I've been a vegetarian for two days.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

oh and

[masteen]

Dad turned 70 last night. We went out and ate lobster and veal. The lobster was alive when it hit the boiling, frothy water. The baby cow was ground up and stuffed inside a shell of equally pulverized wheat babies, all smothered in tomato and garlic babies, which in turn was covered in congealed baby cow food.

It was delicious.

[Spang]

Do you actually believe this shit?
I hope not because I was starting to think you were a decent guy with reasonable opinions.

I don't see the idea that animals shouldn't be slaughtered for human consumption to be all that unreasonable.

[Winnow]

If Spang isn't trolling, he's clueless. The only thing worth eating for him is his own vomit. Chow down.

*shrug* hell, I went through an idealism phase when I was in my early 20s. Many of us did. All part of th process. It is amusing, at least.

So did I. My understanding is that Spang is 30. Even with 30 being the new 20, you've got to stop the stupid at some point!

At least find a less generic cause to pimp.

[miir]

I don't see the idea that animals shouldn't be slaughtered for human consumption to be all that unreasonable.

There's nothing wrong with having that opinion but when you start comparing it to slavery and gender inequality (which are social behaviours) you come off sounding like a loony.

Human vegetarianism is a social behaviour.

Humans are genetically predisposed to eating both meat and vegetables.
Human omnivorism is not a social behaviour.

[Keverian FireCry]

It's buying local, sustainably farmed products that makes the biggest difference. Not whether it's an animal or plant.

If I eat meat from a local producer that raises it's animals using sustainable practices, I'm likely doing a lot less damage to land and to animals than if I'm buying products made from soy shipped from a giant farm in Brazil that used to be part of the Amazon rainforest. Factor in the fossil-fuel consumption to get the product your table, mistreatment of workers around the world, gene-modification/seed patenting by companies like Monsanto, etc. then you start realizing how bad vegan/vegetarian products can be themselves.

However if you're a vegetarian and are as zealous about where you're food comes from as you are about the fact that you're not killing cute fuzzy animals, then you're on the right path. Most vegetarians I know don't care about where it comes from, because they already feel good enough about themselves now that they've made the tremendous sacrifice of replacing their morning bacon with a soy-based product (grown in Argentina, processed in China, and packaged in Zanzibar).

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

It's buying local, sustainably farmed products that makes the biggest difference. Not whether it's an animal or plant.

If I eat meat from a local producer that raises it's animals using sustainable practices, I'm likely doing a lot less damage to land and to animals than if I'm buying products made from soy shipped from a giant farm in Brazil that used to be part of the Amazon rainforest. Factor in the fossil-fuel consumption to get the product your table, mistreatment of workers around the world, gene-modification/seed patenting by companies like Monsanto, etc. then you start realizing how bad vegan/vegetarian products can be themselves.

However if you're a vegetarian and are as zealous about where you're food comes from as you are about the fact that you're not killing cute fuzzy animals, then you're on the right path. Most vegetarians I know don't care about where it comes from, because they already feel good enough about themselves now that they've made the tremendous sacrifice of replacing their morning bacon with a soy-based product (grown in Argentina, processed in China, and packaged in Zanzibar).

My GIRLFRIEND and I try and buy organic most of the time, particularly from small producers, but when I see some of the Vegetable Box schemes I have to laugh. Yeah, their produce is organic, but it was shipped from Argentina, China and Colombia to Denmark. Ridiculous.

[masteen]

My GIRLFRIEND and I...

Something you want to get off your chest about your GIRLFRIEND?

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

My GIRLFRIEND and I...

Something you want to get off your chest about your GIRLFRIEND?

Sorry, kneejerk reaction from another forum.

[Xyun]

[Spang]

Meet Your Meat

[Xyun]

I don't make friends with my food, you can be friends with my food though, I don't mind.

[Spang]

The Website

[Chidoro]

What are you even trying to accomplish at this point Spang?

an aside, was at a bbq this past weekend with some neighborhood locals who opened their pool. They had some hoisin based steak on the stick that my daughter enjoyed a lot. One of our neighbors was surprised that my daughter took to the steak over hotdogs and some other kid associated food. We told her that she loves meat on a stick or especially on the bone; chicken legs, ribs, even tries to eat pork chops off the bone. The neighbor thought that my daughter would have a problem if she knew where it came from, but she doesn't and never did. She tells our lobsters "bye bye lobster" before I boil them up, she's seen me cleave whole chickens, chop off fish heads, the whole ball of wax and has no problem with it. She knows what tastes good and kids in general can handle it if you cook with them. Wife and I found it funny that our neighbor was so "shocked" that she knows

[Aslanna]

Mmm pie.

