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masteen
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MEMBER THIS?!?

Post by masteen »

"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Post by kyoukan »

When I think of all the fucking bullshit I had to endure playing that game I almost want to yank my hair out. Everquest was still the best MMORPG ever though. The newer ones just hold your hand and treat you like a pussy until you run smack into a wall at max level. None of them even have a fifth of the lore and memorable scenarios that original EQ had.

Who to this day does not hate Ambassador DVinn? Or Seargant Slate? Who didn't go out looking for hill giants to waste at level 50. Not because there was any reason to, but out of pure spite? How many people zoned into Blackburrow for the first time and immediately ran into the stump by the entrance, fell through the fake floor, ending up at the bottom of the map, and realizing it will probably just be faster to roll a new character and get back to level 12 than it would be to try and get your shit back? I remember being in Blackburrow for the first time and asking what a train was about .00001 seconds before getting run over by one.

I still remember making the run from Qeynos to Freeport when the game was brand new; getting chased by cyclops in Karana and then getting chased by mud men in the gorge of King Xrobb and then getting chased by goblins in Runnyeye. Oh Jesus, if I die I am never going to get my body back and I will lose my greater lightstone and fine steel greatstaff and I'm a fucking human and I can't see in the fucking dark and fuck this I'm going back to Qeynos. I've never been even as remotely frightened in a video game and I expect I never will be again.

There isn't a single game on the market that can bring up those kinds of emotions.

How many gaming communities like this one are still around 8 years after 90% of the people who post here stopped playing it? I raided in WOW a lot more than I raided in EQ, but when I left that game I just said "fuck it" and havent spoken to anyone since.
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Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

I've watched that before. Gave me goosebumps, and made my stomach turn the first time I saw it. I miss EQ so much, but I don't miss the amount of time I had to put into it.
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Post by Kaldaur »

The first Kithicor run I made I didn't know I could turn up the gamma on my computer. I hugged that wall going 1 mile an hour, creeping along with a prayer. Imagine my surprise when I made it through only to get stomped by a griffin in the commonlands. I wasn't even that afraid when I got the shit kicked out of me in eighth grade by some neanderthal classmate. My black eye would go away: I may never get my corpse again!!!
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Post by Zamtuk »

My first character was an Erudite Necromancer (yeah), and my worst memory starting out was running full speed into Qeynos at level 8 to find out what faction actually meant. I actually made the first run from Qeynos to Freeport unscathed by using all the maps I printed off from Allakhazams. Then promptly died the next 20 attempts. Skeletons seeing through invis was and still is bullshit. I also remember spending an entire week at level 24 because I thought that hunting in Unrest was a smart move. To this day, I get in a blind rage thinking of all the trains I had to endure.

Dying behind zone lines. Fuck you, I made it.

Kithicor never bothered me. I kept to that left wall and ran as high up it as i could and all the way around.
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Post by Fairweather Pure »

I think another amazing thing about our little EQ community here on VV is that pretty much all of us started playing at or very near "Day 1". EQ had very few people jumping on the band wagon last in the game's life cycle.

I started as a dwarf warrior and later (around level 16?) I saw a wolf run past me. I dropped my character and started over as a druid pretty much for that reason and ended up loving the class. Lots and lots of memories in that game.
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Post by Sylvus »

The first time I ever fired up EQ and rolled a wood elf, I think I played for about 15 minutes before I fell off in Kelethin, deleted that char and re-rolled Sylvus.

Something just brought back a memory of High Hold Pass, and I think a couple mobs would spawn that had the PGT and something else (was it a weight reduction bag?) and it was just a clusterfuck of people trying to KS each other to get those drops. Was that really 12 years ago?

I can hardly remember zone names or anything anymore, but I'll always remember the desert with the Hill Giants and Lockjaw. Kiting those fucking bird guys in whichever Karana that was. The trains in Unrest and getting assraped in the face right when you zoned in. Being genuinely scared exploring Mistmoore (i think) that we'd wipe in the castle and never be able to get to our corpses. Grinding like it was my job for what seemed like an eternity to ding 60, then dying and losing it and wanting to murder a human being. Foraging for hours for the druid epic quest.

God that game was fun, until it got tedious as shit.
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Post by miir »

I can hardly remember zone names or anything anymore
I remember everything all too well... I wish I could just forget all that useless information.
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Post by masteen »

Sylvus wrote:The first time I ever fired up EQ and rolled a wood elf, I think I played for about 15 minutes before I fell off in Kelethin, deleted that char and re-rolled Sylvus.

