I've been a vegetarian for two days.

[masteen]

HAY GUSY I'M BEEN BREATHARIAN FOR TWO DAIS AND YOU ARE ALL FUCKING DICKBAGS AND HIPPERCRATS FOR EATING MATERIAL AND DRINKING FLUIDS! IVE NEVER BEEN HEALTHEER AND HAVE SO MUCH MORE ENERGY SINCE I STOPPED TAKING IN CALORIES!1!!!

[Spang]

You don't even have to do any research, really. Common sense works, too. Common sense tells me that a dairy cow isn't producing that milk for humans, but for the calf it recently shat out. All the women of the world, after they give birth, produce milk. They're not doing it for some other species; they're doing it for their own babies. Every milk-producing animal does this for the exact same reason. That's science. That's fucking fact, you can't refute that.

[Aslanna]

You don't even have to do any research, really. Common sense works, too. Common sense tells me that a dairy cow isn't producing that milk for humans, but for the calf it recently shat out. All the women of the world, after they give birth, produce milk. They're not doing it for some other species; they're doing it for their own babies. Every milk-producing animal does this for the exact same reason. That's science. That's fucking fact, you can't refute that.

Oh look another illogical rant.

We've already been through this.. Just like every fruit producing plant doesn't produce fruits and vegetables for humans it's for their own reproduction. The fact that you CAN eat them is no different than you being able to drink milk or enjoy some tasty yogurt.

Oh and another science fact: Baby cows aren't "shat out". You might want to look into that while you're raping their mothers.

[Aabidano]

So when we aren't busy pooping out babies (grossly impacted turds come to life?) we're pooping out happy tomato plants, etc.. in a prebuilt fertilizer pod...

[Spang]

The fact that you CAN eat them is no different than you being able to drink milk or enjoy some tasty yogurt.

You're not drinking cows milk, though. You're drinking some pasteurized, processed bullshit. You might be able to drink cows milk straight from the udder, but that would be unnatural. As a human, you're supposed to be sucking your mommy's titties, but only during the early stages of life. After that, you don't need milk of any kind anymore. You can get plenty of calcium through the foods you eat. However, if you absolutely must consume milk, there's hemp, soy, coconut and rice milk for you, that doesn't require the torture and eventual slaughter of an animal to consume.

[Tyek]

The fact that you CAN eat them is no different than you being able to drink milk or enjoy some tasty yogurt.

You're not drinking cows milk, though. You're drinking some pasteurized, processed bullshit. You might be able to drink cows milk straight from the udder, but that would be unnatural. As a human, you're supposed to be sucking your mommy's titties, but only during the early stages of life. After that, you don't need milk of any kind anymore. You can get plenty of calcium through the foods you eat. However, if you absolutely must consume milk, there's hemp, soy, coconut and rice milk for you, that doesn't require the torture and eventual slaughter of an animal to consume.

I could never do that, it might lead to Soy Rape.

[masteen]

The fact that you CAN eat them is no different than you being able to drink milk or enjoy some tasty yogurt.

You're not drinking cows milk, though. You're drinking some pasteurized, processed bullshit. You might be able to drink cows milk straight from the udder, but that would be unnatural. As a human, you're supposed to be sucking your mommy's titties, but only during the early stages of life. After that, you don't need milk of any kind anymore. You can get plenty of calcium through the foods you eat. However, if you absolutely must consume milk, there's hemp, soy, coconut and rice milk for you, that doesn't require the torture and eventual slaughter of an animal to consume.

Actually, genetic research indicates that 2 separate sub-populations of humans have adapted to a moo-juice-inclusive diet in the 10,000 years since we domesticated animals. If you're not lactose intolerant, you're part of one of those populations.

So not only did we evolve from meat-eating monkeys, we're STILL evolving towards increased use of animal products. But I shouldn't be surprised you're ignorant of this fact.

[Spang]

So not only did we evolve from meat-eating monkeys...

The vast majority of a chimpanzee's diet is plant-based.

