Olympic Fail

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Siji
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Siji »

Winnow wrote:Dude is playing hoops on the new White House basketball court today. He's a media hound, nothing else.
In an event that was closed to all media. Yeah, real media hound there.

It was also an event with fellow politicians. CEO's of businesses golf with their peers. The CEO of the country plays basketball with his. What's the difference?

Seriously Winnow, are you even trying anymore?
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Aabidano »

Tyek wrote:...even his biggest supporters have to admit this one makes no sense.
Not likely :)
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Thess »

Tyek wrote:I have a hard time believing he won. I just hope he can live up to an award he has yet to deserve. The only other Presidents to win, Roosevelt and Wilson did something concrete, hell one formed the UN, and did not win during their terms.

I am hoping for the future, but even his biggest supporters have to admit this one makes no sense.
Carter won in 2002
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Tyek »

whoops... you are right. He did Habitat for Humanity. Sorry about that. Point is, these are historic and life changing accomplishments.

I truely hope he can live up to this, Obama is still using the "Cleaning up the Bush Mess" excuse for why he has not done much, how can he have won this?

It seems like it was given as a point he has to live up too, instead of award he lived up too.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by miir »

Tyek wrote:It seems like it was given as a point he has to live up too, instead of award he earned.

Fixed
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Funkmasterr »

miir wrote:
Tyek wrote:It seems like it was given as a point he has to live up to, instead of an award he earned.

Fixed

Fixed Fixed.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Tyek »

Thanks Miir, I have a hard enough time expressing my opinion when not in major pain and on drugs, so now that I have both, any help is appreciated.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Winnow »

Siji wrote:
Winnow wrote: In an event that was closed to all media. Yeah, real media hound there.

hint: How did I know about this basketball event?

Media hound. Closing it to the media is to save himself from further embarrassment. The media still reports on his shenanigans.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

Jimmy Carter didn't win it for Habitat for Humanity.
The Nobel Committee wrote:The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided to award the Nobel Peace Prize for 2002 to Jimmy Carter, for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development.

During his presidency (1977-1981), Carter's mediation was a vital contribution to the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt, in itself a great enough achievement to qualify for the Nobel Peace Prize. At a time when the cold war between East and West was still predominant, he placed renewed emphasis on the place of human rights in international politics.

Through his Carter Center, which celebrates its 20th anniversary in 2002, Carter has since his presidency undertaken very extensive and persevering conflict resolution on several continents. He has shown outstanding commitment to human rights, and has served as an observer at countless elections all over the world. He has worked hard on many fronts to fight tropical diseases and to bring about growth and progress in developing countries. Carter has thus been active in several of the problem areas that have figured prominently in the over one hundred years of Peace Prize history.

In a situation currently marked by threats of the use of power, Carter has stood by the principles that conflicts must as far as possible be resolved through mediation and international co-operation based on international law, respect for human rights, and economic development.
Funk wrote:Well, since no one even seems to know what it is that he got the award for
I'll give you an even more complete answer than Aslanna.
Nobel Committee wrote:The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."
Facts: They are our friends!

And, if you're looking for something fancy, like an analysis of whether those claims are true:
Richard Sexton wrote:The pick is quite a surprise, given Obama's relatively short stint on the international stage, but the Nobel committee emphasized that the pick was made on Obama's record, not his potential for the future.
The justification for the prize, while certainly unexpected and a bit tenuous, is indeed rooted in fact. Obama has long been a booster for non-proliferation, and his speech and lobbying at the UN General Assembly and Security Council proved to be quite successful.

On climate change, the Obama administration has taken the toughest line against carbon emissions of any White House so far in terms of concrete regulations by Federal agencies. The September announcement by the EPA that the agency would begin to regulate CO2 as a pollutant, verified by the Supreme Court in 2007, was a major step towards US action on the climate change issue. Though cap-and-trade or other large scale programmes are clearly the purvue of Congress, the executive branch's efforts in the realm are likely to be a major portion of the US effort.

Regarding diplomacy, the committee was likely in part referring to the re-elevation of Susan Rice's post, the US Ambassador to the UN, to a cabinet level post, as well as his public addresses and promised strategic changes toward diplomatic action over rapid military decisions - such as Iran. The G5 plus one meeting with Iran, where Undersecretary of State Burns officially met with the Iranian negotiator, and found a way forward on nuclear energy processing was the first concrete outcome of this strategy.
With regard to this guy's commentary, it's worth noting that many of these things happened after his nomination. But did they happen before the committee made it's decision? I have no idea when between the date of nominations and today the committee makes its decision, or what they consider.

