The no-vote vote is coming
- miir
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
How the fuck would you know anything about that Fair?
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
miir wrote:Jeez man, you're all over the place... It's like you're just flailing wildly.
This healthcare reform is far from perfect but it's a step in the right direction... anything is better than the status quo.
No it is not. You do not just take something that is not working and then throw shit at it that is flawed and say you did something. There is nothing in this bill that is going to actually address health care costs for people....at all. The real effects are going to be seen as costs that will be passed on to the consumer. The middle class will pay for this in the end as that is whose premiums will go up. The upper class will bear the brunt of the taxes to pay for this certainly, but the middle will be paying higher premiums that won't hurt the upper class and the lower class will get stipends for.
They still do not have a viable method to pay for this except by raising taxes across the board. You imbeciles act like I am the sole person in the country agaisnt this.....when in reality there were enough Democrats against it that they had to be bought off or threatened by Obama and Pelosi to vote their way....and MSNBC's poll last night was actually removed after the numbers showed that close to 60% of the people were angry that this passed with 32% thinking it was good. That is not just one voice on a liberal message board bitching.....that is a LOT of pissed off people that are unhappy about a Congress and president going against the people they represent to pass bloated spending bills in extremely shady manners.
- Forthe
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
So how is everyone feeling this morning now that you are all communists?
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Polls don't have consequences, elections do.Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:They still do not have a viable method to pay for this except by raising taxes across the board. You imbeciles act like I am the sole person in the country agaisnt this.....when in reality there were enough Democrats against it that they had to be bought off or threatened by Obama and Pelosi to vote their way....and MSNBC's poll last night was actually removed after the numbers showed that close to 60% of the people were angry that this passed with 32% thinking it was good. That is not just one voice on a liberal message board bitching.....that is a LOT of pissed off people that are unhappy about a Congress and president going against the people they represent to pass bloated spending bills in extremely shady manners.
All posts are personal opinion.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
And who is more motivated to vote in mid-terms? You know without a doubt that the same base that voted Obama in is not going to go and vote for rich old white guys of either party....which means the motivated voter base in this election is angry white people from the right and middle.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Polls now are pretty meaningless.
The people most likely to vote on these polls are the morons who are afraid that heathcare reform is going to turn the US into a communist/socialist state.
In a few weeks/months when the fear-mongering subsides, rational Americans are going to see that this will have an overwhelmingly positive impact on the quality of life for the average American citizen.
The people most likely to vote on these polls are the morons who are afraid that heathcare reform is going to turn the US into a communist/socialist state.
In a few weeks/months when the fear-mongering subsides, rational Americans are going to see that this will have an overwhelmingly positive impact on the quality of life for the average American citizen.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Forthe wrote:So how is everyone feeling this morning now that you are all communists?
I feel like I should be reciting prose in a smokey basement in Moscow while drinking vodka and diddling Natasha.
So, pretty good! How are you, comrade?
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Said the socialist. Don't assume you know anything about America and the foundations of hard work, liberty, capitalism and freedom. You don't. Your support of socialism and communism is repulsive. How you could support a system of historical failure is mind boggling.miir wrote:Polls now are pretty meaningless.
The people most likely to vote on these polls are the morons who are afraid that heathcare reform is going to turn the US into a communist/socialist state.
In a few weeks/months when the fear-mongering subsides, rational Americans are going to see that this will have an overwhelmingly positive impact on the quality of life for the average American citizen.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
What's the estimated wait time for a loaf of bread today?
Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
- miir
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
As many have said...
In any other country, Obama would be viewed as center-right.
Only in the US does the center-right equate to socialism/communism/fascism.
When Social Security was passed in 1935, there was shouts of socialism and communism.
People screamed socialism and communism when they pushed through Medicare in 1965.
The US is no more a socialist state in 2010 than it was in 1934.
Repeating something over and over and over will not make it come true.
In any other country, Obama would be viewed as center-right.
Only in the US does the center-right equate to socialism/communism/fascism.
When Social Security was passed in 1935, there was shouts of socialism and communism.
People screamed socialism and communism when they pushed through Medicare in 1965.
