Sometimes the bull gets you!

[Xatrei]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/2 ... 85941.html

A YouTube video is at the bottom of the article. I just can't feel too sorry for the matador.

[Hesten]

Jesus, as barbaric as i think bullfighting is, and that i think it should be outlawed, noone should get hurt like that

[Winnow]

I have zero remorse for the matador. The bull never stands a fair chance making the whole spectacle of Bull Fights a sorry excuse for an "event" held by backward ass countries. If it was fair sport, they would have ended this "bullshit" long ago.

[Fairweather Pure]

In bullfighting and other sports, it's necessary for someone to either die or get seriously injured to remind everyone why they still watch it. If it was 100% safe, people would lose interest pretty quick IMO. That's gotta be the only thing keeping auto racing going!

As far as bullfighting is concerned, we put Michael Vick away for killing dogs in a similar fashion so I find the whole thing pretty ironic.

[Leonaerd]

he should gauge that

[Kluden]

Its just a cow...we eat them for food...why not tease them and shit first by stabbing at their neck muscles to lower their heads, then run red capes in front of their faces. Makes sense to me. In reality, I really don't give a shit. The world does far worse things to animals. And look, sometimes the animal wins! (but then got killed real quick according to the article).

Although, I will acknowledge that it does indeed take some modicum of skill to be a matador. The one shot kill they must perform at the end of the ceremony is a difficult thing.

[Boogahz]

As far as bullfighting is concerned, we put Michael Vick away for killing dogs in a similar fashion so I find the whole thing pretty ironic.

This wasn't in the US. This was in Spain. They have had bullfighting in multiple forms for centuries. No irony.

[Funkmasterr]

As far as bullfighting is concerned, we put Michael Vick away for killing dogs in a similar fashion so I find the whole thing pretty ironic.

This wasn't in the US. This was in Spain. They have had bullfighting in multiple forms for centuries. No irony.

People have been fighting dogs for a long, long fucking time too. Just pointing out that was no excuse for the dog fighting in most peoples opinion, no different here.

[Boogahz]

Two different countries. Two different sets of beliefs regarding what is "right." If he had been jailed in Spain, it would be different

[Winnow]

Although, I will acknowledge that it does indeed take some modicum of skill to be a matador. The one shot kill they must perform at the end of the ceremony is a difficult thing.

Are you serious? After the Bull has been stabbed and drugged nearly to death? Yeah, real hard to kill shot it at that point. Try it when the Bull is fresh.

I care very little about Bull Fights. I saw one in person in Barcelona back in the late 70's (when I was under 10 years old), front row. It neither harmed my psyche (as far as I know ) or helped me by seeing that bloody mess so young.

I can comment that I think makes a man look more like a pussy than brave warrior type. In the end, if the chicks dig it and the Matadors get laid, I guess it will continue.

[Kluden]

The strength and aim to properly execute the bull with a sword is not an easy task in one shot. That's all I'm saying. The point is to hit the bull's heart.

[Tegellan]

The strength and aim to properly execute the bull with a sword is not an easy task in one shot. That's all I'm saying. The point is to hit the bull's heart.

You don't hit it in the heart, the aim is to sever its spinal cord, killing it instantly if it is done right. It is very difficult and impossible to do until it is tired enough to lower its head so the spine is accessible. That being said, I think it is great the matador got what was coming to him, too bad it didn't kill him, I think its bloody barbaric.

[Zaelath]

Regardless, I LOL'd

[Bubba Grizz]

The strength and aim to properly execute the bull with a sword is not an easy task in one shot. That's all I'm saying. The point is to hit the bull's heart.

You don't hit it in the heart, the aim is to sever its spinal cord, killing it instantly if it is done right. It is very difficult and impossible to do until it is tired enough to lower its head so the spine is accessible. That being said, I think it is great the matador got what was coming to him, too bad it didn't kill him, I think its bloody barbaric.

I wonder how many bulls/cows they have to practice on first.

[Aabidano]

They start on Pekingese and work their way up.

