's based on the experience that you have a "known good" power supply and the new one has a chance to be faulty. Might be worth having a new one on the shelf if the old one is a bit under-powered and the system is unstable.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 10, 2013, 9:28 pm

If you are interested in OC'ing, and your find the dell parameters lacking, you could pick up an x58 board fairly cheap at this stage in the game. You could always roll with the evga bstock stuff. I've done that in the past with fine results on the mobo side, and it comes with a 1yr warranty, so its not too big a risk. this is assuming they still have some x58 boards around, but considering everyone was buying their boards back then, they probably have a few models. The cheapest one is still going to be better than anything dell puts out.

Or, you could just find a x58 board for sale on a forum somewhere that OCers frequent. There's plenty of them. I'm partial to HardOCP.

But at this stage in the game, its better to spend money on only things you can carry forward. So GPU and and SSD are just about it. If you have 3 x 2gb sticks of ram, no use trying to hunt down more with a full upgrade in your future next year, within a year, etc.

edit: on power supplies, I'll tell you this, I don't think your Dell power supply will work with other brand mobos. They used to have different plugs on them. Not sure if yours does, just know there was a time when they were uber stupid. As for size of power supplies, its fairly exaggerated on what they can and cannot handle. Most calculators assume full load, you won't be doing that unless benching. I ran a very power hungry SLI setup a few years back with a corsair 620W unit. Just buy quality on the power supply side, and you won't have to fear a thing.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 10, 2013, 10:18 pm

Kluden wrote: edit: on power supplies, I'll tell you this, I don't think your Dell power supply will work with other brand mobos. They used to have different plugs on them. Not sure if yours does, just know there was a time when they were uber stupid. As for size of power supplies, its fairly exaggerated on what they can and cannot handle. Most calculators assume full load, you won't be doing that unless benching. I ran a very power hungry SLI setup a few years back with a corsair 620W unit. Just buy quality on the power supply side, and you won't have to fear a thing.

It's not quite that bad with Dell PSUs now... they used to do shit like change the pinout on standard AT connectors so they'd blow up motherboards... it's usually just a problem that any replacement PSU won't fit the Dell case, or the fan is mounted upside down, etc, etc.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 10, 2013, 10:25 pm

I have a corsair 650w, not the stock one.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 11, 2013, 12:32 am

Funkmasterr wrote:I have a corsair 650w, not the stock one.

Had another look at that card you linked at first, it's a massive overspend imo... but says, "Minimum of a 550 Watt power supply." in the specs on EVGA's site. Might be ok, might not.

Looking at the benchmark comparison (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598?vs=555) I'd save a couple hundred and get http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130787 with a minimum 500W PSU.

Even if it blew up in 2 years you will have saved half the money to buy the next gen card that's 10x faster than the 680 anyway, instead of 10%..

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 11, 2013, 1:14 am

Well you're the second person to say that now, so I'll look at getting that one instead of the 680. Like you said, probably won't be terribly long before I upgrade again anyhow.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 11, 2013, 2:26 am

Thanks for all the advice so far, you guys are the bees knees.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 12, 2013, 4:02 pm

I have that 670 FTW in my rig, so it will work, does for me at 2560x1440 at full settings all games.

I would just grab whatever the cheapest 670 is, sine they are all basically the same. I went with that FTW model because it had the full PCB found on the 680, which in my mind would help with cooling. It doesn't matter, tbh

Your 650w Corsair is fine. Roll with it. The full system load in that Anand comparison above shows their system fullyl loaded in game was `320W with 670, so there you go. 650W is fine.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 12, 2013, 4:18 pm

Kluden wrote:I have that 670 FTW in my rig, so it will work, does for me at 2560x1440 at full settings all games.

I would just grab whatever the cheapest 670 is, sine they are all basically the same. I went with that FTW model because it had the full PCB found on the 680, which in my mind would help with cooling. It doesn't matter, tbh

Well there are 4GB models so that's a difference. Not a lot of games probably utilize it though at this time but they might in the future. So something to consider if you plan on not replacing the card for awhile.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 16, 2013, 7:55 pm

Just a note on the 4GB 670s... It doesn't sound like they are worth the extra money over the 2GB versions.

This evaluation has concluded that there isn't any advantage, even in the latest games, to using an ASUS GeForce GTX 670 DirectCU II 4GB video card over a 2GB equivalent for a single-display gaming. We can honestly say now that 2GB is "good enough" even in the latest games like Far Cry 3 and Hitman and Sleeping Dogs for single display gaming on a GeForce GTX 670. The fact is, the performance isn't high enough with a GTX 670 GPU to allow the advantage of 4GB of memory at 1080p or 2560x1600. When we also consider the ability to run NV Surround resolutions off of one video card, the GeForce GTX 670 GPU itself again is not powerful enough to benefit from the 4GB.

Therefore, we can conclude, if you are going to be getting a GeForce GTX 670, and only sticking to single-card, single display gaming, or even NV Surround, 2GB models are the better value.

