Can't Stand it Anymore - Brett Favre

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » February 2, 2007, 6:08 pm

i am and im not. he had a good season. Aaron Rodgers?? um no.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » February 2, 2007, 6:51 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16947168/page/2/

This guy either is Winnow or just agrees with him.
My only complaint about this article is about this "injury-riddled Favre". Obviously because he missed SOOOOOOOO many games.

A quarterback who is 37 and who is entering his 17th NFL season needs to examine the facts objectively before committing to more football. Leading a team to the Super Bowl at the age of 37 after playing in 16 previous campaigns is not an impossible dream, but it may indeed be for an injury-riddled Favre and a Packers team that is probably at least two years away from contending in the NFC.

A lot of quarterbacks have played into their twilight years (of their football careers, that is), but most have done so in a backup role. Favre has no expectations of competing for the starting job with Aaron Rodgers. He expects to be handed the No. 1 QB role. He knows that fans of the Packers will be behind him for the most part, and that any suggestion of shoving him aside or shoving him out would be met with outrage from those who think it would be blasphemy to insult their gridiron demigod.

Favre knows this, which is why his decision smacks a little of selfishness. If the Pack has hopes of returning to the Super Bowl, it would have to do so in one of two ways: 1) Either with a terrific team on both sides of the ball that could compensate for the shortcomings of an aging, broken-down signal-caller, or 2) rebuild for the long term with young players, including Rodgers or someone else at quarterback.

This scenario for 2007, with Favre coming back for another go, fits neither category.

If the Packers’ honchos had any guts, they would sit down with Favre and tell him that, as much as they love him and appreciate his efforts, it’s time to move on. Instead, the team issued a statement straight out of a PR class from general manager Ted Thompson: “The Packers are excited by his decision and look forward to a successful 2007 campaign.” That was probably chosen over the more candid, “Why doesn’t he just &%$#@!! retire already!?”

One of the saddest spectacles in sports is a once-great hero who doesn’t know when to quit. A close second on the list is a team that is so cowed by public sentiment and emotion that it’s afraid to make a tough decision that is in the best interests of the franchise.

Brett Favre didn’t just decide to return to start at quarterback for the Green Bay Packers in 2007. He decided to do so for as long as he damn well pleases. And that’s too bad for everyone involved.

Michael Ventre writes regularly for MSNBC.com and is a freelance writer based in Los Angeles.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » February 2, 2007, 9:53 pm

Cartalas wrote: If I was a Packer Fan id be pissed

I'm a Packers fan and I am happy.

Winnow wrote: Christ....will it ever end!?

It will end when you stop blowing the entire Suns team at once.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 2, 2007, 10:08 pm

Kelshara wrote:
Winnow wrote: Christ....will it ever end!?
It will end when you stop blowing the entire Suns team at once.

It should have stopped then. There's no way I'm blowing Marcus Banks.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 4, 2008, 12:38 pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/f ... ml?cnn=yes

hallelujah!

FOX Sports first reported Tuesday that the Green Bay Packers quarterback informed the team in the last few days. ESPN.com said that according to Favre's agent the quarterback told coach Mike McCarthy of his decision.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 4, 2008, 12:43 pm

Winnow wrote:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/f ... ml?cnn=yes

hallelujah!

FOX Sports first reported Tuesday that the Green Bay Packers quarterback informed the team in the last few days. ESPN.com said that according to Favre's agent the quarterback told coach Mike McCarthy of his decision.

lol, could you at least stop jerking off long enough to post WHAT he told them?

GREEN BAY, Wis. (AP) -- Brett Favre has decided to retire from the NFL after 17 seasons.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 4, 2008, 12:49 pm

He was tired of playing and his wife and family had some influence on it. It was not due to Randy Moss.

I found out by watching ESPN First Take (stop reading now miir) during the first and ten segment. Skip and Jay were talking about how he was leaving because the Pack didn't sign Moss. Brett Favre saw this and called up Chris Mortensen immediately and before they were done talking about it, they interrupted with Bretts response.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 4, 2008, 1:10 pm

http://www.packers.com/breaking_news/

It had to happen but it is still sad to see. I am kind of excited for Aaron Rogers though. First pick in the 2008 Fantasy Draft!

