Knife Set

Recipes, Reccomendations, and Reviews
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Knife Set

Post by Siji »

Anyone have any good tips for buying a semi-decent knife set for the kitchen? (chef knife, etc) I'm not really that keen on paying $100+ for a chef knife and then another $60-80 each for a pearing knife, serrated knife, etc.. The knives I have now are extremely cheap and extremely dull for cutting in the kitchen.

Tips appreciated.
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Post by Pahreyia »

http://www.cutlery.com/t3/t11t22t36.shtml

Very very very good knives. I'd almost not hesitate to say that they'd be the last knives you'd have to buy, ever, but I have to be careful about statements like that around here.

Expensive, but worth it.
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Post by noel »

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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

If you buy them in a store, start by telling them you are starting to work in a commercial kitchen and need a few knives, then right before checkout ask for a professional discount, it will be usually anywhere from 15-30% 8)
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Spend the money and take good care of your knives, they will last you a lifetime. My favorite knife used to be my granddads and I use it almost every day.
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Post by Canoe »

I have to say that I have henckels knives, and while they are "OK" i wouldn't praise them...

They seem to dull WAY too easily... you have to sharpen everytime you use them or they are kind of like chopping wood with a butter knife.

Unfortunatlely I'm reading this thread for suggestions myself to buy a new set - so don't have any suggestions.

*all ears*
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Post by noel »

That makes me sad Canoe. I am actually about to buy a new set, and that was what I was going to pick up because I have some friends that have a set that I used when I was helping cook for a banquet, and I thought they kicked ass. They'd had them for about a year so I thought they were pretty good. I think there might be a few grades of the Henckels...
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Henckel / Zwilling have some of their lines that are clearly just an attempt to milk the brand for all it's worth. Be wary...

Mundial or Wusthof would probably be good choices, as far as I know they haven't gone to crap like Zwilling.

If your wallet allows it, get hand forged knives - they're stronger and sharper than stamped or laser cut ones. Laser cut knives have the added problem of having a microscopic serrated edge, so when they go dull you can't sharpen them yourself - you'll need to replace them.

For balance and durability, make sure to get a knife with full tang, meaning that the metal (of the knifeblade) runs all the way through the handle. Also make sure that there's a decent guard or bolster.

Finally - and I think Pherr would agree with me - never, ever, buy a set of knives that you haven't held in your hand. Size of the handle, the balance, the weight, all these things require a hands-on approach.

Edit: Pahreyia, I'd advise against ceramic blades. They may keep the edged longer until you have to sharpen them the first time but they will never again reach that first, super sharp edge. Much better to go with handmade steel knives and learning how to sharpen them yourself. A good knife will last you 30 years easy, and it becomes like an extension of you after a time if you use it a lot. Sucks having to get a new one that's weighted differently etc after 2 years because you accidentally dropped it and chipped the ceramic edge.
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Post by Arundel Pajo »

Canoe wrote:I have to say that I have henckels knives, and while they are "OK" i wouldn't praise them...

They seem to dull WAY too easily... you have to sharpen everytime you use them or they are kind of like chopping wood with a butter knife.

Unfortunatlely I'm reading this thread for suggestions myself to buy a new set - so don't have any suggestions.

*all ears*

well.... there are Henckels, and there are Henckels, if you get my drift. They have a bit of a quality and price range. There are the ones they sell at Target, and then there are the really nice ones.

Personally, I'm a Wusthof fan. Wusthof Grand Prix knives are some of the most comfortable and best weighted knives I've found for my particular grip.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

OK truth about knives from a professional's standpoint. I have around $1000 in knives, but what do I actually use.

Paring Knife, Wusthoff 14 bucks
Offset serated knife 8" with a plastic white handle (weeeee) 12 bucks
Small triangular (sandwich) serrated with Cheap Wood Handle 9 bucks
Heinkel 12" chef's knife (Excaliber!) 165 bucks
10" Scimitar, cheap plastic handle and thin thin blade 25 bucks

That's really it, is there any reason to use a 12" french, no, other then the fact that they aren't made for US distribution and people's jaws drop when they see the damn thing, a 8" Chef's knife would work fine and cost half that, the Scim is for fish fileting ONLY. Both serrateds for varios jobs and the paring knife for small shit (cleaning artichokes for example). You could get yourself every knife you need (I doubt you'll be butchering 30# halibut H&G's [headed and gutted] so you could skip that) and only get one serated, spending about 100 bucks and be set for any task. Unless it's chopping, professional kitchen work is almost entirely done with a small serrated blade now, they stay sharp as fuck and are easy to wield. But I have to say, I also like pulling out my knife kit and seeing all those sharp assed blades staring at me.
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Post by Arborealus »

Damn Pherr a 12" Chefs?! lol...:)...

