Obamacare!

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Aslanna
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Obamacare!

Post by Aslanna »

Upheld!

Well.. I didn't see that coming. I was honestly expecting a 5-4 ruling against.

Of course as an election issue I think this was a lose-lose for Obama. Regardless of whether it was upheld or not the Republicans will find an angle to attack him on it.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Spang »

It's not single-payer, but it's a start.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

It is a travesty. They opened up the government being able to mandate you paying for ANYTHING they want you to pay for under a taxation clause.

Theoretically, they could mandate that every single person over 18 must purchase a firearm for their protection in the home or face a fine. How would the liberal fucks respond to that one?

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Aslanna »

Well that's such a farfetched example I don't even see it happening. I think the government would be more happy with unarmed citizens. However I don't have a problem with it! What if the person already has a firearm? Do they get a tax credit?
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Why is it farfetched? When this country came into existence it was pretty much the case...and now they can mandate that I have to have insurance or pay a fine. Like I said...they can mandate ANYTHING they want and pass it through now.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Spang »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:It is a travesty. They opened up the government being able to mandate you paying for ANYTHING they want you to pay for under a taxation clause.

Theoretically, they could mandate that every single person over 18 must purchase a firearm for their protection in the home or face a fine. How would the liberal fucks respond to that one?
Liberals have guns, too.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

And I have insurance. The insurance part has ZERO bearing on what this can bring down. You all suck at Obama's cock and think how great this is....just wait til someone with a worse agenda gets in office and abuses this giant gaping hunk of shit and get back to me.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Spang »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:And I have insurance. The insurance part has ZERO bearing on what this can bring down. You all suck at Obama's cock and think how great this is....just wait til someone with a worse agenda gets in office and abuses this giant gaping hunk of shit and get back to me.
Yeah, the next guy (or gal) may force us to pay for police and fire protection, and the education of public school children.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kluden »

I'm not too worried about future tax penalty laws. Piss of the people enough, and shit changes fast with tax laws. Plus now it will just go to the house, since its a "tax" precedent ruling, and it can just be filibustered to fucking hell and back when someone tries to get another tax penalty measure passed. No need for the supreme court next time.

I'm just gonna sit back with some popcorn and wait for all the loopholes that people use. Sounds to me that I can ditch my $500 a month family health plan, and just sign up for insurance when the family needs it, pay the $500 tax penalty, and then ditch the insurance again once they get fixed up at the hospital.

I have a feeling this reform will be reformed before 12 months is out.

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Re: Obamacare!

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Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Why is it farfetched? When this country came into existence it was pretty much the case...
On the other hand when this country came into existence we didn't have a huge centralized military force and we were still fighting off foreign nations. The government wanted you to have a gun so if they called you to fight, which they more than likely would, they wouldn't have to provide you with a firearm. Now I'm sure the idea of every citizen being armed scares the shit out of them.

But I can pretty much see how it's the same thing.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Lynks »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Why is it farfetched? When this country came into existence it was pretty much the case...and now they can mandate that I have to have insurance or pay a fine. Like I said...they can mandate ANYTHING they want and pass it through now.
Because up here in Canada, we are forced to buy a whole bunch of things. :roll:

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Spang »

Image

I heard a peal of delight and turned around — that’s the picture at the top of this post. Hilary Matfess, a young policy analyst, was jumping up and down, yelling out details.

“The mandate is constitutional! It was upheld! Roberts went for the swing vote! Yes! Oh my God! The individual mandate survives as a tax!”

Did you work on passing the bill? I asked.

“No!” said Matfess. “I just have lupus!” - David Weigel at Slate
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Aabidano »

Spang wrote:It's not single-payer, but it's a start.
Hopefully, I'm not holding my breath.

This passed in the first place as it reinforced the insurance industry's place at the trough. My fear is that this will more firmly entrench them into the process, sucking ~5-20% of the healthcare spend off the top to operate their business (and pay their lobbyists).

No one, including our faux conservatives seem to have a problems with the individual pieces/parts of the law, except the requirement to purchase insurance and the "tax" if you don't.
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Re: Obamacare!

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Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:It is a travesty. They opened up the government being able to mandate you paying for ANYTHING they want you to pay for under a taxation clause.

