80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

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80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

This guy might be the #1 shooting spree killer of all time. Sounds like he thought things out better than most gunmen. Isolated on island accessible only by ferry, he shot for 1.5 hours before help arrived. Plus he blew the crap out of downtown Oslo (if it's same guy)
OSLO, Norway (AP) — A gunman who opened fire on an island teeming with young people kept shooting for 1.5 hours before surrendering to a SWAT team, which arrived 40 minutes after they were called, police said Saturday.

Survivors of the shooting spree have described hiding and fleeing into the water to escape the gunman, but a police briefing Saturday detailed for the first time how long the terror lasted — and how long victims waited for help.

When the SWAT team did arrive, the gunman, who was carrying a pistol and an automatic weapon, surrendered, said Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim.

"There were problems with transport to Utoya," where the youth-wing of Norway's left-leaning Labor Party was holding a retreat, Sponheim said. "It was difficult to get a hold of boats."

At least 85 people were killed on the island, but police said four or five people remain missing.

Divers have been searching the surrounding waters, and Sponheim said the missing may have drowned. Police earlier said there was an unexploded device on the island, but it later turned out to be fake.

The attack followed a car bomb outside a government building in Oslo, where another seven people were killed. Police are still digging through rubble there, and Sponheim said there are still body parts in the building.

Police have not identified the suspect, but Norwegian national broadcaster NRK say he is Anders Behring Breivik. They have said only that they have charged a 32-year-old under Norway's terror law. He will be arraigned on Monday when a court decides whether police can continue to hold him as the investigation continues.

Authorities have not given a motive for the attacks, but both were in areas connected to the Labor Party, which leads a coalition government.

Even police confessed to not knowing much about the suspect, but details trickled out about him all day: He had ties to a right-leaning political party, he posted on Christian fundamentalist websites, and he rented a farm where he amassed six tons of fertilizer.

Police said the suspect is talking to them and has admitted to firing weapons on the island. It was not clear if he had confessed to anything else he is accused of. Police said he retained a lawyer, but the attorney did not want to be identified.

"He has had a dialogue with the police the whole time, but he's a very demanding suspect," Sponheim said.

Earlier in the day, a farm supply store said it had alerted police that he bought six tons of fertilizer, which is highly explosive and can be used in homemade bombs.

Police and soldiers were searching for evidence and potential bombs at the farm South of Oslo on Saturday. Havard Nordhagen Olsen, a neighbor, told The Associated Press that Breivik moved in about one month ago, just next to his house and said he seemed like "a regular guy."

Olsen said he recognized his neighbor in the newspapers this morning and admitted to "being under shock."

Meanwhile, Mazyar Keshvari, a spokesman for Norway's Progress Party — which is conservative but within the political mainstream — said that the suspect was a paying member of the party's youth wing from 1999 to 2004.

In all, 92 people have been killed in what Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said was peacetime Norway's deadliest day. The Oslo University hospital said it has so far received 11 wounded from the bombing and 19 people from the camp shooting.

"This is beyond comprehension. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare for those who have been killed, for their mothers and fathers, family and friends," Stoltenberg told reporters Saturday.

Gun violence is rare in Norway, where the average policeman patrolling in the streets doesn't carry a firearm. Reports that the assailant was motivated by political ideology were shocking to many Norwegians, who pride themselves on the openness of their society. Indeed, Norway is almost synonymous with the kind of free expression being exercised by the youth at the political retreat.

King Harald V, Norway's figurehead monarch, vowed Saturday that those values would not change.

"I remain convinced that the belief in freedom is stronger than fear. I remain convinced in the belief of an open Norwegian democracy and society. I remain convinced in the belief in our ability to live freely and safely in our own country," said the king.

The monarch, his wife and the prime minister led the nation in mourning, visiting grieving relatives of the scores of youth gunned down. Buildings around the capital lowered their flags to half-staff. People streamed to Oslo Cathedral to light candles and lay flowers; outside, mourners began building a makeshift altar from dug-up cobblestones. The Army patrolled the streets of the capital, a highly unusual sight for this normally placid country.

The city center was a sea of roadblocks Saturday, with groups of people peering over the barricades wherever they sprang up, as the shell-shocked Nordic nation was gripped by reports that the gunman may not have acted alone. Police have not confirmed a second assailant but said they are investigating witness reports.