As far as that goes I think I'm going to take a chance on AMD for my next card and get the Sapphire 7870 XT. Nearly similar performance to a 670 when overclocked, although in general probably more comparable to the 660Ti, and can be had for $245 after rebate. And that includes the new Tomb Raider and Bioshock games when they come out. I was going to wait until the next gen came out to decide but it seems we're unlikely to see those released prior to mid-Q4 at best. And this is a reasonable enough price point to gamble with. The 7950 would give better performance but it's about $45 more and comes with a coupon for Crysis 3 instead of Tomb Raider. I have zero interest in Crysis 3 and since I'm not a huge PC gamer I think the performance of the 7870 XT will be good enough for a couple years at least.

I said I'd never buy an ATI graphics card again but I think they are generally the better value when compared against Nvidia. I just hope I don't run into driver issues argh. My last ATI video card was the 9800Pro about 10 years ago and I was glad to get rid of that. From everything I've recently read the Catalyst software still sucks.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 16, 2013, 8:31 pm

There's no way in hell I'd ever buy an "Ati"/AMD card again. nVidia drivers are solid. I had way too many problems with catalyst. I'd go for an nVidia value card over AMD if you don't want to spend for the 670.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 16, 2013, 8:51 pm

19/20 releases of the CCC drivers have been about as stable as Michael J Fox' hand. Drivers have been a constant annoyance.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 16, 2013, 9:03 pm

Winnow wrote:There's no way in hell I'd ever buy an "Ati"/AMD card again. nVidia drivers are solid. I had way too many problems with catalyst. I'd go for an nVidia value card over AMD if you don't want to spend for the 670.

Too late! I'll report my findings..If it's truly terrible I'll just send it back. I'd be out return shipping costs but would be a cheap lesson learned in the grand scheme of things.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 16, 2013, 9:31 pm

I don't know if using my 42" tv as my monitor is part of the reason the drivers constantly shit the bed, but I can't imagine it is. My recommendation would be if you find a stable driver, never update them. Ever. I had one that worked a while back but haven't been able to find it again yet.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 16, 2013, 10:06 pm

always keep my video card drivers up to date. ATI system has been super stable. Nvidia system has been mostly stable.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 16, 2013, 10:18 pm

Yeah I hardly ever see driver issues mentioned in the reviews on AMD cards so not sure what problems people are encountering. Not to say there isn't any because I definitely had them with my 9800 Pro (even if that was 10 years ago) but they surely can't be totally disastrous.

In Funk's case it's probably because you're using a Dell, dude!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 17, 2013, 12:31 am

Aslanna wrote:Yeah I hardly ever see driver issues mentioned in the reviews on AMD cards so not sure what problems people are encountering. Not to say there isn't any because I definitely had them with my 9800 Pro (even if that was 10 years ago) but they surely can't be totally disastrous.

In Funk's case it's probably because you're using a Dell, dude!

When I first got the HD 5800 (Black) the drivers were horribad, they've been pretty good for the last couple of years though.. I also ended up replacing the factory cooling with a 3 fan kit from Arctic and I think that helped some. If I had to guess, I'd suspect AMD underspeced the cooling on a lot of boards and the drivers weren't able to cope with the occasional misread bit from ram.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 17, 2013, 3:21 am

Now that 13.1 of the drivers is out, I updated to that. Seems stable so far, but we'll see after the next reboot (right after loading my desktop is the most common time for my drivers to crash).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 20, 2013, 12:35 am

Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan:

As fast as two SLI GTX 680s in a single card and quieter.

http://gizmodo.com/5985291/nvidia-titan ... unbeatable

Looks well made. Pricey but solid tech.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 20, 2013, 1:57 am

Getting blue screen errors fairly often right after I boot up. After it reboots it usually doesn't happen a second time until I shut the computer down and boot it up again. Aaaaaand it won't let me open the .dmp or .xml files it says to look at for details, I get access denied. Yay.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 20, 2013, 2:30 am

To be honest that sounds like there's something particularly broken with your windows install rather than the drivers...

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 20, 2013, 2:59 am

Yeah I've been getting that feeling. I suppose it's about time to get a second external so I can finish backing all my ill gotten media up and get a fresh install going.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 20, 2013, 2:59 am

You could check the Windows event logs too and see if there's anything in there. For that you need to go into System Properties, Startup and Recovery, and make sure 'Write an event to the system log" is checked. I'm not sure it is by default. It might be!

Can also turn on verbose or something where you can see the drivers it's loading during the boot process. I don't remember how to do that offhand though. Sometimes doing that you can see what it's trying to load when it dies although I'm not sure how far you are getting in the actual process so that might not be beneficial.

You might also try using Sleep mode instead of shutting down each night since you said it only happens once each time. Even with fast boot of times of SSD I still use Stand By all the time. About the only time I actually reboot is when Windows update makes me.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 20, 2013, 3:22 am

Yeah I've been keeping an eye on the event logs, I'm getting a lot of boot degradation warnings and errors on start up and shut down, with widely varied causes.

Good idea on sleep mode, I might give that a shot until I get things sorted out and see if it helps.

Thanks again peoples.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 24, 2013, 11:38 pm

Newest advancement in the "my computer is shitting the bed" saga - the screen just froze up on me and the video cards fan cranked up to what I assume must've been 100%. Yay.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 25, 2013, 2:30 am

The "cold-boot blue screen but ok next boot" thing makes me think you should try a new PSU first, I've seen a lot of them degrade a long time before they blow up and there's bluescreens and other issues as a consequence..