US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd
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US oil, gas boom

Post by Leonaerd »

Link

We're getting pretty good at this oil thing.
That same month, North Dakota, Ohio and Pennsylvania together produced 1.5 million barrels of oil a day -- more than Iran exported.
"A dramatic expansion of U.S. production could … push global spare capacity to exceed 8 million barrels per day, at which point OPEC could lose price control and crude oil prices would drop, possibly sharply,"
Downside?
An International Monetary Fund analysis indicates that many major oil-producing states need more than that lowest price level to meet their budgets and would be forced to increase output or reduce spending, which could trigger unrest. Among them, according to the report: Iran, Libya and Russia, at $117 a barrel; Iraq, $112; Yemen, $237; and the UAE, $84.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:We're getting pretty good at this oil thing.
We're getting pretty good at destroying the planet with this oil thing -- most recently in Arkansas.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Maybe you should stop using any product which utilizes petroleum. You know.. To show your support.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Spang wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:We're getting pretty good at this oil thing.
We're getting pretty good at destroying the planet with this oil thing -- most recently in Arkansas.
There is a definite possibility that, because of this oil boom, America can establish some measure of permanence as world's lone tier-one superpower.

What would you suggest we do instead?
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:What would you suggest we do instead?
Well, clean air and water is absolutely necessary, so anything that is polluting our air and/or water supply should probably get replaced -- sooner than later -- with things that are a lot less hazardous to the environment.

Whether we get our oil from the Middle East, Canada or produce our own, that resource will eventually be gone (plus it fucks shit up), so we absolutely need to put a lot of effort into making renewable sources of energy a viable thing. Wind and sun spills are pretty rare.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Funkmasterr »

Fuck if I'm happy about saying it, but Spang is right. To think otherwise is pathetically moronic, shows a serious lack of education on the topic, and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with your dumb ass.

Seriously, look up some videos on the serious health issues people around these areas are having already. There are plenty of alternative energy sources that given a little time and money could be very viable, regardless of what you may have been led to believe. The problem is, the oil companies pay our corrupt, fuckhead politicians enough money to get them to stop damn near all funding going to these things.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Funkmasterr wrote:...Spang is right.
That's pretty common.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Spang wrote:that resource will eventually be gone (plus it fucks shit up)
Burgeoning technologies like fracking will ensure that oil will be around for a long enough time that we will be able to transition our infrastructure seamlessly to geothermal and solar. It will be easy. Becoming a mass exporter of oil and oil technologies will lead us into a very wealthy future. it will also cause OPEC to dissolve, it will make China our bitch... In short, it could bring world peace.

Any implication that we can make an energy transition overnight is short-sighted. We are entrenched in oil, and this future is a way out.
Fuck if I'm happy about saying it, but Spang is right. To think otherwise is pathetically moronic, shows a serious lack of education on the topic, and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with your dumb ass.
:vv_crying:
Seriously, look up some videos on the serious health issues people around these areas are having already.
They should be given government money (lots of it) to relocate prior to fracking. Greater good, etc. Save your sympthy stories for church. We're shaping the world's future here.
There are plenty of alternative energy sources that given a little time and money could be very viable,
Hmmmmmmm now if only we had a way to make some money................
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Spang »

Fuck fracking.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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A necessary evil.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:A necessary evil.
Nonsense.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Imagine paying beyond $10 / gallon. Imagine the food prices.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Funkmasterr wrote:Fuck if I'm happy about saying it, but Spang is right. To think otherwise is pathetically moronic, shows a serious lack of education on the topic, and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with your dumb ass.

Seriously, look up some videos on the serious health issues people around these areas are having already. There are plenty of alternative energy sources that given a little time and money could be very viable, regardless of what you may have been led to believe. The problem is, the oil companies pay our corrupt, fuckhead politicians enough money to get them to stop damn near all funding going to these things.
Good luck flying on a jet plane powered by solar panels. Obviously just big oil keeping us down. Literally!

The only "moronic" thing is thinking oil companies will ever lower their prices now that they know people will pay without too much commotion. That's just cutting into their profit.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Funkmasterr »

You realize that many of these people you think should be relocated so we can annihilate the environment are farmers of some type, and we kinda need them, right?