The queen and the prime minister hugged when they arrived at the hotel where families are waiting to identify the bodies. Both king and queen shook hands with mourners, while the prime minister, his voice trembling, told reporters of the harrowing stories survivors had recounted to him.

On the island of Utoya, panicked teens attending a Labour Party youth wing summer camp plunged into the water or played dead to avoid the assailant in the assault. A picture sent out on Twitter showed a blurry figure in dark clothing pointing a gun into the water, with bodies all around him.

The carnage began Friday afternoon in Oslo, when a bomb rocked the heart of Norway. About two hours later, the shootings began at the youth retreat, according to a police official. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police.

The blast in Oslo, Norway's capital and the city where the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded, left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered glass and documents expelled from surrounding buildings.

The dust-clogged scene after the blast reminded one visitor from New York of Sept. 11. People were "just covered in rubble," walking through "a fog of debris," said Ian Dutton, who was in a nearby hotel.

Asked whether all victims at Utoya died from gunshot wounds or if some had drowned, Stoere, the foreign minister, said "you will likely see a combination."

A 15-year-old camper named Elise who was on Utoya said she heard gunshots, but then saw a police officer and thought she was safe. Then he started shooting people right before her eyes.

"I saw many dead people," said Elise, whose father, Vidar Myhre, didn't want her to disclose her last name. "He first shot people on the island. Afterward he started shooting people in the water."

Elise said she hid behind the same rock that the killer was standing on. "I could hear his breathing from the top of the rock," she said.

She said it was impossible to say how many minutes passed while she was waiting for him to stop.

At a hotel in the village of Sundvollen, where survivors of the shooting were taken, 21-year-old Dana Berzingi wore pants stained with blood. He said the fake police officer ordered people to come closer, then pulled weapons and ammunition from a bag and started shooting.

Several victims "had pretended they were dead to survive," Berzingi said. But after shooting the victims with one gun, the gunman shot them again in the head with a shotgun, he said.

"I lost several friends," said Berzingi, who used the cell phone of one of those friends to call police.

An official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City than it is Norway's World Trade Center." Domestic terrorists carried out the 1995 attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City, while foreign terrorists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

Aerial images broadcast by Norway's TV2 showed members of a SWAT team dressed in black arriving at the island in boats and running up the dock. People who had stripped down to their underwear moved in the opposite direction, swimming away from the island toward the mainland, some using flotation devices.

Earlier in the day, a farm supply store said it had alerted police that he bought six tons of fertilizer, which is highly explosive and can be used in homemade bombs.
Sounds like he made his bomb, blew up Oslo downtown, took the ferry to island and shot dead 80+ people, shooting victims a second time in the head with a shotgun to make sure they were dead. This guy was smart and ruthless.

Not sure if we have anyone from Norway on this board but sorry to see this take place. It's worse than the Oklahoma City bombing.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Leonaerd »

Calmly telling them they were all going to die before opening fire... mostly teenagers... shooting them as they swim away...

very disturbing. difficult to even type about it. probably why there's no post.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Funkmasterr »

Yeah, that's extremely fucked up and disturbing. The calm, collective smile the guy has on his face in the back of the squad car in the article I just read scares me.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Xouqoa »

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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

There are no words.
IT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT; SOMETHING IS WRONG
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

and right now they are saying a maximum sentence of 21 years....


are you bullfucking me?
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Xouqoa »

21 years per infraction or total? If total, that doesn't make any sense.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Boogahz »

Sounded like total when I read it yesterday. It was referencing the differences based on justice systems. I can fully understand how some areas would have much more "lenient" systems than the US, but with this type of crime.....whoa.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Norway has no law that allows for a life sentence (and even if they did, it'd probably be automatically commuted after ~20 years like in Sweden and Denmark). What they do have, and what I seriously hope will happen, is the option of giving him an indefinite sentence based on psych evaluations. Most European countries, afaik, don't have cumulative sentencing like you do in the US, so 6 counts of a crime that has a sentencing range of 3-5 years won't get you 18-30 years but most likely just plant you in the higher end of the spectrum.

