A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

What do you think about the world?
Post Reply
User avatar
Bubba Grizz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 6121
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:52 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Bubba Grizz »

Memo: From Nick Hanauer
To: My Fellow Zillionaires


You probably don’t know me, but like you I am one of those .01%ers, a proud and unapologetic capitalist. I have founded, co-founded and funded more than 30 companies across a range of industries—from itsy-bitsy ones like the night club I started in my 20s to giant ones like Amazon.com, for which I was the first nonfamily investor. Then I founded aQuantive, an Internet advertising company that was sold to Microsoft in 2007 for $6.4 billion. In cash. My friends and I own a bank. I tell you all this to demonstrate that in many ways I’m no different from you. Like you, I have a broad perspective on business and capitalism. And also like you, I have been rewarded obscenely for my success, with a life that the other 99.99 percent of Americans can’t even imagine. Multiple homes, my own plane, etc., etc. You know what I’m talking about. In 1992, I was selling pillows made by my family’s business, Pacific Coast Feather Co., to retail stores across the country, and the Internet was a clunky novelty to which one hooked up with a loud squawk at 300 baud. But I saw pretty quickly, even back then, that many of my customers, the big department store chains, were already doomed. I knew that as soon as the Internet became fast and trustworthy enough—and that time wasn’t far off—people were going to shop online like crazy. Goodbye, Caldor. And Filene’s. And Borders. And on and on.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... z35rPPZyZR
User avatar
Kluden
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 13, 2002, 7:12 pm
Location: D.C.

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Kluden »

Read the entirety of it. Its a good op-ed piece, agree with it mostly. But prying money from old hands is an impossible task. He's "young" in the grand scheme of the super rich, so his ideals are in tact.

Its great to see new ideas and their implementation, and subsequent success, in cities like SanFran and Seattle. It debunks the arguments people have about living wage pay. But a national scale item, that's where it will always stall. Sadly.
User avatar
Spang
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4811
Joined: September 23, 2003, 10:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Tennessee

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Spang »

If workers have more money, they'll buy more shit. Workers buying more shit is good for business. This is obvious. But in the author's capitalist utopia, the wealthy maintain their power, and the workers continue to be exploited, though with a bit more respect and dignity. The exploitation of workers is what capitalism is all about, and why it must be replaced with a system whereby the workers own the means of production.
Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
User avatar
Canelek
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9380
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:23 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Canelek
Location: Portland, OR

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Canelek »

Orrrrr. Hang out in the middle. Learn something new and stop being a homeless person. Homeless people should be converted to wireless hotspots.
en kærlighed småkager
User avatar
Aabidano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4861
Joined: July 19, 2002, 2:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Florida

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Aabidano »

Help!, help! I'm being repressed?!
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27525
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Winnow »

Canelek wrote:Homeless people should be converted to wireless hotspots.
Best Idea I've heard in awhile! I'd be more inclined to throw chance in their direction if I saw a homeless person wearing a hat with antennas sticking out of the top. Of course, I'd test my connection before throwing the coins to be sure they were legit.

Any true activist would join the Peace Corp and travel to a country without internet* for many years to help save world.




*note: location with no internet is very important!
User avatar
Funkmasterr
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9005
Joined: July 7, 2002, 9:12 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Dandelo19
PSN ID: ToPsHoTTa471

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Funkmasterr »

I do find it amusing that he was in the military (unless I'm thinking of someone else), and now bitches about every facet of this society, all while following a ridiculous diet that is only possible for him to follow because of where he lives.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27525
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Winnow »

When it comes to being an "activist", there are people like Spang and then there are people like Arron Swartz. One is cluelss. One is (was) absolutely brilliant.

I just finished watching The Internet's Own Boy: The Story of Aaron Swartz. I'd encourage Spang and everyone else to watch it whenever you get a chance. (I pirated it!) I don't think Arron Swartz would have minded. From his early work on RSS and Reddit to this huge part in keeping SOPA from passing is very inspirational. The world lost a social/ideological genius due to outdated laws and restricted access to public documents. He was 13 when he was helping write creative commons and also RSS.

He didn't need to become a martyr to affect change but unfortunately that's what happened.

It's possible for some people to make a difference and positively change the corruption in politics despite "wannabe" activists that do more harm than good.
User avatar
Spang
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4811
Joined: September 23, 2003, 10:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Tennessee

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Spang »

Attempting to have a debate with you people is not activism. I am not an activist.
Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
User avatar
Spang
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4811
Joined: September 23, 2003, 10:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Tennessee

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Spang »

Funkmasterr wrote:I do find it amusing that he was in the military (unless I'm thinking of someone else), and now bitches about every facet of this society, all while following a ridiculous diet that is only possible for him to follow because of where he lives.
It is true that I do not live in a food desert. It's also true that I served in the military, but what difference does that make?
Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
User avatar
Aabidano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4861
Joined: July 19, 2002, 2:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Florida

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Aabidano »

Spang wrote:Attempting to have a debate with you people is not activism. I am not an activist.
Worse actually, you behave like an uninformed zealot.

A debate consists of more than repeated rote repetition of someone else's words?

Communism is a great theory but you can't separate it from the people implementing it or living under it.

People don't scale well.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
User avatar
Kluden
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 13, 2002, 7:12 pm
Location: D.C.

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Kluden »

Land of the Free doesn't work with any form of altruistic behavior. Its impossible to stifle what the US is. Communism, Socialism, they don't work for the majority of us. How many of us watch Star Trek, and think "yeah right" with that altruistic approach to life/work.