And any info you've read implying renewable energies, even in their current form, can't be profitable is horseshit. It's funny reading bullshit about THE UNGODLY AMOUNT of subsidies the renewable energy corporations receive (nothing remotely close to oil/coal). Then you get to read articles slamming how all these startup renewable energy companies are failin despite all this money being made available, when the reality is the government has made it an act of attrition to qualify for any of that money, all while oil keeps pumping money into the government to stifle growth in renewable energy.

Wake up.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:Imagine paying beyond $10 / gallon. Imagine the food prices.
Imagine flammable tap water. For too many people that is already a reality.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Spang wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:Imagine paying beyond $10 / gallon. Imagine the food prices.
Imagine flammable tap water. For too many people that is already a reality.
"Too many" is a number several magnitudes smaller than the number of those who would starve at $200 / barrel oil. You knew that, of course. Remind me again why you're in this thread?


You realize that many of these people you think should be relocated so we can annihilate the environment are farmers of some type, and we kinda need them, right?
In America, 70 million farmable acres are used for corn, another 70 million for soy, and we don't need either. Let them be salmon farmers in their brand new home, far, far away from where we are fracking.
And any info you've read implying renewable energies, even in their current form, can't be profitable is horseshit.
I agree?
It's funny reading bullshit about THE UNGODLY AMOUNT of subsidies the renewable energy corporations receive (nothing remotely close to oil/coal).
Subsidies are definitely a hot issue. With fracking being so damned effective and future-changing, we should totally continue with that. All the same, we should get rid of corn subsidies entirely (have we yet? I think I heard something about that) and focus on solar / wind / geo infrastructure to make you happy.
Then you get to read articles slamming how all these startup renewable energy companies are failin despite all this money being made available, when the reality is the government has made it an act of attrition to qualify for any of that money, all while oil keeps pumping money into the government to stifle growth in renewable energy.
Hmm. I haven't read these articles, but I can easily imagine that everything you say here is true. In any case: so what? These startup companies should know better than to try to tackle big oil, and it's never been anything less than obvious that the government looks out for those companies. They should make a startup clothing line instead.



I mean.... YEAH BIG OIL FUCKIN GROSS LET'S MAKE WIND AND PANELS AND SHIT AND WE'LL BE FINE AMERRRRICUUUUHHH
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:Burgeoning technologies like fracking will ensure that oil will be around for a long enough time that we will be able to transition our infrastructure seamlessly to geothermal and solar. It will be easy.
Your logic breaks right there, the way things stand we won't make any transition until we've no choice left and our economy is crumbling. Any new source of oil/gas just means that Wall St. has no reason to stop humping the corpse it's been on for decades. No short term advantage to Wall St means no money to pursue alternatives unless Govt. funded. As long as the republicans (in their current incarnation) have any sort of power you can be assured it won't happen.

Separate topic but fracking can be done cleanly in many locations, at a cost of a couple cents per dollar profit. Which means it doesn't happen as our politicians are generally tech idiots, treehuggers or booth and our regulatory agencies have been gutted. Plus loops us back to Wall St. again.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:In America, 70 million farmable acres are used for corn, another 70 million for soy, and we don't need either.
Most of the corn in the United States is consumed by the animals that you neanderthals eat.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Spang wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:In America, 70 million farmable acres are used for corn, another 70 million for soy, and we don't need either.
Most of the corn in the United States is consumed by the animals that you neanderthals eat.
Once again, no it isn't. Take this strand of douchiness back that other thread and high-5 yourself there.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Aabidano wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:Burgeoning technologies like fracking will ensure that oil will be around for a long enough time that we will be able to transition our infrastructure seamlessly to geothermal and solar. It will be easy.
Your logic breaks right there, the way things stand we won't make any transition until we've no choice left and our economy is crumbling. Any new source of oil/gas just means that Wall St. has no reason to stop humping the corpse it's been on for decades. No short term advantage to Wall St means no money to pursue alternatives unless Govt. funded. As long as the republicans (in their current incarnation) have any sort of power you can be assured it won't happen.

