I've been a vegetarian for two days.

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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Funkmasterr »

This thread is slowly going from being funny to being just downright sad. And I don't mean sad in a "oh it's so sad that baby cow just got smashed over the head and chopped up so I could get veal at Macaroni Grill" way...
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

The Myths of Vegetarianism

Happy reading. It's filled with research and stuff so you probably shouldn't read it.
In the scientific literature, there are surprisingly few studies done on vegetarian longevity. Russell Smith, PhD, in his massive review study on heart disease, showed that as animal product consumption increased among some study groups, death rates actually decreased! Such results were not obtained among vegetarian subjects. For example, in a study published by Burr and Sweetnam in 1982, analysis of mortality data revealed that, although vegetarians had a slightly (.11%) lower rate of heart disease than non-vegetarians, the all-cause death rate was much higher for vegetarians
the largely vegetarian Hindus of southern India have the shortest life-spans in the world, partly because of a lack of food, but also because of a distinct lack of animal protein in their diets
And in response to your "humans weren't designed to eat meat" mantra:
MYTH #11: The human body is not designed for meat consumption.

Some vegetarian groups claim that since humans possess grinding teeth like herbivorous animals and longer intestines than carnivorous animals, this proves the human body is better suited for vegetarianism . This argument fails to note several human physiological features which clearly indicate a design for animal product consumption.

First and foremost is our stomach's production of hydrochloric acid, something not found in herbivores. HCL activates protein-splitting enzymes. Further, the human pancreas manufactures a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable. Further, Dr. Walter Voegtlin's in-depth comparison of the human digestive system with that of the dog, a carnivore, and a sheep, a herbivore, clearly shows that we are closer in anatomy to the carnivorous dog than the herbivorous sheep.

While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores, nor do we chew cud. Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder, or an omnivore, much the same as our relatives, the mountain gorilla and chimpanzee who all have been observed eating small animals and, in some cases, other primates.
Dr. Abrams said it well when he wrote:

Humans have always been meat-eaters. The fact that no human society is entirely vegetarian, and those that are almost entirely vegetarian suffer from debilitated conditions of health, seems unequivocally to prove that a plant diet must be supplemented with at least a minimum amount of animal protein to sustain health. Humans are meat-eaters and always have been. Humans are also vegetable eaters and always have been, but plant foods must be supplemented by an ample amount of animal protein to maintain optimal health.
Oh how can that be... You can't eat meat and have "optimal health" in Spang's bizarro world!

This thread had promise when you were just an amusing troll.. I'll give you props for sticking to your guns but now it's just a pathetic display of self-righteousness.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

See: Whale Whores

I still find it amusing in a sad way. Plus am doing some testing that gives me time to troll :)

My guess is he's being lead around by the johnson by a new a vegan girl\boy friend. Or trying to get into ones pants and got sucked up in the crazy. This isn't something I've seen someone dive into on their own.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Sylvus wrote:Let's assume that all of your proselytizing works, and the entire world switches to being vegan tomorrow.
That's unrealistic, it would never happen.
Sylvus wrote:What do you think happens to the billions of cows in the world?
Setting all the farm animals free would be unreasonable and irresponsible.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Aabidano wrote:This isn't something I've seen someone dive into on their own.
Now you have.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

If a vegan diet is so healthy, why do vegans need to take supplements for things like B12, O3FA, etc?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

miir wrote:If a vegan diet is so healthy, why do vegans need to take supplements for things like B12, O3FA, etc?
so they don't DIE!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

miir wrote:If a vegan diet is so healthy, why do vegans need to take supplements for things like B12, O3FA, etc?
Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:
miir wrote:If a vegan diet is so healthy, why do vegans need to take supplements for things like B12, O3FA, etc?
Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
From the linked article which you chose to ignore.. Or are still reading it. Either way I will help you out: A doctor seems to disagree with you...
MYTH #2: Vitamin B12 can be obtained from plant sources.