There's talk now of them charging him with crimes against humanity which allows for a 30 year sentence.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by miir »

And we all know how effective heavy prison terms are as a deterrent to crime.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

Must be nice to be a criminal in Scandinavia. Things not going well? Under 20? Kill lots of people, head to jail for a few decades, write a book, be released before you're 40 and have plenty of time to enjoy life.

That criminal system encourages serial killers. Why stop at one? It doesn't really matter how many you kill. Max you get is ~20 years no matter what you do. 1 or 1000 kills, no matter now brutal or pre planned, = maybe a couple years difference in prison sentence with no chance of death. Sweet.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Aslanna »

I've fairly certain he wasn't considering the prison term when he planned/executed his plan. He probably thought SWAT or whoever was going to take him out.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Boogahz »

yeah, it didn't sound like he quite expected to get as far as he did
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

Aslanna wrote:I've fairly certain he wasn't considering the prison term when he planned/executed his plan. He probably thought SWAT or whoever was going to take him out.
He calmly surrendered. He didn't go down in a blaze of glory. If he was looking to off himself, you'd think he'd at least would have taken some shots at the police. If he remains as calm as he appears in the pictures, it would make it a challenge to declare him insane. I suppose you could always whip out ink blots and call him crazy no matter what he sees. Maybe he was just pooped from all the killing.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

The guy is insane. He didn't do it because he could get away with a (relatively) short sentence. He wants not to be a martyr, but to be a fucking rolemodel. He wants to be The One. He wouldn't have been deterred by a 1800 years in jail.
Winnow, if you fucking DARE lay the deaths of 78 innocents at the foot of the fucking sentencing laws, I... well I don't know what I'll do. Encourages serial killers?

Even for you that's a new fucking low. I seriously seriously hope you were trolling because if not, you should fucking end yourself, right now.

Christ on a fucking pogostick.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

I'm not saying every mass murder thinks about the law before committing a crime.

I'll ask you if you think ~20 years for killing 70+ people with intent to kill as many as he could is a just punishment. It's pre meditated. You don't write 1500 pages of crazy,create a huge bomb, dress like a cop, inform everyone they're going to die, unless it's premeditated.

20 years is a weak deterrent. It may not deter but if it has the possibility of deterring, the punishment needs to be able to be scaled.

I lean toward the death penalty for pre meditated murder.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by miir »

Harsh sentences are simply not a deterrent.
The death penalty only serves to satiate an individuals desire for revenge.

Norway does not need to change their laws or make an exception for this individual.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

miir wrote:Harsh sentences are simply not a deterrent.
The death penalty only serves to satiate an individuals desire for revenge.
That is the bleeding heart liberal view. The death penalty makes sure that these assholes don't get the chance to kill again.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by miir »

Suggesting that a country with a very low rate of violent crime adopt the sentencing values of a country that has a very high rate of violent crime makes little sense.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Leonaerd »

miir wrote:Suggesting that a country with a very low rate of violent crime adopt the sentencing values of a country that has a very high rate of violent crime makes little sense.
Just say it: you wish this man the right to commit another massacre in his lifetime.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

miir wrote:Suggesting that a country with a very low rate of violent crime adopt the sentencing values of a country that has a very high rate of violent crime makes little sense.
Obviously it's not working. Look what just happened. Suggesting something other than what they have isn't out of the norm, considering their environment may be changing as their population changes. (what the crazy guy wrote about in his manifesto)
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Lynks »

I don't think people like this consider what might happen to them in terms of jail time/death penalty. Crazy is crazy. It doesn't matter what nationality or what laws are in place.

I don't want this guy to see the outside of a jail cell though. If they can add time by adding bogus charges such as littering, then I hope they do.

Drolgin, earlier you said that 6 counts of a crime isn't added consecutively, but does 6 different crimes give the ability to add years to sentencing?
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Aabidano »

This guy was a whacko, and would have done what he did no matter the potential penalties.

Harsh penalties, long prison terms, the death sentence have no deterrent value at all. It's a fallacy. It makes the assumption that criminals are rational beings, which they are not; at the time of the crime if nothing else.

Shorter terms serve to both punish and rehabilitate prisoners. Longer terms institutionalize them and turn them into animals. Over time just making things worse due to family impacts, etc... The US is a long way down this road and can't be used in comparison with almost anyplace else.

I am pro death penalty for things like pre-meditated murder, rape and the like. Mainly just to remove the person from circulation as they've proven themselves to be of no current or future value to a civil society, Similar to putting a vicious dog to sleep.