STATEMENT FROM PACKERS GENERAL MANAGER TED THOMPSON:

Brett Favre has informed us of his intention to retire from the Green Bay Packers and the NFL. He has had one of the greatest careers in the history of the National Football League, and he is able to walk away from the game on his own terms - not many players are able to do that.

The Packers owe him a tremendous debt of gratitude. He has given Packers fans 16 years of wonderful memories, a Super Bowl championship among them, that will live on forever. Brett's many accomplishments on the field are legendary. He leaves the game holding virtually every career passing record, plus his consecutive starts streak, which may never be duplicated.

The uniqueness of Brett Favre - his personality, charisma and love of the game - undoubtedly will leave him as one of the enduring figures in NFL history.

Details of Brett Favre's availability to discuss his decision are still to be determined, and will be announced once set.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » March 4, 2008, 2:10 pm

Helluva career. However, I will be happy that that fucking twit Kornheiser will no longer gush over Farve's wife duing MNF...

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 4, 2008, 2:15 pm

Canelek wrote:Helluva career. However, I will be happy that that fucking twit Kornheiser will no longer gush over Farve's wife duing MNF...

I would be happier if Kornheiser were no longer announcing at all!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » March 4, 2008, 2:22 pm

Just replace him with a sock puppet.... and I'd like to buy a "r".

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » March 4, 2008, 6:06 pm

Its cool that Favre is going out on a positive but I think fans will miss his personality, as someone you could visibly see having fun out there. His wife is an attractive lady, I can't really blame a little troll like Kornheiser for slobbering all over her, but do you guys honestly watch Monday Night Football with the sound on? I don't mind Aikman or Phil Simms (he sounds like Canelek's cousin Opie but he knows his shit) but I turn off the sound on NFL coverage most of the time because the announcers kill me. I like the pre/post game panels but most NFL announcers make me want to turn the TV off.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 6, 2008, 6:51 pm

I still believe that Favre was forced out. The packers got kind of lucky last year. Their schedule wasn't that hard and Favre really carried the offense a lot till the running game got going. The packers management has really done nothing to show that they wanted to win now. Their drafts have been pretty shitty and when good free agents have been available (like Moss) they have not even tried to sign them. They are something like $30 million under the cap right now. I know in Moss's case, Favre offered to re-structure his own contract to pay for Moss's contract. Two or three years of not doing anything to win now just isn't respectful to a guy that has been your team for so many years. I don't believe in totally mortgaging your future but the Packers aren't even trying to sign veteran players. Sadly, I don't really think Aaron Rodgers will be that good. Packer fans are back to the crappy days again of Lindy Infante and Majkowski.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 7, 2008, 2:00 pm

I disagree.

While I am pretty sure we won't have a year like last year I can see us going 10-6 this year. Even against some tough teams. I like what Ted Thompson has done and I think we will pick up a veteren QB as a backup in free agency. I may be a "glass is half full" kinda guy on this but I like our chances this year.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » March 17, 2008, 8:42 pm

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pa ... gave_favre

"We know you loved Brett Favre, but he wasn't happy here. He couldn't stay here," Packers general manager Ted Thompson told hundreds of quiet but tear-streaked Packer fans assembled at the televised Lambeau Field press conference. "And he loved you, too—he loved you very much indeed—but he needed to go someplace where he could run and jump and throw his favorite football around. And he couldn't do that here anymore."

"So we took Brett out behind the Don Hutson practice facility last night, and we… Coach McCarthy and I, we… We gave him one last hug, and we said goodbye to him, and Brett went away forever," Thompson said, his voice breaking several times. "Those loud banging noises you heard were probably the truck backfiring. He went to the farm in a truck, you know."

"Don't be sad," Packer head coach Mike McCarthy told fans, many of whom began crying audibly, shaking their heads, or turning away at the news. "You should be happy for Brett. He is in a much better place now. He has many of your other favorite Packers, really great Packers like Reggie White and Ray Nitschke and Max McGee, to keep him company. And he even has a coach—Vince Lombardi is on that farm, too."

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 29, 2008, 12:24 am

I'm getting a lot of satisfaction seeing Favre implode.

