Honda recall

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/09/autos/h ... htm?hpt=C2

Why did they pick Toyota to hammer with the retardation across the new channels? One would think that a half million cars with faulty airbags that can cause death would be just as newsworthy of Toyota having accelerator issues.

For the record, EVERY manufacturer and every model has had some type of recall. Some are a hell of a lot more dangerous than others. The real problem with the Toyota issue is that most of the idiots who actually got hit with this issue and it caused them to wreck should not have been on the road. I blame our lax policies on who should be licensed more than anything else for all the traffic issues and accidents here. If you are not smart enough to put a vehicle into neutral if an accelerator gets stuck, then you have no business being behind the wheel.

[miir]

I also read that if one were to apply the brakes if the accelerator sticks, the vehicle will come to a stop in a safe, reasonable distance.

[Canelek]

Toyota is one of the best auto manufacturers around. Sucks that they had that recall, but it is a far cry from most! I don't think ford even got railed as bad when their sweatshop Firestone tires decided to explode and shred.

[Sylvus]

/edit: this was in response to miir, before Canno snuck one in.
I thought there was more to it than that? I heard a recording of a pretty horrific 911 call in which someone (who seemed like they weren't a total idiot) couldn't slow their car and ended up crashing, killing all of the passengers.

Not sure if this is the transcript of that call, or another one, but...

Mark Saylor and his wife Cleofe, both 45, their 13-year-old daughter, Mahala, and 38-year-old brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, were killed Aug. 28 after Lastrella called 911 and said the accelerator was stuck in their 2009 Lexus.
10News obtained a copy of the 911 call made by Lastrella, who described the situation to the dispatcher.
Lastrella: "We're on North 125 and our accelerator is stuck."
911 Dispatcher: "I'm sorry?"
Lastrella: "Our accelerator is stuck. We're on 125."
911 Dispatcher: "Northbound 125. What are you passing?"
Lastrella: "We're going 120. Mission Gorge. We're in trouble. We can't … there is no brakes. End freeway half mile."
911 dispatcher: "You can't do anything like turn off your engine?"
Lastrella: "We're approaching the intersection. We're approaching the intersection. We're approaching the intersection."
Others in the care are heard saying "hold on" and "pray."

I thought the Toyota thing is a big deal because there still isn't a definitive cause. A couple weeks in and they were still saying it was the floor mats and denying it was a software issue, even though cases were being reported without the floor mats. There are also rumors that Toyota was covering up that they knew about the issue before people began complaining about it.

Full disclosure: I live in an area that is closely tied with the Big 3, so all local news is suspect of having a pro-American car company bias. That said, these stories have been coming from ABC and other national places. I've even heard that Toyota has pulled advertising from ABC stations because of ABC reporting on these issues.

This doesn't seem like your run-of-the-mill recall. That said, I think the Ford/Firestone tire recall from 10 or so years ago got more press than this has been getting. I know that was one of the most deadly auto safety issues ever, not sure how this Toyota one ranks.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

With the way brakes work with the vacuum, braking alone would not be "easy". When a vehcile is at full throttle, the vacuum assist for your brakes is not there. You still have brakes, but they are no longer power assisted brakes. There is absolutely nothing to keep you from putting the vehicle into neutral though.

From that transcript, if not one single person in that vehicle could not come up with the grand plan of taking the vehicle out of gear.....

The most maddening issue right now is that imbeciles in the White House are getting involved and telling people to park their Toyotas. When Government Motors is putting shit out publicly that will hurt a company, you need to step back and take a long look at why.

[miir]

From that transcript, if not one single person in that vehicle could not come up with the grand plan of taking the vehicle out of gear.....

The saddest thing about it is the driver was a cop.

[Aslanna]

The most maddening issue right now is that imbeciles in the White House are getting involved and telling people to park their Toyotas. When Government Motors is putting shit out publicly that will hurt a company, you need to step back and take a long look at why.

lols you're a laugh. What is hurting the company is their shitty quality and safety issues. Perhaps if that wasn't an issue they wouldn't be getting "hurt". Try placing the blame where it belongs instead of your favorite target.