Life in prison is a much crueler penalty than death, and not at all a deterrent except to those who wouldn't "normally" do it anyway.
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miir wrote:Harsh sentences are simply not a deterrent.
The death penalty only serves to satiate an individuals desire for revenge.
That is the bleeding heart liberal view. The death penalty makes sure that these assholes don't get the chance to kill again.
The first part he's right on the money, other than making a great "I'm tough on crime" speech; mandatory sentencing, etc... simply corrupts what is supposed to be a "justice" system.

Do you get pissed off when a high school girl gets kicked out for the rest of the school year for having an aspirin? It's the same path.

The second part, as implemented he's correct as well, but as I said I do support the death penalty. It's theoretically cheaper if nothing else, assuming of course that we actually ever executed people.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by masteen »

While his prison term might not be what the pro-death crowd here might like, you can count on this man never being free again. He'll matriculate straight from jail to a secure loony bin.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Aabidano »

masteen wrote:While his prison term might not be what the pro-death crowd here might like, you can count on this man never being free again. He'll matriculate straight from jail to a secure loony bin.
Would be my expectation as well. Basically every nation has a "until no longer a danger to society" type of sentence available.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

He should be put to death humanely. Give him the needle. The only other option I'd be OK with is if they wanted to experiment on him a bit before putting him to death.

Dogs get put to sleep for biting someone. This guy killed 70+.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by masteen »

And by doing so, become what you despise. The Norweegees actually know how to maintain a civilized society.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

masteen wrote:And by doing so, become what you despise. The Norweegees actually know how to maintain a civilized society.
"what have you done for me lately?"

If you follow that, Norway is the deadliest country in the world for recent events. It's time to monitor the county and see if any other activity takes place. Right now, You have 911, Oslo Nut, Oklahoma City..and if you're looking at only domestic terrorism, Norway is at the top of the list for largest terrorist death toll event.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by masteen »

Immediate gratification is no way to run a society.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Hesten »

Just curious, do you guys go "hmm, i feel like killing someone today, and if i didn't risk getting the death penalty, i would do it"?`
And if you dont, how many people do you seriously think like this......my best guess is noone, death penalty is NOT a deterrent.
Its revenge, thats all.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Aabidano »

Hesten wrote:Its revenge, thats all.
To an extent yes, what is the chance of ever re-integrating this guy into society though? That should be the goal of a justice system, not the petty revenge that delights some people so much.

Locking him up forever would seem to be more inhumane than death.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by masteen »

Aabidano wrote:Locking him up forever would seem to be more inhumane than death.
Killing a criminal is much more expensive then life in prison, when all costs are taken into account. This is the main reason I oppose it.

Secondary, but relevant, is that you cannot UNkill someone. With all the rampant corruption in pretty much every government entity from city up, combined with the structural racism that is still clinging to the judicial, I am simply not real comfortable with the death penalty as deterrent.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

masteen wrote: Killing a criminal is much more expensive then life in prison, when all costs are taken into account. This is the main reason I oppose it.
We need to cut costs on how much money it takes to kill someone then.

Cut out the trial or something.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by masteen »

Winnow wrote:
masteen wrote:Killing a criminal is much more expensive then life in prison, when all costs are taken into account. This is the main reason I oppose it.
We need to cut costs on how much money it takes to kill someone then.
Cut out the trial or something.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

I'm not a fan of the U.S. prison system or legal system at all...but in this case, the U.S. approach would handle it better imo. He did not commit his crime in the U.S. however, so he will not be punished as such. Someone who commits a crime like this is not going to be deterred by any sort of law or punishment possible, but if this man ever sees freedom again then THAT will be a crime against humanity.

When you go on a killing spree you should lose any semblance of freedom. I would say you should be put to death, but honestly, that's the easy way out. Live the rest of your life without freedom and have to think about what you have done. Maybe he will eventually even feel true remorse.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Boogahz »

Interesting interview and timeline with the head of the police unit that arrested Breivik at spiegel.de: http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 26,00.html
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by kyoukan »

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:I'm not a fan of the U.S. prison system or legal system at all...but in this case, the U.S. approach would handle it better imo. He did not commit his crime in the U.S. however, so he will not be punished as such. Someone who commits a crime like this is not going to be deterred by any sort of law or punishment possible, but if this man ever sees freedom again then THAT will be a crime against humanity.