Theoretically, they could mandate that every single person over 18 must purchase a firearm for their protection in the home or face a fine. How would the liberal fucks respond to that one?
Never in the history of the united states has the government mandated something. I am going to continue to be really outraged while brainlessly parroting the talking points I saw on Fox News.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Zaelath »

I just got my tax from last year back:

Medicare Levy: $1292.55 (unavoidable)
Medicare Surcharge: $861.70 (because I didn't take out personal insurance that cost me $1361.90 this year)
Fine for filing late: $550.00 (they wouldn't have charge this if the surcharge didn't mean I owed them money instead of vice versa)

"Free" medical cover to me last year: $2704.25

Doctors visits in 10 years: 4, including one to a nurse to get patched up after I stepped on some glass.

And I still think Kilmoll is batshit crazy.

A little bit of socialism is a lot cheaper than defending against attack from the poor, and a lot better than getting "world class treatment" for more disease because 50% of your population is always infected with horrible shit.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Spang »

A conservative friend of mine on Facebook asked about affordable housing in Australia. When I mentioned that Australia has a universal healthcare system, she decided it was best to stay in Texas.

Earlier in the day she posted a picture which compared Obama to Hitler. Because preventing insurance companies from denying healthcare coverage to people due to a pre-existing condition is just like shoving Jews into ovens, or occupying Poland.
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Re: Obamacare!

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Australian "universal" medical care is similar to the US system of forcing ERs to treat everyone then futilely chasing them into bankruptcy, except we all contribute and there is no ER bill to pay.

If you want dental, or lasik, or the million other things that aren't universally available, you need to shell out a couple grand a year in private insurance.

On the whole I think our system is cheaper to the public sector and the private sector since there's not the rampant systemic pricing abuse that the US has, but you know, I love me some Jew BBQ.
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Re: Obamacare!

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Zaelath wrote:On the whole I think our system is cheaper to the public sector and the private sector since there's not the rampant systemic pricing abuse that the US has
That's the whole part the Killmolls in the US aren't capable of understanding, I won't call them conservative because they aren't. (They need a new label, one for the "liberals" too while we're at it.)

Anything past the basics, meaning preventative care and ER type stuff should be the individuals responsibility.

Providing the basics centrally in a medicare for all fashion would be much cheaper for US business than letting "the free market" determine the pricing, especially when "the free market" is the only segment of the US economy where price fixing and monopolistic practices are totally legal. Not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere as well but they've got to be sneaky about it.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Fairweather Pure »

It is a start. I see this only slowing the pace of health care's cost, not reigning it in within entirely. It will be revisited in 15ish years, but not before several revisions that close the loopholes that will appear in the system once it goes live.


Everyone with insurance is already paying for those that do not pay for their medical bills.


Everyone is guaranteed emergency health care in the US. You cannot be turned away for treatment anywhere in this country. That is illegal. So, we all have accessibility to some form of health care for emergency situations. What we do not have is affordable health care for everyone. Once you receive any sort of treatment, you are expected to pay for it. If you do not have insurance, you will be expected to pay a premium on your services that Blue Cross and other providers who get from 20-80% discounts on various services and procedures. The power of money and lobbyists! But what happens when people cannot or will not pay for their medical treatment?

The systems health care have in place come in the form of non-payment write offs. In order to get to that point, they have to go through the process of billing, collections, ect. Uninsured patients get charged more, pay less (if they pay at all), and those losses are spread to those with insurance and those that actually pay. Less people can afford health insurance, so less people are able to pay, which makes insurace companies have to pay more to cover the difference in services for those that do not pay. This is why health care costs so much in America and it's only going to get worse if we don't come to our senses.

Another example is this (hypothetical numbers inc):

An artificial heart costs 20k to manufacture. The patient is billed 50k. The reason is that for every heart that is installed, only 1 out of every 3 will be insured and get payment. The overcharge is to cover the loss of the ones that are not paid for. Does that make sense? Now extrapolate that over every service or product offered by the health care system from band aids to brain surgery. This is why people pay 8$ for a single Tyelonal in the ER. Every goddamn thing is over charged. Those that pay are paying for those that cannot. You see, we are already running a socialist style system, but it is disguised under so many layers of bullshit and dogma that the average person cannot see the forest through the trees.

If you have insurance, you are paying for those that do not pay their medical bills. The fee is hidden in our overpriced heath care system, but you are absolutely paying for it.

