Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Aabidano
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Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Aabidano »

"Everyone is selling up the little they have and leaving," said Villasenor, 31, who is headed for Pennsylvania. "We have no alternative. They have us cornered."

The two women are among scores of illegal immigrant families across Phoenix hauling the contents of their homes into the yard this weekend as they rush to sell up and get out before the state law takes effect on Thursday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsN ... 3220100725

On a human level this really sucks, but I don't know what they expected either. On a practical level it appears to be working as planned.

Until the federal government does something this is going to be repeated all across the US as illegals are pushed from state to state. "Just make them citizens" isn't the answer either.

Ironically being an illegal alien in Mexico is illegal... Or was until very recently.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Kluden »

I can't wait to see how Obama tries to stop the law from going into effect to buy some latino votes. As to the article, I could give two farts and a shit of a care for illegal immigrants and their "problems"...just like I don't give a shit for any criminal.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

thats quite exaggerated
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Kluden wrote:I can't wait to see how Obama tries to stop the law from going into effect to buy some latino votes. As to the article, I could give two farts and a shit of a care for illegal immigrants and their "problems"...just like I don't give a shit for any criminal.
There's nothing illegal about crossing the border, but nice try at rationalised racism.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Racism...laughable. Whatever makes you feel more righteous, go ahead and accuse the rest of us of whatever motivator you want. I just want everyone paying taxes like the rest of us for the services they take advantage of while illegally living and working here...in other words, I want them to go thru the process set forth to be a legal, tax paying, resident of the US. Not racist, but I will concede to being bigoted towards folks who cheat the system and break the law...or criminals if you prefer.

edit: actually, it is illegal to cross the border without authorization & inspection...so...
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Kluden wrote:Racism...laughable. Whatever makes you feel more righteous, go ahead and accuse the rest of us of whatever motivator you want. I just want everyone paying taxes like the rest of us for the services they take advantage of while illegally living and working here...in other words, I want them to go thru the process set forth to be a legal, tax paying, resident of the US. Not racist, but I will concede to being bigoted towards folks who cheat the system and break the law...or criminals if you prefer.

edit: actually, it is illegal to cross the border without authorization & inspection...so...
Based on what statute?

So you're in favour of open borders as long as they pay taxes?
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Just a quick google search, leads to wikipedia...and their sources.
It is illegal to enter the United States without inspection or authorization from government officials.[7] The illegal entry of non-nationals into the United States is a misdemeanor according to the Immigration and Nationality Act, which prohibits non-nationals from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer, and also prohibits non-nationals from eluding inspection by immigration officers.[8]
Congressional Research Service, The Library of Congress. 2006-04-06. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33351.pdf. Retrieved 2008-08-16. "The law prohibits aliens from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer (i.e., a port of entry). It also prohibits any alien from eluding immigration officers."
I happily accept all migrant people seeking employment, or a better life, that does so legally, and respects and obeys the immigration laws set forth. Do the process fairly and legally, and no one has problems. Of course, fairly and legally ensures they pay taxes as well on the paychecks they earn, like a the rest of us...

I'm not sure what "open borders" means to you, so I cant agree or disagree with that statement. What I'm "OK" with is the system AS IT IS NOW...but unfortunately, its not enforced. Arizona is now enforcing the system the federal government already has in place. So again, I fail to see the issue with their new state level laws to ensure the enforcement of Federal level immigration laws.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Ashur »

Kluden wrote:So again, I fail to see the issue with their new state level laws to ensure the enforcement of Federal level immigration laws.
The stated concern is racial profiling of Hispanics. Not sure how you could miss that. :)
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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I thought the law required that all police officers inquire about status after pulling someone over for a traffic law infringement, regardless of race?

Is there a different system you would suggest for keeping everyone in line and legal in a way that doesn't racially offend anyone? I'm not sure there is a way, especially if you are looking at a state that borders a hispanic country...it will always look like racial profiling thanks to statistics, no?
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Zaelath »

Kluden wrote:Just a quick google search, leads to wikipedia...and their sources.
It is illegal to enter the United States without inspection or authorization from government officials.[7] The illegal entry of non-nationals into the United States is a misdemeanor according to the Immigration and Nationality Act, which prohibits non-nationals from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer, and also prohibits non-nationals from eluding inspection by immigration officers.[8]
Congressional Research Service, The Library of Congress. 2006-04-06. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33351.pdf. Retrieved 2008-08-16. "The law prohibits aliens from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer (i.e., a port of entry). It also prohibits any alien from eluding immigration officers."
I happily accept all migrant people seeking employment, or a better life, that does so legally, and respects and obeys the immigration laws set forth. Do the process fairly and legally, and no one has problems. Of course, fairly and legally ensures they pay taxes as well on the paychecks they earn, like a the rest of us...

I'm not sure what "open borders" means to you, so I cant agree or disagree with that statement. What I'm "OK" with is the system AS IT IS NOW...but unfortunately, its not enforced. Arizona is now enforcing the system the federal government already has in place. So again, I fail to see the issue with their new state level laws to ensure the enforcement of Federal level immigration laws.
None of what you quoted contains any law that makes it illegal. There's a lovely essay by a group of idiots about what you're doing to stop immigration that use the common "illegal immigrant" term a lot without acknowledging it's a rhetorical term with no basis in law. In fact, the Cuban Wet Free/Dry Feet policy would clearly be illegal in other parts of the law if it were illegal to enter the country at other than a checkpoint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy

"open borders" only has one definition that I'm aware of; you allow anyone to enter the country.
I happily accept all migrant people seeking employment, or a better life, that does so legally
To translate: I happily accept some few migrant people that the government has determined is the maximum we can accept

You may object to the idea that protecting your resources and economy by limiting migration is racism, but I would tend to disagree.