When you go on a killing spree you should lose any semblance of freedom. I would say you should be put to death, but honestly, that's the easy way out. Live the rest of your life without freedom and have to think about what you have done. Maybe he will eventually even feel true remorse.
People like this are wasted in prison. He is obviously insane and society would benefit more if he were studied by mental health professionals. It is way more important to learn why people derail like this and possibly determine warning signs or gain knowledge about their insanity. It is the same way with Loughner in the USA. Would you really care if he went to a mental institution over a prison? The man exhibited signs of erratic behavior for months before he shot up that Safeway. I would much rather see people like that studied rather than just letting them sit in jail forever. It is obvious they will never get out, so why waste the opportunity to learn from them? Seung-Hui Cho killed himself in prison. That kid was a walking billboard for chronic mental health problems and the system utterly failed to recognize the signs of his forthcoming meltdown. These people exhibit patterns of behavior that are similar in nature. What is the point of just punishing these people instead of learning how to prevent it from happening again?

He also has a larger chance of never being released if he stays in a mental hospital.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Canelek »

Well, hello there stranger!
en kærlighed småkager
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Funkmasterr »

kyoukan wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:I'm not a fan of the U.S. prison system or legal system at all...but in this case, the U.S. approach would handle it better imo. He did not commit his crime in the U.S. however, so he will not be punished as such. Someone who commits a crime like this is not going to be deterred by any sort of law or punishment possible, but if this man ever sees freedom again then THAT will be a crime against humanity.

When you go on a killing spree you should lose any semblance of freedom. I would say you should be put to death, but honestly, that's the easy way out. Live the rest of your life without freedom and have to think about what you have done. Maybe he will eventually even feel true remorse.
People like this are wasted in prison. He is obviously insane and society would benefit more if he were studied by mental health professionals. It is way more important to learn why people derail like this and possibly determine warning signs or gain knowledge about their insanity. It is the same way with Loughner in the USA. Would you really care if he went to a mental institution over a prison? The man exhibited signs of erratic behavior for months before he shot up that Safeway. I would much rather see people like that studied rather than just letting them sit in jail forever. It is obvious they will never get out, so why waste the opportunity to learn from them? Seung-Hui Cho killed himself in prison. That kid was a walking billboard for chronic mental health problems and the system utterly failed to recognize the signs of his forthcoming meltdown. These people exhibit patterns of behavior that are similar in nature. What is the point of just punishing these people instead of learning how to prevent it from happening again?

He also has a larger chance of never being released if he stays in a mental hospital.
Holy.Fucking.Shitballs. :shock:

P.S. - I agree.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Funkmasterr wrote:
kyoukan wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:I'm not a fan of the U.S. prison system or legal system at all...but in this case, the U.S. approach would handle it better imo. He did not commit his crime in the U.S. however, so he will not be punished as such. Someone who commits a crime like this is not going to be deterred by any sort of law or punishment possible, but if this man ever sees freedom again then THAT will be a crime against humanity.

When you go on a killing spree you should lose any semblance of freedom. I would say you should be put to death, but honestly, that's the easy way out. Live the rest of your life without freedom and have to think about what you have done. Maybe he will eventually even feel true remorse.
People like this are wasted in prison. He is obviously insane and society would benefit more if he were studied by mental health professionals. It is way more important to learn why people derail like this and possibly determine warning signs or gain knowledge about their insanity. It is the same way with Loughner in the USA. Would you really care if he went to a mental institution over a prison? The man exhibited signs of erratic behavior for months before he shot up that Safeway. I would much rather see people like that studied rather than just letting them sit in jail forever. It is obvious they will never get out, so why waste the opportunity to learn from them? Seung-Hui Cho killed himself in prison. That kid was a walking billboard for chronic mental health problems and the system utterly failed to recognize the signs of his forthcoming meltdown. These people exhibit patterns of behavior that are similar in nature. What is the point of just punishing these people instead of learning how to prevent it from happening again?

He also has a larger chance of never being released if he stays in a mental hospital.
Holy.Fucking.Shitballs. :shock:

P.S. - I agree.

Was the "holy fucking shitballs" because Kyou posted or because you agreed?

