Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

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Nick
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Nick »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Nick wrote:The people who are trying to distance Palin and the insane right wing rhetoric from this are just being willfully blind. It's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "waaaaa I can't hear you."

Palin's latest gibberish, about a "blood libel" is a further crass comment, and I'm amazed she has any support in the US. She really is a nasty cunt of a woman.

The notion that "both sides" are to blame is a peculiarly American argument. And it's one only cowardly centrists are mentalist right seem to get off on. You can assert it until you're blue in the face, but you'd still be wrong. The right/tea party are the ones bringing waving their dicks/guns around the American political landscape - no one else.

If you were not such a complete fucktard, you would have read plenty to tell you that HE WAS ANTI_GOVERNMENT AND NOT RIGHT WING AT ALL. He had no radical right or left wing affiliation and from accounts posted all over the fucking internet, he actually had liberal leanings. Since I know I am just a frothing at the mouth redneck, maybe your stupid mad at the world retarded ass will believe the guy's own friend

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/re ... elevision/
rizona massacre gunman Jared Loughner's downward spiral may have been touched off by a broken high school romance and fueled by drug use -- but it was not politically motivated, according to his best friend in high school.

Zach Osler, in an interview Wednesday with ABC's "Good Morning America," said: "He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right."

Media speculation swirled after Loughner allegedly opened fire at a Tucson rally last Saturday, critically wounding Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 13 others and killing six. Immediately, the Tucson sheriff and liberal pundits and lawmakers chimed in that the shooting somehow was politically motivated and a result of the extreme rhetoric being used by conservatives such as Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

But Osler said Loughner wasn't shooting at people, "he was shooting at the world."

Osler said he instead suspects that Loughner was motivated by a documentary called, "Zeitgeist: The Movie," which slams currency-based economics.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/re ... z1AqrYkKNb
Liberal leanings? You obviously haven't the vaguest idea what a Liberal is.

I'm aware that a severely mentally ill young man carried out this horrible violence, and not Sarah Palin or the Tea Party. All the same, whether you like it or not, this killer, these events and the threats from the far right are connected. I think the point that you, and many other people are missing, is that while Jared Lee Loughner may not have had specific similarities with your common tea party mentalist, the tea party, and elements in the American far right, have plenty of similarities with him.

There are plenty of people beyond the left who find the violent rhetoric to be unsavoury and counter productive. Or that bringing guns to a march may be legal in some places, but it's still a dick move. The fact that the fringe right are so quick to go on the defense is evidence enough, really. A case of "methinks the lady doth protest too much."
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Spang »

Aabidano wrote:To those who say this is the end of Palin's political career, I doubt it.
Palin will always have the Palin-Loyalist vote, roughly the same percentage of people who supported Bush as he was departing the White House. But that's about it.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Spang »

Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Winnow »

Spang wrote:Also, A damn fine speech.

It as ok. Perhaps Obama should have become a minister instead of president. He sure can't get anything concrete done but he's a good motivational speaker.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Aabidano »

Spang wrote:
Aabidano wrote:To those who say this is the end of Palin's political career, I doubt it.
Palin will always have the Palin-Loyalist vote, roughly the same percentage of people who supported Bush as he was departing the White House. But that's about it.
Agreed, but them plus a disgruntled middle could be enough. Of course right now I think most in the middle are more scared of the tea party than annoyed with Obama.
Winnow wrote:
Spang wrote:Also, A damn fine speech.
It as ok. Perhaps Obama should have become a minister instead of president. He sure can't get anything concrete done but he's a good motivational speaker.
He has actually gotten some things done, not the flagship items though. At least not in a way that matters, the repeal of DADT is a good example. Makes a good newsbite and that's about it, people will forget about it and the military will continue to throw out gays.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by masteen »

The numbers of people working for small companies who have gotten insurance because of the tax cut implemented by ObamaCare are pretty impressive, and this is 3 years before the "stick" portion of that legislation kicks in.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Chidoro »

miir wrote:
Chidoro wrote:not sure what Palin's target map has to do with this.
The map had gun crosshairs directly on Giffords' disctrict and listed her name.
The Don't retreat, instead RELOAD quote was directed at targeted Democratic congressmen/women... including Giffords.
If it was just a conincidence (which it probably was), why did Palin's people take down the website shortly after the shooting?
I guess we should also ban violent video games because a minority of nuts can't control themselves
Well if a video game encouraged players to 'take out' real people, perhaps there might be some cause for concern.
Really? Guess the terms kill or murder or destroy should be completely removed from sports talk.

