An act of war?

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Kilmoll the Sexy
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Her actual platform is not all that crazy...it is really pretty much in line with a normal conservative platform....but her personal views certainly are. The big thing for getting votes is going to be if people believe that her personal agendas are what she will attempt to legislate with. I would not be happy if she attempted to legislate morality, but how do we know that ahead of time? Do we really think Obama would have been voted in if the independent voters thought he would completely ignore the will of the people?

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Metanis »

Gzette wrote:Point taken. But I question the wisdom of nominating under-qualified people with questionable intelligence out of fear-based politics.

Your lesson in one word: Obama.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Nick »

For context - when people outside the US read the likes of the gibberish from the two posters above, it saddens us that a supposedly cool nation is being destroyed by such idiocy.

It's a big old shame, and a pity they aren't stifled by a louder antagonism.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

Nick wrote:For context - when people outside the US read the likes of the gibberish from the two posters above, it saddens us that a supposedly cool nation is being destroyed by such idiocy.
Keeping mind mind what you see reported outside the US is a condensation of what was initially collected and promulgated based on it's ability to sell advertising.

Somewhat like the common knowledge in the middle east, that all Americans have been divorced, have mistresses, etc...

America for export doesn't really match reality.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Do we really think Obama would have been voted in if the independent voters thought he would completely ignore the will of the people?
Post an example and let's see if you know how politics work.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Gzette »

Metanis wrote:
Gzette wrote:Point taken. But I question the wisdom of nominating under-qualified people with questionable intelligence out of fear-based politics.

Your lesson in one word: Obama.
Flawed comparison. One-term senator, Harvard educated juris doctor, career in public service vs. a woman who got her BA in english last year from Fairleigh Dickinson University (gee only took 20 years) dfault on mortgage loan, unpaid taxes, and little on resume besides talking about witchcraft, sex, and lord of the rings for random shows. Impressive :roll:
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Re: An act of war?

Post by masteen »

Gzette wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Gzette wrote:Point taken. But I question the wisdom of nominating under-qualified people with questionable intelligence out of fear-based politics.

Your lesson in one word: Obama.
Flawed comparison. One-term senator, Harvard educated juris doctor, career in public service vs. a woman who got her BA in english last year from Fairleigh Dickinson University (gee only took 20 years) dfault on mortgage loan, unpaid taxes, and little on resume besides talking about witchcraft, sex, and lord of the rings for random shows. Impressive :roll:
Yeah, looking at a person who took 20 years to pay (not pay back, to fucking PAY) her college tuition bills, who defaulted on a single mortgage, and who can't figure out how to pay her taxes to fix our current budget problems seems... how should I phrase this?... FUCKING INSANE.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

It seems par for the course when the administration appoints Timothy Geitner to be the Secretary of the Treasury.....

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Gzette »

again, the comparison is retarded. par for the course ... you're the people that support her. So dog Geitner, that's fine. But do you realize how utterly moronic you sound to peg one person for problems with the IRS and then support another. Fuck, that's just the whole goddamned philosophy of the fucking republican party. Cast stones when it suits you, circle the wagons otherwise. It's no non-sensical it makes we want to vomit. Put on the blinders boys!
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

Attacking your critics is far easier than responding rationally. Obama hasn't alienated his supporters quite as thoroughly as first term Clinton did but he's getting there. Of course Clinton's response to criticism wasn't to call the critics (who put him in office) effin retards either.

I'm wondering what direction the far right will take when their candidates don't deliver. In part because they can't, partly because what they're preaching isn't what they're actually after. I assume they'll blame it on the "evil lefties\fornicators\godless heathens", who comprise everyone who doesn't agree with them.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Gzette wrote:again, the comparison is retarded. par for the course ... you're the people that support him/her. So dog [insert name here], that's fine. But do you realize how utterly moronic you sound to peg one person for problems with the IRS and then support another. Fuck, that's just the whole goddamned philosophy of anyone who votes with a party. Cast stones when it suits you, circle the wagons otherwise. It's no non-sensical it makes we want to vomit. Put on the blinders boys!


