cursed.. and ixtlan.....

Bratly · Post by **Bratly** » February 8, 2003, 7:12 am

so ixtlan... how did your attempt at cursed go?

..... maby next time you wont lie to the GM's...

-brad

devereaux · Post by **devereaux** » February 8, 2003, 7:32 am

Sooner or later you cheesedicks will get called on your z axis sploit. Honestly, setting your clerics up on top of arch away from ae and charmed pc's, do you really think it's that hard to not win? Be glad we had the good graces to not interfere with your fight like Sepentor did to ours. Your 'tactics' are currently being reviewed by a GM administrator.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » February 8, 2003, 7:35 am

brad, you are such a waste of oxygen.

Bratly · Post by **Bratly** » February 8, 2003, 7:37 am

Sargeras wrote:brad, you are such a waste of oxygen.

and from you, that does mean OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS. I will go kill myself now.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » February 8, 2003, 7:38 am

Good, one step closer to preventing pollution.

vaerd · Post by **vaerd** » February 8, 2003, 7:57 am

Funny how the gm who was called in deemed that there were no exploits used in our method of killing cursed after watching the entire fight. By the way, none of your complete bullshit about us mem blurring the mob was believed either.. you guys failed due completely to your own fucking stupidity and then we pulled the mob when the guide told us to. We proceed to get the mob to 30% and then it is depopped by the GM, who after a while decides that your guilds are full of complete bs and repops the mob at 100% for us which we proceed to kill easily.
There was no way sepentor could have interfered with the mob, it is so hilarious to me how much utter trash you spew when you are desperate.. damn lies left and right.
Nice work boys, how many times is that failing to cursed? 3 straight?

Lots of Love
Vaerd Essenceblade

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » February 8, 2003, 8:26 am

sooner or later, someone will give a shit about this topic

devereaux · Post by **devereaux** » February 8, 2003, 9:02 am

You can brag all you want, but you'll still be the same 10th percentile retards from the Jerry Lewis school for the mentally challenged who couldn't sprint their way past 2 midgets in a sack race without shouting in ooc or eqsn about how uber you are, or petitioning a GM whenever we blow a fart in your general direction. Yes, it takes a special level of inbreeding to produce the congenital disfunctional behavior that marks you as a natural Pravus Dei member, and as long as there are trailer parks and monster truck races, you losers will always have an ample supply of fresh bodies to throw at the next textbook encounter.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » February 8, 2003, 9:19 am

Gratz on Emporer, Ixtlan and Legion.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » February 8, 2003, 9:34 am

Didn't Bratly quit and Ebay?

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » February 8, 2003, 9:56 am

Vaerd- 1 straight. You guys left too early thursday night...

*Hugs*
Varia

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 8, 2003, 9:57 am

Sup, Dudes what's going on in this thread?

vaerd · Post by **vaerd** » February 8, 2003, 10:12 am

My mistake Varia, forgot about that.. by the way, you're much too good of a person to be guilded with those people - little fyi for you there.

As for you, devereaux, you can lay down as many unfounded and weak insults as you like, but the fact of the situation is that we were never exploiting or otherwise taking any actions against your cursed attempt that would make you fail it as you claimed to the GM. These facts were then realized when the GM checked the logs of the night. I'm glad it makes you feel like a big, brute man to talk trash about peoples real lives - people you have never even met before, but in the end you are the ones who fail and we are the ones who prevail. Hope you had fun watching us kick the utter shit out of the mob with all of those eyes that kept floating into camp.

It's situations like this that really put a smile on my face, the people who are dishonorable and use lying as their only means of getting ahead are the ones who karma finally catches up to. Get used to it, karma is a bitch.. and it looks like you're due.

Bratly · Post by **Bratly** » February 8, 2003, 10:33 am

Sabek wrote:Didn't Bratly quit and Ebay?

yes.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 8, 2003, 10:52 am

Bratly wrote:
Sabek wrote:Didn't Bratly quit and Ebay?
yes.

Christ, I care even less now.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » February 8, 2003, 11:39 am

Vaerd- The view of "those people" is naturally somewhat different from the inside. I think theyre mostly ok.

The real problems are old- Lingering disrespect from back when PD were unquestionably not very good. (Back when you were flailing away at Gorenaire and losing, kinda thing. Yeah,thats old, but you know what people are like about changing a negative attitude around here.