We needed a change. Like I said, this is a start but I believe there is a long way to go. Talking to people that hate the bill, you realize they are just poorly informed on the subject and completely ignorant about everything related to our health care system. The Obama Administration gets the blame here for not getting the message out and educating the public (not an easy task, I agree). Basically, it all comes down to the comic I've listed below.

Image

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Your cartoon...and you...miss the point. Again I say that people are NOT upset about healthcare reform. They are upset about being MANDATED by the government to have it. This decision is a horrendous precedent to have set down. Outside of that mandate, people are mostly pissed that this moron put this ahead of getting our economy straightened out. If we were humming along with a strong economy and had a balanced budget and the defecit was coming down and they eliminated the individual mandate, the outcry would have only been from the extremist right wing.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Let me also say that healthcare is NOT going to come down. People are going to still not pay for healthcare, they will pay the ridiculous fine, will still have to use hospitals for emergencies, and we are STILL going to be footing the bill. The only thing it is going to do is have a bunch of doctors close up shop rather than deal with this pathetic administration...and that is already happening.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Sylvus »

I'm curious if most of the people that are so angry with "Obamacare" even know what exactly it entails.

Here's a pretty good read for the specifics, I know I learned a few things from it.

Seriously, read this, then tell me what, specifically, you have a problem with.

/edit: Ignore the mandate, for a moment. We get it, you're opposed to this strictly because of the mandate, you are totally cool with it outside of the mandate. Right?
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

One of the largest issues (other than timing this to be in the middle of an economic downturn) is that it dissuades small businesses from hiring. A second issue is that they can now tax flex spending. A third is that it punishes GOOD healthcare plans and pretty much insures that no one will get them as a benefit now.


There are other things I can nitpick....but let me be clear that there are many things in there that I think are GOOD. Wrong time for this plan and too many negatives make it a disaster.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Funkmasterr »

The one thing that really struck me as shitty was the taxing of flex spending accounts. I don't agree with that at all, but it's obviously not a deal breaker.

I think it will end up having a positive effect long term.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Sylvus »

The taxation of cafeteria plans (to use the nomenclature in the Act), or flexible spending accounts, only applies to each dollar per calendar year OVER $2500. If you're putting in $3000, you'll have to pay tax on $500 of that. I'm virtually certain that won't affect you, Funk.
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Re: Obamacare!

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One of the largest issues is that it dissuades small businesses from hiring
"Anyone who has ever run a business knows that hiring more people is a course of last resort of capitalists. It’s what we do if, and only if, rising consumer demand requires it, and in this sense, calling ourselves job creators isn’t just inaccurate – it’s disingenuous."

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Funkmasterr »

Sylvus wrote:The taxation of cafeteria plans (to use the nomenclature in the Act), or flexible spending accounts, only applies to each dollar per calendar year OVER $2500. If you're putting in $3000, you'll have to pay tax on $500 of that. I'm virtually certain that won't affect you, Funk.
Oh no, it won't affect me, I just don't agree with it happening, regardless of what amount it starts happening at. I firmly believe that flex spending, 401k, health care, all that stuff should be 100% pre-tax, without limitations/restrictions.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Avestan »

The individual mandate is pretty much the only part of this law that I like.

Pre-existing condition regulation, attempts to reign in premium increases, etc are all bad news.


If you were an insurance company and two individuals came to you to get insurance and the first one was perfectly healthy and you think your cost to insure that person for a year was $100, you might charge $120 and call it a day.

Person two comes in and you think that person likely will cost you $200, so you charge $240 and call it a day.

Uncle Sam says that you have to charge both people the same. Well - I would charge each of them $180. Great for person two, shitty for person 1. As a nation, it behooves us to promote activities that get people to act more like person 1 and less like person 2. Single price removes a very strong way to do that.

I do not want person 2 to die or go broke because he / she has some genetic illness and actually support the government's efforts to cover that case, but what if we did something like this instead:


Charge both people $30 a year, but tell them they they have to pay 100% of their health costs out of pocket up to $150, but everything above that is covered 100%.

Person 1 then pays $30 for the insurance and $100 ($130) in medical bills. Person 2 pays $30 for the insurance and $150 ($180) in bills before he hits his cap. The insurance company earns less money, but has a hedge against their risk and is happy. Person 1 pays only a little more than their original amount and person 2 saves significantly compared to their original AND is protected against a $1000 bill in the case of emergency.


Screw constitutionality - the current law is dumb. The mandate is the only part of it that makes sense.

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Re: Obamacare!

