I've been a vegetarian for two days.

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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

yeah, we have a good one here that will provide any cuts you want. You can choose how much of the animal you want, provide your own, go in as a group and get your own cuts, or whatever else you want to get done. You can even set it up to have something like half a cow prepared the way you want at a set schedule.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by masteen »

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:
masteen wrote:
pyrella wrote:I'm curious how much meat was consumed over this weekend due to this thread. Not even trying to be snide or facetious - all day long on Friday after reading this I had a hankering for meat.

Went to the butcher and got 4lbs of rib eye, 2lb of armenian seasoned kebab, pork shoulder, a few pounds of various sausage and then went and got a steak burrito next door with no beans or rice.


Man it was a delicious weekend, and left overs that will be amazing!
I know this is old, but I missed it. Your butcher makes seasoned kebab? Fuck me, I wish the assholes passing for butchers down here could cut a t-bone properly. I'd feed like 2 dozen tourists to the shark god for some decent kebab.
That sucks. Good butchers are a godsend. My mom and I are buying a cow from my grandparents and splitting it soon. Going to pack a freezer with all sorts of beef.
Doesn't beef need to be aged BEFORE it gets frozen? And yeah, there used to be a great butcher other side of Gandy Bridge in Tampa, also had a small sandwich-shop business (best burgers, ANYWHERE, EVER), but they retired while I was still there, thus removing one of the few aspects of that city I actually liked.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

masteen wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:
masteen wrote:
pyrella wrote:I'm curious how much meat was consumed over this weekend due to this thread. Not even trying to be snide or facetious - all day long on Friday after reading this I had a hankering for meat.

Went to the butcher and got 4lbs of rib eye, 2lb of armenian seasoned kebab, pork shoulder, a few pounds of various sausage and then went and got a steak burrito next door with no beans or rice.


Man it was a delicious weekend, and left overs that will be amazing!
I know this is old, but I missed it. Your butcher makes seasoned kebab? Fuck me, I wish the assholes passing for butchers down here could cut a t-bone properly. I'd feed like 2 dozen tourists to the shark god for some decent kebab.
That sucks. Good butchers are a godsend. My mom and I are buying a cow from my grandparents and splitting it soon. Going to pack a freezer with all sorts of beef.
Doesn't beef need to be aged BEFORE it gets frozen? And yeah, there used to be a great butcher other side of Gandy Bridge in Tampa, also had a small sandwich-shop business (best burgers, ANYWHERE, EVER), but they retired while I was still there, thus removing one of the few aspects of that city I actually liked.
Not really sure. Will be my first time buying a cow like this. I guess I will do whatever I am told needs to be done. I just want a every possible cut of steak in a freezer.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Cows are people too!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

Aslanna wrote:Cows are people too!
And darned tasty.
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Post by Canelek »

I am pleased that the tri tip cut of beef has been becoming more popular here in the Northwest. Made some tasty tri tip sandwiches with homemade habanero BBQ sauce the other day. Also, my new place is like 3 miles from the best butcher in town. Yay!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:WTF? Do you even know what the word "predator" means? You may think humans are not...and I guarantee if you were in a situation where you had to choose between yourself starving, or killing an animal and frying its ass over a fire, you would kill the animal and go on living. You know what that makes you? A predator! You are just in denial and guilt-ridden at the moment.
This is how a real predator eats its food:

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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

That's because they don't know how to make grills and knives. They'd use them if they had the technology!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Yeah, people cook food because it is an effective way to kill bacteria, viruses, etc and increases the amount of nutrition absorbed from it. Not because our ancestors could not \ did not eat any raw meat...they just found a better way to do it. That is our biggest pro, and what makes us the greatest predator in the world. We have the ability to use and change the world around us to make things easier for ourselves, or give ourselves the greatest advantage. We are not limited by anything in our world. If we want to eat another animal, there really is nothing to stop us other than economic\legal boundaries or other people at this point.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:Yeah, people cook food because it is an effective way to kill bacteria, viruses, etc and increases the amount of nutrition absorbed from it.
Carnivorous predators, like the ones pictured above, are anatomically and biologically designed to eat meat, and therefore don't need to do any of that Mickey Mouse cook-it-before-you-eat-it bullshit.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:Carnivorous predators, like the ones pictured above, are anatomically and biologically designed to eat meat, and therefore don't need to do any of that Mickey Mouse cook-it-before-you-eat-it bullshit.
Yep. Still clueless!