Are the Green Bay fans pissed at him yet Bubba? I'd like to see him totally ruin his legacy if possible.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » July 29, 2008, 9:29 am

There are still a few Favre fanatics out there. They march on Lambeau every Sunday shouting to bring him back. At the stock holders meeting there were a lot less supporters of Favre. From what I hear from the people around me, we all pretty much agree to just trade him already and get it over with. Every news channel here has a ticker going on days since his retirement, days since the "itch", and days to training camp (which started yesterday).

Personally I'd like to see him traded. I predict this will be the first season that he gets hurt and is out of the game for a substantial amount of time. The Madden Curse will be fullfilled!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » July 29, 2008, 10:49 am

wow....the real question here is which magic is stronger...the Madden curse or the Anti-Winnow sports theory? I think we need a poll!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 29, 2008, 2:16 pm

I agree. A poll may solve this.

As far as Farve, well, I am tired of hearing about him.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » July 30, 2008, 10:17 am

Well he filed for reinstatement yesterday by faxing in his paperwork. The commish will rubberstamp the approval today and then the Packers have 24 hours to either release him or add him to the roster. Once added to the roster though I think he will be traded tout suite.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » July 30, 2008, 10:43 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:wow....the real question here is which magic is stronger...the Madden curse or the Anti-Winnow sports theory? I think we need a poll!

There is more data to support Anti-Winnow sports theory being stronger, but that's most likely due to Madden only cursing one team a year, whereas Winnow curses many more teams each year by predicting they win.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 31, 2008, 11:47 am

I think it would be funny if Arizona signed Favre for this season.... oh wait, does Arizona even have an NFL team?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 31, 2008, 12:52 pm

Not sure, but they have a fantastic stadium.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 31, 2008, 12:54 pm

Leinart's looking good (staying away from the parties) in training and Warner has been sharp. Arizona is set for QBs!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 31, 2008, 2:31 pm

I saw on Sports Center Green Bay is offering Favre $20 million to stay retired.

Life is real good when you get paid not to work.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 31, 2008, 2:33 pm

He is so a Viking this season...or a Bears.

I'd take the 20 mil.....

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » July 31, 2008, 2:45 pm

i also saw on sportscenter that favre is going to boston for manny ramirez

STRAIGHT UP!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » July 31, 2008, 2:57 pm

Sweet. but I don't think Boston deserves a player like Favre.

yeah that $20 million bribe really makes me proud to be a Packer Fan these days.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 31, 2008, 6:01 pm

Want to really tarnish Farve? Send him to the Raiders.

Also, Wisconsin is now best known for potatoes, so plan headgear accordingly.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 5, 2008, 1:32 pm

yeah my college (UW of Stevens Point) has a Spud Bowl every year where they go crazy with the potatos. that includes potato beer. Kind of strange. When you think of potato you think of Idaho, and for dairy you think of Wisconsin but now things have changed somewhat.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 6, 2008, 10:01 am

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/f ... ml?cnn=yes

...A trade could be coming next, with Tampa Bay re-emerging as a potential destination after seemingly being eliminated from consideration in recent weeks.

Packers officials have believed throughout the past month that Favre's preference is to play for the Minnesota Vikings, but Favre could reconsider a trade to Tampa Bay -- or elsewhere -- if Green Bay holds firm in its commitment not to trade him to a division rival. The Green Bay Press-Gazette reported on its Web site Tuesday night that Favre was willing to play for the Buccaneers...

If the Bucs get Brett Favre, they will win the Super Bowl.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » August 7, 2008, 12:55 am

ESPN is saying he went to the Jets, I doubt he makes the playoffs in however long he is there.

I dont think TB would win the SB with Favre anyways, he isnt going to be nearly as good as last season when he was in great shape.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » August 7, 2008, 1:29 am

Now I have two reasons to cheer against the Jets: Bill Callahan and Bret Farve.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 7, 2008, 3:15 am

I predict Favre will have his best year yet as a QB, break the Madden Curse and win the Superbowl.*

*no charge for that prediction Patriot fans.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » August 7, 2008, 8:02 am

sweet, I have Jets tickets

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 7, 2008, 9:46 am

Here are details as far as I know them.

If Favre takes 50 percent of total snaps with the Jets in 2008, the fourth-rounder becomes a third-round pick. If he gets 70 percent of the snaps and the Jets make the playoffs, it becomes a second-round pick; and if he gets 80 percent of snaps and the Jets make the Super Bowl, it becomes a first-round pick.