[Winnow]

Why couldn't they just start slamming into the back of cars to slow themselves down a bit and maybe disable the engine in the process? (besides taking it out of gear) Ram into the back of another car that might be able to help break, preferably not a Toyota.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

The most maddening issue right now is that imbeciles in the White House are getting involved and telling people to park their Toyotas. When Government Motors is putting shit out publicly that will hurt a company, you need to step back and take a long look at why.

lols you're a laugh. What is hurting the company is their shitty quality and safety issues. Perhaps if that wasn't an issue they wouldn't be getting "hurt". Try placing the blame where it belongs instead of your favorite target.

is that a fact? Toyota actually has been a leader in quality and safety for pretty much the last 20 years. Shitty quality is also not even remotely associated with the Toyota brand. There are a few facts here that I know your trolling useless ass will ignore and were specifically mentioned.....the only question is should I waste my time repeating them for your ignorant ass to ignore again?

Fact 1: every car company has had recalls because of extremely dangerous issues.
Fact 2: never before in history has a Transportation Secretary of the United States told people to park a certain brand of cars for safety
Fact 3: the US gubment is an owner of GM

[miir]

I don't know who hacked Kilmoll's account this week, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff he's posting.

[Aslanna]

is that a fact? Toyota actually has been a leader in quality and safety for pretty much the last 20 years. Shitty quality is also not even remotely associated with the Toyota brand. There are a few facts here that I know your trolling useless ass will ignore and were specifically mentioned.....the only question is should I waste my time repeating them for your ignorant ass to ignore again?

Funny I had no idea we were talking about the last 20 years. We're talking about a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER! If Toyota was a terrorist we'd be water-boarding them right now.

Consider your "facts" ignored.

[Sylvus]

Here are some more facts for you:
Fact 4: This is the biggest and potentially most dangerous auto safety issue that has come up in Secretary of Transportation Ray Lahood's short tenure.
Fact 5: Toyota has denied unintended acceleration issues for years.
Fact 6: Ray LaHood's actual quote was, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles... stop driving it, take it to Toyota dealer, 'cause they believe they have the fix for it."
Fact 7: Around 90 minutes after he made that comment, he clarified those comments to the press. When pressed, he said several times that his recommendation was, if one were in doubt regarding their Toyota to take it in and have the dealer look at it.
Fact 8: Toyota itself has halted production on some lines while looking into this issue.
Fact 9: Just because someone historically had a clean safety rating or was of the highest quality, does not mean that will continue in perpetuity.

Opinion 1: The statement made in Fact 6 was pretty benign, and you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that a government conspiracy to sell more GM cars was evidenced by that little nugget.
Opinion 2: American car companies had some pretty shitty quality and safety ratings 20 or more years ago that people will not let go, but if you were to look at a lot of them today they are way better. Not sure why people are so reluctant to accept that.
Opinion 3: I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but better an issue with foreign cars than American ones.

[Funkmasterr]

Here are some more facts for you:
Fact 4: This is the biggest and potentially most dangerous auto safety issue that has come up in Secretary of Transportation Ray Lahood's short tenure.
Fact 5: Toyota has denied unintended acceleration issues for years.
Fact 6: Ray LaHood's actual quote was, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles... stop driving it, take it to Toyota dealer, 'cause they believe they have the fix for it."
Fact 7: Around 90 minutes after he made that comment, he clarified those comments to the press. When pressed, he said several times that his recommendation was, if one were in doubt regarding their Toyota to take it in and have the dealer look at it.
Fact 8: Toyota itself has halted production on some lines while looking into this issue.
Fact 9: Just because someone historically had a clean safety rating or was of the highest quality, does not mean that will continue in perpetuity.

Opinion 1: The statement made in Fact 6 was pretty benign, and you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that a government conspiracy to sell more GM cars was evidenced by that little nugget.
Opinion 2: American car companies had some pretty shitty quality and safety ratings 20 or more years ago that people will not let go, but if you were to look at a lot of them today they are way better. Not sure why people are so reluctant to accept that.
Opinion 3: I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but better an issue with foreign cars than American ones.

I know personally my issue with American cars isn't safety. It's that I don't like how they look as far as body style, I don't like the interior of them (even a nice Cadillac interior looks cheesy to me compared to a entry level Infiniti/Audi/BMW/etc), I don't like their performance compared to said cars. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Does that make them BAD cars? Not necessarily, the luxury and performance factors just aren't really up to my (relatively high) standards.