Preaching vegetarianism (or the opposite) is a lot like getting in a debate about religion. You're not going to change the other persons mind so why bother. If you find moral issues with it that's great but the other side doesn't want you pushing your agenda on them and it just makes you look like a preachy douche bag.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

So those stupid sea creatures that decided to walk on land were going about it all wrong?

Vegetarians are worse than religious people. You're in college and are still spewing out this crap? Is it some sort of religious college that doesn't teach evolution and adaptation?

Stick to missionary doggy style. Why bother with anything else? It gets the job done. That's all the other animals do after all.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Aslanna wrote:Preaching vegetarianism (or the opposite) is a lot like getting in a debate about religion. You're not going to change the other persons mind so why bother. If you find moral issues with it that's great but the other side doesn't want you pushing your agenda on them and it just makes you look like a preachy douche bag.
No one is forcing you assholes to click on this thread and read it. I'm not injecting vegetarianism into every thread, just this one--the one entitled I've been a vegetarian for two days.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Leonaerd »

This thread has gotten hilariously out of hand. Food for thought: Spang is pretty much correct despite accusations from some surprising directions, Asheran is tripping face right now, and doggy style is great after some raw sushi.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Spang wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:Yeah, people cook food because it is an effective way to kill bacteria, viruses, etc and increases the amount of nutrition absorbed from it.
Carnivorous predators, like the ones pictured above, are anatomically and biologically designed to eat meat, and therefore don't need to do any of that Mickey Mouse cook-it-before-you-eat-it bullshit.

We actually don't HAVE to cook our food either, and some people don't (ew). It is just safer and more efficient. Cooked food is probably better for a lot of other animals as well.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:No one is forcing you assholes to click on this thread and read it. I'm not injecting vegetarianism into every thread, just this one--the one entitled I've been a vegetarian for two days.
Well you did post this on the public internets so you're obviously inviting comment. And while your first post was entitiled I've been a vegetarian for two days the ones following it were a different matter.

Good day, sir!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Xyun »

I can quash your ignorant vegetarian argument with one picture:


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Vegetarians denying evolution are no different than religious wackjobs denying evolution. Next thing you know Spang is going to be arguing that we should teach creationism in our schools. It's ironic. Evolution is the very reason you are able to deny evolution.
The food chain was invented by humans to justify exploitation of animals.
Wow. just wow.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Our teeth are very similar to the teeth of these giant vegetarians:

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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

On the question of whether our nearest ape relatives are herbivores, check out Craig Stanford’s 1999 article The Predatory Behavior and Ecology of Wild Chimpanzees, which summaries the evidence that common chimpanzees regularly hunt, that meat eating is a substantial proportion of their diet, and argues that early humans likely had similar hunting and eating behavior. He also cites evidence that pregnant chimps with plentiful access to meat are more likely to have a live birth.

On the question of teeth, chimpanzees have formidable strength and the ability to improvise weapons. They don’t need claws and fangs to hunt.
dumbass chimps, shouldn't be eating that meat! What the hell is wrong with them?
Our closest animal relatives, the apes, will — according to a Discovery channel show I just watched — eat meat “whenever they get the chance.” You should have seen these “cute and loveable” chimps ripping apart a little monkey with their bare hands. They sucked on the bloody bones for hours. Apes, like humans, are omnivorous. That adaptability is what has made human beings the dominant species on the planet. We can live (almost) anywhere and eat (almost) anything. Neolithic humans, who lived far more in tune with nature than we do, were hunters AND gatherers.

If our species is evolving toward strict vegetarianism, it is a social evolution, not a biological one.
Vitamin B-12 can *only* be obtained from animal sources, and it is required in our diets. That being the case, it seems unlikely they human beings evolved as herbivores. In fact, it’s impossible.
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Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimize potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications.
Most vegans run around eating dog shit and whatever else they can scrounge up for B-12...hmmm, I wonder why....maybe it's because meat has always been a part of our diet.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Vitamin B-12 can *only* be obtained from animal sources...
That's just not true.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Spang wrote:
Vitamin B-12 can *only* be obtained from animal sources...
That's just not true.
Not too many "natural" options available:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Pl ... 23w418.pdf
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Boogahz wrote:Not too many "natural" options available:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Pl ... 23w418.pdf
Nature is precisely where B12 comes from.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

So we're going to ignore the chimps?