I'm just really happy that we don't play him this year. I fear that the Madden curse will roar and Favre goes down in pre season.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 7, 2008, 12:15 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:Here are details as far as I know them.
If Favre takes 50 percent of total snaps with the Jets in 2008, the fourth-rounder becomes a third-round pick. If he gets 70 percent of the snaps and the Jets make the playoffs, it becomes a second-round pick; and if he gets 80 percent of snaps and the Jets make the Super Bowl, it becomes a first-round pick.
I'm just really happy that we don't play him this year. I fear that the Madden curse will roar and Favre goes down in pre season.

He's going to the Jets.

I think the Madden curse is roaring just fine.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 7, 2008, 12:57 pm

Lol Jets.

Don't the Jets have to pay GB a few top draft picks if they turn around and sell Farve to MN?

Either way, Farve would not be able to get Tampa nor NY to the playoffs. Neither team has near the talent to surround him.

Shit, man...not even P Manning would get the Jets to 10 wins.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 7, 2008, 2:50 pm

The Bucs made the playoffs last year with a senior citizen behind center for most of the season!

Animale · Post by **Animale** » August 7, 2008, 3:54 pm

The folks at football outsiders don't love this trade for the Jets.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2008/0 ... bles/6430/

Here's the pertinent quote.

Aaron Schatz: I just ran the numbers, and all did was improve their mean expected wins from 7.2 to 7.6. The question is how much you assume Favre had to do with the Packers offense as opposed to the other 10 guys… I can’t just go and change all the DVOA ratings that I use in the projection system to match the 2007 Packers instead of the 2007 Jets, especially if you remember that the 2006 Jets had a better passing DVOA than the 2006 Packers did. If you’ve read the book, you know that our projection system already expected the Jets to rebound on offense.

Bill Barnwell: As we’ve discussed previously, the problem with the Jets last year wasn’t their quarterback. It was an offensive line that leaked pass rushers, a defensive line unable to stop the run, and a group of linebackers who didn’t fit the defense they played for. Will Favre be an upgrade on Pennington or Clemens? Sure. Will it be enough to make a huge difference, justify his salary and the displacement of another large salary, and the media swell that follows? No. Brett Favre can’t stop offensive linemen from setting up shop three yards in front of the line of scrimmage, he can’t get to Chad Henne, and unless he’s really been working on his jumping ability, he can’t stop Randy Moss. And that’s what the Jets need. Getting Favre isn’t going to hurt them, but it’s not a magic tonic by any means.

...

The scheme issue is the biggest thing for me when it comes to projecting Favre’s performance. Favre’s moving into a brand new scheme for the first time, really, in two decades. Brian Schottenheimer has no connection with Favre in his past.

Of course, the flip side is also true. The Jets system as installed up to this point, I’m sure, is going to be built around protecting the weaknesses of their quarterbacks, whoever they are. Do they blow out the system to allow Favre to do more? If so, then 11 guys have to learn a new scheme, not just Favre and Faneca.

Mike Tanier: The scheme is the thing here. It is August 7th. The terminology is different. The basis of the scheme is different, than anything he has ever done. Can he really have 50 percent of the offense ingested by the season opener? While at the same time practicing with a team for the first time since January, getting up to speed? While handling LOTS of media? And when did Favre become known as the guy who succeeds because he logs hours in the film room and studies the playbook?

Basically they don't think he'll be able to pick up the new scheme, and that QB wasn't really the Jets problem last year - it was offensive line, Defensive line, and linebackers. Hope Brett has good health insurance!

Animale

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 7, 2008, 6:30 pm

All he has to do is say "hike". If a receiver is open, he'll find 'em.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 21, 2008, 2:35 pm

Here you go Winnow, this guy doesn't even know you and he wants to make your head explode.

Some guy wrote:Everyone else has had their take on the Brett Favre situation, so it's only fitting that Allen Barra of the Wall Street Journal had one as well. It was a steaming pile of poo, but it was a take nonetheless. It pisses me off when jokers like this have a massive platform. This guy clearly just tries to be controversial, he's not very good at formulating arguments, but because he's in the Wall Street Journal, millions of people are reading this and thinking "Hmm, he makes a good point."