Separate topic but fracking can be done cleanly in many locations, at a cost of a couple cents per dollar profit. Which means it doesn't happen as our politicians are generally tech idiots, treehuggers or booth and our regulatory agencies have been gutted. Plus loops us back to Wall St. again.
First paragraph is spot on. And even if us doing all these things got rid of OPEC, something like it would be formed by our government and they'd probably screw us even harder. I'd be curious how fracking can be done cleanly (off the top of my head this would mean they are putting absolutely NOTHING aside from water into the ground) - I'm not saying you're wrong, because I honestly haven't heard anything to this effect.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Aabidano wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:Burgeoning technologies like fracking will ensure that oil will be around for a long enough time that we will be able to transition our infrastructure seamlessly to geothermal and solar. It will be easy.
Your logic breaks right there, the way things stand we won't make any transition until we've no choice left and our economy is crumbling.
I disagree that my logic breaks. Yeah, I shouldn't dare assume that we will transition in a good, timely manner, but that isn't something that we should have to consider, given how much value and worldly power we get out of fracking in the present day. As I see it, the longer we have cheap food and profitable exports, the better off we will be. And who knows - when we're on the next plateau of superpower, maybe they'll be nice enough to save the climates and whatnot out of boredom.

It can't be overstated how fucked we would be if we weren't fracking. We are using technology to kill OPEC and save ourselves. Is that not exciting?
Any new source of oil/gas just means that Wall St. has no reason to stop humping the corpse it's been on for decades. No short term advantage to Wall St means no money to pursue alternatives unless Govt. funded. As long as the republicans (in their current incarnation) have any sort of power you can be assured it won't happen.
This isn't even a big deal to me. Let them keep humping oil, as long as I can get food on the cheap. If there is any reason to think we will work to save the planet before we absolutely have to (or more likely, after it's too late), I'm waiting to hear it. Until then, we might as well use what we have to get as much power as possible.

I don't want you to think that I -like- what Wall St does. Nor do i want you to think I disagree with what you are saying. It's just.. what the fuck are we supposed to do? Get Americans to give a shit and vote out their local incumbents? :lol:
Separate topic but fracking can be done cleanly in many locations, at a cost of a couple cents per dollar profit. Which means it doesn't happen, loops us back to Wall St. again.
Again, not that big of a deal to me. Keep big oil happy, they'll keep my food cheap. Oil good. Stomach full.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Leonaerd wrote:Oil good. Stomach full.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Re: US oil, gas boom

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The biggest problem with natural gas is apparently it's not profitable enough when compared to all that sweet sweet oil.
Across western North Dakota, hundreds of fires rise above fields of wheat and sunflowers and bales of hay. At night, they illuminate the prairie skies like giant fireflies

They are not wildfires caused by lightning strikes or other acts of nature, but the deliberate burning of natural gas by oil companies rushing to extract oil from the Bakken shale field and take advantage of the high price of crude. The gas bubbles up alongside the far more valuable oil, and with less economic incentive to capture it, the drillers treat the gas as waste and simply burn it.

Every day, more than 100 million cubic feet of natural gas is flared this way — enough energy to heat half a million homes for a day.

The flared gas also spews at least two million tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every year, as much as 384,000 cars or a medium-size coal-fired power plant would emit, alarming some environmentalists.

All told, 30 percent of the natural gas produced in North Dakota is burned as waste. No other major domestic oil field currently flares close to that much, though the practice is still common in countries like Russia, Nigeria and Iran.
You can see that shit from SPACE!

Image

Of course recent legislation to help was defeated.. Imagine that.
The North Dakota Senate snuffed out a measure Wednesday aimed at curbing the oil industry's practice of wasting natural gas as an unwanted byproduct of oil production.

The bill, arguably the toughest to date against the oil industry in North Dakota, was defeated 34-13.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Re: US oil, gas boom

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The more oil The U.S. produces the better.

I remember the good old days when you couldn't walk 10 feet without running into one of these in California:

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They're fun to watch.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Aaaaand there goes the thread.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Aabidano wrote:
Spang wrote:Most of the corn in the United States is consumed by the animals that you neanderthals eat.
Once again, no it isn't.
You're wrong.
According to the National Corn Growers Association, about eighty percent of all corn grown in the U.S. is consumed by domestic and overseas livestock, poultry, and fish production.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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those are some odd numbers when ethanol use is around 40% of the total crop grown
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Aslanna wrote: You can see that shit from SPACE!