I don't think it's a particularly unusual form of racism, most people ascribe to it, but I still think you need to reassess the whole "any criminal" rationalisation.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Ashur »

Kluden wrote:I thought the law required that all police officers inquire about status after pulling someone over for a traffic law infringement, regardless of race?

Is there a different system you would suggest for keeping everyone in line and legal in a way that doesn't racially offend anyone? I'm not sure there is a way, especially if you are looking at a state that borders a hispanic country...it will always look like racial profiling thanks to statistics, no?
Just telling you what the concern was...
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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I don't understand why it is so hard to believe that walking across the border, without giving the feds an opportunity to inspect you and your baggage, is illegal? I know you don't want it to be true, but it is. Avoiding border patrols and proper inspection to enter this country makes you a criminal in this country.
8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
Pretty sure that closes the door on the "rhetorical" argument with the term illegal immigrant, yes?

I'm sorry that we only hand out certain numbers of visas and green cards, etc, each year. that really sucks. but breaking the law is not the right way to go about changing it either. I'm not interested in helping those numbers change, so I won't be calling up my congressman and senators to give an opinion either way. Any US citizen is welcome to call theirs and impress upon them the need to allow more resident statuses to be issued...this would be the right way to enact change...not breaking the law.

Part of being a US citizen is understanding that laws and appeals take forever. And there is the right way to do things, which is getting your government representative to fight for what you want. If you want more visas, then you need your congressman or woman to put forth a bill to enact the change. It takes time, but its the right way to go about it. If it gets shot down on the floor, well, tough shit...cause that's the US process. Don't like that process? well, get it changed!

That's the unfortunate part of a democracy. Its not for everyone.

Just to be clear, I hate Glenn Beck as much as you do, apparently, and I voted for Obama, but I'm a moderate fiscal conservative.

I disagree with the "racism" approach solely on my stand against reverse racism that this country is currently in. Only in the US is it a big deal to have a black president. The race issue, when talking about immigration, is completely unavoidable. You're from a country with predominant race A, well, if that's not the predominant race in the US, its racism to say "Sorry, we have no more visas left"? Its unavoidable, so its not the true definition of racism, and you and everyone else knows it.

My friend from Palestine has been dealing with this shit every year...renewal after renewal. Its costing her a lot of money, each year. She did it the legal way though to get here...works a job...pays taxes...etc etc. I watch her do it, and this is another reason I won't ever feel bad for folks who decide to break the law, cheat the system, take the easy way out, etc.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Aabidano »

Kluden wrote:I disagree with the "racism" approach solely on my stand against reverse racism that this country is currently in. Only in the US is it a big deal to have a black president. The race issue, when talking about immigration, is completely unavoidable. You're from a country with predominant race A, well, if that's not the predominant race in the US, its racism to say "Sorry, we have no more visas left"? Its unavoidable, so its not the true definition of racism, and you and everyone else knows it.
The really ironic part is that he could not possibly have been elected PM, President, whatever in (almost) any other country. Despite the endless criticism of the US and it's race issues.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Aabidano wrote:The really ironic part is that he could not possibly have been elected PM, President, whatever in (almost) any other country. Despite the endless criticism of the US and it's race issues.
Of course he couldn't because no other country would allow someone who's (allegedly) American to run for president/prime minister/etc. :D
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Zaelath »

miir wrote:
Aabidano wrote:The really ironic part is that he could not possibly have been elected PM, President, whatever in (almost) any other country. Despite the endless criticism of the US and it's race issues.
Of course he couldn't because no other country would allow someone who's (allegedly) American to run for president/prime minister/etc. :D
We would.

I think he'd probably win in a landslide here if he wants to have a shot after his second term is up. Pretty much every election here has been won by the more charismatic candidate.....
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Kluden wrote:I don't understand why it is so hard to believe that walking across the border, without giving the feds an opportunity to inspect you and your baggage, is illegal? I know you don't want it to be true, but it is. Avoiding border patrols and proper inspection to enter this country makes you a criminal in this country.
Unless you're Cuban, or can make the case that you're otherwise an asylum seeker. Neither of which is recognised in that statute..

It's an interesting statute and it's hard to find if it's ever been enforced, or if perhaps it's been made moot by other law; do you really jail people for 6 months when you could just throw them back over the fence? Where? There's lots of hits on the goog for jailed illegal aliens, but all of them for the commission of some other crime. Apparently Texas and a few others want to deport them instead of paying for their incarceration.

Plus, you almost made a point, then the whole worry about inspecting baggage just made it laughable. What baggage?
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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It'd be a big deal if a black guy got elected president of Russia.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Kluden »

You asked, I posted it. So do we agree now that the term ILLEGAL immigrant actually means they are criminals for breaking a law? Avoiding inspection is clearly not the legal way to come into this country.

The Cuban thing is a whole different bag of pooduckens. political assylum and refugees from countries we are still at war with, embargoing, whatever, fall under all kinds of separate laws.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Yeah, we can agree on that part.
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

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Kluden wrote:The Cuban thing is a whole different bag of pooduckens. political assylum and refugees from countries we are still at war with, embargoing, whatever, fall under all kinds of separate laws.
We really need to drop that with Cuba. There were promising signs early in Obama's term but I haven't heard anything about it since other than a bill introduced in Feb to end the travel ban. It's been 50 years. Let it go already!
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Re: Migrants sell up, flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

Post by Kluden »

On a somewhat stupid side track to this thread...I was channel flipping yesterday, and that movie with Angelina Jolie was on, Changling, and some cop arrested this kid who was living on his own, in the US from Canada...called him an illegal immigrant and I laughed, made me think of this thread. The movie's setting was like 1930 in LA.
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