[Noysyrump]

Bunch of PETA humpin hippy treehugger pussies around here...

"Oh noez, they fight bullz in spain, they're so barbaric!"

It's something that has been a part of thier culture for over 2000 years, it aint goin away.

However, just like the autoracing, people pay to see a crash.

[Xatrei]

So because something is accepted for a long period of time, we should never move beyond it? Institutionalized racism / sexism, slavery, women as property, honor killings, monarchy, feudalism, theocracy, institutionalized stupidity?

Lucky for us humans, progress generally happens whether the regressive knuckle-draggers like it or not. It just happens a little too slowly for some of our liking.

[Leonaerd]

Progress can be made on societal and political (evolutionary?) levels, but as a human with a limited perspective regarding the scope of humanity, it becomes difficult to judge whether this progress is truly positive; an issue of seeing the forest from the trees.



The modern man has many choices, all within tangible and frequently controllable confines ("Obama gets this lap dance here for free"). We face trends in human efforts made on the levels of society, politics, and as a consequence, evolution. I see current trends cause individuals to, over time, destroy the animal within. I could never call that progress.

I think of it this way... How many other species would be lazy-minded if they made the choice, or even had this unfortunate, crutch-like ability? A crutch, which helps you walk... You need it to get by for a time.

We all slip into the grasp of lazy thought. Did our race reach its peak and embrace its comfortable decline? or did Jesus' milkshake put the simple fear of hurt in your shirt? Look at sharks. They've been around for a while now, and I doubt you'll ever see one which isn't confident enough to go mate. It would be funny though. For a movie.

[Show]

nunna nunna nunna nunna FAT JAWWWS

VV would have progressed by not having stupid arguments like this one... if Rome had taken over the globe... and world culture later involved merciless, hugely popular slaughter of matadors and people alike. However, today we have many powers (countries, et al) that survive, each with their own tradition and culture. Their progression is not equivalent to our progression. If it was a big deal, we could easily nuke them.

I like having the option to cross the seas and, knowing I have no idea how the country's culture is (meant to be) progressing on a first person basis, witness a sequined man get gored through the throat for money and fame.

[Bagar-]

Nosy's partisan gibberish aside, I think this is a good model for what is necessary progress and what is progress for progress' sake.

I personally don't, but I'm capable of understanding that some people might want to watch a man fight a bull. If enough people in a given country want to do that to the degree that it's essentially on the same level as a national sport, that doesn't mean necessarily that any or all of those people are uncivilized, barbaric, stupid, or ignorant (all things that Nosy, on the other hand, is).

Wanting for those people to "progress" out of that seems a bit close minded. There are people that would vehemently assert that american football is barbaric, pointless, unnecessary, etc. and that americans should progress out of the football culture that is so prevalent throughout the country. They might argue that football fans are barbaric, stupid, ignorant, etc. - being a football fan, you might obviously disagree, but from someone that doesn't have any particular fondness for football, I can see the argument. However, like the bull argument, I can see why people would want to watch football, and that's pretty much their business. I'm not going to pass judgment on those people, or assume that they're of lesser intelligence or that they need to move forward and stop watching dudes chase a ball around for 2 and a half hours for entertainment.

To reinforce my argument and add another unnecessary metaphor, there are plenty of people whose ideal "progress" is seeing the banning of pretty much all non-educational video games. They see video games as being violent, and serving no practical purpose (as most vehicles for entertainment tend to do). They seem gamers as lazy, violent, and stupid.

Now there is something to be said for the unnecessary harm of an animal. However, do football players not get seriously injured from their sport? Do Nascar (again, something I personally find to be utterly fucking stupid) drivers not die in the pursuit of their particular "sport?" I know the modern attitude is that harming an animal is abhorrent and vile, but that's an american thing. Demeaning other groups because they don't share that view is as close minded as Nosy spouting off his anti-libral bullshit.