[masteen]

We didn't evolve from chimps, dumbass. Our last common ancestor was 14,000,000 years and 3 species ago. The fact that chimps still haven't evolved completely away from it, despite existing in an ecosystem without a great abundance of prey actually reinforces my point.

[Winnow]

Thank you Spang.

I'm convinced that my skull is too small to contain my brain. When I start flexing my brain muscles it creates incredible pressure in my head to the point where I feel my fucking skull is going to blow apart like in Scanners the movie. It used to cause me panic attacks but now what I do is pull up your post history and start reading which eases the pressure by feeding my brain with nonsensical gibberish, allowing nothing thought provoking to enter my mind.

[Xyun]

You don't even have to do any research, really. Common sense works, too. Common sense tells me that a dairy cow isn't producing that milk for humans, but for the calf it recently shat out. All the women of the world, after they give birth, produce milk. They're not doing it for some other species; they're doing it for their own babies. Every milk-producing animal does this for the exact same reason. That's science. That's fucking fact, you can't refute that.

That's not science you moron, that's propaganda. And you are a hypocrite. Backpedal faster!

[Spang]

You don't even have to do any research, really. Common sense works, too. Common sense tells me that a dairy cow isn't producing that milk for humans, but for the calf it recently shat out. All the women of the world, after they give birth, produce milk. They're not doing it for some other species; they're doing it for their own babies. Every milk-producing animal does this for the exact same reason. That's science. That's fucking fact, you can't refute that.

That's not science you moron, that's propaganda.

You only consider it propaganda because you don't believe the science.

[Canelek]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

[Aslanna]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

Where have you been? He's been zapping your brain with science facts since DAY ONE!

[Canelek]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

Where have you been? He's been zapping your brain with science facts since DAY ONE!

Is that what that was? Damn, I stand keerecticated.

[Spang]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

Milk-producing animals produce milk for their offspring.

[Aslanna]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

Milk-producing animals produce milk for their offspring.

Fruit producing plants produce fruit for the purposes of reproduction.

[Spang]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

Milk-producing animals produce milk for their offspring.

Fruit producing plants produce fruit for the purposes of reproduction.

And to feed herbivores, such as humans.

[Lynks]

Have you ever asked a cow or a tree what they want? You assume too much.

How can you say we are able to eat 1 thing from nature (fruits) but can't eat/drink the other (milk)? Both are living things. Trees too. Who are you to decide what is acceptable? Get off your high horse you preachy hypocrite.

[Spang]

Get off your high horse you preachy hypocrite.

How does eating insentient fruits and vegetables while not eating sentient animals make me a hypocrite?

[Lynks]

Are you saying that milk is sentient?

[Spang]

Are you saying that milk is sentient?

I'm saying cows are sentient.

[Canelek]

Cows are self-aware? Pray tell how you know?

[Aslanna]

I'm saying Spang is not sentient.

[Spang]

Cows are self-aware?

Yes.

Pray tell how you know?

Science.

There is no doubt that animals suffer and cry out for help when they're being prepared for meals - from the way they're raised, transported to the torture chambers of factory farms, handled when awaiting their own slaughter while hearing, seeing, and smelling the slaughter of others, and having a bolt driven into their brain, far too often inefficiently, so that they're not instantaneously rendered unconscious as existing laws require.

There is no credible evidence that plants are sentient and suffer and feel pain or that they have a conscious desire to live. Vegetables don't suffer when they're prepared for meals, wok-fried, steamed, or otherwise cooked. Plants show intriguing and sophisticated tropisms - automatic reflexive responses to various environmental conditions - and do communicate with one another, but they don't have intentions and desires as do many animals.

Claims about animal sentience are not overblown or speculative, whereas claims about sentience in plants are entirely speculative.

[Canelek]

So that is probably good that they do not directly know about your rape-fantasies. Lucky them? Or dooo they?

And lol. Sciencelink really? That article is not a science piece. It is subjective posturing. Objectivity...not present there.