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The thing about your example is the ratio isn't 1:1

What it's more like is insurance companies being happy to insure healthy 25 year olds for $100 for 30 years because they cost $5/year until they're sick then drop their insurance while the system is still futzing around with diagnosis.

Insurance is supposed to be a risk spreading pool, it's *inherently* socialist really, since you're saying "We'll all pay into a pool and the unlucky ones will get taken care of". Well, either socialist or a really boring form of gambling. The American system though is, "We'll all pay into the pool and no one gets any money except the people running the pool".

You're not talking about raising the "average" by 50%, more like 5% and actually doing what insurance is supposed to; protect people from rare catastrophic occurances. If you insure yourself for things you could handle paying out of pocket you're an idiot, like paying for glass insurance on your new SUV.

To top that off, the insurance companies pay a fraction of the list price that you would have to pay if you were happy to pay cash up front... that alone says your "market" system is broken as fuck. When cash in advance is less valuable than an agreement to settle an account at some point in the future, if we don't decide that it isn't covered even though we said it was, and now you have to chase the patient for the money who will be more interested in fighting with us than paying you any money.

I dunno how y'all can look at Canada and Australia and think this is a big deal.

Avestan certainly doesn't wanna vote for the other side, seems like the only part of this Romney would repeal is the part that pays for it; the mandate.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Aabidano »

If you insure yourself for things you could handle paying out of pocket you're an idiot, like paying for glass insurance on your new SUV.
Sums up my thoughts on health insurance as implemented.
I do not want person 2 to die or go broke because he / she has some genetic illness and actually support the government's efforts to cover that case, but what if we did something like this instead:

Charge both people $30 a year, but tell them they they have to pay 100% of their health costs out of pocket up to $150, but everything above that is covered 100%.
Which is what we ought to be doing across the board, even that $150 could be negotiable for the elderly and those in poverty.

I think there's a decent argument that this is part of fixing our economy and an important one. It's a huge black hole sucking in cash from every segment of our society.

Doctors are getting shafted - by the insurance companies. They aren't quitting and closing up shop though, they've bills to pay just like the rest of us.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Siji »

What every hater seems to be forgetting? What did YOUR beloved team offer? An alternative? Fuck no. An attempt to work together to come up with something? Fuck no.

So until you bitch ass ignorant motherfuckers have a better solution, shut your fucking pie holes.

I'm sick to fucking death of you fucking GOP twats not being able to do shit but say no to everything and anything and act like dysfunctional little spoiled brats. The only thing you fucks excel at is misinformation and ignorance.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Boogahz »

I don't vote repub, but that goes both ways. Both parties are just as fucked up.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Siji wrote:What every hater seems to be forgetting? What did YOUR beloved team offer? An alternative? Fuck no. An attempt to work together to come up with something? Fuck no.

So until you bitch ass ignorant motherfuckers have a better solution, shut your fucking pie holes.

I'm sick to fucking death of you fucking GOP twats not being able to do shit but say no to everything and anything and act like dysfunctional little spoiled brats. The only thing you fucks excel at is misinformation and ignorance.

The GOP was not even invited to offer ideas you ignorant fuck. All 3 branches were locked by Dems and they blocked the GOP out entirely. Lets not forget that this was a major reason they LOST the House and I have a feeling there will be a bigger change this November. The best economic time we had you all agree was under Clinton...and it came about after the Dems lost both branches and the GOP worked with Clinton to get a balanced budget.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:The GOP was not even invited to offer ideas you ignorant fuck. All 3 branches were locked by Dems and they blocked the GOP out entirely. Lets not forget that this was a major reason they LOST the House and I have a feeling there will be a bigger change this November. The best economic time we had you all agree was under Clinton...and it came about after the Dems lost both branches and the GOP worked with Clinton to get a balanced budget.
This is the same GOP that had a closed door meeting weeks after Obama was elected and went forward voting "no" on every single thing put in front of them, no matter what it was. Their solution to being ousted by the American people in the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives was to rally around the party and vote no no no no no. They aren't called "The Party of No" for nothing. I think one of Obama's earliest and biggest set backs was believing he could reach out to the Republican Party. What a fucking waste of time. The Republicans have done nothing but stonewall everything they can and offer nothing in return. Fuck em. They are worthless pieces of shit who do nothing but tote the party line, throwing America and it's people under the bus in the process. The Republican Party circles the wagons 10x better than the Democrats ever have. Too bad they do it for all the wrong reasons.