Something just brought back a memory of High Hold Pass, and I think a couple mobs would spawn that had the PGT and something else (was it a weight reduction bag?) and it was just a clusterfuck of people trying to KS each other to get those drops. Was that really 12 years ago?

I can hardly remember zone names or anything anymore, but I'll always remember the desert with the Hill Giants and Lockjaw. Kiting those fucking bird guys in whichever Karana that was. The trains in Unrest and getting assraped in the face right when you zoned in. Being genuinely scared exploring Mistmoore (i think) that we'd wipe in the castle and never be able to get to our corpses. Grinding like it was my job for what seemed like an eternity to ding 60, then dying and losing it and wanting to murder a human being. Foraging for hours for the druid epic quest.

God that game was fun, until it got tedious as shit.
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Post by Spang »

I wanted to be a wood elf rogue. I wanted to sneak and hide and forage for food. I spent 24 levels poking mobs in the back, during which I would constantly come across people who needed help -- heals and whatnot. I couldn't help them, though. I was a greedy-ass rogue. Until I sat next to an ogre. I thought ogres were dumb and unable to cast spells, but this guy, he was casting spells. This guy was an oracle. What the hell was an oracle? A shaman he told me. I logged out and rolled an ogre shaman. No longer would I be a greedy, unobliging rogue; I would be a generous, helpful shaman. From that day forward, whenever anyone needed a heal or a buff, I was there for them.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

I remember how hard the trek to 50 was in the old days. The hell levels were always a long grind and the worst part was you could always guarantee a death knocking you back once you finally ground through one.
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Post by Winnow »

The difficulty level of this game is unmatched by todays standard MMO's (I know, UA was hardcore, and I'm sure there are some shitty korean MMOs out there that literally rape your mother if you don't perform well in the game.. that's why I said standard!)

Choose an evil race? Well then you've just eliminated 90% of the vendors in game. Choose an evil class, but a good race? Eh maybe you can sell in most of your town, but a lot of other towns will tell you to fuck off and die.

This game made me feel smaller and insignificant than any other MMO. And that was great. Few people were heroes, we were all shitheads killing spiders. Running to guards when we got in over our heads. Fighting over a +2 Dex ring off a dervish cutthroat. Yelling "CAMP CHECK!" As soon as we zoned into a new area. There were no instances, there was no fair. There was kill stealing, training, and general assholery all around. And that's what forged the community. "Bill ninja looted a Stilleto Dirk! Don't ever group with him"
I was pissed when the models were updated in EQ. My cute little 4 polygon gnome warrior became an ugly old hag. The other class avatars were all almost just as universally bad.

I remember one of the party members in an early journey from Qeynos wrote like a 10 page story about our journey. I wish I still had that.

And who the fuck these days writes a ballad about an trip to a dungeon in an MMO?

This is from a post on this board from 2002:
before Furor got his first banning
before kyoukan's estimates of Celestial Tomb's size broke the one billion mark
before leyor sucked cock
before Moss Covered Twigs
before AE groups dropped 40 mobs like nobody's business
before Haiku

there was....


The Ballad of the Fourteen Froggies

In from the tower the 14 frogs flew,
and not just them but their little dogs too,
Marbus nearly fell on the pull 'cross the land,
we knew on arrival he'd used his lay hand,
It was the only way he could have the power,
to pull to the king from distant live tower,
The party looked frightened... fretful and worried,
as if we'd too soon be dead and buried,
How can we survive this terrible crime?
The enchanter said calmly, One at a Time.

The battle was fierce and the froggies were strong,
were it not for swift Gormith we'd not have lasted long,
Kalysta's pet helped us survive,
I swear by itself it slew more than five,
Selina selected which ones to burn down,
with one mighty shot, they'd fall to the ground,
Weena's swords danced as she sang mystic lyrics,
Restoring our mana as health is by clerics,
And Marbus lept into battle like a man insane,
after healing from pulling this terrible train.

In the middle of the fight our clarity ran out,
our mana was fading, our health.. not so stout,
Near death and in panic Weena ran for the zone,
but Gormith's quick heal showed she wasn't alone,
The throne was a grave yard, the bodies defaced it,
And the corpse of the priest had that cheap little bracelet,
The battle was ending, the frogs had not won,
All that was left was a zol... and a yun.
Beaten and bleeding we finished them, then
Marbus said, "Med! I'm pulling again!"