Now, I'm definitely fairly far to the Obama-booster side of things, and I'll agree that the award is kind of silly. But, uhh, so what? I'm glad that a committee of five eminent Norwegian politicians think that Obama fucking rocks. And that's fine by me. We've gotten to a pretty fucked up place in this country when we actively disdain international approval.
Last edited by Sueven on October 9, 2009, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

Listen, this is what's going on in the world now, and why international approval is relevant.

International relations can proceed in one of two basic ways in the future:

1. The European Model.
Globalization continues apace. Borders and sovereignty continue to break down slowly. International institutes, treaties, and law become ever more powerful forces, probably moving us some measure closer to globalized governing structures. Something of an equalizing occurs, with immigration becoming easier, developing nations developing, developed nations losing some of their advantages, great powers losing their special status. Many parts of the world make serious and painful efforts to tackle issues like climate change, poverty, energy, and population, and we'll see the results. This is the model favored in most of the world outside of the great powers and the middle east, with some exceptions.

2. The nationalistic model. The great powers-- the United States, China, Russia-- refuse to cooperate with the European consensus, decide that international relations is a zero-sum game, and aggressively seek to maximize their power and wealth. Other nations, like Iran, India, and emerging Latin American economies try to elbow their way in. The liberal Western democracies of Europe and parts of Asia will have to decide how to react. This scenario prevents the possibility of meaningful cooperation in tackling global problems and hampers the buildup of powerful international institutions and laws. This, in turn, makes major violent conflict more likely. It also retains traditional notions of sovereignty and nation-states. We end up with a Hydra Cold War, with multiple power centers instead of just two.

But then, after those two options, there's a complication: Either a wild card event hits or it doesn't.

The Wild Card Option: Maybe some group of Jihadists get their hands on a bunch of nukes and start slinging them with unforeseen results. Maybe the swine flu causes a serious global pandemic. Maybe peak oil hits. Maybe the Austrian economists are right and the entire system of international currency breaks down. Maybe climate change models are too conservative and we have a 6 foot sea level rise in the next 50 years. Whatever your favorite disaster scenario is, insert it here. This causes an unknowable future beyond our ability to project.

Most conservative types, even a lot of Democrats, are very fearful and disdainful of option 1, for reasons I can't begin to fathom because it sure looks better than option 2. Upon serious reflection, I think that option 2 is indefensible. I suspect that most people who support option 2 style policies (and therefore are generally disdainful of thinks like international approval) don't actually believe that a better long-term future awaits an option 2 rather than an option 1 world; instead, they believe in the inevitability of the wild card event. And they think "since everything's going to hell anyway, we should try to be in the best possible position so we weather the inevitable storm as well as possible." So they support option 2 policies.

That also strikes me as wrong. If you believe in the inevitability of the wild card, I don't really get why option 2 is better than option 1. A truly catastrophic wild card would have totally unpredictable results, and it's pretty much impossible to determine what consequences actions now would have on the post-wild card future. So why don't we proceed with option 1, which builds a better world if the wild card doesn't come to pass? Who's to say that we'd be worse off when the wild card hit? And isn't it likely that getting the world working together on common problems gives us a better chance of fending off a wild card than having different regions of the world remain focused on parochial concerns?

If you think that we should necessarily do the opposite of whatever Europe wants, I'd really love to hear your vision of the future of the world that looks better than the international consensus option 1 model above. And Europe would kind of badly appreciate our support, because we're probably the nation with the single most influence in shaping the behavior of the other great powers.

I should clarify that I'm pretty far from a European knobslobber, and I don't at all think that we should just acquiesce to whatever Europeans want. There's certainly plenty of self-interest on the old continent too. But seriously-- all else being equal, it's a lot better to be thought of positively than not.
Last edited by Sueven on October 9, 2009, 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

Oh right, I guess there's a third option:

3. The Idiot Nationalist Model: American successfully bullies the rest of the world into accepting our values.

But that one's self-evidently wrong enough not to require refutation.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

"Media Hound"

Image

"Celebrity"

Image
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Tyek »

Don't get me wrong. I like his policy of "Talking with the enemy". I am not sure how we could ever reach any type of peace if we refuse to talk with someone. I just think the award is extremely premature.

It doesn't matter anyway, I am not on the Nobel committee and I don't expect them to come knocking anytime soon.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

Yeah, I mean, I probably would have voted for somebody else. Kind of bizarre how they give the other awards out for accomplishments usually made decades ago, once their impact has had time to be felt, while they give the peace prize to whoever the fuck they want in any given year.

But, the other awards are given by committees of professionals, while the peace prize is given by a committee of politicians. So, that explains that.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Nick »

We can close this thread now, Sueven has pretty much dealt with the entire crux of about 20 different arguments that the faggots here are too thick to discuss without saying "roflcopter"

Excellent post my friend. :)
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Keverian FireCry »

Yeah, I mean, I probably would have voted for somebody else.
Who would you have voted for?
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Winnow »

Keverian FireCry wrote:
Yeah, I mean, I probably would have voted for somebody else.
Who would you have voted for?