Who cares why Palin removed her map. Having targets in crosshairs is very common in business and politics. Big deal. So everyone gets to completely absolve themselves of personal responsibility because of what somebody else said? It's really sickening to think I have to get a watered down messages because of extremely rare cases. What's the point of free speech then?

Why are people always trying to bring down the majority of people just so the one in a million piece of garbage might be less likely to be a piece of garbage?
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Chidoro »

Boogahz wrote:
Nick wrote:The people who are trying to distance Palin and the insane right wing rhetoric from this are just being willfully blind. It's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "waaaaa I can't hear you."
Yeah, you would know all about that. That is all you do while you are dripping foam from your mouth.
Quoted for truth

You really are a fool Nick.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

New info that I saw today....one of the people who helped subdue this clown has a CCW and was carrying his gun. He got there after all the shots had been fired and saw someone with the gun with the slide locked open and decided to not shoot and just grab the gun. Good choice on his part since the other people had already gotten the gun away from mister nutjob and the guy holding the gun at that point was another bystander that was helping subdue him. Good time to point out that in any altercation, you better be 1000% certain of the situation before you ever use deadly force.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof ... cnn?hpt=T2


I like how those two idiots are trying to lead him into answering questions the way they want them answered. He does a very good job of swatting them aside.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Boogahz »

that can't be true. We've all been told repeatedly how CCW holders are violent blood-crazed lunatics who look for an excuse to inject lead into people.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Fairweather Pure »

It does take a particular frame of mind for an individual to believe that they need to carry around a hidden, loaded handgun at all times. I'm all for gun rights, but I cannot wrap my head around that mentality. I looked into it and thought "Why would I want to carry a gun around" and wrote it off. Besides, there are so many little bylaws and questionable logic in the laws (at least here in Michigan) that it just looks like another way for the police to fuck you if they wanted too. Some day I may get the permit just for the sake of having it, but there is no circumstance I could ever see where carrying one around was a good idea.

It's nice that the guy didn't shoot the wrong guy, but the argument still stands, and came awfully close to proving the point in this instance. More people with guns in this type of situation is just asking for trouble. I would be really curious to see how the NRA would've reacted if a CCW carrier had shot the wrong guy in this situation. The excuses and deflection would've been epic!
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

More people with guns and the wrong mindset in this type of situation is just asking for trouble.
I fixed that for you. I would stand by my belief that IF this guy had been in direct proximity when the shooting started that the nutjob in question would have been stopped sooner. As it was, he was in a store nearby and came out to investigate. Just judging by his responses to the CNN people, I am fairly certain this guy didn't just walk in and grab a CCW off the counter. He has had some type of training somewhere in the past.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Boogahz »

Fairweather Pure wrote:It does take a particular frame of mind for an individual to believe that they need to carry around a hidden, loaded handgun at all times. I'm all for gun rights, but I cannot wrap my head around that mentality. I looked into it and thought "Why would I want to carry a gun around" and wrote it off. Besides, there are so many little bylaws and questionable logic in the laws (at least here in Michigan) that it just looks like another way for the police to fuck you if they wanted too. Some day I may get the permit just for the sake of having it, but there is no circumstance I could ever see where carrying one around was a good idea.

It's nice that the guy didn't shoot the wrong guy, but the argument still stands, and came awfully close to proving the point in this instance. More people with guns in this type of situation is just asking for trouble. I would be really curious to see how the NRA would've reacted if a CCW carrier had shot the wrong guy in this situation. The excuses and deflection would've been epic!