I went ahead and fixed that for you.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Aabidano wrote:Attacking your critics is far easier than responding rationally. Obama hasn't alienated his supporters quite as thoroughly as first term Clinton did but he's getting there. Of course Clinton's response to criticism wasn't to call the critics (who put him in office) effin retards either.

I'm wondering what direction the far right will take when their candidates don't deliver. In part because they can't, partly because what they're preaching isn't what they're actually after. I assume they'll blame it on the "evil lefties\fornicators\godless heathens", who comprise everyone who doesn't agree with them.
I think they will deliver some of what they are after....at least temporarily. The biggest push here is going to be fiscal cutbacks. New blood coming into the Senate and House will do that, I have no doubts. My real question is, how long will they do that before they start bowing to special interests and pork barrel spending for pet projects?

As long as they don't blame the previous administration for every single thing that is wrong, they will be ahead of this one.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Leonaerd »

The biggest push here is going to be fiscal cutbacks. New blood coming into the Senate and House will do that, I have no doubts.
The pork will oink them from day one.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

To function in the purpose they're leading their followers to believe they are would require far greater numbers than they're able to get into office in the short term. Being junior members, they've got no clout at all either.
Which one am I supposed to support as the voice of reason here? It's like an escaped lunatic got into a fight with the guy who shouts religious-minded obscenities on street corners.
This made me snicker :)
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Nick »

Keeping mind mind what you see reported outside the US is a condensation of what was initially collected and promulgated based on it's ability to sell advertising.

Somewhat like the common knowledge in the middle east, that all Americans have been divorced, have mistresses, etc...

America for export doesn't really match reality.
Are you basing this on anything other than pulling a statement out of your arsehole?

No, I didn't think so.

Everyone's got the internet, not everyone's relying on their bloody Imam for information outside America.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

I'm saying that the news is not representative of most people in America, mainly as they aren't interesting enough to report on until they shoot their neighbors on a slow middle east news day. The Metanii are a very small but loud subset that pop up, like their predecessors most will either move to the middle and keep going, or get burned out when their movement fails and fade back into the background.

The news in the US is... well not news really. You got faux news with the bizarro land version on one side, MSNBC and CNN with another version that's frequently just as bad but spinning things from a different perspective. Many days you'll get better US reporting out of the BBC or Al Jezeera than you will from US sources.

While the internet has made "the news" available everywhere, it hasn't made it any less biased. Looking at reporting on the US and events here while in other countries I usually wonder what country they're reporting on, because it isn't the one I live in.

Similar to Japan as presented and Japan as practiced. The two only superficially match.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Metanis »

Leonaerd wrote:
The biggest push here is going to be fiscal cutbacks. New blood coming into the Senate and House will do that, I have no doubts.
The pork will oink them from day one.
I'm confident the electorate will be disappointed in the Republicans they elect this year. They won't elect enough Republicans to provide the 2/3 majority needed to override presidential vetoes. There will be all-out war between Congress and the President that will result in grid-lock for the next 2 years. Very little will actually get done. Meanwhile the economy will slightly improve even while the federal debt continues to mushroom.

At the end of the day, 2 years of grid-lock is a major improvement over 2 years of hard-left Democratic Pelosi-Reid tyranny.

So as we enter the 2012 election season the messaging wars will be intense. That bodes well for my side because Obama has become such a crashing bore that NO ONE can stand to listen to him.

The election will be decided by which candidate irritates the fewest voters. I'm thinking Sarah Palin can win that contest. A lot of liberal heads are going to explode if they have to watch her through an entire election cycle! :)

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Re: An act of war?

Post by miir »

At the end of the day, 2 years of grid-lock is a major improvement over 2 years of hard-left Democratic Pelosi-Reid tyranny
It boggles the mind that so many Americans think that the Obama and the democratic party are 'hard left' or 'socialist'.
On many issues the Democrats are actually further right than the Canadian right (Conservative party).

