Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

What do you think about the world?
Post Reply
User avatar
Aslanna
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 12379
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm

Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Aslanna »

The Electronic Frontier Foundation filed a brief in a federal Colorado court that defendant Ramona Fricosu—accused of real estate fraud—has a 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination in providing authorities with an encrypted password.


Ramona Fricosu stands accused of real estate fraud and is on trial in a Colorado. The prosecution has asked the Court to demand Fricosu offer up her encrypted password, to which she and her Colorado Springs attorney Phil Dubois have refused on the grounds that would violate her 5th Amendment right to self-incrimination.

This has made the case most interesting and, indeed, a highly critical juncture in the surveillance state that is currently being built around technology. If Dubois can resist the Department of Justice’s efforts to acquire Fricosu’s encrypted password, he will have proven that the encrypted password is equivalent to Fricosu’s mind and thus protected by the 5th Amendment.

Dubois summed it up nicely in an interview with CNET by stating the government’s intent thusly, “Make her decrypt the drive for us, and we won’t tell the jury that she’s the one who decrypted the drive for us. But we want to use everything we find in there against her.”

Dubois added:

“The government is trying to expand its power. Back in the PGP days, the government was trying to prevent, futilely, the spread of encryption software around the world. Now they’re trying to increase their power by narrowing the Fifth Amendment. Like the others, the Fifth Amendment is aimed directly at the government, primarily the executive. The executive wants, as it always has and always will, to narrow the Fifth Amendment and thereby increase its own power.”

The Department of Justice’s argument is based on the All Writs Act, which dates to 1789 (amended several times thereafter), which states, “The Supreme Court and all courts established by Act of Congress may issue all writs necessary or appropriate in aid of their respective jurisdictions and agreeable to the usages and principles of law.”

In other words, the writ grants the court power to enforce an order by making sure all necessary actions are carried out to ensure its execution; which is to say, it was hardly designed to enforce the deliverance of an encrypted password unto the government.

The government has issued Fricosu limited immunity, but as the EFF website states, it “has not given adequate guarantees that it won’t use the information on the computer against her.”

In response, the EFF issued an Amicus Curiae Brief—a ‘friend of the court,’ or party that provides information to a court in the decision of a matter—arguing:

The Fifth Amendment generally protects a person from being compelled to give testimony that would incriminate her. (United States v. Hubbell, Fisher v. United States)… The privilege is limited to testimonial evidence, or a communication that “itself, explicitly or implicitly, relate a factual assertion or disclose information.” (Doe v. United States)… Put a different way, the privilege protects the “expression of the contents of an individual’s mind.“

[T]he Supreme Court has explained that a witness might be “forced to surrender a key to a strongbox containing incriminating documents,” but not “compelled to reveal the combination to a wall safe.” …Forcing an individual to supply a password necessary to decrypt data is more like revealing the combination to a wall safe than to surrender a key: the witness is being compelled to disclose information that exists in her mind, not to hand over a physical item.

The EFF then concludes in the Amicus Curiae Brief:

The government is overreaching to try to compel Fricosu to supply an encryption password that they hope will give them access to the full contents of a laptop. The Court should decide this important constitutional question in a way that recognizes the substantial benefits of encryption to safeguard the security and privacy of digital information stored on computers. New technologies present new challenges for law enforcement, but this reality does not justify the abandonment of well-established constitutional protections that secure individuals’ rights. Decrypting data is an act with testimonial aspects that are protected by the Fifth Amendment. The government cannot identify the evidence it hopes to find with any specificity, and it has not offered Fricosu immunity coextensive with her Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination. For all the reasons discussed above, the government’s application should be denied.

The critical point is that the encryption password exists in Fricosu’s head and that to offer it up is to self-criminate—the fact that Fricosu might have committed a number of fraudulent acts is irrelevant.

Let’s hope that Dubois prevails and the court agrees. If not, expect an appeal.
I find this story interesting. Should a password (or encryption key) be protected under the 5th Amendment? My opinion is yes! If they can brute force it by all means go ahead but someone shouldn't be required to turn it over. Yes I realize this could let undesirables get away with rather some unsavory crimes but that's the price you pay to live in a free society.
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?

--
User avatar
Jice Virago
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1644
Joined: July 4, 2002, 5:47 pm
Gender: Male
PSN ID: quyrean
Location: Orange County

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Jice Virago »

If there was evidence in a lock box, the courts can compell the person to produce the key for said lock box. I don't see a distinction here, as its just a different kind of key. The password is not being used in open testimony and not going to, of itself, be an incrimination against the defendant. Too much room for abuse by people with access to top notch encryption software (read rich bankster bastards), when the average person would not have access to something of this nature.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
User avatar
masteen
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8197
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:40 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by masteen »

Jice Virago wrote:If there was evidence in a lock box, the courts can compell the person to produce the key for said lock box. I don't see a distinction here, as its just a different kind of key. The password is not being used in open testimony and not going to, of itself, be an incrimination against the defendant. Too much room for abuse by people with access to top notch encryption software (read rich bankster bastards), when the average person would not have access to something of this nature.
This point is rebutted in the quoted text:
[T]he Supreme Court has explained that a witness might be “forced to surrender a key to a strongbox containing incriminating documents,” but not “compelled to reveal the combination to a wall safe.” …Forcing an individual to supply a password necessary to decrypt data is more like revealing the combination to a wall safe than to surrender a key: the witness is being compelled to disclose information that exists in her mind, not to hand over a physical item.
Unless you're arguing that a password is more similar to a key for a lock box than to a combination to a safe. Which would just be stupid.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Jice Virago
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1644
Joined: July 4, 2002, 5:47 pm
Gender: Male
PSN ID: quyrean
Location: Orange County

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Jice Virago »

Missed that part, but its equally stupid. Plus neither analogy really holds because you can physically force entry into either item, but not really so much with encrypted data. In any case, its just a great way for people doing shady shit with money to hide their bullshit.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
User avatar
masteen
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8197
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:40 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by masteen »

Yeah, but not really. Unless the corporate personhood assclownery reaches a truly ludacrist level and company property is given these same protections, this sort of malfeasance will always be fairly limited in size.

I'm willing to tolerate that level of corruption in order that my personal liberties be protected.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Jice Virago
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1644
Joined: July 4, 2002, 5:47 pm
Gender: Male
PSN ID: quyrean
Location: Orange County

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Jice Virago »

Exhibit A- Citizens United
You already have an assinine ruling that makes corperations count as people under the law.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
User avatar
masteen
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8197
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:40 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by masteen »

I agree it was a stupid ruling (corporations = people and cash = speech), but it's scope is fairly limited. It's not relevant to this particular discussion, YET. I have no doubt the neocons and their sociopath overlords have plans to expand this, but I cannot and will not let fear of that possibility curtail my personal freedoms.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Zaelath
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4621
Joined: April 11, 2003, 5:53 am
Location: Canberra

Re: Fifth Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Zaelath »

Jice Virago wrote:Too much room for abuse by people with access to top notch encryption software (read rich bankster bastards), when the average person would not have access to something of this nature.
This is patently false...

Regardless, the 5th is stupidly written and applied, but so are contempt laws that compel people to answer questions. I guess it depends if you think Minority Report was a utopian or dystopian future, I tend toward the later.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
Post Reply