Impact to the economy of Bain Capitol vs. stimulus spend?

[Aabidano]

Talking to a co-worker and watching the campaign adverts makes me wonder: What's the long term impact to the US (and global) economy of Romney's Bain Capitol's activities vs. Obama's stimulus spending?

My off the cuff thought is much of the money Bain made was in dismantling businesses & industries. Those & jobs & tax dollars are never coming back. Bain, like mainly other investment companies basically wound the businesses down screwing thousands of workers and shareholders in the process, leaving a shell of debt behind for the tax payers to pick up. One of the few certain & quick ways to squeeze profits from a slow economy.

The effect of the stimulus is spending towards the banking system seems to have been a good thing, I think we'd have been worse off by not doing so. Other bits and pieces I'm not so sure about, leaving GM management in place would seem to be a bad idea for instance.

Plus, have been wondering, we keep seeing reports that X paid the stimulus funds back, did we in turn pay off our debtors or use it as a free loan?

My big complaint in the banking area is they haven't put the needed regulation back in place to prevent recurrence.

All of this keeping in mind Romney &Co actually had control at Bain. Obama can only do what the other branches/parties allow him to do. While he's on top and a good scapegoat, he's not an emperor.

[masteen]

Given that GM cars continue to be utter excrement, I'd say leaving their management in place was a huge mistake, and as soon as the gov't pulls out, expect them to go back to the same short-term assclownery that got them in trouble to being with.

[miir]

Given that GM cars continue to be utter excrement

According to who?

GM is actually making some really excellent cars these days according to automobile journalists.
You may not personally like their cars, but they are apparently good enough to make GM the most successful automobile company in the world last year.

[Aabidano]

as soon as the gov't pulls out, expect them to go back to the same short-term assclownery that got them in trouble to being with.

Agree with that part. Driven in part by the financial sector as they don't have the foresight/guts to spend their own money on R&D on a consistent basis without getting beat up by the market. Similar stupidity has taken out a number of US industries.

Consensus on auto quality today seems to be pretty good across all the makers, GM being towards the cheap end but decent enough mechanically. You're basically shopping on features, fit/finish & price. Looked at them when I was car shopping in the spring, wasn't real impressed compared to similar Honda/Mazda/Ford models. (Fit/3/Focus/Sonic)

[masteen]

They might be comparable when brand spanking new, but two years down the road the lag in quality is blatant in GM and D-C. Their KBB and Edmund's numbers reflect this.

I'll give some credit to Ford, because not only did they hire Mike Rowe, but they actually build cars that aren't embarassingly shitty before you're even done paying for them. This only applies to the most recently designed models. Their trucks and vans and those gawd awful land barge crown vics are still shitty.

[kyoukan]

GM and Chrysler, and to a lesser extent Ford manufacture their cars like that on purpose though. GM doesn't build cars anymore; they build revenue generating machines who's tertiary function to to move people around. Dealers hardly make any money off selling cars, but an embarrassing amount of people take their car back to the dealer to have it serviced at their criminal shop rates and exorbitant parts prices. The number of people who take their cars back to the dealer is going up as well, as GM and Chryslers are increasingly hard to service. Most new American cars you can't even get at the motor unless you have special tools that GM does not sell and has patents on. There is just a big fucking panel over top of everything with a positive lead for your battery and a dipstick. Some makes don't even let you at your dipstick and you have to rely on the computer to tell you how much oil you have and how dirty it is.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

You are right about dipsticks going away...mostly because people are too stupid or too lazy to be able to check their oil.

As for the covers and needing special tools, that must be for cars going to Canada, because that is not factual at all for cars here. Those covers are just covers to make them shiny and pretty for the retarded consumers. I have yet to see any influx of proprietary tools for any engine work.

[Aabidano]

They might be comparable when brand spanking new, but two years down the road the lag in quality is blatant in GM and D-C. Their KBB and Edmund's numbers reflect this.

Mechanically they're decent enough out to ~6/60 or so given decent maintenance. At 3-4 year they do look like craps, especially after getting cooked in the FL sun.

The price on a car that rattles and looks natty isn't going to be good no matter how well it runs. The Yaris got knocked off my list after looking at a couple used ones for that reason. (I bought a Focus 5dr, close run between that and a Fit)

[Aslanna]

I still have my 96 Ford. And while I respect them for not taking any bailout money this will definitely be the last Ford I own. Hopefully it will last me until the next Infiniti model year and I can get rid of it once and for all. Most of my hate comes from shitty dealers who don't bother fixing your car properly the first time. And charge $95 diagnostic fee for every fucking thing even if you can diagnose the issue in 20 seconds.

[Winnow]

My car has 240,000 miles on it. I change the oil each year, air/oil filters if needed, make sure there's air in the tires and that's about it. It's a Honda. 400 miles per tank of gas. (that's petrol for you euros)

I don't give a shit about cars as long as it's reliable and quiet with decent gas mileage. Whenever my car eventually goes I'll research the most reliable used car about 4 years old and pay cash for it. I was hoping the hybrids would have dropped more in price by now.

[Funkmasterr]

I still have my 96 Ford. And while I respect them for not taking any bailout money this will definitely be the last Ford I own. Hopefully it will last me until the next Infiniti model year and I can get rid of it once and for all. Most of my hate comes from shitty dealers who don't bother fixing your car properly the first time. And charge $95 diagnostic fee for every fucking thing even if you can diagnose the issue in 20 seconds.

Good choice! I really like my Infiniti. I have a 04 G35X, it's at about 77k miles and I've put very little money into repairs. Aside from normal maintenance, I've done a wheel bearing, and that's it. I'm actually working on it now, filters, belts, plugs, etc. changing a headlight is a pain, the front bumper has to come off, and the
Fuel filter is in the gas tank. I can forgive those stupid design flaws though, because it's a nice looking car and still runs like new.

[kyoukan]

You are right about dipsticks going away...mostly because people are too stupid or too lazy to be able to check their oil.

As for the covers and needing special tools, that must be for cars going to Canada, because that is not factual at all for cars here. Those covers are just covers to make them shiny and pretty for the retarded consumers. I have yet to see any influx of proprietary tools for any engine work.

Sorry. I'm not talking about cars made before 1985. I know that's all you can afford. This is probably just another thread you should stay the hell out of.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

When you get your step ladder and actually work under a hood, you come let me know. This guy has done plenty of work on vehicles.


I guess you should enlighten us and tell us exactly what you have done to a vehicle yourself in the last 5 years. Please, don't leave anything out.]

If I ever need advice on how to keep cake from sticking to a bundt pan, feel free to give technical advice. When all of your "technical expertise" comes only from the intarwebz, then you should just shut the fuck up.

[kyoukan]

yeah changing the air filter on your 1993 chevy cavalier doesn't really qualify you as a mechanic. but please keep talking up every thread about cars and guns that shows up because you're such a transparent, pussy little loudmouthed internet douchebag that it might as well be your email address.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

no really....the guys on the jeep forums are getting a kick out of your retardation. Please continue with your revelations....

[Winnow]

Does this engine cover protect it from neutrino bombardment?

[kyoukan]

oh god; not the jeep forums! you've humiliated me for the last time!

lol...

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I am still waiting for your list of work.

[Zaelath]

She's probably still waiting for your long-form birth certificate before handing over her tax returns... oh wait, that was some other stupidity I heard of recently.