I also find it hillarious that Socialism is the new Communism in the US.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Boogahz »

miir wrote:
At the end of the day, 2 years of grid-lock is a major improvement over 2 years of hard-left Democratic Pelosi-Reid tyranny
It boggles the mind that so many Americans think that the Obama and the democratic party are 'hard left' or 'socialist'.
On many issues the Democrats are actually further right than the Canadian right (Conservative party).

I also find it hillarious that Socialism is the new Communism in the US.
Communism was the new Socialism, so it has just gone full circle!

No way in hell what we're experiencing is "hard left."

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Gzette »

The election will be decided by which candidate irritates the fewest voters. I'm thinking Sarah Palin can win that contest. A lot of liberal heads are going to explode if they have to watch her through an entire election cycle! :)
No way she could ever win. Plus I think she prefers to be a king maker rather than answer tough questions. She's a diva, not a politician

Another thing, if there is this crushing gridlock between the pres and the lege, well then the Bush tax cuts will go bye-bye and the deficit will actually improve. How's that for irony?
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Gzette »

miir wrote:
At the end of the day, 2 years of grid-lock is a major improvement over 2 years of hard-left Democratic Pelosi-Reid tyranny
It boggles the mind that so many Americans think that the Obama and the democratic party are 'hard left' or 'socialist'.
On many issues the Democrats are actually further right than the Canadian right (Conservative party).

I also find it hillarious that Socialism is the new Communism in the US.
I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't think anything is "hard left" either. But the dildoheads repeat anything they're spoon fed from Rush. As the right gets more extreme, the moderate left looks fringe-ish? Stupid, but maybe that's what Teabaggers and the Religious Right really feel.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

miir wrote:
At the end of the day, 2 years of grid-lock is a major improvement over 2 years of hard-left Democratic Pelosi-Reid tyranny
It boggles the mind that so many Americans think that the Obama and the democratic party are 'hard left' or 'socialist'.
On many issues the Democrats are actually further right than the Canadian right (Conservative party).

I also find it hillarious that Socialism is the new Communism in the US.

Here is the problem with that....THIS IS NOT FUCKING CANADA. This country was founded on a lot of things and those things were written down. None of them included socialised fucking medicine or any of a number of other bullshit liberal fucktarded crap that has come down the pike. According to the principles this country was founded on and the groundwork laid by the people who came here to get away from your European nightmare of leadership, yes it is hard left.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Bubba Grizz »

Can I ask a question? What is so horrible about socialism? Serious question. Can someone please define it in terms that are understandable. At this point I don't see a reason why protecting our people with affordable medication is such a bad thing? Am I wrong?

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Re: An act of war?

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Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:THIS IS NOT FUCKING CANADA. This country was founded on a lot of things and those things were written down. None of them included socialised fucking medicine or any of a number of other bullshit liberal fucktarded crap that has come down the pike. According to the principles this country was founded on and the groundwork laid by the people who came here to get away from your European nightmare of leadership, yes it is hard left.
You stupid, stupid fuck.
You think the constitution and bill of rights contain the FULL list of everything that is "the USA" and nothing beyond that should count? Did you really use that incredible dumbass argument? I'm pretty sure it didn't mention porn, the internet, aircraft carriers or the fire service either. Better get rid of those as well.

You got away from the European Nightmare of an absolute monarchy 150 years before anyone had thought of the world "socialist". That's about as far from liberal as it's possible to be. Your country's founders were fucking liberals you moron.

You don't want your money spent on a fairer, more effective healthcare system and you'd rather the poor/unlucky just died. That's your right but crying and attaching all these inaccurate labels is just silly and damages your arguments. I think having that opinion makes you a morally worthless, mean-spirited, selfish wanker, if you're honest enough to admit it. If you genuinely think it's going to lead to a Stalinist state and destroy Christianity and the entire USA then you're just a moron.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

You are right. I believe we should abolish the welfare system as it exists here now and let the lazy die off. If it is people trying to work, then there should be options. If you have no desire to work or get an education, then I care very little about you being alive. Societies only work when every able bodied person in that society makes an effort to contribute and that is not happening in this country. It will NEVER happen if we convert further towards a socialist state.