But why is dairy like a glass.. wtf kind of chart is that where some of the data is separate! Honestly they could have shown the same thing with the existing pyramid by just revising what was there. This is just dumb.

[Aabidano]

I don't make friends with my food, you can be friends with my food though, I don't mind.

Today's pet being tomorrow's dinner used to be a fact of life, still is in many countries. Lots of areas in this country for that matter.

My kids saw their dinner "on the hoof" and being disassembled more than a few times. Yes that deer is pretty, makes a fine steak too.

[Spang]

What are you even trying to accomplish at this point Spang?

By posting an image of the new food plate and linking to the website?

Provide a follow-up to an article Aabidano linked to earlier in the thread.

[Chidoro]

What are you even trying to accomplish at this point Spang?

By posting an image of the new food plate and linking to the website?

Provide a follow-up to an article Aabidano linked to earlier in the thread.

In general, not the stupid plate post, your point in general, to convert everyone, to prove you're right, what the hell is it at this point?

Today's pet being tomorrow's dinner used to be a fact of life, still is in many countries. Lots of areas in this country for that matter.

Yep yep. My mother-in-law used to do this with rabbits when she was growing up.

[Spang]

In general, not the stupid plate post, your point in general, to convert everyone, to prove you're right, what the hell is it at this point?

At this point, my point is to participate in the discussion like everyone else.

[Boogahz]

I don't make friends with my food, you can be friends with my food though, I don't mind.

Today's pet being tomorrow's dinner used to be a fact of life, still is in many countries. Lots of areas in this country for that matter.

My kids saw their dinner "on the hoof" and being disassembled more than a few times. Yes that deer is pretty, makes a fine steak too.

This is why my mom's cattle have been named things like "Lunch" and "Dinner." She made sure that the kids also knew what they were being raised for too. They weren't going to name them at all, but we figured that it couldn't hurt to get them to associate them in that manner early on. These were raised on my mom's land, and not in a feedlot. BIG differences. I grew up literally surrounded by cattle in feedlots and packing plants. I helped my dad with repairs inside two packing plants, and there was no way I would have actually worked there. Kills, generally, went very quickly, but there were times... I am still a bit picky when it comes to beef in general.

It has basically been the same with the chickens, but they're mainly used for (unfertilized) eggs. I think there is usually one rooster per five hens in the coop at any one time. There are still MANY unfertilized eggs produced. Speaking of the eggs, it will really depend on where you are, but we've had to leave fake eggs/golf balls in the coop to drive off snakes. I prefer that method to my mom killing snakes in one of the hen's boxes with a shotgun...because I end up getting to clean the mess. Keeping chickens is also an excellent way to dispose of a lot of food that would otherwise go directly to the compost pile, which can cut down on feed costs too!

The lawnmowers, donkeys, are the one set of animals I haven't figured out the use for out on her land. They were up to 6, but her catahoula killed a baby when it ran at one of the kids last year. When we aren't going through a drought from hell, they do a really good job clearing a patch of land offset from the house. Now they just go through money in the shape of bales of hay.

[Canelek]

That is a pretty ridiculous plate-graph. Then again, when there is no data, one can just draw shit out as they see fit.

[Aabidano]

The lawnmowers, donkeys, are the one set of animals I haven't figured out the use for out on her land.

Lot of folks keep them as they'll kill or run off coyotes & snakes whenever they get the chance.

[Winnow]

One of the homes in Germany that I resided in has a cow field right off the backyard. This was a old school cow field where a smelly old man or woman would walk the cows up the road to the field in the morning and take them back somewhere at night. The fence was no more than maybe a strand or two of barbed wire, easy to get through for a kid.

I tried befriending a few cows. I'd go in the field, say hello, and they'd stare back at me as they munched on grass but never did much else. I ended up stepping in a cow patty in my slippers. I haven't liked cows much since.

[Aslanna]

How many days has it been so far!