) Then compounded and perpetuated by more recent incidents once PD finally got their shit together and started becoming better which brought the old attitudes back in full force and lost the chance for a new beginning for your rep. (Most notably the "We spawned it!" and "Son of We spawned it!" episodes, which I personally witnessed. Unlike most training/countertraining accusations where the truth is usually obscure and often likely not what either side thinks they saw, these 2 incidents were not in the least unclear or mistakes.) So things continue, both sides mired in ancient mindsets and the pushing and shoving continues. I think the main bone of contention at the moment is the differing opinions on each side of what constitutes a valid kill force for the other. Ixtlegion thinks that you need more people to kill something than we do, so if you just show up in equal force and not superior force (in terms of numbers) by the time we're up to kill strength then we have the force to kill and you dont yet, therefor its ours. Obviously PD may disagree with that assessment of our relative strengths or the conclusion we draw from it, but PD hasnt explicitly said so, or discussed it. And to make this more volatile, due to a couple of past occasions, we're not happy with the idea of argueing with PD about whether or not PD has a kill force in place yet for 10 minutes during which time you bring in enough extra people to become a kill force, so what talking there is between leaders when a mob is up and we're both looking at it tends to be rather abrupt, and friction results. Generally Ixt/Leg respects being beaten to a mob and will leave the race-winner alone and go do something else. The problem we're having with PD is disagreeing on whether or not we have in fact been beaten to the mob. Some way of actually testing our relative strengths on Ssra critters (where we usually bump heads) so both sides could agree when ine side or the other had won the race, based on facts and not testosterone, would be good. I also think we should guildwar your asses (or you can guildwar ours, whichever)- a good evening of unrestricted carnage somewhere out of the way could go a long way to clearing the air a bit. Its fun and therepuetic to be able to righteously stomp on the one special dickweed who's been pissing you off all this time every now and then. Although you may have to book ahead to get a shot at Devereaux....

Sleestakk too.

I'd love spending an evening rampaging around some zone or other hunting and being hunted.

Just some thoughts.

*Hugs*
Varia

PS- I coulda spent some time proofreading for coherence etc, but I aint gonna. Deal.

CorrisCrimsin · Post by **CorrisCrimsin** » February 8, 2003, 1:21 pm

K so we are zerg . Yet you guys can't kill the mob (cursed) that is slightly less then striaghtfoward?

emmer · Post by **emmer** » February 8, 2003, 2:57 pm

VariaVespasa wrote:The real problems are old- Lingering disrespect from back when PD were unquestionably not very good. (Back when you were flailing away at Gorenaire and losing, kinda thing. Yeah,thats old, but you know what people are like about changing a negative attitude around here. ).

I'm not trying to piss in anyone's kool-aid on this thread, but what's all this PD flailing/losing to gorenaire? I remember back in the day losing to her a long time ago on a few attempts pre-velious, but I also remember fighting her with FoH the day she was patched in and we lost then as well. So what?

I don't really know the current state of affairs in PD, or ixtlan/legion for that matter, nor do I really care... but you're talking about a guild which, at least when I was in it, used to be pretty good. In our prime we were the second guild in ToV (after FoH), second in sleeper's tomb (after FoH), second or third in killing trakanon (after FoH, not sure if we beat CT to that or not)... cazic 2.0, sev, epics completed, etc. etc. we had done more than most anyone, more than ixtlan/legion combined, I can say for sure.

Anyway again, as far as using z-axis pindlebot wallstanding tradehacks to kill Cursed I couldn't comment on, just wanted to set the record straight on this whole "PD couldn't kill gorenaire" stuff... I know flames between rival guilds escalate and things get exaggerated but that really sounds like a bit of a stretch.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2003, 3:25 pm

.........................

Trek · Post by **Trek** » February 8, 2003, 3:31 pm

ok, Winnow wins

emmer · Post by **emmer** » February 8, 2003, 3:53 pm

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2003, 3:56 pm

You realize...this means avatar war!

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » February 8, 2003, 3:58 pm

mmmmmmm guildwar...

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » February 8, 2003, 4:16 pm

you know... guildwar sounds like fun... in the bazaar arena

that would be cool, collect both PD and Ixt/Leg at the bazaar arena and go at it with eachother.

Asheran Mojomaster · Post by **Asheran Mojomaster** » February 8, 2003, 4:28 pm

I get the first shot at Rekaar.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » February 8, 2003, 4:30 pm

Bratly plays Carnon now.