Yeah far and away the most useful knife is a really good paring knife (buy two) followed by an 9"chef's and then offset serrated...Look for good forged (> stamped) high carbon stainless with 3-riveted (full tang) composite/polypropelene/teflon handles...Then a 6 inch sandwich...

I also have always used a 7 1/2 inch Rapala Filet knife damn thing is a pain to sharpen but man it holds an edge and is great for fileting and boning...

Might want to look into a decent ceramic sharpener and a steel to turn and defur the edges and a teflon cutting board...

And keep your current knives for utility...so you won't feel compelled to used your good knives on anything except food...:)

While I say forged > stamped, I am sure my serrated and paring knives are stamped and they work fine...and have for a long while.

I would say you can probably get the individual knives on ebay for less than $200 total these days...
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Post by Arborealus »

Aranuil wrote:That makes me sad Canoe. I am actually about to buy a new set, and that was what I was going to pick up because I have some friends that have a set that I used when I was helping cook for a banquet, and I thought they kicked ass. They'd had them for about a year so I thought they were pretty good. I think there might be a few grades of the Henckels...
The Henckels Pro S knives are still very nice...Henckels does allow it's name to be used on stamped though...If you get the Solingen Forged, full tang, composite/polypro/teflon 3 riveted handles you will still <3 them...I wouldn't recommend the Brazilian mfg stamped knives offhand, though they might be acceptable...

I do however hate Henckels Paring knives...they just don't suit my hands for some reason...

I'd say a set like this would suit most needs and last for bloody ever...And I really do recommend a knife block...I loathe fiddling about in a drawer looking for the right knife plus the wood will quickly absorb any drops of water you might miss with the towel...
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Post by Arundel Pajo »

I second that on the wood block...

Not to mention that just tossing your knives into a drawer is a good way to ding up the edge of your blade. Wood is softer and will let you hold a very even edge for a longer time.

Also, in regarding keeping your regular knives: If your current knives are just too tired, then I'd get a good, cheap chef's knife in addition to whatever nice knives you wind up buying. Look for something heavy, with a stiff blade, that feels good in the hand. Make this your "all purpose, I don't give a shit about it" knife. I have two of these in addition to my regular knives - I found the Michael Graves chef knives at Target to be more than suitable for the purpose. These two knives just live in the drawer, slice open bags and things, deal with harder, more stubborn items, and can still pull double duty for a julienne when I need them to.
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Post by Siji »

Thanks for the tips and info.. I believe I'm gonna head out shortly and pick up some Wusthof's.

Now to find/start a sushi thread here.. :)
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Post by Tenuvil »

I bought a 10 piece set of Wusthof Grand Prix knives at Sam's Club for $99 last year. Best knives I've ever owned. The only other knife I have bought since then is a 10" bread knife, bought a Henckels Professional.
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Post by Arborealus »

Siji wrote:Thanks for the tips and info.. I believe I'm gonna head out shortly and pick up some Wusthof's.

Now to find/start a sushi thread here.. :)
Ohhh Sushi has it's own set of knives!...

The ones everyone recommended will work fine though...:)
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Post by noel »

Oddly enough, I was in Costco on Sunday, and I saw this:
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For the low price of 150ish. I picked it up. Going to do some cooking with them this week, and looking forward to it. :)
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Thread necroing!

My aunt and uncle gave me this set for Christmas and I haven't gotten around to properly using until now, but damn. I love it. The handles fit my long fingers perfectly, the balance is great and the knives are fucking INSAAAAAAAAANEly sharp.
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Post by Arborealus »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:Thread necroing!

My aunt and uncle gave me this set for Christmas and I haven't gotten around to properly using until now, but damn. I love it. The handles fit my long fingers perfectly, the balance is great and the knives are fucking INSAAAAAAAAANEly sharp.
Nice! I find the ergonomic handles in my little hands aren't...
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Post by noel »

The 5 stars are so, so, so, so nice.

I envy you sir!
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Post by Burke »

If you are still shopping around, give R.H. Forschner a try.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

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Post by Truant »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:Thread necroing!

My aunt and uncle gave me this set for Christmas and I haven't gotten around to properly using until now, but damn. I love it. The handles fit my long fingers perfectly, the balance is great and the knives are fucking INSAAAAAAAAANEly sharp.

Ohhh I really like that sir!
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Post by Kluden »

Damn Necro'd post!

Yeah, the 5 stars are nice, but don't work with my hands for some reason :) Too much prOn...or something
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Post by Akanae »

Pherr the Dorf wrote:http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=6859

Everyone should own one
Is that good for chopping chocolate squares up (Im just asking because it says bread knife)? I think thats probably the one thing I always wish I had an offset knife handle for.
Also I assume no special maintenance needs for the price its at :-)
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Post by Lalanae »

I second Henckels. They have GREAT customer service too. About a year after we bought a set, I dropped one of the knives and the blade broke in half. It was a freakish thing (it fell just the right way on our ceramic tile), so I'm not saying their product is shoddy.