An no, there's not a lot of B-12 alternatives...you'd die if you tried to be a veggie in "nature". No handy yeast mixtures or pills to pop.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Not too many "natural" options available:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Pl ... 23w418.pdf
Nature is precisely where B12 comes from.
Yeah, from the same animals you don't want to eat. Would things like fish oil supplements also be okay, since you didn't have to kill the fish yourself?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Boogahz wrote:Yeah, from the same animals you don't want to eat.
Animals don't produce B12.
Boogahz wrote:Would things like fish oil supplements also be okay, since you didn't have to kill the fish yourself?
Flaxeed oil is a vegetarian alternative to fish oil.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

Still no response about the chimps. Not surprising.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Yeah, from the same animals you don't want to eat.
Animals don't produce B12.
Oh really? I guess the easter bunny leaves it behind?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Boogahz wrote:Oh really? I guess the easter bunny leaves it behind?
Not unless the Easter Bunny is bacteria.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

Something new every day:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=107

Makes we want to fry up some liver too, hadn't had any in a while. Yuuummmm, liiiiver.

*Edit - thought the flaxseed oil tasted\smelled familiar, it's linseed oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaxseed_oil
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Boogahz »

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Oh really? I guess the easter bunny leaves it behind?
Not unless the Easter Bunny is bacteria.
Actually, that would be bacteria in the Easter Bunny's gut which produces B12.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Spang wrote:Flaxeed oil is a vegetarian alternative to fish oil.
If by alternative you mean inferior alternative.. Sure!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

Boogahz wrote:...Easter Bunny...
Can be tasty too, chocolate or otherwise.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Aabidano wrote:Something new every day:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=107

Makes we want to fry up some liver too, hadn't had any in a while. Yuuummmm, liiiiver.

*Edit - thought the flaxseed oil tasted\smelled familiar, it's linseed oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaxseed_oil
I really want to see Spang's counter for this one.

Oh yeah, I just got home from taking my fiancee out for mother's day. I had some really awesome veal. Honestly, that is probably one meat that I actually have a problem with myself...but it is just so good.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

So it's been shown that chimps will eat meat any chance they get and that it improves their birth rate when they do get meat.

(that crushes the non meat eating theory and the teeth issues)

Humans need b12 and there's no chance in hell you'd get it being a vegetarian in the wild which completely crushes the theory that humans are natural herbivores. We are omnivores yo!




Case closed. Spang is best left thinking there's something to this vegan thing. Would you rather have him harmlessly slowly kill himself sucking on yeast paste or something else, or, considering he seems to like to jump onto causes without researching them, risk him being suckered into some cult that could cause harm to others?

The answer is clear. Spang...goooo vegans! Yeah! Vegans rock! Keep up the good fight! Down with the meats!
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Winnow wrote:Spang is best left thinking there's something to this vegan thing.
I'm not a vegan.
Winnow wrote:...considering he seems to like to jump onto causes without researching them...
That's just not true.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Sueven »

Despite not being a vegetarian I feel like responding to Winnow.

1. Chimps. Yes, chimps eat meat. Yes, ancestral humans certainly consumed meat and animal products. So what? I don't think that whether humans are 'naturally' vegan or vegetarian is a serious part of the argument for veganism. I know that Spang was talking about it, but it just doesn't seem important to me.

2. B12. B12 deficiency is a potential risk among vegans. Most vegans have no problem with it at all. Taking vitamins solves the problem for most anyone who has an issue with it. For some, vitamins don't work and you may have to eat some animal products to get enough B12. So, basically, a vegan diet has a measurable, although unlikely, potential health outcome.

But it seems to me that the risk of B12 deficiency has to be looked at within the context of the health consequences of the diet as a whole. A standard meat-heavy diet increases all sorts of health risks that a vegan diet minimizes, from cardiovascular issues to obesity. I understand that some animal products are very healthy, but a vegan diet is likely more healthy than a standard sort of meat-based diet.

3. Generally. I think the chimps thing is irrelevant, because I don't think an argument that primitive humans were vegan is a relevant part of any argument for veganism. I think the B12 thing is a forest-for-the-trees kind of point. Veganism seems like a totally defensible choice to me, better than most.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Canelek »

Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:Spang is best left thinking there's something to this vegan thing.
I'm not a vegan.

You are certainly acting like a fucking vegan. I see entitled asshats like you every day, and not just at Trader Joe's or Whole Foods.