Kaluden Stormblade · Post by **Kaluden Stormblade** » February 8, 2003, 5:03 pm

Heh, the disrespect that PD gets from Ixtlan has NOTHING to do with whether they are white trash whores irl or suck at a video game (although these are believed to be true, independently). It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you guys blindly follow two people around that even the Geneva Convention would not consider human beings. Sleestakk has a rather impressive track record of PNPing, steamrolling and straight up claims that defy game mechanics (see the thread: "I spawned Statue!!"). Trias possesses a stupidity that is only rivaled by Sleestakk's legendary lootwhoredom.

See, each of the aforementioned jackasses are rather powerless when left to their own devices. But even the casual observer can predict the outcome when sheer idiocy and unparalleled selfishness are allowed to ferment in a remotely social environment---the results are guaranteed to be bad. You guys suck because of natural law, face it, what do you expect when you allow two retards to determine the way you are perceived by the Veeshan community? If you want things to get better, stop acting like assholes and actually work towards making your name worth a damn.

emmer · Post by **emmer** » February 8, 2003, 5:29 pm

Sleestakk has a rather impressive track record of PNPing, steamrolling and straight up claims that defy game mechanics (see the thread: "I spawned Statue!!")

The reason he said that is because you guys tried to gank statue after we had just cleared derakor on our way there, dumbass. Were you there? I was. I pulled that raid, I saw exactly what happened unlike 99% of the tools who keep bringing that event up.

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » February 8, 2003, 5:32 pm

emmer wrote:
Sleestakk has a rather impressive track record of PNPing, steamrolling and straight up claims that defy game mechanics (see the thread: "I spawned Statue!!")
The reason he said that is because you guys tried to gank statue after we had just cleared derakor on our way there, dumbass. Were you there? I was. I pulled that raid, I saw exactly what happened unlike 99% of the tools who keep bringing that event up.

Ahh shit, so THATS how you spawn statue.

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » February 8, 2003, 5:42 pm

Talu, really, I love following Trias. He's a good guildleader, gets the job done. I really couldn't give a shit what people think about me. If they are going to judge me because of my guild tag, that's pretty damn shallow, don't you think?

emmer · Post by **emmer** » February 8, 2003, 5:54 pm

I don't give a shit if the statue popped, was there, or was lowered on a platform from a fleet of chinook helicopters being flown in by al qaeda. We were in the right, and his point stands.

The bottom line is this: we were clearing content required to pass on to our target, you came in and tried to gank said target unsuccessfully. Now if the best you can do is try to argue a technicality on how the statue got there in the first place, which is completely irrelevent to the point, then maybe you should fabricate another angle to come from... possibly involving gorenaire.

Momopi · Post by **Momopi** » February 8, 2003, 7:39 pm

VariaVespasa wrote: The real problems are old- Lingering disrespect from back when PD were unquestionably not very good. (Back when you were flailing away at Gorenaire and losing, kinda thing.

Please refresh my memory but I can't seem to remember Legion beating Gore during Kunark or even shortly after Velious was released? In fact I can't seem to remember Legion ever killing the very hardest mobs within the same expansion and sucking the FoH teat to get into VP doesnt coun't. Despite what Legion thought, they were never as good as they pictured themselves to be. From running over our CR when we lost to Venril back in the kunark days, accusing Brogham of faking his death to cancer so he didnt have to pay back the white scale, training plenty of mobs on us in ToV when we were fighting Lendi the Keeper, to trying to tag our pull of the Statue in kael you have always given us a good reason to hate you guys. So please don't come here and put on that hollier than thou crud on us ok? As for Ixtlan, they are just a bunch of assholes so nothing really needs to be said.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » February 8, 2003, 8:22 pm

devereaux wrote:Sooner or later you cheesedicks will get called on your z axis sploit. Honestly, setting your clerics up on top of arch away from ae and charmed pc's, do you really think it's that hard to not win? Be glad we had the good graces to not interfere with your fight like Sepentor did to ours. Your 'tactics' are currently being reviewed by a GM administrator.

gm admin and guide stood by at our request and watched our tactic last night...the fact that you perhaps think we were exploiting is ridiculous...a z-axis sploit would be an exploit where someone can either heal/cast/dmg a toon or npc while being aggro'd but not able to be damaged by said mob...we put our clerics on top of an arch where you can actually put cursed on if you really wanted to...