[Bubba Grizz]

Aren't most Toyota's made in the US?

[Winnow]

American cars look horrible and their reliability factors are troublesome.

I'm gung ho U.S.A but would much rather have a Toyota engine in my car. Hella reliable.

HELLA!

Had all sorts of problems with U.S. made cars over the years. Next to zero issues with Toyota models. I'll risk a Kamikaze trip through an intersection to roll in a Toyota over a Crysler, Ford, Etc

220K miles and counting on my present Toyota.

[Canelek]

Aren't most Toyota's made in the US?

I wouldn't say most, but many are.

Tundra: Texas
Camry: Kentucky or one of those other middle states
..probably more , but those are the only ones I remember

And to echo Kilmoll, Toyota, despite this recall, has been an likely will be for a long time, one of the most reliable auto manufacturers around.

[Zaelath]

I don't know who hacked Kilmoll's account this week, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff he's posting.

Yeah, but it's still for the wrong reasons, so that's ok

I personally don't think sticky accelerators are "catastrophic failures", and I would bet the problem is a lot less prevalent than people make out for various reasons; tickets, notoriety, etc.

Shit like "being told rear ending your Pinto will cause it to explode" and taking the Fight Club X*Y < Z approach puts you in the toilet for a LOT longer than this recall.

I'd still buy a Toyota or a Honda before an American car, in fact, the thought just makes me giggle into my coffee. Y'all have some things you excel at, cars and motorcycles aren't among them.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

The previous top 10 recalls of autos in the US. You may notice that some of these were somewhat benign. Others were just as, if not more than, dangerous than the current Toyota issue. The Toyota issue is not even the first rocket-car issue in the US as GM had a similar issue in the 70's. personally, I would rather have the easily defeated Toyota issue than having my vehicle burst into flames while I was in it....or having a faulty seatbelt that I knew nothing about until such time as I needed it.

#1 In February of 2008, Ford issued the industry’s largest-ever recall, affecting Lincoln and Mercury SUVs, pickups, cars, and vans of model years ‘93 to ‘04. The lowly cruise-control switch was behind this mother-of-all do-overs. It had a nasty habit of catching fire, sometimes hours after the vehicle had been parked and turned off. Owner response, however, has been slow, so in a rare move Ford reissued the recall in September of 2008 for the 5 million vehicles still unrepaired.

#2. Ford 1996 (8.6 million vehicles):In 1996, after customers complained of fires caused by faulty ignition systems, Ford Motor Co. recalled vehicles including 1998-’93 Escorts, Mustangs, Tempos, Thunderbirds, Cougars, Crown Vics, Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Cars, Aerostars, Broncos, and F-series trucks.

#3. GM 1971 (6.7 million vehicles): In 1971, some GM customers got the ride of their lives as engine mounts began separating from frames and falling back onto throttles. The models with these rocket-like tendencies included Belair, Brookwood, Camaro, Caprice, Chevrolet, Chevy II, G Series, Impala, Kingswood, Nova, P Series, C Series, and Townsmen.

#4 GM 1981 (5.8 million vehicles): Some drivers learned the hard way that suspension bolts in certain GM models had a way of wiggling themselves loose. The result? The loss of ability to steer the car. In 1981, GM offered to replace the dubious bolts in the Century, Regal, El Camino, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Caballero, Cutlass, Grand Prix, and Lemans.

#5. Ford 1971 (4.1 million vehicles): Seatbelt shoulder harnesses on 1970 and ‘71 Ford Rancheros, Lincolns, Mercurys, and Fords (yes, there was at one time a Ford Ford) had an annoying tendency to fray and detach from the metal holding it to the frame. And though few drivers were even wearing seatbelts back then, Ford did the right thing and issued the recall.

#6 GM 1973 (3.7 million vehicles): The ability to control where your car actually goes is important. GM saw the truth of this in 1973 when they agreed to install engine shields to prevent stones from disabling the steering assembly. 18 models were affected: Centurion, Electra, Estate Wagon, LeSabre, Riviera, Belair, Biscayne, Brookwood, Caprice, Impala, Kingswood, Kingswood Estate, Townsmen, Olds 88 and 98, Bonneville, Grand Ville, and Catalina.