It might take a particular frame of mind, but the fact that it is not the same as yours does not make it bad/wrong. How does the "arguement still stand" based on this situation? At what point did it come awfully close? Was it just the fact that there was another gun present? If so, then you should argue that the people should not have attempted to even disarm him (the shooter), because the cops would shoot them instead. I mean, the situation would have come awfully close when they showed up carrying guns as well, right? This man did what he should have. He assessed the situation, saw the status of the threat, and he responded appropriately.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

I did not get from his post that he thinks that CCW should not be allowed due to his not being a person who wanted to carry....but that it was just not right for HIM. I get that and understand there really is a fairly high percentage of people who really would/should not carry. An example of someone that should not carry is someone who would only pull it out to stop a threat, but would not be willing to use it if needed. You would be surprised how many people have that particular mindset.

My personal opinion would be that probably only 5-10% of the entire population currently is adept enough with a handgun, is willing to take a life in defense of themself or another, is stable enough to not be pulling a firearm for the right reason, can pass the background checks, and is willing to put themselves on file with the gubment to carry it.

The one place I break from a lot of the 2nd Amendment activists and other true gun nuts is that I do believe you should get SOME kind of training to get a CCW license....and that is not because I make some money from teaching it. I charge not even 1/3 of what most places in the state charge, because I do not care about the money aspect of it as much as I want to make sure that my family, friends, and friends of friends get what I really believe is the important parts of the training that I really hammer into them.

The guy in this situation actually handled it perfectly. He had the firearm at the ready, but did not have it in plain view. He assessed the situation and went hands-on because at that time he felt that the threat was not existant. Now if he had been there from the start and witnessed the actual shooting, he would have been justified in shooting whether that gun was locked open or not.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Boogahz »

That's why I was asking the questions :P

I know that CCW isn't for everyone, and I also feel that it shouldn't be available for many that have it. Personally, I do not feel the need for it myself, but I understand some people having it. Any shooting I do anymore is on my mom's land well outside of town. She's the one with the CCW permit! heh

I think it is amazing that Giffords' condition is as good as it is. Sitting up and dangling her legs off of the bed. Moving all limbs. Opening eyes...damn!
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Neroon »

A good example of a case for a CCW in my experience was back in the early 90's. I worked as a manager for an arcade chain. My best friend was a manager of one of our "beach" stores, and it would not be unusual to make deposits of $22k....in cash. Eventually they wisened up and had an armored car come directly to the store. But before that he carried, and I didn't blame him.

My store was only like $8-10k a week cash deposits, and I almost got one myself. The only gun I have at the moment is my old Ruger 1022 rifle, but it has been at my parents since I moved out over 20 years ago, so it doesn't really count I suppose. I understand people wanting them though.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Aabidano »

It's easy to get one in FL, I went as far as getting the paperwork at one point and said "meh, why bother?". Never got around to it, mainly as I never go anyplace where I'd feel in the least bit to be needing it.

Hardly even shoot anymore since moving down from the panhandle, the couple ranges around are a pain in the ass.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

Siji wrote:I'm with Kilmoll 100% on this issue. This isn't a result of lax gun control or extended clips or anything other than a fucking retard who, by one of those spiffy gun laws, shouldn't have had a gun in the first place.

As mentioned above, he could have done equal or more damage with a car or a pipe bomb or any number of things.
Actually it wasn't the law's fault, it was the fact that he was never reported or had his mental illness on record.

I'm not really a fan of restricting firearms but I will fully support better background checks and a hefty tax on firearm purchases to fund them.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

Fairweather Pure wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-1 ... fords.html



Just... wow.
Panic buys, not really that suprising. Ammo jumped up a lot here too, I went target shooting two weeks ago and they are almost certainly price gouging.

26 bucks for 20 rounds of 7.62x39.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

I've said it before and it's still true: the worst thing to happen to US politics is the institutionalized two-party system. All block politics accomplishes is reducing governing to a us (as in "we", not as in United States)-vs-them mentality. Sports teams. Bullshit. Fearmongering. Alienation. Verfremdung.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by masteen »

Yeah, especially given how the two entrenched parties keep erecting artificial barriers to entry. You pretty much need corporate sponsorship to run for office above the local level. And that is just all kinds of fucked up.
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Re: Don't retreat, instead RELOAD!

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

thanks for not pooping on my state anders <3<3<3
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