Resume advice

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Funkmasterr
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Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

I'm currently working a shitty early morning stock position at Costco because I've been unable to find a decent job in over a year now. What I'm trying to decide on is whether I should include this job on my resume to show that I am at least employed. I've done some searching online and I've found conflicting opinions, but figured maybe someone here would have some insight.

P.S. No one should have to work at 4am, no one.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Boogahz »

My brother-in-law is working that shift and loving it. It might also be because of how long he had spent looking for any work at all before starting last year as a holiday temp.

As for listing it on the resume, I guess it would depend on how much other recent work you can add.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

I hate it. I mean, Costco is actually a decent company to work for, they treat their employees well, my manager is great, the pay is actually pretty decent for the work you do etc. But I'd much rather be going to sleep at 3am than waking up.

His position sounds just like mine, I've been unemployed since September of last year, and finally after my unemployment ran out and nothing panned out for me I took a holiday temp position here, too.

So, I haven't had any employment, or even anything I can put down on my resume (besides attending school) to show what occurred in that time gap until Costco. I'm leaning towards listing it, as I've scarcely even got a "no thanks" from companies I've applied with, and I can't help but think it's due to how long I've been unemployed, because I'm certainly qualified for the positions I've been applying for.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Leonaerd »

Just say you were self-studying during that period. You have better leverage in an interview when you don't appear desperately in need of the job. Source: my ass.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Zaelath »

Funkmasterr wrote:I hate it. I mean, Costco is actually a decent company to work for, they treat their employees well, my manager is great, the pay is actually pretty decent for the work you do etc. But I'd much rather be going to sleep at 3am than waking up.

His position sounds just like mine, I've been unemployed since September of last year, and finally after my unemployment ran out and nothing panned out for me I took a holiday temp position here, too.

So, I haven't had any employment, or even anything I can put down on my resume (besides attending school) to show what occurred in that time gap until Costco. I'm leaning towards listing it, as I've scarcely even got a "no thanks" from companies I've applied with, and I can't help but think it's due to how long I've been unemployed, because I'm certainly qualified for the positions I've been applying for.
There's no solid answer for this..

I've been on hiring panels and I wouldn't care that you worked at Costco, I've had friends that refuse to hire anyone that ever worked at McDonalds (I don't know why)

I think the employment gap is worse than Costco though, only thing worse is a string of 2-3 month jobs.

If the economy was stronger I'd see more "damage" from a Costco position, but at the moment...
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Chidoro »

What job are you applying for? Makes a big difference.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Zaelath wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I hate it. I mean, Costco is actually a decent company to work for, they treat their employees well, my manager is great, the pay is actually pretty decent for the work you do etc. But I'd much rather be going to sleep at 3am than waking up.

His position sounds just like mine, I've been unemployed since September of last year, and finally after my unemployment ran out and nothing panned out for me I took a holiday temp position here, too.

So, I haven't had any employment, or even anything I can put down on my resume (besides attending school) to show what occurred in that time gap until Costco. I'm leaning towards listing it, as I've scarcely even got a "no thanks" from companies I've applied with, and I can't help but think it's due to how long I've been unemployed, because I'm certainly qualified for the positions I've been applying for.
There's no solid answer for this..

I've been on hiring panels and I wouldn't care that you worked at Costco, I've had friends that refuse to hire anyone that ever worked at McDonalds (I don't know why)

I think the employment gap is worse than Costco though, only thing worse is a string of 2-3 month jobs.

If the economy was stronger I'd see more "damage" from a Costco position, but at the moment...
Kind of my thoughts, considering the economy I feel like it can be overlooked.

Chidoro - I'm applying for Quality Assurance, Business Analyst and some tech support jobs with a variety of companies.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Chidoro »

Then is doesn't really serve any purpose to put it in. If the question of 'what have you been doing' comes up, you can advise them what you have been up to.
If they are screening for candidates, you resume needs to tell someone why you would be a good fit. It's far more important to customize it for different opportunities (match key words, prioritize experiences, etc).