Obviously that would be Oprah Winfrey as according to this thread, she's the most influential woman of our time and her book of the month picks rock!
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

Thanks Nick.

Kev, I'm not sure. I don't really know enough about the other nominees to judge. From the little I know, the Chinese dissidents under consideration seem pretty badass.

It kind of depends on what you think the prize is meant to award. If it's for a lifetime of struggle and sacrifice, someone like a Chinese dissident would probably be ideal. That's clearly not Obama. However, Obama is the biggest thing going right now in terms of concrete steps to actually push the world in the direction of interconnectedness, diplomacy and peace, and I can see rewarding him from that perspective. As noble and heroic as many nominees are, being long-suffering and oppressed doesn't really get us very far toward peace.

Anyone notice that 7 out of the 10 other Nobel laureates thus far announced-- in Physics, Chemistry, Medicine and Literature-- are Americans, or at least have done substantial portions of their training and work in America? Am I allowed to be proud of that, or would that make me too much of a nancy boy Euro appeaser?
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Tyek »

Sueven wrote:Thanks Nick.

Kev, I'm not sure. I don't really know enough about the other nominees to judge. From the little I know, the Chinese dissidents under consideration seem pretty badass.

It kind of depends on what you think the prize is meant to award. If it's for a lifetime of struggle and sacrifice, someone like a Chinese dissident would probably be ideal. That's clearly not Obama. However, Obama is the biggest thing going right now in terms of concrete steps to actually push the world in the direction of interconnectedness, diplomacy and peace, and I can see rewarding him from that perspective. As noble and heroic as many nominees are, being long-suffering and oppressed doesn't really get us very far toward peace.

Anyone notice that 7 out of the 10 other Nobel laureates thus far announced-- in Physics, Chemistry, Medicine and Literature-- are Americans, or at least have done substantial portions of their training and work in America? Am I allowed to be proud of that, or would that make me too much of a nancy boy Euro appeaser?
I don't think you are allowed to be proud of that. I have heard that the US is a joke and everyone always laughs at us. It is clearly a mistake that the US has won so much when they suck so badly. Come On Sueven, YOU KNOW THIS!!
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Zaelath »

I can see why you think this award is silly, compared to prior winners like....

YASSER ARAFAT , Chairman of the Executive Committee of the PLO, President of the Palestinian National Authority.

SHIMON PERES , Foreign Minister of Israel.

YITZHAK RABIN , Prime Minister of Israel.

(all jointly in 1994).
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Gzette »

Zaelath wrote:I can see why you think this award is silly, compared to prior winners like....

YASSER ARAFAT , Chairman of the Executive Committee of the PLO, President of the Palestinian National Authority.

SHIMON PERES , Foreign Minister of Israel.

YITZHAK RABIN , Prime Minister of Israel.

(all jointly in 1994).
well that was after the Dayton accord, which had put the two camps on a sort of path to peace before some Israeli radical fuckstick assassinated Rabin. If you remember the pictures of Arafat and Rabin shaking hands in the Rose Garden, it was because of that. They really had pushed peace forward in the region before they were derailed and pushed aside by extremists in bolth camps.

Nick is right. this thread should be closed. What does this have to do with the olympics anyway?
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Winnow »

President Obama's job approval numbers will dip below 50% for the first time today in Gallup's daily tracking poll, according to a Gallup official.

"Gallup Daily tracking results just in. Obama will be below 50% for the first time when we update our numbers at 1:00 p.m.," wrote Gallup.com managing news editor Lymari Morales on Twitter.

His approval numbers have bounced down to the 50% mark several times, driven by weaker support from independents and Republicans, but hadn't crossed it.

The slide is worrying for the White House, but it's probably not yet panic time. Ronald Reagan's approval numbers dropped well below 40% during the depths of his first term recession. If Obama's bad stretch puts him in the high forties or low fifties, that's not a crippling political problem. If he languishes there or drops further, it may become one.

UPDATE: The Gallup data is now online. Gallup notes that Obama fell below 50% at almost the exact same mark in his presidency that Reagan did, and attributes the drop -- most of which took place over the summer -- to the economy and to the health care debate.
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Sueven »

Don't you have another thread specifically designed for you to troll with this retarded bullshit?
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Re: Olympic Fail

Post by Aabidano »

Winnow wrote:Obama is no Ronald Reagan! He's not bouncing back!
But he is paralleling Clinton well, he'll bounce back and have an ineffective next 6 years. The last 4 deadlocked against a republican legislative branch.
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