Blinkle

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Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:I wanted to be a wood elf rogue. I wanted to sneak and hide and forage for food.
If you were still playing now and foraged rabbit meat... Would you eat it? I know I would!
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Post by Boogahz »

I always missed the fat trolls :(
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Yeah, trying to get through kithicor forest at night for the first time from riverdale was the most tense and frightening moment in a game ever. There were a lot of other things like that in EQ that won't ever be topped by any other game, MMO or otherwise.
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Post by Hesten »

Boogahz wrote:I always missed the fat trolls :(
I kept the old char models for trolls and ogres for years, because the new ones had no charm, i loved my fat troll warrior....and kept the old iksar models too, because the new ones ruined my iksar monks swimming animation, they had a graceful animation different from the rest.
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Post by Winnow »

Here's a good read about EverQuest being inducted into the Hall of Fame:
Earlier this week, at GDC Online, EverQuest was inducted into the Hall of Fame. There, up on stage, were about a dozen of the original members of the team. It's remarkable to consider how many games these developers have been a part of since their work on EQ. But in 1999, these were pioneers, scrambling to answer daily questions about what exactly the MMO genre should be. There are a lot of factors that make EverQuest worthy of being inducted to the Hall of Fame, and in this week's Tattered Notebook, we'll look at a few as well as take a larger look at the state of the industry from GDC Online.

Working as intended

After talking to the team members at the awards show, I realized that they were part of the vanguard when it came to tackling major MMO design issues. There was no well-organized, well-prepared community management team that's common in current MMO titles. There weren't many test servers or public test shards. And there was little opportunity to battle-test hardware against the influx of hundreds of thousands of players. The team had to rely on gut instinct and as much player-feedback as it could generate -- it wasn't an exact science.

Likewise, the players themselves were struggling to answer major game issues. Each night, players would run into all sorts of controversies, and each following day, they would hash out these little morality plays on server forums and in chat rooms. When the first dragon was taken down, with dozens of people participating and just a handful of items dropping, how do you dole out the loot? If five people are politely waiting their turn to kill a rare mob, and an outsider jumps in at the last minute to steal the kill, what recourse do you have? Which way should you run in order to not train players who are trying to enter a zone? Some of these questions led to design changes that are still common today.

You're in our world now

EverQuest fans joke about that slogan, but there's something to be said about the fact that EverQuest really was a world. At GDC Online, metrics and monetization dominated the discussion, but there was little talk about the notion of MMOs as being virtual worlds. It's as if the developers all lost their Bartle Bibles.

Traveling back home, even if it was just crossing the Greater Faydark newbie zone, was a real hero's journey. You went back to town, not to just deliver quest errands and run off to the next hub, but to actually go home. You wanted to take a breather from the danger all around you, visit the bank to take stock of your winnings and listen to players auction their wares. You might even decide to jump in line to do little crafting. When you heard the trumpets of the Felwithe gates, even before you saw them, they meant something, and you were happy to be home.

The original world of Norrath also felt a lot like a real world. Many MMOs today are carefully designed around a sense of fairness and have set rules designed right into the game. Loot rights, rolling for loot, auction houses and brokers... all of these things were carefully designed solutions to nagging game issues. But in EverQuest, life wasn't always fair. Sometimes, the other guy was quicker and got the loot. Sometimes, you needed to know the right words in order to get what you wanted. And sometimes, you'd get caught against a zone wall, slide off the boat, and lose your corpse forever in the ocean. Yes, it caused enormous amounts of frustration at times, but it made the successes that much more enjoyable. To be sure, it wasn't for everyone, but psychologically, knowing that you could do something that others could not was special. Everyone can kill 10 rats, but not everyone can navigate the Blackburrow tunnels at night as a blind level 1 Barbarian. Not everyone can brave danger, skirt along zone walls, and run stacks of mesh armor from Upper Guk to sell to all the Monks over in Qeynos.

The Vision™

At GDC Online, a lot of the talks revolved around metrics -- measuring player behavior and gameplay with carefully parsed numbers. But that's in stark contrast to what the team described as its initial motivation: passion. Now, I'm sure that developers today still have that passion, but I have to wonder how much of MMO game design is still driven by it and how much is driven by metrics. With their desire to design for a mass-audience of hundreds of thousands, even millions, larger studios are almost forced to play it safe.