then the claims the gms told us were that our people on top of the arch could not take dmg from charmed PC's...but that was quickly refuted do to the fact that once a player is charmed he looses full control and takes on the ability of an NPC that CAN attack and dmg anyone sitting on top of the arch as well as anyone within the area on the floor...it's just a place to keep clerics/casters out of our way...same thing as them sitting behind a wall to not take the ae dmg...same shit you try to do but fail at doing

and about any zerg statements...ixt/leg had more people in the zone than us last night when competiting for cursed...the MAX we ever have on raids is 60...the average raid had 45 to 55 pd members on it

and about the pnp shit...i think you guys did that last night at emp...i received lovely tells like "now you are fucked we have foh people otw that are not yet PoEb flagged" "your loss"...then a guide comes in and tells me that even though i have half my raid force IN the room with Blood and emp that we have to leave because you guys also have a force in the zone to kill him...only difference was that you were ready taht second and we were still prepping...said guide brought in a gm admin Darcfae whom said that it's ok for anyone to kill any mob if their force is ready before the other

other tells i received from a person in legion were along the lines of "ok i'm getting a gm here right now to force you to roll for the spawn"...great stuff

please play the "pravus dei" is evil, fucktard, white trailer trash, fags, assholes, incompetent, weak, scumbags, scourge of the server, going to break up, pieces of shit card as long as it makes you feel good...we will be killing mobs, getting geared, and moving forward...and we care very little for this lack of respect that those of you in ixtlan and legion have for us

and that is that

Avryce · Post by **Avryce** » February 8, 2003, 8:49 pm

Trias wrote:
and about the pnp shit...i think you guys did that last night at emp...i received lovely tells like "now you are fucked we have foh people otw that are not yet PoEb flagged" "your loss"...then a guide comes in and tells me that even though i have half my raid force IN the room with Blood and emp that we have to leave because you guys also have a force in the zone to kill him...only difference was that you were ready taht second and we were still prepping...said guide brought in a gm admin Darcfae whom said that it's ok for anyone to kill any mob if their force is ready before the other

other tells i received from a person in legion were along the lines of "ok i'm getting a gm here right now to force you to roll for the spawn"...great stuff

I would just like you to explain you guys still sitting at ZONE IN when we began moving then the resulting 3-4 trains that got dumped on us as you guys gimped past. You see that's how you ended up in prep room before us constantly training us as you ran past.

Then of course the stalling began seems like the GM's decision was made when you wouldn't answer them on your time till engagement.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » February 8, 2003, 8:53 pm

you saw my /ooc and you can ask gaklek himself...the retarded gm didn't have his tells on for like 10 min so i could not even respond to the GM

gak had the same issue with the GM...that is why i could not answer his tells

*edit* you also forgot to quote the part where i got tells of being told that you guys were getting a gm there to FORCE us to roll for emp

guess that isn't PnPing?

Avryce · Post by **Avryce** » February 8, 2003, 9:02 pm

Lol with your band of people in his room any attempt we had made most likely would have been sabotaged in some manner. Address the issue though did you or did you not train us as you ran past? At that point it was decided forcing a roll would be the best issue as we wouldn't get a clean attempt anyways with you there.

Gratz on your cursed btw

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2003, 9:02 pm

guess my hijack attempt on this thread failed

Trias · Post by **Trias** » February 8, 2003, 9:16 pm

we were moving up...a group of your folks ran past us with mobs...we then ran past that group...makes sense when someone is trying to roll past you...i can't count the times where this has been happening between our guilds and it is sad no matter what is said on either side

yah gm respawned cursed for PD after he realized the lies that were petitioned to him...thanks though

gratz on your emp x2 too...see you in VT soon

Trias · Post by **Trias** » February 8, 2003, 9:16 pm

go nuts and jack it winnow =)

done here

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » February 8, 2003, 9:29 pm

Trias wrote:then the claims the gms told us were that our people on top of the arch could not take dmg from charmed PC's...but that was quickly refuted do to the fact that once a player is charmed he looses full control and takes on the ability of an NPC that CAN attack and dmg anyone sitting on top of the arch as well as anyone within the area on the floor.

Trias, have you ever sat up there? Last time I checked, NPC's (that especially means charmed PC's) CAN'T JUMP! And the only way you can get up there is if you're lev'd, or have to jump when you reach the top of either side of the arch. Sooooo, since NPC's can't jump and aren't lev'd.... explain to me how charmed people can get up there?