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Bubba Grizz »

If you are applying for Tech Support jobs, play up your customer service skills. Most likely you will be talking with the end user trying to figure out what they hell they did. That means you need to keep steady, keep them happy, and talk them through the problem in order to find the resolution. Don't let them piss you off. And NEVER spit in their face. :wink:

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Bubba Grizz wrote:If you are applying for Tech Support jobs, play up your customer service skills. Most likely you will be talking with the end user trying to figure out what they hell they did. That means you need to keep steady, keep them happy, and talk them through the problem in order to find the resolution. Don't let them piss you off. And NEVER spit in their face. :wink:
Haha, yeah I've done tech support in the past, but its been a while.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by masteen »

Bubba Grizz wrote:If you are applying for Tech Support jobs, play up your customer service skills. Most likely you will be talking with the end user trying to figure out what they hell they did. That means you need to keep steady, keep them happy, and talk them through the problem in order to find the resolution. Don't let them piss you off. And NEVER spit in their face. :wink:
Don't you people have remote control software? You actually have to troubleshoot through the goddamn users?
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Bubba Grizz »

masteen wrote:
Bubba Grizz wrote:If you are applying for Tech Support jobs, play up your customer service skills. Most likely you will be talking with the end user trying to figure out what they hell they did. That means you need to keep steady, keep them happy, and talk them through the problem in order to find the resolution. Don't let them piss you off. And NEVER spit in their face. :wink:
Don't you people have remote control software? You actually have to troubleshoot through the goddamn users?
The hope is that you will be able to teach them not to do this again. I connect to 80% or so of the people who call in because it is easier and quicker and you can show them that, "Yes, there is a Programs and Features in your control panel". I feel you need to talk to the people so that they can better explain what the hell they were doing when the error came up. Most of the trouble can be found between the monitor and the chair.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Boogahz »

Funkmasterr wrote:I'm currently working a shitty early morning stock position at Costco because I've been unable to find a decent job in over a year now. What I'm trying to decide on is whether I should include this job on my resume to show that I am at least employed. I've done some searching online and I've found conflicting opinions, but figured maybe someone here would have some insight.

P.S. No one should have to work at 4am, no one.
Spoke to one of our hiring supervisors, and she said that it is becoming more of a "norm" for the underemployed to be more "hirable" than the unemployed. There are apparently some companies that will ditch those resumes that show recent couch management positions.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Boogahz wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I'm currently working a shitty early morning stock position at Costco because I've been unable to find a decent job in over a year now. What I'm trying to decide on is whether I should include this job on my resume to show that I am at least employed. I've done some searching online and I've found conflicting opinions, but figured maybe someone here would have some insight.

P.S. No one should have to work at 4am, no one.
Spoke to one of our hiring supervisors, and she said that it is becoming more of a "norm" for the underemployed to be more "hirable" than the unemployed. There are apparently some companies that will ditch those resumes that show recent couch management positions.
Thanks boog, that's the kind of info I was hoping to find! I'll keep it on the resume then.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Boogahz »

plus you can always make up some bs way that the job experience applies to the one you're applying for :P

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Precisely what I was thinking. :lol:

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Re: Resume advice

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Bubba Grizz wrote:The hope is that you will be able to teach them not to do this again.
hahhahahahahahahahahahaha
...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahas (continue for 5 minutes)

Much like showing a money how to open a coconut with a hammer most of the time.
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Re: Resume advice

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Spoke to one of our hiring supervisors, and she said that it is becoming more of a "norm" for the underemployed to be more "hirable" than the unemployed. There are apparently some companies that will ditch those resumes that show recent couch management positions.
Ours said the same a while back, she called it "stop-loss" employment and was a positive thing showing you'll do what's needed to get the job done. Feeding yourself and paying the bills in this case.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

How does being previously self employed look on resumes? I have been working for myself since 2009, and still do. But, now my business is having issues, and may fold. I am building a little bot army to make cash in games, but if everything goes south, I may have to attempt to find a real job (even if only temporarily) in the near future.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Leonaerd »

How does being previously self employed look on resumes?
If you have to ask... not as good as it usually would.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Leonaerd wrote:
How does being previously self employed look on resumes?
If you have to ask... not as good as it usually would.
Lol, well I would not ask a potential employer. I was just curious.