The US is no more a socialist state in 2010 than it was in 1934.
Repeating something over and over and over will not make it come true.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
SS and Medicare are also wrong. You repeating it over and over as being okay does not make it so.miir wrote:As many have said...
In any other country, Obama would be viewed as center-right.
Only in the US does the center-right equate to socialism/communism/fascism.
When Social Security was passed in 1935, there was shouts of socialism and communism.
People screamed socialism and communism when they pushed through Medicare in 1965.
The US is no more a socialist state in 2010 than it was in 1934.
Repeating something over and over and over will not make it come true.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
LOL, you're not even trying.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
What's sad, Midnyte, is your lack of understanding of socialism, its ideals or its history. You conflate Stalinist and Maoist totalitarianism (which are, in reality, a form of state capitalism that exchanged the bourgeoisie with a buerocratic/political elite), European social democracies and even fundamentally capitalist welfare states with any sort of progressive ideology, no matter where it actually falls along the political continuum. Clue: Just because it called itself "socialist" doesn't mean it was socialist in practice (e.g. the quite fascist and thoroughly anti-communist National Socialists of Germany). Fundamentally, socialism is a worker's movement built upon the ideal that workers reap the benefits of work, not the investor class endeavoring to extract every possible penny from his worker drones. You don't even have an essential understanding of what it is, yet you throw the label around so easily it's laughable. Turn off the talk radio, stop reading the tea bagger blogs and try read a book or two. They're available at your local socialist library.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Socialism is the road to Communism. America's Democrat Party is forcing USA away from it's Capitalist roots towards a more 'entitlement' society. I don't like it. I am voicing my disgust with this.Xatrei wrote:What's sad is Midnyte's lack of understanding of socialism, its ideals or its history. You conflate Stalinist and Maoist totalitarianism (which are, in reality, a form of state capitalism which simply replaced the bourgeoisie with the buerocratic elite), European social democracies and even fundamentally capitalist welfare states with any sort of progressive ideology, no matter where it actually falls along the political continuum. Clue: Just because it called itself "socialist" doesn't mean it was socialist in practice (e.g. the quite fascist and thoroughly anti-communist National Socialists of Germany). You don't even have a fundamental understanding of what it is, yet you throw the label around so easily it's laughable. Turn off the talk radio, stop reading the tea bagger blogs and try read a book or two. They're available at your local socialist library.
Clue: I don't give a fuck how you change definitions and call back to how one country version of socialism isn't exactly how USA's version of socialism is. You know what the fuck I am saying. If you don't, then kindly shut the fuck up.
I warned all of you assholes about where this was all going over the past 10 years. Every little sign that came up, I protested about and referenced the "big picture". You poked fun and fell ignorant. It might not be affectign you now, but it will. The destruction of America mgiht make some of you giddy now, but that's only because you are retarded young fools who can't foresee the consequences of killing the greatest thing earth had. I hope for your sake we can still help you the next time tragedy strikes.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
No claims of socialism or anything else here. I just don't give a shit about anyone else, for the most part, and if a single extra penny of mine will go to any form of medical expenses that aren't mine I consider it a catastrophic failure.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Exactly.Socialism is the road to Communism.
The right has been crying socialism for over 75 years!
The US is no closer to communism now than it was in 1935..
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
First off, true socialism, where it has been implemented, has generally been successful as a sustainable long term economic model. When its geared towards protecting an aristocracy (USSR, USA Bank and SNL Bailouts, ect) it has generally failed due to the grotesque greed of an influential few. You want to talk about an entitlement society, how about the Bush tax cuts or the current situation in Wall Street (which was partially Clinton's fault, but mostly happened on the Neocon watch)? The fact that these insurers are raking in record money while doing everything in their power to deny coverage that was paid for should piss you off way more than Barack the evil Muslim Jew Negro taking away the Neocon freedom to destroy the middle class in this country. You are just regurgitating shit you heard on Glen Beck and not even trying hard to disguise it.