So, let's be serious about food choices and ask that our critics also be serious about their tongue-in-cheek criticisms. We can easily reduce suffering and increase our "compassion footprint" by being vegetarians and vegans. Of this there is no doubt. We're all responsible for the decisions we make. We vegans don't have to defend or apologize for our humane and ethical choices. If in the future we learn that some plants are sentient we will have to change our ways but as yet I'm happy to be a vegan and don't feel guilty for eating a non-protesting brussels sprout.

la lal la loller-land

[Tyek]

I am confused, but obviously I am not as intelligent as you. Are you saying that plants made a decision to create fruit and vegetables for us to eat, but then saying they are not sentient? Wouldn't that imply some sort of higher thinking? Please enlighten me oh wise one, my mind is weak from meat and I need to understand.

[Aabidano]

Cows are self-aware? Pray tell how you know?

Walt Disney said so.

I keep thinking of planned parenthood for cows, Bessie and Beavis are debating if they want to have another calf as it's jut going to be eaten anyway.

You could switch over to tentacle rape, cephalopods have 3 hearts so they're three times as feeling.

[Aslanna]

Ok. Lay some science on us.

Milk-producing animals produce milk for their offspring.

Fruit producing plants produce fruit for the purposes of reproduction.

And to feed herbivores, such as humans.

Oh and by the way we are omnivores. Our bodies were designed for both despite what your propaganda says. While vegetarians may CHOOSE to eat as herbivores, due to reasons of their own, that doesn't make it science.

[Aabidano]

I went over to Conservapedia hoping for some (lolworthy) "facts" for rebuttal material, they didn't have much past:

In excess, soy can lead to feminization and homosexuality in boys.
In addition, soy has been linked to thyroid problems that may cause fat buildup[1] - with the amount of tofu eaten by liberal atheists, maybe that explains the high rate of obesity among atheists?

I was disappointed.

[Lynks]

Herbivores tend to have well-developed flat premolars and molars, often with sharp ridges on the tops. Generally herbivores do not have canine teeth, and their incisors are usually large and used to snip off foliage from branches. Because herbivores are often prey for other animals, they generally have their eyes on the side of their head, which functions to gibe them a wider field of view, so that they can detect their prey earlier, and have a chance to flee.

Omnivores usually have a variety of all kinds of teeth. Humans, bears and raccoons are omnivores, since they eat all kinds of food (both meat and plant material) they need all kinds of teeth. Generally omnivores have eyes on the front of their heads like carnivores, in order to best catch their prey.

[miir]

Trying to argue that humans are herbivores is as ridiculous as trying to argue that they are carnivores.

[Lynks]

If that was directed at me, I'm not saying either. I'm saying we are built like omnivores. Science!

[Aabidano]

Trying to argue that humans are herbivores is as ridiculous as trying to argue that they are carnivores.

Unless you're an Inuit of course

Interesting:

...Stefansson and a colleague lived on a meat-only diet for one year under medical supervision at New York's Bellevue Hospital, starting in February 1928. The two ate between 100 and 140 grams of protein a day, the balance of their calories coming from fat, yet they remained scurvy free. Later in life Stefansson became a strong advocate of a high-meat diet even if you didn't live in the arctic; he professed to enjoy improved health, reduced weight, etc, from meals consisting of coffee, the occasional grapefruit, and a nice steak, presumably rare.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... get-scurvy

[Spang]

Generally omnivores have eyes on the front of their heads like carnivores, in order to best catch their prey.

Good luck trying to catch prey without any tools or weapons. If humans were true omnivores they'd have the natural ability to catch animals with their bare hands. And they'd be able to eat those animals without doing anything special to them, like butchering and cooking. Humans would also salivate at the sight of dead, rotting corpses if they were true omnivores.

Also, plenty of herbivores have canines--gorillas, for example, which don't have eyes on the sides of their heads, either. Oh, and humans.

[Canelek]

Lol what? Salivate over carcasses? That would be scavengers, like vultures, hyenas, or you and your buddies digging through dumpsters to find cans to pay for your Internet cafe fees.

[Aabidano]

Humans would also salivate at the sight of dead, rotting corpses if they were true omnivores.