Of all the myths, this is perhaps the most dangerous. While lacto and lacto-ovo vegetarians have sources of vitamin B12 in their diets (from dairy products and eggs), vegans (total vegetarians) do not. Vegans who do not supplement their diet with vitamin B12 will eventually get anemia (a fatal condition) as well as severe nervous and digestive system damage; most, if not all, vegans have impaired B12 metabolism and every study of vegan groups has demonstrated low vitamin B12 concentrations in the majority of individuals (11). Several studies have been done documenting B12 deficiencies in vegan children, often with dire consequences (12). Additionally, claims are made in vegan and vegetarian literature that B12 is present in certain algae, tempeh (a fermented soy product) and Brewer's yeast. All of them are false as vitamin B12 is only found in animal foods. Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 naturally; they are always fortified from an outside source.

There is not real B12 in plant sources but B12 analogues--they are similar to true B12, but not exactly the same and because of this they are not bioavailable (13). It should be noted here that these B12 analogues can impair absorption of true vitamin B12 in the body due to competitive absorption, placing vegans and vegetarians who consume lots of soy, algae, and yeast at a greater risk for a deficiency (14).

Some vegetarian authorities claim that B12 is produced by certain fermenting bacteria in the lower intestines. This may be true, but it is in a form unusable by the body. B12 requires intrinsic factor from the stomach for proper absorption in the ileum. Since the bacterial product does not have intrinsic factor bound to it, it cannot be absorbed (15).

It is true that Hindu vegans living in certain parts of India do not suffer from vitamin B12 deficiency. This has led some to conclude that plant foods do provide this vitamin. This conclusion, however, is erroneous as many small insects, their feces, eggs, larvae and/or residue, are left on the plant foods these people consume, due to non-use of pesticides and inefficient cleaning methods. This is how these people obtain their vitamin B12. This contention is borne out by the fact that when vegan Indian Hindus later migrated to England, they came down with megaloblastic anaemia within a few years. In England, the food supply is cleaner, and insect residues are completely removed from plant foods (16).

The only reliable and absorbable sources of vitamin B12 are animal products, especially organ meats and eggs (17). Though present in lesser amounts than meat and eggs, dairy products do contain B12. Vegans, therefore, should consider adding dairy products into their diets. If dairy cannot be tolerated, eggs, preferably from free-run hens, are a virtual necessity.

That vitamin B12 can only be obtained from animal foods is one of the strongest arguments against veganism being a "natural" way of human eating. Today, vegans can avoid anemia by taking supplemental vitamins or fortified foods. If those same people had lived just a few decades ago, when these products were unavailable, they would have died.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Funkmasterr »

Checkmate?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
From the linked article which you chose to ignore.. Or are still reading it. Either way I will help you out: A doctor seems to disagree with you...
No animal or plant produces vitamin B12.

Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Funkmasterr wrote:Checkmate?
Not remotely.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

Spang wrote:Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
Dr Gina Shaw is a natural hygiene practitioner and Dr. Vivian V. Vetrano is a chiropractor :lol:

Not the type of doctors I would go to for nutritional advice.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

miir wrote:
Spang wrote:Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
Dr Gina Shaw is a natural hygiene practitioner and Dr. Vivian V. Vetrano is a chiropractor :lol:

Not the type of doctors I would go to for nutritional advice.
Dr. Stephen Byrnes, the gentleman who wrote the article Aslanna posted, died of a stroke. Also, he was a member of this organization.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:Dr. Stephen Byrnes, the gentleman who wrote the article Aslanna posted, died of a stroke.
So vegetarians don't have strokes? Don't get cancer? Don't have heart attacks? I'm not sure of the relevance of your statement
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

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Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:Dr. Stephen Byrnes, the gentleman who wrote the article Aslanna posted, died of a stroke.
So vegetarians don't have strokes? Don't get cancer? Don't have heart attacks? I'm not sure of the relevance of your statement
Dr. Byrnes' affiliation with the Weston A. Price Foundation, an anti-vegan/vegetarian organization, is a greater concern. Anyone can get a stroke, cancer or a heart attack, but a healthy vegan diet will rarely, if ever, be the cause.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
From the linked article which you chose to ignore.. Or are still reading it. Either way I will help you out: A doctor seems to disagree with you...
No animal or plant produces vitamin B12.

Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
uh, really? How else is it found in animal products rather than plant products?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Boogahz wrote:
Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
From the linked article which you chose to ignore.. Or are still reading it. Either way I will help you out: A doctor seems to disagree with you...
No animal or plant produces vitamin B12.

Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
uh, really? How else is it found in animal products rather than plant products?
No animal or plant produces vitamin B12.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
Yeah.. That's more an opinion piece rather than a well researched article with many sources documented so I don't even see how you can compare the two. She cites 3 "sources" one of them being WebMD yet reading that link I see:
WebMD wrote:People who eat a vegan diet and older adults who don't eat a variety of foods may need to take a daily vitamin pill to get enough B12.
How is that not having to take a supplement which you claimed earier was the case:
Spang wrote:Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
You're seriously making my head explode over here.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Magic does not exist like you think it does. Where will you get your magical B12? You still haven't figured that one out, have you?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

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Aslanna wrote:How is that not having to take a supplement which you claimed earier was the case:
Spang wrote:Vegans don't need supplements. Non-vegans don't, either.
You're seriously making my head explode over here.
You only need supplements if you're not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals in the foods you eat.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

miir wrote:Dr Gina Shaw is a natural hygiene practitioner...
She ought to be an authority on why vegans are stinky if nothing else.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Boogahz wrote:Where will you get your magical B12?
From foods fortified with B12.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

Spang wrote:You only need supplements if you're not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals in the foods you eat.
So you're getting it from bugs, feces or from an animal based source. Or you're just not deficient, yet. It takes a while to use up the the stored B12 from your previous diet (iirc).
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:You only need supplements if you're not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals in the foods you eat.
Yeah.. By being a vegan. lolz.
If a person is healthy and on a healthy vegan, high-percentage raw food diet and does not habitually over-eat, wrongly combine their foods and abuse their bodies generally, and utilises fasting on occasion, it is unlikely that they will develop B12 deficiency symptoms providing their intestinal flora was not previously deranged
Holy shit you you'd have an easier time waiting for all the planets to align. And even , according to her, it's "unlikely" which doesn't mean impossible.
In any case, on switching to a healthier diet, be it vegetarian, vegan or raw food (for optimum health), we should go back to nature as much as possible and pay little attention to germ phobics who advise us to scrub our vegetables and fruits. Buy organic and eat home-grown or wild foods and do not clean them too scrupulously! Just as nature intended!.
Also comedy gold. Don't wash them so that you can get your B12 from bugs and stuff. Which was what this was saying (from the article I linked):
It is true that Hindu vegans living in certain parts of India do not suffer from vitamin B12 deficiency. This has led some to conclude that plant foods do provide this vitamin. This conclusion, however, is erroneous as many small insects, their feces, eggs, larvae and/or residue, are left on the plant foods these people consume, due to non-use of pesticides and inefficient cleaning methods. This is how these people obtain their vitamin B12.
So really you're not a vegan as you're still eating living organisms and their unborn babies (and their poop).

So to summarize: Your arguments are a fucking joke. However, I've spent enough time today making you look like an idiot so I'm off to do more productive things. I'll check in later and see how you are doing.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Aabidano wrote:
Spang wrote:You only need supplements if you're not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals in the foods you eat.
So you're getting it from bugs, feces or from an animal based source.
No, currently I'm getting it from a multivitamin that I've been taking for the past two or three years. You only need about 3 micrograms a day.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

Why are you taking multivitamins?

I can understand you taking them when you had an unhealthy, meat eating lifestyle... but now that you're a super ultra healthy vegan, you should have no need for them.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by masteen »

Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.
](*,)
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.

:vv_ban:
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Boogahz wrote:
Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.

:vv_ban:
For taking a multivitamin?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

Unban Spang!

Too early?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.

Stop right there. You're a bona fide (bonafied if you prefer the non Latin version) moron! That's the funniest quote I've seen in some time.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Winnow wrote:
Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.
Stop right there. You're a bona fide (bonafied if you prefer the non Latin version) moron! That's the funniest quote I've seen in some time.
I took the same multivitamin when I was eating animals. Why? In case I wasn't getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I was eating.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Xyun »

Spang wrote:Vegans don't need supplements.
Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Why are you taking a multivitamin?
In case I'm not getting the necessary vitamins and minerals from the foods I eat.
hahahahahahahahahaha
Spang wrote:
miir wrote:
Spang wrote:Further, this doctor and the author of this article disagrees with that doctor.
Dr Gina Shaw is a natural hygiene practitioner and Dr. Vivian V. Vetrano is a chiropractor :lol:

Not the type of doctors I would go to for nutritional advice.
Dr. Stephen Byrnes, the gentleman who wrote the article Aslanna posted, died of a stroke. Also, he was a member of this organization.
An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a negative characteristic or belief of the person advocating it.