Most of the rest of the advanced western world has socialized medicine in some form. Welcome to the modern age Midnyte. What you fail to understand, in your Beckian Commie Racist paranoia, is that any time you allow basic services of nessecity to opperate on a for proffit basis, ass clownery is the direct result. Case in point, look at what happened when Enron ran the energy in Cali or the what the entire pharmacutical industry is doing. Don't worry, your rich pals will still have their exclusive doctors, just now when Joe Six Pack gets busted up in an accident, he won't go down the tubes and take his family with him.
Never have I seen so many people acting against their own self interests as with this subject. Hillbilly fucktards have no clue about half of the buzzwords they are tossing around, anyhow. All they know is some damn darkie pushed a librul agenda on "their" USA and is going to come for their guns next.
Most of the rest of the advanced western world has socialized medicine in some form. Welcome to the modern age Midnyte. What you fail to understand, in your Beckian Commie Racist paranoia, is that any time you allow basic services of nessecity to opperate on a for proffit basis, ass clownery is the direct result. Case in point, look at what happened when Enron ran the energy in Cali or the what the entire pharmacutical industry is doing. Don't worry, your rich pals will still have their exclusive doctors, just now when Joe Six Pack gets busted up in an accident, he won't go down the tubes and take his family with him.
Never have I seen so many people acting against their own self interests as with this subject. Hillbilly fucktards have no clue about half of the buzzwords they are tossing around, anyhow. All they know is some damn darkie pushed a librul agenda on "their" USA and is going to come for their guns next.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight Eisenhower
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight Eisenhower
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
At least I can understand and (to a certain extent) accept Funk's reason... but the cries of socialism I find fucking hillairous.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
We were actually much closer back then. There was a burgeoning socialist worker's movement at the time. Much of FDR's pre-war domestic policy was aimed at stifling the growth of these movements.miir wrote:Exactly.Socialism is the road to Communism.
The right has been crying socialism for over 75 years!
The US is no closer to communism now than it was in 1935..
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Yeah, well, I expect you to personally pave or hire someone to pave every mile of road you drive on from now on, too then. Lazy fuckers suck, but stable societies are built on sharing the burden, at least to some extent, when it comes to basic services. That is the basis for a strong middle class, which was the cornerstone of the ideal 1950s era existance that the radical right seems to want to aspire too. The irony being, of course, that the people in control of the right are best served by eliminating that very middle class, as it improves their ability to herd the sheep.Funkmasterr wrote:No claims of socialism or anything else here. I just don't give a shit about anyone else, for the most part, and if a single extra penny of mine will go to any form of medical expenses that aren't mine I consider it a catastrophic failure.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight Eisenhower
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight Eisenhower
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
ACCORNXatrei wrote: We were actually much closer back then. There was a burgeoning socialist worker's movement at the time. .
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Eh? I'm not commenting on the governments level of involvement in this, in case that wasn't clear. The comparison you are making is absurd.Jice Virago wrote:Yeah, well, I expect you to personally pave or hire someone to pave every mile of road you drive on from now on, too then. Lazy fuckers suck, but stable societies are built on sharing the burden, at least to some extent, when it comes to basic services. That is the basis for a strong middle class, which was the cornerstone of the ideal 1950s era existance that the radical right seems to want to aspire too. The irony being, of course, that the people in control of the right are best served by eliminating that very middle class, as it improves their ability to herd the sheep.Funkmasterr wrote:No claims of socialism or anything else here. I just don't give a shit about anyone else, for the most part, and if a single extra penny of mine will go to any form of medical expenses that aren't mine I consider it a catastrophic failure.