Here's the cliff's notes:

Vegetarian: Does not eat meat, and generally does not make a fucking scene about diet...
Vegan: Self-righteous beatniks who get up in arms when a restaurant doesn't have a "special menu" just for them.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Winnow »

Sueven wrote:Despite not being a vegetarian I feel like responding to Winnow.

1. Chimps. Yes, chimps eat meat. Yes, ancestral humans certainly consumed meat and animal products. So what? I don't think that whether humans are 'naturally' vegan or vegetarian is a serious part of the argument for veganism.

2. B12. B12 deficiency is a potential risk among vegans. Most vegans have no problem with it at all. Taking vitamins solves the problem for most anyone who has an issue with it. For some, vitamins don't work and you may have to eat some animal products to get enough B12. So, basically, a vegan diet has a measurable, although unlikely, potential health outcome.

But it seems to me that the risk of B12 deficiency has to be looked at within the context of the health consequences of the diet as a whole. A standard meat-heavy diet increases all sorts of health risks that a vegan diet minimizes, from cardiovascular issues to obesity. I understand that some animal products are very healthy, but a vegan diet is likely more healthy than a standard sort of meat-based diet.

3. Generally. I think the chimps thing is irrelevant, because I don't think an argument that primitive humans were vegan is a relevant part of any argument for veganism. I think the B12 thing is a forest-for-the-trees kind of point. Veganism seems pretty reasonable to me; I get why people do it even if I don't. I'm not sure that you're scoring many points against it here.

I'm not against having a reasonable diet that is primarily made up of plants. Full blown vegans that cop attitudes bother me though.

If Spang isn't a full blown vegan then I'm not sure what he's arguing about. That's being hypocritical.

The Chimp thing is in response to the teeth argument. The point is that chimps eat meat, or need meat, even if they don't have typical carnivore claws or teeth. You don't get to pick and choose what other animals do. The fact is that the closest thing in nature to humans, eats meat.

As a human, you have the choice to be a vegan if you wish, due to the ability to have B12 supplemented in your diet that you would not be able to get so easily in the wild without eating meat, especially if you go back 100 years and lose the knowledge altogether about vitamins, lacking the understanding that you need to go find some yeast to eat. The distinction of choice to be a vegan must be separated from the argument that humans are natural herbivores.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Spang »

Canelek wrote:You are certainly acting like a fucking vegan. I see entitled asshats like you every day...
Having a discussion on this stuff in just one goddamn thread--a thread about vegetarianism--makes me an "entitled asshat"?

Were you motherfuckers molested by vegans as kids or something?
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aslanna »

Sueven wrote:But it seems to me that the risk of B12 deficiency has to be looked at within the context of the health consequences of the diet as a whole. A standard meat-heavy diet increases all sorts of health risks that a vegan diet minimizes, from cardiovascular issues to obesity. I understand that some animal products are very healthy, but a vegan diet is likely more healthy than a standard sort of meat-based diet.
That's not a good choice if your 'standard meat-based diet' is 'meat-heavy'. That's basically two extremes when you can meet fine in the middle. And it also matters what sort of meat you're consuming since we all know red meat is evil. Most of my meals I make for myself would be considered vegetarian. Sometimes I'll make chicken stir fry or something and have chicken in my salad at work but other than that it's been all fruits and vegetables for me the past 3-4 weeks.

Basically I disagree that a pure vegan diet would be better than a diet which was a contained a moderate amount of meats such as fish and seafood. I'm mainly thinking Mediterranean area as that region is one of the healthiest and they certainly aren't all vegetarians. Here's the pyramid! Any pyramid that includes wine is alright with me.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Canelek »

Spang wrote:
Canelek wrote:You are certainly acting like a fucking vegan. I see entitled asshats like you every day...
Having a discussion on this stuff in just one goddamn thread--a thread about vegetarianism--makes me an "entitled asshat"?

Were you motherfuckers molested by vegans as kids or something?