Anyway, Eric called the company and they asked us to mail the knife to them and they would review it for replacement. No receipt or anything. They sent us not only a replacement knife, but an extra different knife as well! It was one we didn't have already, so I was pleased. as. punch.

That kind of customer service creates dedicated customers. I'll never buy anything else and I always pass my little story along.
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Post by Xyphir »

I have a Wusthof Grand Prix chef knife, which is fantastic. It has a perfectly balanced weight and it feels great in my hand. Although it's a tremendous knife, I don't feel like it holds an edge very well and very often resort to using my Chicago Cutlery chef's knife more often. It's lighter, with about half the weight, and I've had it much longer. The edge holds longer, and it's actually more comfortable to hold. I also cost about 1/5 as much.

I prefer using a magnetic knife rack since wood blocks can become bacteria infested. I'm a bit of a germ-a-phobe.
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Post by Kluden »

I hear the magnets make the metal atoms align, which then fuck with their ability to hold an edge...

take it to a professional sharpener, have them do it, then use the steel. It will hold that edge.
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Post by Arborealus »

Bah professional sharpener...Learn to do it yourself with stones and a strop or paper wheel...:)...

Then buy one of these...The third wheel on this is a stropping wheel which turns the edge like money...Don't over grind on the first two wheels I usually only use the first wheel if I have a lot of burring...Smooth passes with no pressure (just the weight of the knife)...Too much pressure overheats the blade blowing the temper and grinds a swale in the blade...uniform pressure down the length of the blade is the rule...(addendum: Actually Chef's Choice has a model 130 now which may be a better choice for specialty blades sushi knives and the like)...And of course they make some very nice commercial kitchen sharpeners)

I use one of these when I am watching a movie and want to hand sharpen a blade...and it has a nice lil diamond rat-tail for serrations

This guy has a very thorough web site on sharpening and a really good book.

I don't use ceramic knives but if you do then be sure and use the chef's choice diamond sharpener...steel won't sharpen ceramic...

Oh and the electric sharpeners will scuff the sides of the blade on occasion so don't use it on fancy collectible knives that you want to keep mirror polish on the sides of (i don't own any), use hand stones for those...

All my neighbours bring their blades to me for re-edging...:)...I find it a very relaxing meditative way to spend evening hours...:)...
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Post by pyrella »

Last year I picked up this set:

http://www.cutco.com/products/product.j ... Group=1818


Nearly a grand for the set....but goddamn, I, and anyone else who has picked these up loves them.

Loves my Cutco.
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Post by Arborealus »

And just for reference...A good set of stones and leather strop is the most relaxing way to sharpen...
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Post by Canoe »

I have one of those Chef's Choice sharpeners and love it. Really reduces the time needed to sharpen correctly, and does a really nice job.
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Post by Xyphir »

Kluden wrote:I hear the magnets make the metal atoms align, which then fuck with their ability to hold an edge...
I cannot find anything to support that claim. Anyone know if this is fact?
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Post by pyrella »

Another thing I picked up while researching my knife purchase, and hopefully convey correctly:


"Professional" Knives, actually are relatively soft metal, and need to be sharpened 2-3 times in the course of a shift - most Shuns, Wusthof, etc. They are meant to be this way specfically since the chef will know how, and be able to keep the insane edge.


Then there are your "Home" Knives, which also come with insanely sharp edges, but are a 'harder' metal, and don't dull as easily, but are much harder to resharpen yourself.


Alton brown has a great how to, with the standard AB explanation behind 'why and how', of sharpening knives.



http://www.altonbrown.com/shun/shun_flv_sm.html
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Post by Kluden »

yeah, completely speaking from the buttocks on that one...

I have just "heard" a few chefs I know refer to them as bad on the blades material in that sense.

I have yet to find any empirical data on the subject.

The only thing I can think of that would "disprove" this would be the shape the alloys take once hardened into a blade. Something about crystalline structures of the alloys or molecular structures would prove/disprove this. If the alloys form a molecular structure to form the blade, then yes, the magnets would have an ill effect on the blade. If the blades alloys form a crystalline type structure, then magnets would NOT affect the blade.

Well, other than scuff the side I guess, unless your magnets are covered in a nice, soft material.

Edit: You know, another thought would be that if Wusthof and the like SELL magnetic knife strips, its fairly safe to say it won't do damage to the blade. I doubt there would be so many magnetic knife holders for sale (in demand) if all they did was damage the very expensive product.
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Post by Arborealus »

I can't imagine how magnets would significantly alter the blade. Once the metal is tempered there won't be any change in the structure of the blade unless you blow the temper by heating it to red heat or repeatedly hammering it.