I have to break this one down, because it's such a joke.

It would have been refreshing if at least one of the worshipful media folk at the press conference had replied, "Well, actually, Brett, you're here because after months of vacillating on your retirement and putting the Packers through hell -- and forcing them into using a valuable draft pick on an extra quarterback because they didn't know whether you'd be playing for them this season -- you tried to bully them into either making you the starter or trading you to a team of your choice. Like a prima donna, you put your own desires ahead of the welfare of the organization to which you professed loyalty. Now you've been dumped on one of the NFL's most desperate franchises because no one else wanted you."

1) Unless the Packers are full of crap about drafting BPA, they would have taken Brohm anyway. Nobody forced them to draft him. They could have signed a vet to be the backup.

2) After the Packers made it clear he wasn't going to start there, why should he have put the team ahead of his own interests? (If you believe Favre) The Packers told him "Playing here isn't an option." So what's he supposed to do? Stay retired just so the Packers aren't put in an uncomfortable situation? They were looking out for their own interests, he was looking out for his.

3) Saying "no one else wanted you" is incorrect, but why worry about facts.

It would be if Brett Favre were as good as Joe Montana. Mr. Montana won four Super Bowls and was arguably the greatest quarterback in football history; Mr. Favre has won just one Super Bowl and is probably the most overrated, or at the very least overhyped, quarterback in the modern NFL.

It's nice that he provides, ya know, some data to back his assertion that Favre is the most overrated/overhyped QB. (For the record, Mike Vick had a strangehold on that title before getting put in jail.) It's also nice of him to leave out the fact that Favre has never played with a Hall of Famer on offense, while Montana had one of the best supporting casts in history. And that Montana played pre-salary cap when it was easier to keep a great team together. Not to take anything away from Montana (because he clearly was amazing and I agree that he's arguably the best of all-time), but it's insane to say "OMG Favre only won one Super Bowl so he's overrated!" Look at what he was working with for most of the last decade. It wasn't Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Brent Jones, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman and a ridiculous OL....

Let's strip the Brett-to-the-Jets deal of the illusions the media has wrapped it in. What we have is a 4-12 team that has signed a 38-year-old quarterback who, though he made something of a comeback last season, hasn't otherwise finished in the top five of the league's passers since 2001. (In 2006 he was ranked 25th; in 2005, 31st.).

A 4-12 team who signed a slew of new players in addition to the 38 year old QB and added Gholston to the defense.

Even if he hasn't finished in the top 5 of league's passers lately, that's using the ridiculous QB rating stat. He's been runner up in the MVP voting twice in that span. Not that the MVP voting is the be-all-end-all either, but I'd use that as a gauge of performance before I'd use passer rating.

From 2005 to 2007, Mr. Favre has thrown 66 touchdown passes and 62 interceptions. If any other NFL quarterback had put up those numbers, his job would be on the line; instead, the New York Jets have chosen to delay the inevitable process of breaking in a new young quarterback -- and in fact have released Chad Pennington, who, according to Kerry Byrne of the Web site Cold Hard Football Facts, is "maybe the most underrated quarterback in the NFL."

So you've got one bad year when he got off to a good start before every player on the offense got hurt (They used like 7 starting RBs that year, including Rashard freaking Lee), one great year, and one mediocre year. But based on his career as a whole, it's pretty clear which of those seasons was a complete outlier.

And if Kerry Byrne said Chad Pennington is the most underrated QB in the NFL it MUST be true! Great support for the argument there. Never mind that in the last 3 years, Pennington has 29 TD passes and 28 picks. Worse numbers than Favre's, even with that one disaster of a season that isn't likely to be repeated. But Favre's job would be in question if he was any other QB and Pennington is the most underrated in the league. Makes sense.

And the delay in breaking in a young QB assumes that the QB of the Future is on the roster. The best bet for the "QB of the Future" on the Jets would be Kellen Clemens, guy with 5 TDs and 10 INTs in his career. Yeah it was stupid to go get Brett Favre. Clearly Clemens is a budding star waiting to take them to the promised land.