The Republican Party has had all the time and resources in the world to do their own detailed health care plan, but they seem preoccupied worshiping Jesus and Reagan while hating niggers, faggots, spics, and chasing men behind their wife's back to bother. What a joke. How hypocritical and sickening the Republicans have become. No wonder all the least educated of the 50 states vote Republican. You'd have to be a creationist fucking retard to eat all the shit they serve up and constantly vote against your own self interest.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

You are full of shit. Go listen to Rubio talk to Jon Stewart about the bullshit that occurs on the floor. It is sad and I am sure it goes both ways with whoever has majority.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Avestan »

If any of you think that the GOP has a monopoly on being dickheaded, uncompromising, polarized, fundamentalist morons - you are just as stupid as they are.

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Leonaerd
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Leonaerd »

Why does it always boil down to red vs. blue, when it's really red & blue vs. all of us? They divide us so exceptionally well that we cannot even agree on who the enemy is.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Want to call out Dems on their bullshit? Make a thread for what they are doing to stone wall progress trying to be made by republicans.

This thread is about a very specific topic and is addressing the parties involved with said topic. "Everyone does it" does not move this particular debate about Obamacare forward at all.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Funkmasterr »

Fairweather Pure wrote:Want to call out Dems on their bullshit? Make a thread for what they are doing to stone wall progress trying to be made by republicans.

This thread is about a very specific topic and is addressing the parties involved with said topic. "Everyone does it" does not move this particular debate about Obamacare forward at all.
You take your logic and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS! Quit trying to detract attention from the fact that Obama is a fucking COMMIE and he is going to ruin everything great about this absolutely flawless, awesome country. America, FUCK YEAH!
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Zaelath »

Funkmasterr wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:Want to call out Dems on their bullshit? Make a thread for what they are doing to stone wall progress trying to be made by republicans.

This thread is about a very specific topic and is addressing the parties involved with said topic. "Everyone does it" does not move this particular debate about Obamacare forward at all.
You take your logic and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS! Quit trying to detract attention from the fact that Obama is a fucking COMMIE and he is going to ruin everything great about this absolutely flawless, awesome country. America, FUCK YEAH!
:vv_stupid: :mrgreen:
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by masteen »

Nobody has mentioned this, and it's the core of what the insurance corporation and their puppets in DC are pissed about:

Obamacare mandates that medical insurance companies spend at least 80% of their income on actually providing medical care. 85% for large group providers.

I know, how will those poor corporations get by with ONLY 20% profit margins? They might have to fire some lobbyists and lawyers and marketing goons to hire doctors and nurses! FUCKING SOCIALISM NAZI BULLSHIT IS WHAT THAT IS!!!!1!!!!one!!!!
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by kyoukan »

Straw man arguments aside, this is only a tiny step towards universal health care Americans deserve. It is important to legislate out the awful things insurance companies do to people in that country until private health care for critical illness and injury is no longer a profitable industry, and then let the government take it over so it can be ran responsibly and effectively.

Americans spend way more on health care per person and receive less care than any other industrialized nation. This is because most of the money spent goes to making huge insurance corporations rich while Americans die to treatable illnesses and disease. Stupid people like Kilmoll need to be protected from themselves by legislation and government intervention. Barack Obama knows this, and although he isn't sharing it, his roadmap to health care in America includes getting rid of these insurance company's ability to dictate who lives and who dies, while stealing people's money.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by masteen »

In related news:

We're bringing treatable third-world diseases back!

The truly awesome part is that the best plan the government could come up with was obfuscation while simultaneously closing the facility best equipped to deal with the problem.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Aabidano »

That's one way to clear out the homeless?

Wouldn't be surprised if Rick "Skeletor" Scott has a profit motive in this someplace. I can see him as a future Blagojevich roommate. Kind of surprised it hadn't happened already.

Edit - Bill just came in from an ER visit last month, got a CT scan of my noggin and some stitches. At the "uninsured rate" it would've cost ~$11k, the "negotiated rate" with my insurer(s) comes out to ~$1k. My out of pocket is under $50. Had I told them I was paying cash it would've come out someplace around $2k from past experience.