Image
Just to clarify in case it wasn't obvious.. All that light in the NW section is not from cities since there aren't really any over there. That's all natural gas burning. Wasteful!
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, natural gas production from the Bakken shale has increased more than 20-fold between 2007 and 2010. Gas production averaged over 485 million cubic feet per day in September 2011, compared to the 2005 average of about 160 million cubic feet per day. Due to the lack of a gas pipeline and processing facilities in the region, about 29 percent of that gas is flared.
safer to release in a flare than pure methane
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Maybe they should stop them from poking more holes in the area until the proper gas pipeline and processing facilities are in place?

/shock
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Funkmasterr »

The pipeline isn't in place because people are fighting it because this is all bullshit.

I just can't believe any intelligent person would argue there should be more of this kind of shit going on in the world and not less.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Another oil spill:
An estimated 50 barrels of oil spilled from a pipeline operated by a subsidiary of Royal Dutch Shell PLC into a waterway outside Houston, according to the U.S. Coast Guard.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Oooo 50 barrels. A little oil never hurt. It is natural, afterall. It comes from the ground. Like vegetables.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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The fact is that petroleum is nasty, dangerous stuff that we should not be using for daily necessities if at all avoidable.

But all this costs money and will cut into corporate profits, so it has absolutely no chance of happening. Because Congress is full of short-term thinkers who don't give two fucks about anything outside of themselves and their next lobbyist bribe.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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Funkmasterr wrote:I'd be curious how fracking can be done cleanly (off the top of my head this would mean they are putting absolutely NOTHING aside from water into the ground) - I'm not saying you're wrong, because I honestly haven't heard anything to this effect.
OK time to educate. Fraccing is not the issue many people think it is.

Petroleum (be it oil or gas) reservoirs exist because there is some type of geological trap that prevented it from migrating to the surface. When petroleum migrates, you get deposits like the oil shales in Montana or the oil sands in Alberta (Western Canada). The reservoirs that contain the deposits are literally thousands of feet deep and under tremendous pressure. Hydraulic fracturing creates fissures in the reservoir rock that allow the petroleum to flow more easily into the wellbore. If the fractures were vertical instead of horizontal, they would end at the next interface (which has to be harder to form the trap). One way to picture is like a brick wall, where the layers are continually offset and mortared; cracks won't go up from brick to brick through the mortar.

To make the long story short, the only way for petroleum to leave its reservoir is via the wellbore, so pumping frac fluid which is either water or oil with gelling agents to temporarily suspend the propant (sand or other fine material used to "prop" the fractures open) is really not opening the door to pollution.

Now sealing the well from things like the aquifers it passes through can have its own challenges and can be problematic; it requires a properly engineered program of pipe and cement to make that seal and if its not applied properly, you can have communication (i.e. formation to formation flow) between the various strata.

The flaming tap water is a little bit of an overblown thing: there are shallow pools of methane all over the place and they often accompany aquifers. The methane in the tap water in some places has absolutely nothing to do with oil and gas production, although in others it can be effected by seismic survey activity.

Now none of this means that oil & gas production doesn't pollute, but rather that it comes from two places: surface activities or improper well-bore sealing. The people that want to blame fraccing are talking out their asses.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Funkmasterr »

Wulfran wrote:A bunch of bullshit

http://www.allenstewart.com/practice-ar ... -fracking/
Someone that knows what they're talking about wrote: Chemicals Used in Fracking

Fracking fluids are complex mixtures of chemicals, water, and sand that are unique to each company. Like Colonel Sanders’ 11 secret herbs and spices, the makeup of this fluid is a jealously guarded trade secret that the oil and gas companies typically refuse to divulge, even under pressure. In the past, the industry has remained largely unregulated, but over the last few years, environmental watchdog groups have become increasingly concerned.