But there is also considerable evidence that he is nowhere near, as his admirers claim, the greatest passer ever to play the game or that he even ranks in the top 25. Mr. Favre's trademark has always been productivity over quality. He's been remarkably durable with the daring to throw the ball more than any other passer, but he hasn't always thrown it better. He has never, for instance, led the NFL in the league's passer-rating system, which measures effectiveness with various statistics. (In comparison, Joe Montana led the league twice; Mr. Montana's successor at San Francisco, Steve Young, was first six times, and Peyton Manning three times.)

Now he's not a Top-25 QB of all-time? What the hell? I'd love to see this joker's list. If you want to make the argument that he's not Top-5, I'll listen. I'll disagree, but I'll at least listen. But not Top-25? Even Sal Paolantonio thinks that's jacked up.

And here we go with using the passer rating argument again. The NFL's passer rating system is insane. And using Peyton Manning in support of your argument might not be the best idea (I'll get to that in a minute). But as long as we're considering it to be such an important stat, let's look at a few years:

In 1995, Favre was runner up to JIM FREAKING HARBAUGH! Favre's 38 Touchdowns, 13 INTs, 4400 yards, and 63% completion percentage lost out to Harbaugh's 17 Touchdowns, 5 INTs, 2500 yards and 63% completion percentage. Clearly Harbaugh was the more effective passer.

In 1996, Favre was runner up to Steve Young. Favre's 39 TDs and 13 INTs were pretty clearly inferior to Young throwing a whopping 14 Touchdowns and 6 INTs.

In 1997, Favre finished behind Young and Chris Chandler. 35 Touchdowns, 16 Picks and another MVP were no match for 19 TDs and 6 picks, or Chandler's 20 TDs, 7 picks and 2700 yards passing. Chandler was so good that he QB'ed his team to a 7-7 record that year.

Mr. Favre has probably been excused by fans for not winning a passer-rating title because its formula is so complex most fans don't understand it. However, in the single most important passing stat, yards per attempt (YPA), he has also never led the league and finished as high as second only once (in 1995 with a 7.7 average). Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger currently leads the league in active players at over 8.1 yards per throw.

There are a lot of things that I've defended Brett Favre for, but I've never seen someone rip him for never winning a passer-rating title. I'm sure he would have put that on his list of accomplishments right next to his Super Bowl title, 3 MVPs, and his ownership of every passing record in the books.

I don't deny that YPA is an important stat, but I think he's overrating it here. Ben Roethlisberger is pretty clearly the best quarterback in the league. Except that, uh oh, over three years (before last year when he was great) he had 52 TDs and 43 Interceptions, which means his job should have been on the line according to a few paragraphs ago. Last year, Favre finished behind Matt Schaub in that stat. Yup, it's a clear-cut indicator of how good a QB is.

Also, how arrogant is the first sentence in this paragraph? Pehaps our resident genius would like to come down off his high horse for a minute to explain the system to us mere mortals (without looking it up) and then tell us how it was derived and what we should be able to take from it. Why are we subtracting 30 points from the completion percentage before multiplying by .05? Why do we subtract 3 yards off YPA? Why not 5? Or 2.8? What the hell does it even mean? Surely Mr. Barra would have no trouble explaining this to us all.

Did I miss when a passer-rating title became important? Favre had 16 Touchdowns in the first five games of 1996, more than Young had the entire season. And a better TD/INT ratio to boot. But Young was pretty clearly more efficient. That system is stupid. And only stupid people make too much out of it.

It's true that Mr. Favre holds the all-time record for TD passes (442), but what isn't as well known is that he also holds the record for most interceptions (288). Perhaps the best way of understanding Mr. Favre's effectiveness is to compare him to baseball pitcher Nolan Ryan, who holds the all-time record for strikeouts but also for walks. Everyone concedes that Mr. Ryan was a legitimate Hall of Famer, but with a lifetime winning percentage of .526, no one argues that he was the best ever or even among his own contemporaries.

It's not well known that Favre has the interception record? Favre also holds the record for most wins and has a winning percentage far greater than .526. If Barra doesn't think Favre is better than some of his contemporaries, I'd love to hear the argument. I'm sure it's just as air-tight as the one he's making here. I'd love to see the names on his list of contemporaries that are better.

We've resorted to using different sports. Amazing.