I just use wood blocks because I don't want strips of knife coated magnets hanging on my kitchen wall. The wood will absorb the odd drop of water on the blade but *shrug* Clean 'em and dry 'em after use and store 'em how ya like...cept loose in a drawer where the edge bangs into tons of stuff.

Oh and always keep them 1/3 way up inside a pyramid for maximum sharpness... :lol:
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Post by laneela »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:My aunt and uncle gave me this set for Christmas and I haven't gotten around to properly using until now, but damn. I love it. The handles fit my long fingers perfectly, the balance is great and the knives are fucking INSAAAAAAAAANEly sharp.
Ooooooh, nice!



Tell me more about these long fingers.
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Post by Al »

pyrella wrote:Last year I picked up this set:

http://www.cutco.com/products/product.j ... Group=1818


Nearly a grand for the set....but goddamn, I, and anyone else who has picked these up loves them.

Loves my Cutco.
I worked at Cutco Cutlery for 3 years. I have that same set, and I agree. While the asthetic quality has gone down since the new management took over in the 90s, the knives are still the best I have seen. Anything with the DD edge will keep it's edge for years and years. My parents got a set as a wedding gift in 1976, they were still in excellent condition in 2002 when I got them refurbished, and my mom cooks at least one meal a day.
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Re: Knife Set

Post by Aslanna »

Double thread necroization! Most of the links in this thread no longer seem to work. But I'm guessing knife technology probably hasn't changed much in 4-7 years
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Re: Knife Set

Post by pyrella »

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Re: Knife Set

Post by Aslanna »

Thanks! Those seem a bit out of my desired range if that's around $1000. I'll probably go with a 8 piece Wusthof Classic (maybe Ikon) set and then add to it as needed. Something like this perhaps. Seems like a decent price. Still researching!
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Re: Knife Set

Post by Fairweather Pure »

This is what I bought my wife a couple of years ago. It does the trick. The knives have done really well with moderate to heavy usage.

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Re: Knife Set

Post by Canelek »

That is pretty damn awesome!
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Re: Knife Set

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Fairweather's personal view on home design and decoration requires at least 1 thing in each room make people want to say "That's pretty damn awesome!". Well, that and no knick knacks :)
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Re: Knife Set

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Aslanna wrote:Thanks! Those seem a bit out of my desired range if that's around $1000. I'll probably go with a 8 piece Wusthof Classic (maybe Ikon) set and then add to it as needed. Something like this perhaps. Seems like a decent price. Still researching!
I admit it, I have a knife fetish. I've probably spent $1000 on knives over the past three years. How many do I use? 4. Okay, maybe 5 or 6. And I could get away with 3.

Chef's knife, 10" blade. This one was expensive but worth it TO ME, it's my workhorse (one of these).
Paring knife. I use this one constantly. It's easy to sharpen and if it gets fucked up, it's $10 so replacing it isn't an issue. I also have a $100 paring knife that I never use.
Offset serrated knife - breadknife, frozen shit... I have something similar to this

I also use a boning knife fairly regularly and while I have a fancy schmancy honesuki that cost me more than I want to admit, I use a fibrox handled butcher's boning knife that cost $20, can be honed to razor sharpness and looks like shit. Because. It. Works. Unless you do a lot of fabricating meats you won't need this. Nor will you need a fileting knife unless you get a lot of whole smoked salmon in.

And you know what, I am realizing how much this is just a fetish. I could do just as good a job with the Victorinox fibrox handled knives (they're actually really good, and if you know how to use a steel, they'll stay sharp for a long time) as with my ebony and cocobolo-handled japanese 12839 layered superfancy carbon steel knives.

So unless you:
a) need your knives to be fancy-looking as well as functional
b) hate fibrox handles
c) like the weight of solid german steel or have a Winnow-esque hardon for things japanese
d) don't feel complete without a 10-piece battery of cutlery on your kitchen counter

there's really no need to buy more than those 3. Hell, buy 4 of the paring knives so you have backups. That should run you around $60, less if you shop around (Restaurant Supply Store, pretend you know what you're doing and ask for professional discount). Spend the rest of the money on something you really do need, like an icecream maker. A sous-vide setup. An offset smoker for the backyard to make your own bacon in. Beer. An extra chest freezer for your dead hookers. More beer.

edit the 9th: Oh, and here's something you could use that extra money for if you were so inclined, one of these: http://benchcrafted.com/Magblok.html
IT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT; SOMETHING IS WRONG
I'M LIKE THE UNCLE WHO HUGGED YOU A LITTLE TOO LONG
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