It's basically forced charity. If you want to donate your money to people who can't afford their medicine/operation/whatever, then more power to you. However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
I'll admit I haven't dug into the details of this bill that was passed, so there is a chance there is something else I dislike about it, but I'll find out soon enough.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Get this though. When you're older/retired/potentially sick and on fixed income, this same system will help you should you need it and you won't have to go work greeter duty at walmart to pay those bills.Funkmasterr wrote:No claims of socialism or anything else here. I just don't give a shit about anyone else, for the most part, and if a single extra penny of mine will go to any form of medical expenses that aren't mine I consider it a catastrophic failure.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
There's a lot of ifs involved there. That would imply this program worked any better than the other shit this country has done that has failed it's old/sickly, and I don't have much faith in my government. That's also assuming that I fall into that situation you mention, which I intend on working my whole damn life to ensure doesn't happen. If it does, I'd really rather get that greeter job myself and not feel carried.Animalor wrote:Get this though. When you're older/retired/potentially sick and on fixed income, this same system will help you should you need it and you won't have to go work greeter duty at walmart to pay those bills.Funkmasterr wrote:No claims of socialism or anything else here. I just don't give a shit about anyone else, for the most part, and if a single extra penny of mine will go to any form of medical expenses that aren't mine I consider it a catastrophic failure.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
What if other government run or assisted services were privatized?Funkmasterr wrote:Eh? I'm not commenting on the governments level of involvement in this, in case that wasn't clear. The comparison you are making is absurd.
It's basically forced charity. If you want to donate your money to people who can't afford their medicine/operation/whatever, then more power to you. However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
Like the police or fire department or maybe the military?
Should they let someone's house burn down because they can't afford fire department insurance?
What if their fire department coverage cap was hit halfway through the fire.. so they just let the other half of the house burn down.
Should someone be denied police assistance because they reached their lifetime claim cap?
If they live in a bad neighbourhood, should they be denied 'police insurance' coverage?
Would that be considered a 'pre existing condition' that would prevent someone from ever getting police coverage?
Sounds pretty fucking ridiculous, doesn't it?
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
You mean like the Senators who passed this bill and will still have the best health care in the country on our dime? If this system is so great, then lets see them utilize it.Don't worry, your rich pals will still have their exclusive doctors
While I agree that privitizing any industry can lead to issues like Enron, I think it is safe to say that most government entities are pretty poorly run and bloated. You don't think there is a big line of the "supporters" of these Senators and Congressmen and women lining up for high paying -no work jobs in the newly developed programs?
If this is truly the end all be all program all governmental workers go on it ASAP, including our illustrious leaders. All appointees to positions in the newly formed or expanded offices need to be background checked, can have no ties to the people who voted for or against it, and should have some previous knowledge. Personally I would like to see someone with Medical backgrounds lead. I would also like to see some successful hospital operators appointed.
If we are going to do this, we need people who understand the true needs of the medical industry and the insurance industry and pharma industry. I want the companies to make a fair profit, so they can continue to run and I want someone watching out for the patients as well and I am guessing it probably is not one of the people pushing hard for this bill or against this bill.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
How would you feel if you were forced to pay for another person's kid's education?Funkmasterr wrote:It's basically forced charity.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Sucks not having health insurance when out of work, disabled or if it is simply too costly (especially with kids and lower income). I make more than most families in that category, and then some. There are some bigass flaws in the new bill, but it is a step in the right direction, imo.
It's not like they are giving health insurance to illegals...
It's not like they are giving health insurance to illegals...
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Tyek wrote:You mean like the Senators who passed this bill and will still have the best health care in the country on our dime? If this system is so great, then lets see them utilize it.Don't worry, your rich pals will still have their exclusive doctors
While I agree that privitizing any industry can lead to issues like Enron, I think it is safe to say that most government entities are pretty poorly run and bloated. You don't think there is a big line of the "supporters" of these Senators and Congressmen and women lining up for high paying -no work jobs in the newly developed programs?
If this is truly the end all be all program all governmental workers go on it ASAP, including our illustrious leaders. All appointees to positions in the newly formed or expanded offices need to be background checked, can have no ties to the people who voted for or against it, and should have some previous knowledge. Personally I would like to see someone with Medical backgrounds lead. I would also like to see some successful hospital operators appointed.
If we are going to do this, we need people who understand the true needs of the medical industry and the insurance industry and pharma industry. I want the companies to make a fair profit, so they can continue to run and I want someone watching out for the patients as well and I am guessing it probably is not one of the people pushing hard for this bill or against this bill.
WHERE DO YOU THINK ENRON LEARNED IT FROM? THE GOVERNMENT!