Contrary to the image most of us may envision, of vast pools of oil deep within the earth that merely need to be tapped and sucked out, most oil and gas is found in small pockets of rock. Far beneath the Earth’s surface lie multiple layers of different materials, including shale and clay. These porous rock formations trap natural gas, making it difficult to extract these fuels. Drilling companies use high pressure water, chemicals, and sand to create cracks in the rocks, allowing the gas to escape and flow towards the wells, where it can be collected and processed for sale. This process is known as “fracking,” which is shorthand for hydraulic fracturing.

It takes a great deal of pressure and a lot of liquid to crack the rock layer buried thousands of feet underground. Approximately 90% of all gas wells located on land employ fracking as a means of making gas more accessible. Most wells are fracked numerous times to extract the maximum profit from a drilling site before the well is exhausted.

Between 50,000 and 350,000 gallons of fluid are used during a fracking treatment, plus 75,000 to 320,000 pounds of sand, or proppant. The sand fills the cracks left by the pressurized liquid to keep the cracks from closing during the oil extraction process.

Since the rock layer is porous, water alone cannot be used as fracking fluid. Water would simply sink into the rock without cracking the substrate. For this reason, the drilling companies must make a slick mixture of fracking fluids. Hundreds of chemicals may go into the mix, including many cancer-causing agents and chemicals known to be toxic to humans, animals, and the environment. While oil and gas corporations fight legally to avoid releasing the ingredients in this toxic stew, scientists researching the problem have analyzed fracking fluid and discovered the following substances common to diesel fuel:

• Benzene
• Ethylbenzene
• Toluene
• Xylene
• Naphthalene
• Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons
• Methanol
• Formaldehyde
• Ethylene glycol
• Glycol ethers
• Hydrochloric acid
• Sodium hydroxide

Not all companies use diesel fuel, but most of the companies surveyed by a 2010 congressional committee admitted that diesel fuel is part of their fracking mixture. Even in cases where diesel fuel is not used, the mixture generally includes high levels of benzene. It takes only a tiny amount of benzene to poison millions of gallons of groundwater. In the five years studied by the investigation (2005 to 2009), 32 million gallons of hydraulic fluids have been pumped into the ground in the United States. None of the companies that admitted using diesel fuel in their fracking mixture requested or acquired a permit to use diesel fuel as required by law.
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Zaelath
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Zaelath »

Sounds like Wulf's version is the internally distibuted lies in the industry, like I've seen in every industry I've worked in. I'm sure fat McDonalds workers believe McD's is good food too.

Funk's version probably swings too far the other way.

Regardless, probable harm outweighs the likely good if you're doing any of this shit in populated areas, or places used for farming.
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Winnow
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Winnow »

Canada has dirty oil that no one wants to buy.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Spang »

ExxonMobil does not want you to see these images of oil fucking up Mayflower, Arkansas.
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And if you are a journalist, it'd be real swell if you didn't report on the spill.
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Spang
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Spang »

Winnow wrote:Canada has dirty oil that no one wants to buy.
Where do you think the United States gets most of its imported oil from? I'll give you a hint:
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Canada.
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Dakanaf
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Dakanaf »

So you are a vegan because you can't stand the thought of cows and chickesn and other animals dying to feed you, so I assume you don't use any sort of vehicle that uses gasoline. Otherwise please shut your hypocritical face hole up.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Aslanna »

Oil is bad mmmkay. But shit I gotta get to work!

Oh and I have to have packages delivered to my house. And fruits and veggies don't just magically appear in the store you know.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Spang »

Happy May Day:
May 1 (Reuters) - Exxon Mobil confirmed on Wednesday that an oil spill occurred Tuesday on its Pegasus crude pipeline in Ripley County, Missouri, the same line that ruptured thousands of barrels of oil into an Arkansas neighborhood at the end of March.
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Leonaerd
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Leonaerd »

The cleanup of the one-barrel leak was near completion, she said.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Boogahz »

:lol:

It would be one thing if that little tidbit of information was hidden deep in an article, but this one was stretched to barely fit two paragraphs.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

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That the pipeline was out of service probably had a lot to do with the minuscule size of the spill.
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Boogahz »

Kind of like how you're out-of-service?
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Re: US oil, gas boom

Post by Winnow »

Your car probably drips that much oil over the course of a month. Do you tool around in one of those old Peace VW Vans?
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