Timesink

Having said all that, I doubt we'll ever see a game similar to EverQuest, and if we do, it probably won't reach the same level of commercial success. All of what made EverQuest special also made it very time-consuming. EQ fans love to reminisce about how the game forced you to slow down and about waiting for a boat ride or waiting for your turn at the brew barrel or waiting for your new best-friend Cleric to make his way through danger to rez your corpse. But all that waiting was a pain, and players bemoaned it from day one, so it was both a blessing and a curse.

MMOs have come a long way since EverQuest, and yet it's worth asking whether some of the original game issues that appeared early on deserve a second look. In the effort to remove some of the "bad" gameplay, like griefing, training, kill-stealing, ninja-looting, and all that waiting, some of the "good" gameplay was removed along with it. As MMO designers attempt to scrub out anti-social behavior, they sometimes unintentionally also remove the positive social behavior that is the best part of MMOs. As MMOs become more "fair," they also run the risk of becoming mundane. EverQuest certainly had its share of mistakes, but the risks it took at the time were admirable and definitely earned the game the Hall of Fame award it received.
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Post by Chidoro »

That's a pretty good article. There's always good and bad with each design decision. Good in that they pull you in more, pay more attention, be more careful, taking a chance becomes really taking a chance. Bad in that it's a lot of extra time before you get to and do what you intended to do.
Fast travel is great, makes things go quick but you never experience the panic of trying to rush to catch the boat. It's an experience whether you make it in time or not that you just don't have any longer.
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Post by masteen »

I've always wondered if a mechanic similar to keying would work to make leveling significant again, as opposed to the heavy grind mechanic of EQ. That way, instead of leveling being a race to max with everything in between being disposable content, devs could put some time and effort into these plateau areas.

Seems like SWTOR is at least trying to make the leveling experience more memorable with their storytelling, but I am not sure if the gameplay is there to keep it going at max.
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Post by Sabek »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I remember how hard the trek to 50 was in the old days. The hell levels were always a long grind and the worst part was you could always guarantee a death knocking you back once you finally ground through one.
Fuck the hybrid EXP penalty right in the ass.
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Post by Siji »

Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:I wanted to be a wood elf rogue. I wanted to sneak and hide and forage for food.
If you were still playing now and foraged rabbit meat... Would you eat it? I know I would!
I'm pretty sure I remember you refusing to kill animals with your druid back in '99..
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Post by Kaldaur »

Siji wrote:
Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:I wanted to be a wood elf rogue. I wanted to sneak and hide and forage for food.
If you were still playing now and foraged rabbit meat... Would you eat it? I know I would!
I'm pretty sure I remember you refusing to kill animals with your druid back in '99..
What a vegan.
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Post by Aslanna »

Siji wrote:
Aslanna wrote: If you were still playing now and foraged rabbit meat... Would you eat it? I know I would!
I'm pretty sure I remember you refusing to kill animals with your druid back in '99..
Unless they attacked me first. Like those rabid snakes and coyotes. Then I had no problem blowing their freakin head off.

And I had no problem chowing down on rabbit meat!
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Post by Siji »

Poor Fluffy Bunnies.
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Post by Skogen »

I remember haplessly blundering into the brownie camp in lesser faydark, and nuked into oblivion got me so fucking pissed off I broken my keyboard.
I don't think i have ever let a game get that pissed off until that moment.


needless to say, those brownies got what they had coming once I hit level 50.
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Post by Aslanna »

Poor Brownies
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Post by Hesten »

I would be lying if the level 58-60 i spend in Lfay at the brownie camp was purely for levelling.
The little bastards needed to die :). I almost lost my corpse in Lfaydark at level 8.....lalala, whats that, some nasty orc camp, better dont go near....ohhh, whats that cute brown little thing, come here little guy....LOADING, PLEASE WAIT
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Post by Skogen »

bleh
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Post by masteen »

I remember one time I led a group through one of them brownie camps. I was in woof form, and I didn't know what posessed them to attack the tombstone red brownies. :shock:
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Post by Ransure »

Those goddamn brownies... I think I took my first group to the Nybright sisters at level 5... I also remember falling off of Kelethin on day 1 with the servers lagging so bad.

EQ was a great game, but I probably wont ever play an MMO again.
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