Xatrei, I know your post wasn't necessarily condemning the bullfighting, and was more in response to Nosy's textual diarrhea. Not trying to misrepresent your post - I just believe that there are people that might have the idea that because those filthy Spaniards practiice bullfighting, that they need to "progress" out of it to be a respectable culture. I'm not sure if you were intentionally comparing bullfighting to institutionalized racism, but I have more faith in your intelligence than that .

[masteen]

Any culture that embraces drankin and nappin in the middle of every weekday can't be all bad.

[miir]

Now there is something to be said for the unnecessary harm of an animal. However, do football players not get seriously injured from their sport? Do Nascar (again, something I personally find to be utterly fucking stupid) drivers not die in the pursuit of their particular "sport?" I know the modern attitude is that harming an animal is abhorrent and vile, but that's an american thing. Demeaning other groups because they don't share that view is as close minded as Nosy spouting off his anti-libral bullshit.

In a bullfight, the bull is not a willing participant like NFL players and NASCAR drivers.
They are not paid ridiculous sums of money and injury or death is not a risk, it's guaranteed.

[Leonaerd]

The bull also has no rights and tastes delicious.

[Bagar-]

And again, just because you belong to a culture where animals are treated as humans unless they're being eaten doesn't mean the Spanish do, and I would assert that it's not necessarily a point against them.

[Xatrei]

@bagar - no, I was not saying that torturing animals for sport is the same as institutionalized racism or any of the other examples I provided. I was merely listing some examples for Noysy of things that were once justified because they "were always done that way" yet civilized people, fortunately, have progressed beyond.

Let me be clear, though. I *am* condemning the practice of bullfighting as a barbaric and inhumane. People who derive pleasure from watching an animal being tortured for hours before it is killed are, in fact, barbaric and ignorant, imo. I think you're drawing some seriously flawed analogies with your comparison to video games or sports. Cartoon and virtual violence is not even in the same zipcode of the ballpark as the prolonged, real-world suffering of a living creature. American football is a physical game in which each one of the participants are willing and eager to participate. Most importantly physically harming, let alone killing, the opposition are not the *goals* of the game, even if they are sometimes the unintended consequence. The crowd doesn't go wild and cheer the shattered legs, destroyed knees separated shoulders, broken collar bones, spinal chord and brain injuries or, worse yet, deaths, that unfortunately are the byproduct of physical, contact sports.

Most industrialized countries have animal welfare laws with standards defining humane slaughter techniques to ensure that animals do not needlessly suffer on their way to becoming your Big Mac. Not surprisingly, Spain has not adopted such laws. Many people, myself included, would argue that where those laws do exist, they are generally not strict enough. I have very real issues with how food animals are treated in the modern factory production system, from birth to slaughter, but that's another discussion entirely. I can't even imagine the mindset that condones torturing an animal for a couple of hours for nothing more than the amusement of some barbaric people . Cultural and historical acceptance do not enter into the equation. As I pointed out before, humanity has historically accepted, and even encouraged, a great number of things that most civilized, modern humans would find abhorrent. Bullfighting is one of those things that was once widely accepted, and even romanticized by the likes of Hemingway, but is now seen as a barbaric, backwards practice by most civilized people. Even in Spain where it has been, perhaps, most widely accepted in the past, progress is happening. National interest in the fights are at an all time low, and a movement to end the barbaric practice is, for the first time, gaining serious, popular traction (in the past when it's been banned for brief intervals, the bans did not have popular support).

[miir]

And again, just because you belong to a culture where animals are treated as humans unless they're being eaten doesn't mean the Spanish do, and I would assert that it's not necessarily a point against them.

As Xatrei has pointed out, your analogies are both stupid and completely inaccurate.

I'm far from an animal rights activist... I'm not really all that concerned if my dinner was killed in the most humane manner but I do find it a tad disturbing that some people enjoy watching an animal be tortured and killed.