And while we are on the base of nostalgia, lets go over some more memories:
Melalafen - sure did kill the CoF market exploiting this guy huh?
Tunare - running to populated zones recruiting numerous clerics with offers of ganderous adventure and great loots! Kiting AL for good times.
AoW - Wow, more cleric recruiting, some trains, another good place to start ---> here.

It's a sick, sad history. Live with it.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 8, 2003, 9:35 pm

Come on now... Everyone was balls jealous it wasn't their guild who farmed Melelafen at the time.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » February 8, 2003, 9:46 pm

It was a fucking plain and simple exploit. Sleestakk had the nerve to come off that "Oh we didn't know that the mob was broken". A retard with a labotomy could tell the mob was freaking broken.

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » February 8, 2003, 9:48 pm

Honestly who gives two shits about any of this. Oh and Trias why don't you PM me the names of the people that sent you those tells because I honestly don't belive a fucking word you said about them.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 8, 2003, 9:52 pm

Sabek wrote:It was a fucking plain and simple exploit. Sleestakk had the nerve to come off that "Oh we didn't know that the mob was broken". A retard with a labotomy could tell the mob was freaking broken.

It was a verant mistake, not a player exploit. The one time in the history of the game that a bug worked in the favor of the player. Right on.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » February 8, 2003, 9:58 pm

ok i was done...

but yes the gms did see that the people on the arch CAN get take dmg ie. be attacked by cursed AND charmed people...FROM the ground...just like a mob can hit through the walls and floors of MANY places...petition and ask to speak to the gm admin and he will tell you our strat is fine...he was there and saw it for himself

melalafen thing was done with about 80% different member base and over 2 years ago not under my lead...we did not exploit the kill...the mob was just dropping shit it shouldn't have and we farmed the fuck out of it, i can name other guilds that have taken advantage of many things like this...this is not something you see me trying to hide...end of story

aow shit...how many did you have when you first started killing aow with foh or with CT?...quite a few i imagine...we killed his ass the other day with 42, no amazing feat...but JUST pd...our first TWO kills we had some outside help and it was great of them to help us out...night before our first kill we were rolled by you guys at tormax...as for you link...wonderful, kaluden has cunt for brains is all i see there...we get rolled at tormax and you expect us to be buddy buddy and let you take your sweet time to stall on idol/aow the following day untill you had the force there?

Tunare...we have killed Ail...just faster to not have to...we don't touch her anymore besides

i'm sure PD and many other guilds can bring up shit that you have done that is part of your sick/poor history just as easily and post them here, just as you like to do for us...doesn't change anything

everytime we are in a zone and you guys decide to come to the same zone, i get told almost this exact quote by your leadership "you have this amount of time (insert small number of minutes) or we are taking it"...so please continue to attempt this brow beating and bullying...but expect it back

i am done answering flames and inquiries in this thread...email me at Trias@pravusdei.org if you'd like to continue

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 8, 2003, 10:44 pm

Momopi wrote:Please refresh my memory but I can't seem to remember Legion beating Gore during Kunark or even shortly after Velious was released? In fact I can't seem to remember Legion ever killing the very hardest mobs within the same expansion and sucking the FoH teat to get into VP doesnt coun't. Despite what Legion thought, they were never as good as they pictured themselves to be. From running over our CR when we lost to Venril back in the kunark days, accusing Brogham of faking his death to cancer so he didnt have to pay back the white scale, training plenty of mobs on us in ToV when we were fighting Lendi the Keeper, to trying to tag our pull of the Statue in kael you have always given us a good reason to hate you guys. So please don't come here and put on that hollier than thou crud on us ok? As for Ixtlan, they are just a bunch of assholes so nothing really needs to be said.

I'm personally amazed that you managed to level yourself beyond 50 what with changing guilds fifteen times a day, you fucking moron.

When I was in Legion we killed that stupid fucking dragon exactly enough times to get those ridiculous fucking scales for bard epics and then it was left alone by us forever. Try to wrap that peanut rolling around in your fucking skull around the notion that no one really deemed it necessary to give you fucking daily updates as to our activities, although I'm sure it was brought up once or twice.

Moron.

Stupid fucking moron.

How dare you, you of all people even dare question anyone else's efforts in EQ? You froglok humping newbie I never even saw your gimp ass outside sebilis begging for a fucking group. Did you even see the inside of TOV until fucking planes of power was out? You stupid piece of shit.