It amazes me how most of the liberal fucks from the different countries like to chime in when their interactions are all internet based. You might have a different take on things if you got to see and hear the attitudes of some of our finer people firsthand. Stick to dealing with the problems in your own shithole country.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by miir »

I believe we should abolish the welfare system as it exists here now and let the lazy die off.
What about the old?
The sick?
The injured?

Yea it's easy to say that social programs should be abolished when you're a healthy, able bodied member of the workforce.
Last edited by miir on September 24, 2010, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Boogahz »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:You are right. I believe we should abolish the welfare system as it exists here now and let the lazy die off. If it is people trying to work, then there should be options. If you have no desire to work or get an education, then I care very little about you being alive. Societies only work when every able bodied person in that society makes an effort to contribute and that is not happening in this country. It will NEVER happen if we convert further towards a socialist state.

It amazes me how most of the liberal fucks from the different countries like to chime in when their interactions are all internet based. You might have a different take on things if you got to see and hear the attitudes of some of our finer people firsthand. Stick to dealing with the problems in your own shithole country.

So, you WANT Socialism.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by miir »

Actually, his attitudes kinda resemble those of an anarchist.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Fairweather Pure »

A society cannot exist if people only care about themselves.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

miir wrote:
I believe we should abolish the welfare system as it exists here now and let the lazy die off.
What about the old?
The sick?
The injured?

Yea it's easy to say that social programs should be abolished when you're a healthy, able bodied member of the workforce.
The old, sick, injured and crazy all fall under social security for the most part. While I do know folks who are on SS due to alcoholism I know a lot more who are there due to workplace injuries and plain old "shit happens" stuff that is no fault of their own.

I can agree with his point on welfare to a degree. That said, even if his oft referred to third generation, 500lb transsexual crack smoking mother of 12 was the norm, I'd still support welfare to keep from throwing the baby out with the bathwater. While something needs to be done, abolishing it isn't a good choice. Fighting the root of poverty is.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Fairweather Pure wrote:A society cannot exist if people only care about themselves.

That is exactly right. The problem with our version of capitalism is that we threw in touches of socialism. With the structure we have in place, it is to encourage free markets and you (theoretically) should get out of the market the value of the work you put in. That assumes everyone that is able bodied (which fuckface Miir completely ignored in my first post...imagine that) is working or willing to work. Now I am sure most normal people would agree with this so far.....

Now those who are unable to work (the elderly, the disabled etc...and let me state that being fat is NOT being disabled or handicapped) are taken care of with money that is put forth by those who are able to work. That comes in forms of taxes. This is realistically as simple as any tribe living in Africa. They take care of each other as a community.....if someone that is able bodied just refuses to work, they get jack and shit. There is no welfare for them....you work or you die.

Our problem is that we take care of the criminals, we take care of the lazy, we take care of those who want to work the system for a free ride. That is not the way a capitalist society is drawn up to work. It was never meant to be like that and it sure as fuck is not working now.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Our problem is that we take care of the criminals, we take care of the lazy, we take care of those who want to work the system for a free ride. That is not the way a capitalist society is drawn up to work. It was never meant to be like that and it sure as fuck is not working now.
True enough, but you have to do something to break the cycle that's placed those people in that position. Most of them are no more capable of performing a non-menial job in modern society than my cat, and they've been convinced they're too good for manual labor. "Punishing" the parents also impacts the children, and you end up with another set of similar issues to what you had in the first place.