I would argue, that exploitation of workers is all communism is about. China has the 1 percenters too...and then everyone else.
User avatar
Bubba Grizz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 6121
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:52 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Bubba Grizz »

I'd like to more about this, "exploitation of the workers" bit. It is kind of a blanket statement which doesn't seem fair overall. I have a job and therefore I am a worker. I feel like I am being paid a fair wage for the work that I do. (naturally I'd always love to have more but who doesn't) I don't feel exploited. My bosses have different skill sets than I do but they are workers and it appears like they are fine with what they are making. Who is exploiting and who is being exploited?

Careful now, I'm arguing about that blanket statement and not about exploitation, of which I am sure happens.
User avatar
Kluden
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 13, 2002, 7:12 pm
Location: D.C.

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Kluden »

I'm just using the term thrown around most by anti-capitalism folk. But I would think that the most common answer to someone identifying exploitation in the capitalistic society, is the worker who does his job, gets paid what he gets paid, and sees the amount of money the company makes "off his work". This incites him/her to think they are not paid enough, since the company "makes" 1 million dollars over my weekend of work, while I only got paid $15 an hour. Naturally, that worker is not educated, and doesn't understand overhead/operating costs and risk (!!!). Of course the owner of a company makes the money, he is risking the most. My thought on this is usually one of asking said employee if they are willing to pay back their wages when the company they work for loses money...
User avatar
Aabidano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4861
Joined: July 19, 2002, 2:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Florida

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Aabidano »

Bubba Grizz wrote:I'd like to more about this, "exploitation of the workers" bit. It is kind of a blanket statement which doesn't seem fair overall
He's more or less quoting Marxist-Leninist dogma. It's true to an extent if you expect the world to be "fair" and people to be decent to each other.

People in my experience seem to get paid ~5-20% of their contribution to the company at non-senior executive levels. Seems fair to me considering the non-profit making people businesses must have around. If you're at a start up that percentage increases, or are in some way extra-special.

I've multiple friends who own businesses and all do better than I do, even the guy I used to work with in telecom who does screened pool & porch enclosures. But the risk is certainly there and is all theirs, they've no safety net except what they've saved during a slow month or year.

Senior execs in most cases seem paid far, far in excess of their value. A former employer is paying multiple incompetent failures nearly 7 figure salaries to stay at home, after the millions they accumulated while failing in part due to idiocy, in part due to listening to Wall St. while dragging us down into the mud.

People like Larry Ellison, John Chambers and Steve Jobs are huge exceptions but get used by the rest as a benchmark to what they should be paid.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
User avatar
Aabidano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4861
Joined: July 19, 2002, 2:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Florida

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Aabidano »

"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
User avatar
Spang
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4811
Joined: September 23, 2003, 10:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Tennessee

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Spang »

Kluden wrote:I would argue, that exploitation of workers is all communism is about. China has the 1 percenters too...and then everyone else.
Those workers are assembling cellphones and flatscreens for multi-national corporations.

Watching this documentary from 1983, Seeing Red, will give you a better understanding of what communism is. It's not what you seem to think it is.
Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
User avatar
Kluden
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 13, 2002, 7:12 pm
Location: D.C.

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Kluden »

I don't need to watch a documentary. I'm Ukrainian. I imagine I have a better understanding of what Communism actually is than you ever will. Lets look at the "lower class" in communism. Today you make x...because x is what we determined the masses need. Not Y. Just X. You don't want to make X? You don't eat then. You die. Conform or die. Its called "forced labor" when you are made to work on something you don't want to do. That equates directly to exploitation of the worker.

Let's say product X is Sony Playstation 4's. Everyone wants one (except Winnow)...you can't make them fast enough. Who get's them before others? You just created status in a status-less system. Good job. You broke communism with your first product.

That's the communism I know. What first hand experience do you have with communism?

Or are you just going by wikipedia and a documentary?

And on the china thing about making flat screens, etc...those workers are 100% exploited, shitty hours, shitty pay. The communists in China are enjoying their tax profits on the export, but do nothing to protect their workers from international exploitation.

edit: Point to be made keeping on topic, Capitalism is much preferred to people who lived in the alternative(s). There is a much better chance of you accomplishing more in your life here in the US than in other societies. If you think that's some sort of brain washing, I highly suggest living the other side first, before saying down with capitalism.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27525
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Winnow »

Spang wrote: Watching this documentary from 1983, Seeing Red, will give you a better understanding of what communism is. It's not what you seem to think it is.
I saw "communism" in action. I'd guess I'm one of the few people on this board that traveled behind the Iron Curtain before it came crumbling down. I spent a week in Prague (in Czechoslovakia at the time) in 1984 when it was still part of the Soviet Union. I encountered the most miserable, depressed people. They weren't naturally that way, the "system" made them that way. Dreary, dirty city and blank stairs from the people living there. We traveled by bus from Switzerland via Germany to get there so besides spending a week in Prague, I was able to see the general (shitty) conditions along the way to and from the Czech border.

I'm sure you have some idealistic pretty image in your head of what communism is. It's mostly pure oppression.

When I see pictures of Prague today, I'm amazed at how nice it looks. I'm also betting those same miserable people I saw are much happier and now have toilet paper (which was incredibly hard to find back then).

bottom line: capitalism = access to cheap, plentiful toilet paper
User avatar
Aabidano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4861
Joined: July 19, 2002, 2:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Florida

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Aabidano »

Suppose you could ask a Venezuelan what a great improvement Chavez made in their lives after they were dumb enough to vote him into office. They still haven't gotten out from under that cloud.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
User avatar
Aslanna
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 12372
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm

Re: A rich guy speaks out to other rich folk

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:Attempting to have a debate with you people is not activism. I am not an activist.
What do you mean by "you people"? Sounds racist!
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?

--
Post Reply