So, it normally does look good? I was quite successful in what I do / did.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Leonaerd »

Think about it. A business owner has competence, initiative, goals, motivation, works well with others, manages well, makes decisions, multitasks...... Present it to HR in a good way and it will reflect well.

If you have to ask.... ;-)

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Bubba Grizz »

Not if his business was a total flop. If you were successful you wouldn't need to be looking for a job. Unless you got bought out.

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Re: Resume advice

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Asheran wrote:I was quite successful in what I do / did.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »


Not if his business was a total flop. If you were successful you wouldn't need to be looking for a job. Unless you got bought out.
Not a flop at all. We knew from early on that the business model would stop being possible once new FCC regulations came into effect. The telephone company we were working with ran into some issues of their own, and decided to shut down early rather than spend time and money on something that had less than a year of life left.

We are in talks with another telephone company to get started again, but no matter what it will go down by the end of 2013. So far, it has made over $2 million profit, so it isn't anything close to a flop :)
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Bubba Grizz »

No offense was intended. I meant "his" in the generic everyman kind of way. If I had read a resume that had Self Employed on it I think it would bear more scrutiny. Good or bad, I'm just saying it would raise some flags in the interview.

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Re: Resume advice

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And of courses if you were doing something sleazy how you word it is important :).

I used to support customers running websites from Bermuda, I'm reasonably certain sure my employer didn't know what they actually did.
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Re: Resume advice

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Yeah, mine wasn't exactly sleazy, but some people would see parts of it as such. We did conferencing lines, but they were mostly party lines. People talking on phones in chat room style settings. A large number of them were shady, and had girls that would talk in "sexy" voices ad flirt to keep guys on there. A few gay lines too.

Of course, we also had a line for blind people (lots of newly blind people would come there for help) and a line for a few Amish communities.

If I had to tell a potential employer what it was, I would say business conferencing lines, because we did that as well. Maybe mention the permanent line we had for the blind community.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Winnow »

I'd mention the Amish conference line as well. It never hurts to mention Amish people.

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Re: Resume advice

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Winnow wrote:I'd mention the Amish conference line as well. It never hurts to mention Amish people.
I was surprised they were willing to use phone chat lines. It seems that is how all of the Amish communities stay in contact. One of our competitors had a huge Amish line that connected communities around North America. They would have giant meetings between the elders on it.
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Re: Resume advice

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Porn and gambling, the two cornerstones of the modern internet.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

I'm getting into the gambling side now with D3 botting. Made $100 today!
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Re: Resume advice

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I think your botting is sleazier than the porn chat lines :P
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Re: Resume advice

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Zaelath wrote:I think your botting is sleazier than the porn chat lines :P
Yep, but it can be extremely lucrative.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Winnow »

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:
Zaelath wrote:I think your botting is sleazier than the porn chat lines :P
Yep, but it can be extremely lucrative.
You should definitely read or listen to Corey Doctorow's, "For the Win" novel. It's available for free in a bazillion formats here:

http://craphound.com/ftw/download/
In the virtual future, you must organize to survive

At any hour of the day or night, millions of people around the globe are engrossed in multiplayer online games, questing and battling to win virtual “gold,” jewels, and precious artifacts. Meanwhile, others seek to exploit this vast shadow economy, running electronic sweatshops in the world’s poorest countries, where countless “gold farmers,” bound to their work by abusive contracts and physical threats, harvest virtual treasure for their employers to sell to First World gamers who are willing to spend real money to skip straight to higher-level gameplay.