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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Jice Virago »

I agree in principle, but the mouth breathers will never let this short of thing stand. The amount of premeditation and the degree to which he taunted his victims pretty much makes him the very deffinition of evil. On the one hand, we study him and a bunch of other nutjobs and armchair anarchists see him as some sort of celebrity and try to follow in his footsteps, because he gets to spend the rest of his life in a rubber room with three squares and an army of doctors paying attention to his every word. On the other, we lose a good chance to develop a case study on this level of sociopathic behavior and possibly learn some of the early warning signs. The question is, can the early signs be screened in a manner that is not inherrently invasive to the average citizens privacy and do we end up with a "Minority Report" style situation if it is indeed the case that these people can be detected early on? I am not sure.

There is a lot of valuable information to be gained by studying this asshole, but then the trade off might not be worth it. If they do go the rubber room route they damn well better media blackout the fucker so other whackjobs don't get "inspired" by him.
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Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Jice Virago »

Double Post.....
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Winnow »

Kill the bastard as cheaply as possible. The DJIA plunged 500+ points today. We have more important things to worry about than how to properly treat a mass murderer. You can pamper psychos when the economy is in better shape. Until then, crack open his fucking skull and stick his brain in a freezer.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Aabidano »

Winnow wrote:The DJIA plunged 500+ points today.
Saw someone saying it was the beginning of a normalization after years of manipulated increases.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Aabidano wrote:
Winnow wrote:The DJIA plunged 500+ points today.
Saw someone saying it was the beginning of a normalization after years of manipulated increases.
More tax cuts for the rich should fix this problem in no time!
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Aslanna »

Fairweather Pure wrote:More tax cuts for the rich should fix this problem in no time!
Dude.. Just give them some time. I'm sure they'll work!
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Jice Virago wrote:I agree in principle, but the mouth breathers will never let this short of thing stand. The amount of premeditation and the degree to which he taunted his victims pretty much makes him the very deffinition of evil. On the one hand, we study him and a bunch of other nutjobs and armchair anarchists see him as some sort of celebrity and try to follow in his footsteps, because he gets to spend the rest of his life in a rubber room with three squares and an army of doctors paying attention to his every word. On the other, we lose a good chance to develop a case study on this level of sociopathic behavior and possibly learn some of the early warning signs. The question is, can the early signs be screened in a manner that is not inherrently invasive to the average citizens privacy and do we end up with a "Minority Report" style situation if it is indeed the case that these people can be detected early on? I am not sure.

There is a lot of valuable information to be gained by studying this asshole, but then the trade off might not be worth it. If they do go the rubber room route they damn well better media blackout the fucker so other whackjobs don't get "inspired" by him.
This is pretty much my exact, conflicted opinion on the subject. Take the Nazis for example. After Nuremberg, they fucking killed them all. Was that for the best? Wouldn't it have been better to study and pick these guys apart for the rest of their lives and learn how these handful of men helped turn a nation to war and murder? Would it have been a better punishment for these men to witness the world change and vilify every single thing they ever represented? Or was it best just to kill them all and be done with it, avoiding any and all chance for these men to leak poison from within their cells and spread the seeds of doubt and perhaps gain followers? I wrestle over what may have been the better choice, but in the end you gotta appreciate a fast and unified solution to simply kill these obviously guilty men.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

All a bunch of hogwash. They should put down the mass murdering nutjob and study the people who knew him and knew how crazy he was, but were too apathetic to speak to authorities. In all of these cases, people knew these people had major issues and no one could be bothered to get them help.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by kyoukan »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:All a bunch of hogwash. They should put down the mass murdering nutjob and study the people who knew him and knew how crazy he was, but were too apathetic to speak to authorities. In all of these cases, people knew these people had major issues and no one could be bothered to get them help.
This kind of stuff is why normal people think you are stupid and worthless, by the way.
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Re: 80+ Shot dead in Norway and no post?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Well idiot liberals might.....but I am pretty sure I can live with that. Of course none of them have the heart to take any tough actions anyway. The Arizona clown was turned down by the Army because of mental issues. He was removed from the school for mental issues. Wouldn't one think that maybe SOMEONE would stand up and push the issue and maybe get him help? Of course not....this is America where it couldn't possibly be his fault.
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