Another area we've already covered, our digestive system is already well adapted to eating carrion. Would take a generation or two to get back into it without ill effect.

If you've a large brain and can build tools, "built in" tools and characteristics become less and less needed allowing you to generalize further.

[Lynks]

Generally omnivores have eyes on the front of their heads like carnivores, in order to best catch their prey.

Good luck trying to catch prey without any tools or weapons. If humans were true omnivores they'd have the natural ability to catch animals with their bare hands. And they'd be able to eat those animals without doing anything special to them, like butchering and cooking. Humans would also salivate at the sight of dead, rotting corpses if they were true omnivores.

Also, plenty of herbivores have canines--gorillas, for example, which don't have eyes on the sides of their heads, either. Oh, and humans.

It's called evolution. We no longer have the need to catch our prey with our bare hands. Our brains evolved to the point we can create tools to make it easier on us. Also, there are quite a few animals that use tools too.

Otters will use rocks to smash open shells. By your argument, it's unnatural for them to eat that since they aren't using their bare hands. But there they are, eating what you claim they shouldn't be eating.

[Bubba Grizz]

Well I must admit that I do salivate at the sight of a nice sirloin or ribeye before it is cooked. But that may also be in anticipation of grilling it to a nice medium well. I suppose one could be conditioned to salivate over roadkill much like Pavlov's dog.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

[Aslanna]

Good luck trying to catch prey without any tools or weapons. If humans were true omnivores they'd have the natural ability to catch animals with their bare hands. And they'd be able to eat those animals without doing anything special to them, like butchering and cooking. Humans would also salivate at the sight of dead, rotting corpses if they were true omnivores.

Also, plenty of herbivores have canines--gorillas, for example, which don't have eyes on the sides of their heads, either. Oh, and humans.

Wow look at all those science facts! That was a blitz to the senses. You need to tone that shit back to maybe one science fact per post.

Oh and humans, as a species, aren't herbivores. Nice try sneaking that in there!

[Aabidano]

And of course there's our ability to run long distances, an evolutionary adaptation that no herbivore has a use for. Horses had to be bread for a long time to reach their currrent state.

Speed over a short distance gets you away from the predator and ahead of the sick\old animals in the herd.

[Aslanna]

And of course there's our ability to run long distances, an evolutionary adaptation that no herbivore has a use for. Horses had to be bread for a long time to reach their currrent state.

Speed over a short distance gets you away from the predator and ahead of the sick\old animals in the herd.

Gazelles are speedy and don't eat meat. Therefore your argument holds no weight in Spang's bazarro world. Obviously the speed is to get away from meat eaters since we're meat!

[Boogahz]

And of course there's our ability to run long distances, an evolutionary adaptation that no herbivore has a use for. Horses had to be bread for a long time to reach their currrent state.

Speed over a short distance gets you away from the predator and ahead of the sick\old animals in the herd.

Gazelles are speedy and don't eat meat. Therefore your argument holds no weight in Spang's bazarro world. Obviously the speed is to get away from meat eaters since we're meat!

Have you ever caught a gazelle to confirm this?

[miir]

Have you ever caught a gazelle to confirm this?

With my bare hands, yes!

[Boogahz]

Have you ever caught a gazelle to confirm this?

With my bare hands, yes!

using an ipad to track it does not count


but if you can catch the gazelle, you must be a meat-eater!

[Winnow]

Reminder to post a book review for "Unbroken". Relevance to this thread is all the raw fish, sharks and birds they ate while marooned for 40 days on a raft in the south Pacific. (before getting the crap beat out of them by the Japanese for several years during WWII in prison camps)

[Tyek]

Please post your college thesis when you finish it, I want to read all the science you put into it because the ones here are fascinating.

For the record, I have never salivated seeing a peach or apple laying in the dirt either, does that mean I should not eat anything?

[masteen]

Our "tool" for hunting in a non-social, aboriginal context is our bipedal stance and amazing endurance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoi ... r_embedded

[Aabidano]

Gazelles are speedy and don't eat meat.

But not for long distances, and bludgeoning then with a iPad in your tentacle doesn't count.