[Canelek]

The next "evolutionary" step is the following... Portland is silly with them!

I present to you, cyclist douchebag!

[miir]

Bike couriers fucking stink.
I have when one gets on an elevator.

[Spang]

How many days has it been so far!

133.

[Aslanna]

Alright. We need more frequent updates!

[Chidoro]

How many days has it been so far!

it's a lifestyle, you can't put a number on it, maaannn

133.

oh

[Aabidano]

It is maddox so...:
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.c ... speciesism

Hate fixie riding douchebags. Every one of them that's riding what once was valuable\collectible bike & now basically a piece of crap with green tires needs kicked square in the crotch.

*Edited for gender equality

[Spang]

Animals aren't people, but they are sentient creatures. However, based on Mr. Maddox' logic, it should be acceptable to eat babies, children, women and retards.

[laneela]

Animals aren't people, but they are sentient creatures. However, based on Mr. Maddox' logic, it should be acceptable to eat babies, children, women and retards.

Why is it that you believe that women aren't as intelligent or capable as men are? When did "retards" lose their motor skills? Do women and children no longer grow up to be adults? I personally find your sexism and discrimination against the handicap way more disconcerting than my desire to eat tasty hamburgers.

[Boogahz]

If cows didn't want to be eaten, they would run away

[Aslanna]

Why is it that you believe that women aren't as intelligent or capable as men are? When did "retards" lose their motor skills? Do women and children no longer grow up to be adults? I personally find your sexism and discrimination against the handicap way more disconcerting than my desire to eat tasty hamburgers.

Obviously he has the moral high ground over babies, children, women and retards... He's vegetarian!

I don't know about you but he has me convinced to go all in.. Veganism here I come!

[Winnow]

I want to know if it's ok for vegans to eat the human shit burgers that were previuosly mentioned. How would you know what the shitter ate? Would vegans demand special shit burgers that were produced from the shit of non meat eating humans? I'm thinking this might be an excellent way for vegans to supplement their flawed diet.

[Leonaerd]

Spang, what about spirulina and chlorella, which are nutritional powerhouses and yet have meat characteristics?

I take a tablespoon of spirulina in my tomato juice every day and definitely feel healthier as a result...

[Spang]

Why is it that you believe that women aren't as intelligent or capable as men are?

Women are just as smart and capable as men. Unfortunately, women don't run the planet, men do. Specifically, wealthy men. Wealthy men who don't give a shit about the planet. It'll be quite difficult for anyone to save the planet while those fuckers are allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

When did "retards" lose their motor skills?

A lack of motor skills wasn't the only reason Mr. Maddox gave for slaughtering animals for human gluttony.

Do women and children no longer grow up to be adults?

Children do if you let them. Women are already grown up, that's why they're referred to as women and not girls; and certainly not ladies, bitches or hos because that's sexist. Animals can grow up and do great things too, if we let them. I mean, they're probably never going to save the planet, but neither are dolphins, penguins or pandas. There's a lot of humans who aren't going to save the planet, either. According to Mr. Maddox, we should be eating them.

I personally find your sexism and discrimination against the handicap way more disconcerting than my desire to eat tasty hamburgers.

I apologize for the sexism and discrimination toward the handicapped, but I wasn't referring to the handicapped with the word retard. Sarah Palin, for example, is a retard. Her son Trig, not a retard.

[Spang]

Spang, what about spirulina and chlorella, which are nutritional powerhouses and yet have meat characteristics?

Both should be vegan- and vegetarian-friendly.

[Leonaerd]

Yet, algae is neither vege or vega. Sounds like vegan values crumble under the microscope.

All that matters is health. Taking away all meat is unnecessary and loud.

[Spang]

Yet, algae is neither vege or vega. Sounds like vegan values crumble under the microscope.

Sentience is typically the deciding factor.

[Leonaerd]

Sentience is to veganism as rationality is to catholicism.

[laneela]

Why is it that you believe that women aren't as intelligent or capable as men are?

Women are just as smart and capable as men. Unfortunately, women don't run the planet, men do. Specifically, wealthy men. Wealthy men who don't give a shit about the planet. It'll be quite difficult for anyone to save the planet while those fuckers are allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

When did "retards" lose their motor skills?

A lack of motor skills wasn't the only reason Mr. Maddox gave for slaughtering animals for human gluttony.