Nor, it must be admitted, has Mr. Favre been a particularly good big game performer. His career postseason is a mediocre 12-10, including an embarrassing 23-20 loss to the underdog New York Giants in the NFC conference championship this past January. On his own home field Mr. Favre was outdueled by the previously unheralded Eli Manning. In fact, as a postseason passer Mr. Favre has never approached the record of the Packers' Bart Starr, who won five NFL championships from 1961 to 1967.

Well if 12-10 is medicore, I guess we have to consider Peyton Manning's 7-7 record downright piss-poor, especially considering he's played with multiple hall of famers on offense for almost his entire career (Faulk/James plus Harrison). He's 3-7 outside of that Super Bowl year, where he was just brilliant in throwing 3 touchdowns and 7 picks. So that's another guy off the list of contemporaries better than Favre.

No career record above .500 in the playoffs is mediocre. This isn't the regular season here. To be above .500 in any single given year, you have to make it to the conference championship game if you didn't have a bye (which requires winning on the road against one of the two best teams) or make it to the Super Bowl if you did have a bye. Think about that for a minute. That's a lofty standard to have a playoff record above .500 for a single year, let alone a career.

Yes, you read that right. This guy actually just wrote that an overtime loss to the eventual Super Bowl Champions was "embarrassing". If the loss to the Giants was embarrassing, I guess Tom Brady has some mud on his face as well. And this joker better not even think of calling Romo a quality QB.

The Giants were better than everyone thought, and Favre wasn't really as bad as everyone said he was in that game. He wasn't great, but his numbers compared favorably to every other QB that played that day (even the great Tom Brady threw 3 picks in similar conditions). The difference was that the Giants and Pats had a running game and defenses that stepped up. The Packers had 28 yards on the ground and couldn't get off the field defensively. That's not going to work in January. And if Ruvell Martin catches a pass that's right in his hands for a sure TD or if Brandon Jackson doesn't run into his blocker when he had nothing but endzone in front of him, Favre's numbers look a lot better.

I'm sick of hearing about Starr's 5 titles when people are discussing Favre. Again, I don't want to take anything away from Starr, but for two of those titles he had to win ONE WHOLE PLAYOFF GAME. For two of those titles, he won two playoff games each year. Not to say he would've lost if they played more games, but you can't compare the championship-deciding format back then to what it is now. And again, you can't compare the supporting casts. Those Packers teams were hall-of-famer laden. Favre has never had a future Hall of Famer on offense.

Football historian T.J. Troup feels that Mr. Favre's place among the all-time greats is difficult to assess: "In the modern NFL, the rules favor passing over defense, so statistics alone can't tell the story. Put it this way: Favre has won three MVP awards, but except maybe in 1995, he has never really been the best and not as good as many passers from 'the dead ball era,' like Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr and Roger Staubach were in theirs."

Favre wasn't the best in 1996? Credibility? Fluuuuuuuushed. I'd love to hear who was better that year (or in 95, since that year only gets a "maybe"). Favre had 39 TDs and 13 INTs, despite losing his top receiver for the season in the 7th or 8th game and having his #2 target miss a couple games and then play with a cast on his arm the rest of the year. There were games where they started Don Beebe and Terry Mickens at WR. One-Armed Freeman/Rison/Beebe/Mickens isn't going to make anyone shudder. His left tackle was a journeyman who was plugged in mid-season. But no, he wasn't the best that year. Not even close.

I'm not going to deal with trying to compare him to some of the greats from the past, but for every advantage modern players have with the rules, I'm guessing we could come up with a lot of things that hinder the QBs. Faster defenses, more blitzing (I assume), etc.

It's also worth pointing out that Mr. Consistency here once defended Peyton Manning's playoff record (3-6 at the time) by writing the following:

Four times--in 1999 against the Tennessee Titans, 2003 against the New England Patriots, 2004 against the Patriots, and last year against the Pittsburgh Steelers--the Colts have lost in the playoffs to a team that went on to the Super Bowl. Two of those losses were by just three points. Did the Colts choke, or simply lose to better teams?

I guess it's worth pointing out, then, that half of Favre's 10 playoff losses (Dallas in 93, Dallas in 95, Denver in 97, St. Louis in 01, and the Giants in 07) have come against a team that ended up in the Super Bowl. 4 of the 10 losses have been to the eventual champion.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 21, 2008, 4:35 pm

'Some guy' has spent far too much time discussing Farve!