One my my neighbors busted his butt driving a truck everyday and wanted to know how to get a job like mine, "playing on the computer from home all day" (I've been mostly VO since 2001). He didn't understand that just like anything else, you have to start at the front.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by masteen »

Aabidano wrote:One my my neighbors busted his butt driving a truck everyday and wanted to know how to get a job like mine, "playing on the computer from home all day" (I've been mostly VO since 2001). He didn't understand that just like anything else, you have to start at the front.
It all starts with having a little curiosity about how things work. It still amazes me how most people have zero interest in the how and why of things.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

I agree with you as well Aab. Do I have a 100% guaranteed to work answer? Probably not. The problem exists and most of us that live here and have any intelligence know this is a problem and that giving out more freebies is not the way to make it better. Do not get me wrong....I do NOT think the liberals are 100% at fault. The conservatives have also allowed jobs to slip out of this country...particularly in the manufacturing industry which would put a lot of people out of work that really don't have skills suited for things other than manual type labor. I believe one of the things we really need to do is tax imported goods to make US manufactured goods a viable option. Could that raise prices? Yep. Would that be good for us at this very moment? Probably not. In the long run it would put people in this country back to work.

on the other front, if we ended welfare for able bodied people entirely, would it force people to rethink whether they are too good to do manual labor that they would not otherwise do? Damn right it would if they wanted to be alive.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by miir »

OK, some serious questions...

Other than health care reform, what else has the Obama administration done that could be considered 'hard left'?

Where in the US constitution does it say that all Americans should not have access to affordable health care.

And why are so many Americans so terrified of of anything that's the slightest bit socialist?
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Xatrei
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Xatrei »

They're afraid because they're conditioned to be afraid. Most of them don't have even a basic understanding of what socialism is (hint for the information impaired: it's not something for nothing).
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Metanis
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Metanis »

Compulsion.

If you and your buddy get together and shake me down you are thugs and bullies and petty thieves.

Now, throw some rigged elections and some capital D's after your names and supposedly it's OK? But, you're still thieves and bullies. And your intentions don't matter one whit.

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Re: An act of war?

Post by Aabidano »

Socialized medicine if you want to call it that makes fiscal sense, both from the perspective of the working people whose costs in both taxes and overall healthcare spend go down, and to those who don't have healthcare for whatever reason and whose care is already being paid for by our taxes regardless.

Bending over to the GOP and turning it into a huge win for the insurance industry is.... Well I've no idea what to call it, but it certainly isn't socialism, or communism. Or capitalism. What do you call a corn-holing of epic proportions?

Offhand most of the other things pointed to as socialist and aimed at Obama predate his administration, excepting the latest round of stimulus.

Metanis & Co are being pushed by a bogeyman that doesn't really exist into supporting one who really does and will screw them in the end, given the opportunity.

Socialism as a theory is fine, in practice it hasn't worked out too well yet. The social democratic states seems to have a decent balance.
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Noysyrump
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Noysyrump »

Didnt you dumbasses have this fight already?
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Re: An act of war?

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We're recycling.
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Tyek »

Xatrei wrote:They're afraid because they're conditioned to be afraid. Most of them don't have even a basic understanding of what socialism is (hint for the information impaired: it's not something for nothing).

I agree Xatrei, and I am for some sort of socialist program. I just have an issue with busting my ass and sharing the rewards with those who don't. In a strictly socialist situation there seems to be no reward for hard work and most people, by nature, are lazy. They will do enough to get by and the hard working types will get to work harder, but with no special financial incentive. I don't know many completely socialist nations and ideologically it sounds great. Every person works for the greater good, but people are just not wired that way.

Killmoll, I do not think the US has the market covered on lazy homeless people. There are a certain percentage in each population that may be able bodied, but are just batshit insane.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon

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Metanis
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Re: An act of war?

Post by Metanis »

If you take a really global strategic viewpoint the human race is actually doing pretty damn well. Take the really long view and assume we need to experiment to ensure our species survival and the number of the cultures and societies we have today bodes well for our continued existence. Yes the organism is sick in some ways (Militant Islam for example), but we live in amazing times. Here in the West especially, even the poor are really well off! A century ago the poor starved, now not so much.

So we argue the good fight about degrees of separation on the continuum. So long as we don't repeat the disasters of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao I'm a happy camper.

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