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
That's very compassionate of you, comrade.Funkmasterr wrote:However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings." - John F Kennedy
- Kilmoll the Sexy
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Canelek wrote:Sucks not having health insurance when out of work, disabled or if it is simply too costly (especially with kids and lower income). I make more than most families in that category, and then some. There are some bigass flaws in the new bill, but it is a step in the right direction, imo.
It's not like they are giving health insurance to illegals...
Not technically....next up is the amnesty plan so all the felons who are here illegally also get coverage! Yay USA!
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
We don't have to be compassionate. It's the calls for compassion that has blinded you all while they steal away our liberties.Xouqoa wrote:That's very compassionate of you, comrade.Funkmasterr wrote:However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
That's comedy gold!Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:We don't have to be compassionate. It's the calls for compassion that has blinded you all while they steal away our liberties.Xouqoa wrote:That's very compassionate of you, comrade.Funkmasterr wrote:However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Well the one fundamental difference here being those have always been things that the government has handled. Also, these "insurances" you are sarcastically point out, already exist. It's called tax.miir wrote:What if other government run or assisted services were privatized?Funkmasterr wrote:Eh? I'm not commenting on the governments level of involvement in this, in case that wasn't clear. The comparison you are making is absurd.
It's basically forced charity. If you want to donate your money to people who can't afford their medicine/operation/whatever, then more power to you. However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
Like the police or fire department or maybe the military?
Should they let someone's house burn down because they can't afford fire department insurance?
What if their fire department coverage cap was hit halfway through the fire.. so they just let the other half of the house burn down.
Should someone be denied police assistance because they reached their lifetime claim cap?
If they live in a bad neighbourhood, should they be denied 'police insurance' coverage?
Would that be considered a 'pre existing condition' that would prevent someone from ever getting police coverage?
Sounds pretty fucking ridiculous, doesn't it?
And yes, I feel that schools/police/whatever should be progressively better for people paying more of said tax.
Yes, I feel that people in New Orleans who didn't own flood/whatever insurance to cover them should just be fucked and living in a shelter somewhere.
Yes I realize I'm an asshole. No I don't care, I dislike people in general, and I'd rather not support them because of it.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Sometimes it is necessary to work towards goals that benefit the whole, rather than just the individual.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:We don't have to be compassionate. It's the calls for compassion that has blinded you all while they steal away our liberties.
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings." - John F Kennedy
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Tyek there is nothing for fed employees to "go on it ASAP". The exchanges are supposed to be modelled after the exchanges the fed employees use to buy private insurance. There is no government run insurance.
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For the dictionary lacking wingnuts here:
"so·cial·ism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."
FRANCE - socialized healthcare system + private healthcare system + socialized insurance
UK - socialized healthcare system + private healthcare system (I believe UK pay for private healthcare OOP)
CANADA - private healthcare system + socialized insurance
Obama's plan has origins from the Heritage foundation. They won't advertise that as the liberals are just starting to calm down now. The only socialism in this plan that I can identify is the government will setup\own\control the exchanges AFAIK. Even then it is a stretch to define it as socialism as there is no requirement for private insurance companies to participate in the exchanges.
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Liberals are arguing the mandate to buy insurance from a private company is fascism. I'd argue they are much closer to the truth than the socialist\communist bullshit and recommend the right attack Obama as a fascist; crazy right and crazy left unite!
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For the dictionary lacking wingnuts here:
"so·cial·ism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."
FRANCE - socialized healthcare system + private healthcare system + socialized insurance
UK - socialized healthcare system + private healthcare system (I believe UK pay for private healthcare OOP)
CANADA - private healthcare system + socialized insurance
Obama's plan has origins from the Heritage foundation. They won't advertise that as the liberals are just starting to calm down now. The only socialism in this plan that I can identify is the government will setup\own\control the exchanges AFAIK. Even then it is a stretch to define it as socialism as there is no requirement for private insurance companies to participate in the exchanges.
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Liberals are arguing the mandate to buy insurance from a private company is fascism. I'd argue they are much closer to the truth than the socialist\communist bullshit and recommend the right attack Obama as a fascist; crazy right and crazy left unite!
All posts are personal opinion.
My opinion may == || != my guild's.
"All spelling mistakes were not on purpose as I dont know shit ." - Torrkir
My opinion may == || != my guild's.