I can't even believe you tired ass fucking retards can even summon enough brainpower to recall anything beyond what you had for lunch.

The fucking notion that pravus dei was ever, ever anything remotely even close to resembling a guild that was even in the same fucking league as us is fucking ridiculous. Yeah grats on your woushi runs and gorenaire I can assure you that we were really impressed that you wiped to stuff we never bothered with with your guild size roughly ten times that of ours. At least fucking ebay appreciates your massive contribution to the world of norrath.

Souldinkou Soulfury · February 8, 2003, 10:49 pm

Dev:

cheesedicks

rofl

kyoukan.. gj.. Do you own a Type R or something?

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » February 8, 2003, 10:55 pm

Actually PD was in NToV well before Planes of Power...As were many guilds...it's why CT had to move on prematurely.

Ixtlan and Legion are actually good people. I went on a few of thier raids and they are also a lot better players then people give them credit for. There is no doubt in my mind they can take cursed w/o exploits...they kill Terris, Behmoth, Grummus and all sorts of other PoP mobs..why can't they take cursed? Is he a special mob?

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » February 8, 2003, 10:58 pm

Kyoukan wrote:Try to wrap that peanut rolling around in your fucking skull around the notion that no one really deemed it necessary to give you fucking daily updates as to our activities, although I'm sure it was brought up once or twice.

Moron.

Stupid fucking moron

Baahahahaha I'd like to take this moment to stop and laugh at momopi

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » February 8, 2003, 11:23 pm

Momopi- Actually I dont think Legion has ever tried Gorenaire, but I was in Riders of Twilight during Kunark so they might have. Certainly they havent done it since I joined while I've been on (Early velious). Mostly did Severilious for warrior epic bits, with the occasional red dragon later on for fun in RoT. Probably because our bards had white scales from the Vox runs that Mplor and Avestan used to run back then I guess, so it wasnt worth the time or something. VP- Legion hasnt actually done VP either, let alone with anyone's help. Back when Kunark was in its prime Legion was a lot smaller than it is now (Before I even joined Legion actually, but we (Riders of Twilight) did hassle chardok with them occasionally). It was Velious when Legion came into its own, and after getting geared up in HoT armor people never really got very enthusiastic about keying up for VP, so the effort sorta fizzled out. The gorenaire/PD stuff I mentioned was from sometime in velious I think, but I dont recall when exactly. Like I say, old stuff. You didnt always lose or anything either, but it was the unreliability of the wins and the fact that PD was all lvl 60's that stuck in the mind. And as I also said, youre a lot better these days. Guests or no (and I dont consider guests to be a big sin anyway), AoW etc is still noteworthy, and like everyone else you get better at an encounter (and can do it with smaller forces) as you get more practice and your gear improves.

"We spawned it" started off as a pushing and shoving thing with neither side willing to agree the other was there first in force. It was the actual "we spawned it" comment that was humorous, and that IS a direct quote, not a rewording or paraphrase. Granted, if Vindi is up then you have to clear him to get at the Statue. That said, the "Son of We spawned it!" thing was PD doing precisely what you say we did- we killed vindi and then you roll in and pull statue while we were medding.

Best you can get from that is a no-win draw in the blame game.

Melalafen- That exploit was only about a year ago maybe, not two. Not too long before the Sleepers revamp I think, 3-4 months. Remember, 2 years ago was only a few months after Velious came out...

Exageration is the death of credibility, so its a bad habit to get into.

Z-axis. I still havent seen a GM say you WERE getting hit up there. If you are getting hit, and just as often as anywhere else then its not an issue. But I havent seen a GM say that yet. They *have* watched you, they *have* said that its currently flagged "as intended", and they also *have* said that they dont like it and have posted it for review. Time will tell, and there's not much to do about it till it does. I do have a question however- why go to the trouble of getting your clerics up there if you derive no benefit from doing so, when the wall serves you just as well for avoiding the ae?...

AoW- The first AoW kill was indeed with FoH, with a force strength of 85 I think. Being the first ever kill I'd say it was a reasonable force at the time. Nowadays, as you've noted, he does take rather less...

I still think a guildwar would be a good idea, but not in an arena. Too closed in, and the pvp flag of the arena limits some of the stuff you can do. I'd prefer either wider open area, or a good dungeon with lots of twists and turns and alternate pathing., with no faction issues. Upper or liveside guk would be the best I think if it didnt have faction issues. Maybe SolA would work.

*Hugs*
Varia