Why does it matter how he died or what organization he belonged to? Does the fact that you're (supposedly) a vegan negate the arguments you make in support of veganism? I guess you've developed such hysteria and fanaticism, akin to religious fundamentalists, that you can't even see the logical fallacies you are bombarding this thread with. Your obvious willingness to only employ logical reasoning when it suits your argument, and completely disregard it when it doesn't, is evidence enough that you've lost your fucking marbles. But let's get something straight:

You're not wrong because you're a vegan, you're a vegan because you're wrong.
I tell it like a true mackadelic.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Xyun wrote:Why does it matter how he died or what organization he belonged to?
If you did any research on the Weston A. Price Foundation, you would understand why it matters. For example:
I regret to say that those running the Weston A. Price Foundation today seem to have their own agenda. They are proponents of the philosophy that in order to be healthy, people must eat large amounts of saturated fat from animal products. They insist that only with the regular consumption of lard, butter and other full-fat dairy products, and beef, can people derive the nutrients they need to be healthy.

Toward that end, the Foundation has widely publicized an article written by a former member of the Foundation’s Board of Directors, Stephen Byrnes, titled The Myths of Vegetarianism.

The article is harshly critical of vegetarian diets, and concludes with an “About the Author” section which states: “Stephen Byrnes… enjoys robust health on a diet that includes butter, cream, eggs, meat, whole milk, dairy products and offal.” In fact, Stephen Byrnes suffered a fatal stroke in June, 2004. According to reports of his death, he had yet to reach his 40th birthday.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Canelek »

More faith-based dieting prs!

This is almost a page-theme. Xyun has summarized and wrapped this page. Next page!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

Take a look at Stephen Byrnes' credentials.
He was a RNCP (Registered Nutritional Consulting Practitioner) and a ND (Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine) which makes him a fuck of a lot more credible than the chiropractor and hygienist you referenced.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Chidoro »

Spang, you argue your retarded point of view regarding everyone else's nutritional decisions like Nick would argue his retarded point of view regarding everyone else's recognition of reality in the political landscape. You think by reading one radical's point of view, you're getting a clear picture about 'the way it is MAAANNNN'. Just omitting reality points left and right

I hope you someday look back at this thread and get massive amounts of douche chills from the utter nonsense you have posted throughout
Last edited by Chidoro on August 19, 2011, 3:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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miir
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

Spang wrote:Dr. Stephen Byrnes, the gentleman who wrote the article Aslanna posted, died of a stroke. Also, he was a member of this organization.
The stroke was a direct result of his HIV, not his diet.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

So he definitely was eating someone's meat....
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:So he definitely was eating someone's meat....
:D

Thought Miir said RCMP at first. Was thinking "might be better than a hygienist anyway :)
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Tyek »

So I am supposed to read and believe articles by Dr's with agendas you believe, but have no credentials and in one case have such weighty research as reading WebMD over a bowl of dry granola? At the same time I should ignore an article by a Dr. with an agenda, serious credentials in the subject and significant research because you and your friends are role playing cow rapes? Once again you are right, you are producing unrefutable debates.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Tyek wrote:So I am supposed to read and believe articles by Dr's with agendas you believe, but have no credentials and in one case have such weighty research as reading WebMD over a bowl of dry granola?
No, you should do your own research, get opinions from all sides, and then form your own.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Canelek »

Which is quite amusing since you are generally referencing other people's opinions...


But anyway, lol cowrapefantasies...
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Canelek wrote:Which is quite amusing since you are generally referencing other people's opinions...
Well, yeah, that's how a debate works.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

This is not a debate... it's just baiting and trolling fun.


I don't for one second believe that you are actually that stupid.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

miir wrote:This is not a debate... it's just baiting and trolling fun.


I don't for one second believe that you are actually that stupid.
I do.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Canelek »

I'd categorize it as willful ignorance.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

miir wrote:This is not a debate... it's just baiting and trolling fun.


I don't for one second believe that you are actually that stupid.
Never underestimate the level of stupid that can be achieved by pure willpower.
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