The lien they'll happily place on your house goes at the uninsured rate if you aren't smart enough to specify otherwise up front or negotiate it down later.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Avestan »

kyoukan wrote:Straw man arguments aside, this is only a tiny step towards universal health care Americans deserve. It is important to legislate out the awful things insurance companies do to people in that country until private health care for critical illness and injury is no longer a profitable industry, and then let the government take it over so it can be ran responsibly and effectively.

Americans spend way more on health care per person and receive less care than any other industrialized nation. This is because most of the money spent goes to making huge insurance corporations rich while Americans die to treatable illnesses and disease. Stupid people like Kilmoll need to be protected from themselves by legislation and government intervention. Barack Obama knows this, and although he isn't sharing it, his roadmap to health care in America includes getting rid of these insurance company's ability to dictate who lives and who dies, while stealing people's money.
I have no arguments with your facts, but I do question the premise that government getting involved does anything to change it.

The US also spends more money per person on our public education system which is an absolute joke.

I think rational people agree that we have a problem, but more government involvement seems like a dumb solution to me. I suspect that there is not much tolerance here for debating different solutions that do not involve government regulation & mandates, but I would start with allowing people to purchase insurance acress state lines to increase competition between insurance companies. That particular idea is not more government involvement - it is less.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by kyoukan »

why in the world would any sane person ever think that leaving critical health care in the hands of profit driven corporations is a good idea. I know that you are just regurgitating what you are told to regurgitate by right wing media, but seriously.

name a single successful health care program that isn't legislated and overseen by the government. I can name you twenty off the top of my head that are.

It is beyond ludicrous to expect a profit driven insurance company no not to to steal from their clients by denying access to health care they need because it's too expensive.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Funkmasterr »

Yeah, my mom ha a long fight to get her medication for rheumatoid arthritis covered. If she hadn't got them to pay for it, it would cost her around 35k/year. Every time I refill my prescription for my psoriasis medicine, I have to fight them to get it paid for, otherwise it would be 1k a pop four times a year. They aren't going to do anything decent unless they're forced to, I'm not sure how many examples of this you need from American corporations to get that.
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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Avestan »

kyoukan wrote:why in the world would any sane person ever think that leaving critical health care in the hands of profit driven corporations is a good idea. I know that you are just regurgitating what you are told to regurgitate by right wing media, but seriously.

name a single successful health care program that isn't legislated and overseen by the government. I can name you twenty off the top of my head that are.

It is beyond ludicrous to expect a profit driven insurance company no not to to steal from their clients by denying access to health care they need because it's too expensive.
I think I have decided to ignore everyone on this thread except for you. That will lower the idiot level significantly.

Fair question. I happen to love my health care - provided by a private company. For a while, I had Kaiser and thoguht that service was quite good. These days, my provider is Aetna, and it has been good. My first daughter was born deaf and at 10 months - she needed surgery that "cost" $350,000 to get bilateral cochlear implants. It was approved in a week. I know that a sample size of 1 is not scientific, but for those of us with insurance, those profit driven organizations have done great from my perspective. The problem is access - not service level - hence why I support the mandate.

While I lean right - I think I already in this thread took a stance that runs counter to the republican talking heads you mention (individual mandate), but I have not seen a single self described progressive lend any creedance to ideas put forth on the other side (key someone mentioning the party rhetoric that the GOP never has ideas). You can take the 100% partisan stance of "all republicans are idiots" or you can take a more rational stance that you have been drinking their cool aid for a long time. I do not have high hopes for this group being rational or independent.

I am just amazed that so many people in this country can have any confidence in our government to run an initiative like this with any kind of efficiency. The daily failures, corruption, and unreal inefficiencies of anything government run seem so obvious to me. . .

My counter to your question is this. Name a single US government service (health care or otherwise) that you think runs as well or better than their private counterpart. The only one I can come up with is the military, but I would genuinely be interested in hearing of more. I don't want to hear about other countries because I think other countries have their shit together more than we do. US agencies. Go.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Leonaerd »

I think I have decided to ignore everyone on this thread except for you. That will lower the idiot level significantly.
:roll:

Great way to be taken seriously.

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Re: Obamacare!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Avestan wrote: My counter to your question is this. Name a single US government service (health care or otherwise) that you think runs as well or better than their private counterpart. The only one I can come up with is the military, but I would genuinely be interested in hearing of more. I don't want to hear about other countries because I think other countries have their shit together more than we do. US agencies. Go.
NASA, CIA, FBI. Mostly because there has never been a private counterpart, but you make a very good point with it.

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