Mala is a brilliant 15-year-old from rural India whose leadership skills in virtual combat have earned her the title of “General Robotwalla.” In Shenzen, heart of China’s industrial boom, Matthew is defying his former bosses to build his own successful gold-farming team. Leonard, who calls himself Wei-Dong, lives in Southern California, but spends his nights fighting virtual battles alongside his buddies in Asia, a world away. All of these young people, and more, will become entangled with the mysterious young woman called Big Sister Nor, who will use her experience, her knowledge of history, and her connections with real-world organizers to build them into a movement that can challenge the status quo.

The ruthless forces arrayed against them are willing to use any means to protect their power—including blackmail, extortion, infiltration, violence, and even murder. To survive, Big Sister’s people must out-think the system. This will lead them to devise a plan to crash the economy of every virtual world at once—a Ponzi scheme combined with a brilliant hack that ends up being the biggest, funnest game of all.

Imbued with the same lively, subversive spirit and thrilling storytelling that made LITTLE BROTHER an international sensation, FOR THE WIN is a prophetic and inspiring call-to-arms for a new generation
I also enjoyed, "Little Brother" by Corey Doctorow about a high school kid, playing a GPS game that gets locked up and accused of being a terrorist in San Francisco by homeland security. The book even includes LARPing! He also has a newer book out called, "Pirate Cinema"

Totally off topic, but this is a great video:

Shmoocon 2012: Lessons of the Kobayashi Maru: Cheating is Fundamental

Students are instructed to cheat on a test at the Cyber Security Research Center. Some of the cheating methods are great.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Zaelath »

I know it's popular to say, "if you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough." But I don't buy it.

I know Winnow still likes the Aion, but I found it was unplayable after the bots moved into all the newb areas, so they were farming for the few higher level players and cut off their entire supply of new suckers that might enter the game.

D3 is probably a bit different, I never bothered with that so I can't comment on it.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Zaelath wrote:I know it's popular to say, "if you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough." But I don't buy it.

I know Winnow still likes the Aion, but I found it was unplayable after the bots moved into all the newb areas, so they were farming for the few higher level players and cut off their entire supply of new suckers that might enter the game.

D3 is probably a bit different, I never bothered with that so I can't comment on it.
To cheat you have to be benefitting in the game from breaking the rules. In not using any of my botted stuff to play D3. I'm just selling it. Even the gear I have on my bots that they use to farm is legit. I built them by selling all of my barb's gear when I got bored of the game.
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Winnow »

Zaelath wrote: I know Winnow still likes the Aion, but I found it was unplayable after the bots moved into all the newb areas, so they were farming for the few higher level players and cut off their entire supply of new suckers that might enter the game.
Dunno about low level bots. I have established high end characters. It's easy enough to make kinah (money) without cheating at least at the higher levels. There's a fast track channel you can go to if you want to power level up secondary characters with double XP and no PvP. The fast track channel might also be good for newbies.

The fun part for me in the game is doing 6 man PvE dungeons with two people. I suck at PvP so for that I made a cleric and socketed an ungodly amount of block stones which makes me really hard to kill. I focus on healing/dispelling while others that are better at PvP/Offense do their thing.

There's three new classes introduced with 4.0 coming out early next year. (gunner, bard type, and a mech/tank thing) For free, it's an excellent game. 2.5 or 3.0 introduced a graphics overhaul so the already very nice looking game remains one of the best graphically. The UI has constantly improved over the years as well. Character generation is also still one of the best.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

I really want to talk to people in HR and IT at various companies and ask them wtf is going on with online applications. Generally, you upload your resume, and things get populated from it. Most of the time though it seems like job information is not one of those things, and they want you to go through and fucking manually enter all that shit into their web forms. I want to know at what point it was HR people thought they shouldn't do their fucking job and read resume's anymore, and instead dump the shit all into a database so they can query for keywords they may be looking for to fill a position. I'm getting sick and fucking tired of having to spend 30 minutes to apply for a job because they can't just take my resume and fucking read it like they are supposed to.

From now on if there is a field to leave comments in, I'm not adding any job information and I'll note that it's all listed in the resume they asked me to upload. I mean seriously, wtf?