"All spelling mistakes were not on purpose as I dont know shit ." - Torrkir
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Thanks, I try!Xouqoa wrote:That's very compassionate of you, comrade.Funkmasterr wrote:However, I don't give a shit if "they" die of pneumonia in the waiting room of the free clinic.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
And in every other nation with an 'advanced' economy, heathcare is also included.Well the one fundamental difference here being those have always been things that the government has handled. Also, these "insurances" you are sarcastically point out, already exist. It's called tax.
Seriously, the American heathcare system is broken.
The status quo only serves to benefit the insurance companies.
Obama's healthcare reform isn't going to fix healthcare, but it's at least a step in the right direction.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Voluntarily, yes.Xouqoa wrote:Sometimes it is necessary to work towards goals that benefit the whole, rather than just the individual.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:We don't have to be compassionate. It's the calls for compassion that has blinded you all while they steal away our liberties.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Tort reform would have been an amazing FIX. Obamacare is a whole new form of socialized medicine, not a fix. You're wrong.miir wrote:And in every other nation with an 'advanced' economy, heathcare is also included.Well the one fundamental difference here being those have always been things that the government has handled. Also, these "insurances" you are sarcastically point out, already exist. It's called tax.
Seriously, the American heathcare system is broken.
The status quo only serves to benefit the insurance companies.
Obama's healthcare reform isn't going to fix healthcare, but it's at least a step in the right direction.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
I'm not arguing that something needs to change, I'm arguing that enough of my money already goes to broke dead weight in this country, which I don't like, and increasing the amount of my money or pool of dead weight that my money goes to will always be a bad thing in my mind.miir wrote:And in every other nation with an 'advanced' economy, heathcare is also included.Well the one fundamental difference here being those have always been things that the government has handled. Also, these "insurances" you are sarcastically point out, already exist. It's called tax.
Seriously, the American heathcare system is broken.
The status quo only serves to benefit the insurance companies.
Obama's healthcare reform isn't going to fix healthcare, but it's at least a step in the right direction.
I'm all for them making/adjusting laws/policies so that the pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies can't molest us like they are, but that's about it.
I'll clarify this just to further blur peoples view of me. Generally the I want the government to keep their noses out of enterprise and peoples lives in this country, however I actually am not opposed to the government stepping in and telling some companies/industries what they can/can't do/charge, when those companies have consistently over many years proven that they are incapable of or unwilling to be reasonable and responsible. The banks, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies are all in this category right now, imo.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
The SourceQ. But critics of the current system say that 10 to 15 percent of medical costs are due to medical malpractice.
A. That’s wildly exaggerated. According to the actuarial consulting firm Towers Perrin, medical malpractice tort costs were $30.4 billion in 2007, the last year for which data are available. We have a more than a $2 trillion health care system. That puts litigation costs and malpractice insurance at 1 to 1.5 percent of total medical costs. That’s a rounding error. Liability isn’t even the tail on the cost dog. It’s the hair on the end of the tail.
Make love, fuck war, peace will save us.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Generally, I would agree. But that doesn't always cut it.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Voluntarily, yes.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Funk, around 10% of federal spending goes to pay for things like welfare, food stamps, child care assistance, supplemental security payments, earned income tax credits and other public assistance programs for "dead weight". Ten percent. To hear you talk, you'd think that 80% of federal spending was going to "dead weight" and that you're giving a huge chunk of your income to the federal government to do so. I don't know you, but since you're single, I'd be shocked if you were in top 2 (170k+) or 3 (82k+) tax brackets based on the crap you spew here, so you're probably paying 15-25% (perhaps less, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt) to the federal government.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
I don't know where I implied how much goes to said dead weight, I was strictly pointing out that any is too much, imo. I'm almost to the number you put out for the top 3 brackets, but not sure how that's relevant, as again I wasn't putting some kind of limit on how much assistance I feel is too much nor quoting specific amounts/percentages of my money that currently goes to these things.Xatrei wrote:Funk, around 10% of federal spending goes to pay for things like welfare, food stamps, child care assistance, supplemental security payments, earned income tax credits and other public assistance programs for "dead weight". Ten percent. To hear you talk, you'd think that 80% of federal spending was going to "dead weight" and that you're giving a huge chunk of your income to the federal government to do so. I don't know you, but since you're single, I'd be shocked if you were in top 2 (170k+) or 3 (82k+) tax brackets based on the crap you spew here, so you're probably paying 25% or less to the federal government.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
Not really going to see much difference in tax deductions for most people. I believe that higher-end taxable incomes (250K+/household) will be affected.