#7 Honda 1995 (3.7 million vehicles): In 1995, American Honda Motor Co. dealt with a serious concern in some of its models. Cracked and disintegrating safety-belt release buttons were causing belts to fail or-just as potentially dangerous-trapping passengers in their cars after an accident. The recall included Civic, Prelude, Accord, Acura, Legend, Integra, and NSX models.

#8 Volkswagen 1972 (3.7 million vehicles): Lost visibility can be just as dangerous as fire or a failing seatbelt. Some Volkswagen of America customers found this out the hard way when their windshield wiper arms worked themselves loose and went spinning off into the rain or snow. So in 1972, Volkswagen offered to replace the part in Bugs built between 1949 and 1969.

#9 GM 2004 (3.6 million vehicles): From 1999 to 2004, tailgating took on a new dimension for the 134 customers who suffered minor accidents from collapsing tailgates. Corroded cables were the culprits. In 2004, GM offered to replace the tailgate cables on Silverados, Sierras, Escalades, and Avalanches. In their defense, it should be noted that customers are clearly warned not to stand on open tailgates. At least 134 have not read that part of the owner’s manual.

#10 Ford 1987 (3.6 million vehicles): Engine-compartment fires caused by faulty fuel-line connectors compelled Ford to issue this recall in 1987. While not the biggest in terms of vehicle numbers, this recall may be the widest: affected vehicles included virtually every model Ford made, including F150-350 trucks, and all Lincoln and Mercury models.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Here are some more facts for you:
Fact 4: This is the biggest and potentially most dangerous auto safety issue that has come up in Secretary of Transportation Ray Lahood's short tenure.
Fact 5: Toyota has denied unintended acceleration issues for years.
Fact 6: Ray LaHood's actual quote was, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles... stop driving it, take it to Toyota dealer, 'cause they believe they have the fix for it."
Fact 7: Around 90 minutes after he made that comment, he clarified those comments to the press. When pressed, he said several times that his recommendation was, if one were in doubt regarding their Toyota to take it in and have the dealer look at it.
Fact 8: Toyota itself has halted production on some lines while looking into this issue.
Fact 9: Just because someone historically had a clean safety rating or was of the highest quality, does not mean that will continue in perpetuity.

Opinion 1: The statement made in Fact 6 was pretty benign, and you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that a government conspiracy to sell more GM cars was evidenced by that little nugget.
Opinion 2: American car companies had some pretty shitty quality and safety ratings 20 or more years ago that people will not let go, but if you were to look at a lot of them today they are way better. Not sure why people are so reluctant to accept that.
Opinion 3: I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but better an issue with foreign cars than American ones.

It does not matter how long dipshit lenure has been in his position. It is a private industry that the government decided to step into and he has no business saying jack or shit about something that can affect the shareholders of that company. If this was the Bush administration, you all would be going apeshit.

Second, I do not believe toyota knew the exact problem for years. No company would ignore something that would be a simple fix if they knew it was a hazard. It would be a stupendously bad move to open themselves up to that kind of potential litigation. Have they known about it longer than the last couple weeks? Probably.

The bottom line is that there always have been and always will be issues that vehicles need to be recalled for that are potential safety hazards. From what I have heard, there have been somewhere between 12 and 80 incidents that could have been caused by THIS issue. The magnification for this problem is coming from the government overstepping its bounds and being involved in a private industry...along with a media that needs to generate hysteria to feed itself.

This site http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/2 ... ts-update/ is reporting 815 crashes in the last decade that have been as any result of unintended acceleration. This does not take into account anyone just claiming the vehicle did this on its own to deny liability for an accident.

SRS’s database consists only of incidents reported from 1999 to the present (regardless of model year). We have defined unintended acceleration as any incident in which the complainant reported an engine acceleration that was unintended – regardless of whether the car was in gear. We understand that this is a broader inclusion than others have considered; however, because we are still at a stage of trying to understand the incidents we believe this inclusiveness will help us discern vehicle years / models and incident types that we may want to investigate further.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I don't know who hacked Kilmoll's account this week, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff he's posting.

Yeah, but it's still for the wrong reasons, so that's ok

I personally don't think sticky accelerators are "catastrophic failures", and I would bet the problem is a lot less prevalent than people make out for various reasons; tickets, notoriety, etc.