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Boogahz »

When everyone was losing their jobs, the number of applicants skyrocketed

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Well tough crap though. The solution then is to expand your HR department, not completely take away the personalization of HR going through resumes away and opting to make everyone a row in their database.

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Re: Resume advice

Post by Boogahz »

Who will read the app of the 200+ applicants for each new HR position? :P

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Funkmasterr
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

I get that it's a challenge, but figure it out somehow. I just don't believe approaching the hiring process in such a robotic way is the best way for anyone involved in the long run. And it's starting to grate on my nerves after a year of having to enter the shit in over and over and over when I have a resume with all the information.

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Aabidano
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Aabidano »

Getting past HR is the biggest challenge, inserting the right buzzwords so your data gets seen at all is the first problem.

Second is managers putting things in as mandatory experience that really don't matter at all, if you don't have them you never make it past the HR screen.

Haven't used our circa 1998 VPN solution lately? Too bad, we don't care that you've worked on and created others far more complicated.

I see our managers requiring MSEE w/o option for experience, while requiring other experience no one who would apply for it will have - for junior systems engineer jobs paying crap, then wonder why it never gets filled. Anyone with some basic (basic to me) telecom/IT design experience and a lot of creativity can do it.

Just hired an amazing kid with a masters in applied mathematics, had he not done an internship with us he'd never have made it past HR.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."

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Funkmasterr
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aabidano wrote:Getting past HR is the biggest challenge, inserting the right buzzwords so your data gets seen at all is the first problem.

Second is managers putting things in as mandatory experience that really don't matter at all, if you don't have them you never make it past the HR screen.

Haven't used our circa 1998 VPN solution lately? Too bad, we don't care that you've worked on and created others far more complicated.

I see our managers requiring MSEE w/o option for experience, while requiring other experience no one who would apply for it will have - for junior systems engineer jobs paying crap, then wonder why it never gets filled. Anyone with some basic telecom/IT design experience and a lot of creativity can do it.

Just hired an amazing kid with a masters in applied mathematics, had he not done an internship with us he'd never have made it past HR.
Yeah, that's another big source of my frustration. I see so many jobs I could do easily that have absolutely ridiculous requirements. They're trying to get someone who wouldn't work for less than 60k/year for a job paying 35. And I see those jobs posted over and over. You think they'd pull their heads out of their asses and make their requirements more realistic.

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Asheran Mojomaster
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Re: Resume advice

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

My step father was running into that problem. He is at a different level, and was looking for a job at the $100,000-$150,000 range, because his previous employer was bought out, and the new company kept him on but he could see they were phasing him out.

He has no degree, but a lot of experience and certifications, and every job he came across either wanted to pay him $60,000 or less, or required him to have a degree in computer science / computer engineering / something with computers, even though he had spent the past 7 years or so working above many college grads and basically re-educating them, because the way they were taught is so backwards.

But, he eventually got "lucky", and is in a really strange situation now. Some giant, multinational conglomerate based out of India hired him for a new department, but when he got started there was a lot of drama going on. Eventually, this drama lead to his boss, and his boss's boss being fired, along with a handful of other people he had been working with.

He had completely stayed out of the drama, and was just waiting on them to give him something to do (it was suppose to be about 60% work from home, 40% travel), but he just never heard anything. He has sent emails, attended meetings where no one else showed up, and monitors a small handful of things, but is receiving basically no communication beyond the company wide emails, or automatically generated video meetings (that also ends up being just him). Hell, he even got a sort of "automatic promotion" because when his bosses were fired, no one replaced them, so that put him directly under a guy that is very, very high in the company. He gets bonuses randomly now, and basically spends his time sitting at home, screwing around, and waiting on someone to give him something to do.

Funny thing is, he really wants to work. He is going stir crazy, and really enjoys what he does, but is afraid to push anyone too hard to look into it, because they may just get rid of him in that case, and he cannot afford to be without a job for any period of time.

This has been going on for months.
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