A good friend of mine relies on state and federal aid to support her family. She is on disability, so cano no longer get another job as a trucker. She made great money while doing that, now she makes it by both by being frugal and with programs available. I feel good knowing her family will get health care under the new program, while she goes back to school to learn a new trade.
She is not dead weight. She is an American and deserves the chance to get back on her feet.
Of course, there are many abusers of the various aid programs, but they should never count against the people that truly deserve and need the help. Any one of us could be put in a similar situation. Working or trying hard doesn't matter when you get T-boned on your way to Rite Aid.
A good friend of mine relies on state and federal aid to support her family. She is on disability, so cano no longer get another job as a trucker. She made great money while doing that, now she makes it by both by being frugal and with programs available. I feel good knowing her family will get health care under the new program, while she goes back to school to learn a new trade.
She is not dead weight. She is an American and deserves the chance to get back on her feet.
Of course, there are many abusers of the various aid programs, but they should never count against the people that truly deserve and need the help. Any one of us could be put in a similar situation. Working or trying hard doesn't matter when you get T-boned on your way to Rite Aid.
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
When you find a way to sort through the people receiving the aid and weed out the people that abuse the programs from those who truly need it, I might change my stance. But until then I'd rather it be an all or nothing thing.Canelek wrote:Not really going to see much difference in tax deductions for most people. I believe that higher-end taxable incomes (250K+/household) will be affected.
A good friend of mine relies on state and federal aid to support her family. She is on disability, so cano no longer get another job as a trucker. She made great money while doing that, now she makes it by both by being frugal and with programs available. I feel good knowing her family will get health care under the new program, while she goes back to school to learn a new trade.
She is not dead weight. She is an American and deserves the chance to get back on her feet.
Of course, there are many abusers of the various aid programs, but they should never count against the people that truly deserve and need the help. Any one of us could be put in a similar situation. Working or trying hard doesn't matter when you get T-boned on your way to Rite Aid.
There also needs to be lines drawn, the amount of times unemployment has been extended is starting to get ridiculous.
Re: The no-vote vote is coming
This is priceless. It may even be a new sig line.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:WHERE DO YOU THINK ENRON LEARNED IT FROM? THE GOVERNMENT!
Poor Midnyte still doesn't understand the conflict of interest inherent in a private medical system. How can patient care be the top priority when by definition, generating shareholder value is the number one responsibility of a corporation?
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Re: The no-vote vote is coming
I understand the frustration, Funk. I am not exactly thrilled to support those that cheat the system either. However, I will not deny hard working Americans the chance to make their dreams happen.
Same for unemployment. I tell ya what, I know so many people that got the shaft during our very recent economic issues it is ridiculous. I was fortunate, but have unemployment balloon from 6 to 18 months would have made all the difference. We are seeing some reduction in unemployment claims here in Oregon, but there are still severe issues accross the country. This is not the fault of the American worker. Why make them suffer because they got caught in the recession?
Also, Tommy and Tammy trailerpark are usually well past the unemployment insurance expiration and living off of homemade shine, brickweed and back-alley handjobs (not taxable).
Same for unemployment. I tell ya what, I know so many people that got the shaft during our very recent economic issues it is ridiculous. I was fortunate, but have unemployment balloon from 6 to 18 months would have made all the difference. We are seeing some reduction in unemployment claims here in Oregon, but there are still severe issues accross the country. This is not the fault of the American worker. Why make them suffer because they got caught in the recession?
Also, Tommy and Tammy trailerpark are usually well past the unemployment insurance expiration and living off of homemade shine, brickweed and back-alley handjobs (not taxable).
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