Shit like "being told rear ending your Pinto will cause it to explode" and taking the Fight Club X*Y < Z approach puts you in the toilet for a LOT longer than this recall.

I'd still buy a Toyota or a Honda before an American car, in fact, the thought just makes me giggle into my coffee. Y'all have some things you excel at, cars and motorcycles aren't among them.

Saying American vehicles are not any good is just incorrect. there are many vehicles made that are just as reliable, if not more so than many foreign makers. Take the Jeeps for instance....their inline 6 motors are nearly impossible to kill. You can find tens of thousands of the mid-90's Jeep Wranglers on the street right now with 200k+ miles on them and those vehicles get abused. The American vehicles also have other parts in them that are highly prized even by owners of foreign vehicles. The Dana 45 and the Ford 8.8 axles are ripped off any truck that hits a junkyard by Toyota truck owners. many of the transmissions and transfer cases, etc are also much more reliable than their foreign counterparts.

If you wanted to say that the foreign SEDANS are better in general, then you probably would have me in agreement. As for motorcycles, well you would get a big disagreement there as well. Harley makes bikes that are going to be around in 40 years (except in the middle 80's when everything made here was garbage). The foreign bikes are going to be pretty reliable for 10-15, then you might as well junk it.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I don't know who hacked Kilmoll's account this week, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff he's posting.

If you can alert me to these things, I will strive to make sure to fix that. Alternatively, maybe your meds need to be strengthened.

[Jice Virago]

If the transmission is electronically controlled, taking it out of gear may not be an option. I would think that killing the ignition would still work, though. I'd like to know what highway those people were on that they were able to hold 120 and not fucking crash into anyone. Plus, a skilled driver (theoretically anyone with a badge recieves this training) should have been able to manage a controlled stop with the emergency brake before resorting to a cell phone call. Can't really understand how these people got into this situation, really.

[Jice Virago]

Edit: Holy shit. Just read the article. The pedal got jammed by a rubber mat? You have time to fucking dial a cell phone but not to reach down and pull the fucking pedal off the floor? Natural Selection at work, folks.

[Zaelath]

If you wanted to say that the foreign SEDANS are better in general, then you probably would have me in agreement. As for motorcycles, well you would get a big disagreement there as well. Harley makes bikes that are going to be around in 40 years (except in the middle 80's when everything made here was garbage). The foreign bikes are going to be pretty reliable for 10-15, then you might as well junk it.

I'm not convinced, we'll have to look back in 40 years. I will say though that my '97 Honda Blackbird shows no signs of trouble that aren't caused by neglect

Hell, it has an engine that redlines at 11,000 RPM and where the normal first "repair" required is to check the valve clearances at the 100,000 mile mark... I don't think Harley touches that.

[Xyun]

Stick shift!

[Sylvus]

It does not matter how long dipshit lenure has been in his position. It is a private industry that the government decided to step into and he has no business saying jack or shit about something that can affect the shareholders of that company. If this was the Bush administration, you all would be going apeshit.

Second, I do not believe toyota knew the exact problem for years. No company would ignore something that would be a simple fix if they knew it was a hazard. It would be a stupendously bad move to open themselves up to that kind of potential litigation. Have they known about it longer than the last couple weeks? Probably.

The bottom line is that there always have been and always will be issues that vehicles need to be recalled for that are potential safety hazards. From what I have heard, there have been somewhere between 12 and 80 incidents that could have been caused by THIS issue. The magnification for this problem is coming from the government overstepping its bounds and being involved in a private industry...along with a media that needs to generate hysteria to feed itself.

What are you talking about, the government absolutely has stepped in on auto recalls in the past. They've gone so far as to fine companies (I know they did it with GM only a couple years back) millions of dollars for not being quick enough with a recall. Did you watch the video of LaHood's comments above? He never said "Don't drive Toyotas". This isn't anything new. And I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you that the head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (or his boss, if that's what LaHood is) doesn't have any business saying jack or shit about this.

I'm still looking for links to things I have heard on the radio in the last week or two, but I have heard a number of sketchy things that Toyota has done regarding this issue. Something about them downplaying it since they first learned of it in like 2004, jobs or kickbacks to a couple investigators who gave them favorable safety reports on this issue in 2005 or 2006, things I linked above... Treat it as rumor if you like, I'll come back and post them here if I can find them.