[Bagar-]

@Xatrei

Sure. I can see why you would empathize with animals and find particular disgust in their inhumane slaughter. My point was not to highlight the similarities between football or video games and bullfighting, but to show that many people find similar disgust in contact sports and video games, as different as they may be from the subject at hand. Sometimes you just have to accept that people aren't going to have the same priorities or empathize with the same things as you, and not necessarily pass judgment on their entire character because of one hobby. Like I said, I don't care for bullfighting one way or the other. In fact, despite my father's past attempts, I outright refuse to hunt deer or other animals. But I can at least respect that there is a culture of people that do, and I don't think that necessarily makes them barbaric by nature - I particularly don't think that it denotes a necessity for "progress." We're just going to disagree on that last part.

edit: Let me further clairify that if the spanish want to ban bullfighting, that's great too. It's their call I suppose. I just don't think some kind of moral imposition needs to be made upon them.

@Miir

Shouldn't you be overanalyzing the minute differences in video quality between the xbox360 and the ps3 for some hilariously irrelevant game you trollish fucking douchebag?

Just kidding buddy. The ps3 is totes better. You're the guy that likes the ps3 right? Or is that Winnow? You two are peas in a pod!

[miir]

Shouldn't you be overanalyzing the minute differences in video quality between the xbox360 and the ps3 for some hilariously irrelevant game

That would be Fairweather.

Or is that Winnow? You two are peas in a pod!

Winnow is the one who goes with the crowd. Low risk, safety in numbers.
I'm the one who tries to take the unpopular side of an argument. I like a challenge.




That doesn't change the fact that your analogies are fucking stupid.
There's a COLOSSAL difference between disliking the NFL/NASCAR and being opposed to the ritualistic torture and killing of animals for the porpose of entertainment.

[Canelek]

Could we even the playing field by ritualistically killing NASCAR drivers?

[Winnow]

Winnow is the one who goes with the crowd. Low risk, safety in numbers.
I'm the one who tries to take the unpopular side of an argument. I like a challenge.

I'm low risk? How in the hell did you come up that? Safety in numbers? Where's my posse when I need them!

[Boogahz]

your posse's on broadway

[Fairweather Pure]

your posse's on broadway

[Leonaerd]

I'm the one who tries to take the unpopular side of an argument. I like a challenge.

I think you're somewhere in between "letter of the law" and "trolling to feel good."

[Noysyrump]

Alright, you want my real opinion on the "sport" of bullfighting?

I fuckin think it's great. Give the bull half a chance, Fuck all this "shoot it at half a mile" bullshit. No, you have to kill it with a sword... before it kills you. Thats a true sport. 1 hundred years ago, you had to be weary, if you left the house, of wolves and bears. That shit is gone, bullfighting is the last vestige of the prehistoric 'us vs. them' nature of it all. I know it wont happen ever in the states, but hell I live in a border town and the bullring is mighty close (it actually sits on the border, so couldnt legaly be any closer).

As for 'the torture for hours of a living beeing'.... OH MY GOD. Are you fuking serious? Perhaps you would be happy if it was served up as veal instead. It's a fuking cow. Iv'e seen smarter goldfish. At least they're giving it a fighting chance, and thats what it's all about. The fight. Havent you ever fantasised about a fight. You're fuking lying if you havent. I dont mean a drunken bar brawl, I mean that neighbors dog that everyone hates, You know you've pictured it atacking somone and you jump in to save the day. It's natural. If you havent yer a fukin pansy douche.

[Winnow]

best bull fighting video ever!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAIjYs9Lws

Not content to be slowly tortured to death for the amusement of the crowd, an enraged bull leapt out of the arena and began attacking the crowd in something of an upset, the entire grisly event being captured on film.

For once it was the audience and not the bull which suffered – 40 people, including children, were reported injured after the bull turned its rage upon them at a bullring in northern Spain, its bloodstained horns glistening in the sun.

[Kluden]

holy shit that is funnay! I'm dying of laughter!! I thought I read or heard that bulls are color blind, and that red thing is a myth, but in that video, he is clearly angry as fuck at all things red! hahaha The folks wearing white were probably pretty happy that day! hahahah moral of video, if in attendance at a bull killing, don't wear red in the front row, douche! hahaha