You are pretty defensive, Sputnik. And yes, I think you indeed fall under the "entitled asshat" bucket. Given that your usual MO is 'subject' 'body: discuss', folks are not so inclined to pay you much heed at all. In reality, you are pretty much a lazy, lazy fake liberal. Do try harder if you wish to make a point someday.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Xyun »

Vegetarianism is a soap box for holier than thou people. They need to showcase how their affinity towards animals is somehow greater than yours. But in reality it is an insult to science, and to the human race. If survival was in question, this nonsense would never even enter the mind of the idiots who spout it.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by masteen »

Aslanna wrote:
Sueven wrote:But it seems to me that the risk of B12 deficiency has to be looked at within the context of the health consequences of the diet as a whole. A standard meat-heavy diet increases all sorts of health risks that a vegan diet minimizes, from cardiovascular issues to obesity. I understand that some animal products are very healthy, but a vegan diet is likely more healthy than a standard sort of meat-based diet.
That's not a good choice if your 'standard meat-based diet' is 'meat-heavy'. That's basically two extremes when you can meet fine in the middle. And it also matters what sort of meat you're consuming since we all know red meat is evil. Most of my meals I make for myself would be considered vegetarian. Sometimes I'll make chicken stir fry or something and have chicken in my salad at work but other than that it's been all fruits and vegetables for me the past 3-4 weeks.

Basically I disagree that a pure vegan diet would be better than a diet which was a contained a moderate amount of meats such as fish and seafood. I'm mainly thinking Mediterranean area as that region is one of the healthiest and they certainly aren't all vegetarians. Here's the pyramid! Any pyramid that includes wine is alright with me.
Yeah, obesity is much more positively correlated to the AMOUNT of food (of any kind) eaten, not the composition. And several recent studies have linked obesity much more positively with all the health risks than eating meat.

It's tough to isolate because fat people do tend to eat more meat products.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Sueven »

Aslanna: I agree with you. The "perfect diet," to the extent such a thing exists, is probably not a vegan diet. I don't think you can justify veganism on health grounds alone; you need ethical considerations as well. My point is that I think veganism is a reasonable choice, and, even if not perfect, probably better than the diets of most people.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Sueven wrote:Despite not being a vegetarian I feel like responding to Winnow.

1. Chimps. Yes, chimps eat meat. Yes, ancestral humans certainly consumed meat and animal products. So what? I don't think that whether humans are 'naturally' vegan or vegetarian is a serious part of the argument for veganism. I know that Spang was talking about it, but it just doesn't seem important to me.

2. B12. B12 deficiency is a potential risk among vegans. Most vegans have no problem with it at all. Taking vitamins solves the problem for most anyone who has an issue with it. For some, vitamins don't work and you may have to eat some animal products to get enough B12. So, basically, a vegan diet has a measurable, although unlikely, potential health outcome.

But it seems to me that the risk of B12 deficiency has to be looked at within the context of the health consequences of the diet as a whole. A standard meat-heavy diet increases all sorts of health risks that a vegan diet minimizes, from cardiovascular issues to obesity. I understand that some animal products are very healthy, but a vegan diet is likely more healthy than a standard sort of meat-based diet.

3. Generally. I think the chimps thing is irrelevant, because I don't think an argument that primitive humans were vegan is a relevant part of any argument for veganism. I think the B12 thing is a forest-for-the-trees kind of point. Veganism seems like a totally defensible choice to me, better than most.
I can understand that. If you don't like eating meat for whatever reason (just a dislike, or because you have a problem with how the animals are treated, or whatever) then that is fine. Spang came here, stated he was a vegetarian, and then started stating that it was not ok for people to kill animals for food and making crazy statements like "The food chain was invented by humans."

I don't care what you do or don't eat, but don't try to tell me that what I eat is wrong.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

When people tell me they’re vegan all I hear is ‘I’m an asshole, kick me in the face with shoes made of bacon
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Aabidano »

When people tell me they’re vegan all I hear is ‘I’m an asshole, kick me in the face with shoes made of bacon
That's awesome :)

My sister's vegan and my brother in law is vegetarian. Unlike most people of either stripe you can go months without ever hearing anything about it from them. Or most of the D&D playing coffee shop dwellers they hang out with for that matter, only a subset aren't meat eaters.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by miir »

Hehe yea, I don't understand why some people feel the need to tell everyone that they are vegan or vegetarian.
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Re: I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by Canelek »

Here in Portland, it is pretty common. I don't care what diet folks are on, or what they prefer. Hell, I can't eat most types of cheeses (which is awkward while wine tasting). Adding a political or social aspect to food preference is just asinine though. People get so lost in their own "cause" that they fail to see "OMG!THE BIG PICTURE!LOL!" and eventually end up spewing their vitriol over the thought of a perfectly grilled ribeye.

FUCK YOU YANKEEBLUEJEANS!
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