As far as any Bush comments go, this isn't a partisan issue for me, at least not partisan in the sense of politics. I'm partisan when it comes to American cars over Foreign, and while I don't want anyone to get physically hurt by this issue, I'm all for it hurting Toyota's bottom line.

Edit: Holy shit. Just read the article. The pedal got jammed by a rubber mat? You have time to fucking dial a cell phone but not to reach down and pull the fucking pedal off the floor? Natural Selection at work, folks.

They don't know that that was the issue, just that the car was outfitted with those mats for which there was an issue. One of the big things about this whole fiasco is that Toyota was sticking to their guns that this was a floormat issue, when people were saying it was other things. They have since included a faulty gas pedal issue. Some people are saying it is a software issue and Toyota will not (or would not, may have changed this week) accept that as an option. One of the links I posted above (I think) described someone whose issues,Toyota said, were caused by the floormat, yet the man tells the story of physically moving the gas pedal up and down to no avail. Who knows which of the multitude of issues that keep popping up caused that particular crash?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

If you wanted to say that the foreign SEDANS are better in general, then you probably would have me in agreement. As for motorcycles, well you would get a big disagreement there as well. Harley makes bikes that are going to be around in 40 years (except in the middle 80's when everything made here was garbage). The foreign bikes are going to be pretty reliable for 10-15, then you might as well junk it.

I'm not convinced, we'll have to look back in 40 years. I will say though that my '97 Honda Blackbird shows no signs of trouble that aren't caused by neglect

Hell, it has an engine that redlines at 11,000 RPM and where the normal first "repair" required is to check the valve clearances at the 100,000 mile mark... I don't think Harley touches that.

Yea....I am not arguing that the foreign bikes are bad in the least. Just that US bikes are definitely as good, but in a different way. US sport bikes are not nearly as good I will say. I really do not think you are saying that Harley sucks, so I will not turn it into a pissing match. Cruisers and sport bikes are such different animals that it is tough to compare them to one another.

[Zaelath]

Yea....I am not arguing that the foreign bikes are bad in the least. Just that US bikes are definitely as good, but in a different way. US sport bikes are not nearly as good I will say. I really do not think you are saying that Harley sucks, so I will not turn it into a pissing match. Cruisers and sport bikes are such different animals that it is tough to compare them to one another.

Harleys are mobile art. But while they've worked to improve their reliability, I very much doubt your projected 40 year old Harley would have more than 100,000 miles on it, it will be a weekend cruiser that still managed to be rebuilt every 10,000 miles.

But anyway... "Ford. Drive one."

Really.. that's the best they could come up with?

[Winnow]

I really do not think you are saying that Harley sucks, so I will not turn it into a pissing match.

Harleys most definitely suck and need some serious muffler improvement. They are noise pollution machines. Should be outlawed. Get an electric motorcycle.



vrooooom!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/02/autos/G ... htm?hpt=T3

General Motors has recalled 1.3 million Chevrolet and Pontiac models in North America for power steering failures that are tied to 14 crashes and one injury in the United States, the company said Tuesday.

The recall affects 2005-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt and 2007-2010 Pontiac G5 models sold in the United States, 2005-2006 Pontiac Pursuit vehicles sold in Canada, and 2005-2006 Pontiac G4 models sold in Mexico.

Still nothing by the transportation secretary....this surely must be an oversight?

[Aabidano]

Harleys most definitely suck and need some serious muffler improvement. They are noise pollution machines. Should be outlawed.

That's the riders not the bikes:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/254813

[miir]

If anyone actually cares, the DOT report came out earlier this year and pretty much said that all reports of Toyotas having unintended acceleration were a result of 'pedal misapplication'

[Xyun]

every automatic car i have ever driven could be kicked into neutral without applying the brakes. I learned this because one of my first cars would rev up when stopped at a red light so i began putting the car in neutral while stopped. Then i began putting in neutral while approaching a stop. I've even kicked a car into neutral, turned it off while traveling over 40 mph, and turned it back on while still traveling as if it was a stick shift. I also practiced kick starting stick shifts in this manner, while the car was already traveling around 15 mph.