Do women and children no longer grow up to be adults?

Children do if you let them. Women are already grown up, that's why they're referred to as women and not girls; and certainly not ladies, bitches or hos because that's sexist. Animals can grow up and do great things too, if we let them. I mean, they're probably never going to save the planet, but neither are dolphins, penguins or pandas. There's a lot of humans who aren't going to save the planet, either. According to Mr. Maddox, we should be eating them.

I personally find your sexism and discrimination against the handicap way more disconcerting than my desire to eat tasty hamburgers.

I apologize for the sexism and discrimination toward the handicapped, but I wasn't referring to the handicapped with the word retard. Sarah Palin, for example, is a retard. Her son Trig, not a retard.

I watched the video. Maddox was talking about the difference between humans and animals and why your logic that animals are sentient and therefore comparable to humans is faulty. His theory is that "people" are the only ones capable of stopping an asteroid from impacting the earth. He goes on to imply that what is required to help save the world is a "brain that can do math and handle basic motor skills". You are the one that inferred that women, children, babies and retards do not meet the requirements. And I did misspeak when I said "Do women and children no longer grow up to be adults?" I meant to say "babies and children". All I'm saying is that you can't possibly be on a moral high ground when you think so poorly of women, children and the handicapped.


edit: And for the record, I would never eat a penguin. They are just sooooo cute.

[Spang]

Maddox was talking about the difference between humans and animals and why your logic that animals are sentient and therefore comparable to humans is faulty.

I never made that comparison. In fact, I said that animals are not people. However, just because humans can do so much more than other animals doesn't mean we should be slaughtering them for our gluttony.

All I'm saying is that you can't possibly be on a moral high ground when you think so poorly of women, children and the handicapped.

I never claimed to be on a moral high ground.

edit: And for the record, I would never eat a penguin. They are just sooooo cute.

Cuteness is where you draw the line, sentience is where I draw the line.

[Aslanna]

However, just because humans can do so much more than other animals doesn't mean we should be slaughtering them for our gluttony.

Gluttony? Really? I mean I know you seem to like that word because it makes you seem superior and all but speak for yourself.

Oh and while you're at it learn the definition of gluttony. I'm feeling nice so I'll save you some time:

Definition of GLUTTONY
1
: excess in eating or drinking
2
: greedy or excessive indulgence

Happy to help!

[Spang]

Gluttony? Really? I mean I know you seem to like that word because seems it makes you seem superior and all but speak for yourself.

I use that word because it's accurate.

[Aslanna]

It plainly is not accurate. I guess you haven't finished your English classes yet. We'll wait.

[Spang]

It plainly is not accurate. I guess you haven't finished your English classes yet. We'll wait.

My English requirement was fulfilled two semesters ago. The first English class, which I took in 2007 at a community college, transferred.

[laneela]

I never claimed to be on a moral high ground.

Not in as many words, no. But let us not fuck around and pretend that this whole thread hasn't been about you trying to make yourself out to be. You have your personal reasons for not eating meat and that's phenomenal. I can give you a ton of delicious vegetarian and vegan recipes (I say they're delicious because of hearsay, I wouldn't touch that shit if they paid me to.) I'm sure every single person on this board is personally familiar with at least a handful of vegetarians and vegans. One of my best friends is a raw vegan, which I find bizarre but I don't believe it's my position to tell him what he can/cannot or should/shouldn't eat. Just stop preaching. It's totally unattractive and comes out really douchy. I bet if you dropped the holier-than-thou act, you'd find a lot of people a lot more receptive to what you're dishing out (I'd suggest wrapping it in bacon too for maximum efficiency)

[Winnow]

Spang, you're good at replying with one liners because you have very little to add beyond that. You also have a habit of having jack shit to say and post a link to something because you can't contribute much personal thought on matters. If, for some reason, you enjoy knowingly presenting yourself as an asshole, you should probably do a little more than throw back one liners. It doesn't help your cause. So far on your threads, the only thing I find amusing is your attempts to provide the shortest meaningless response possible, avoiding the tidal wave of facts or actual deeper opinions thrown back in your face.

I no longer think you're trolling. I'm convinced you're clueless.

[Spang]

I'm convinced you're clueless.

I'm convinced that no amount of words will change your opinion of animals. Look, another one-liner.