09 NFL Discussion Thread

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 11, 2008, 2:14 am

The Cardinals' MNF curse is over! The 49'er's are who we thought they were and we didn't let the off the hook!

1-6 now in Monday night games since coming to Arizona!

Arizona has a 4 game lead in the division with seven games left. I hope some teams underestimate them with the shitty performance they had tonight (well shitty with the defensive penalties)

Two picks for TDs were called back. They just need to learn some discipline on the line.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » November 11, 2008, 8:33 am

Congratulations on beating a team that has only won two games this season.

Also, go Bucs!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » November 11, 2008, 9:36 am

Yes, thank you cardinals for keeping me a live for another week in the survivor poll. I didn't know about the curse when I made that pack...phew!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 11, 2008, 2:56 pm

I was praying for big defensive scoring from the Cards but those penalties screwed me over. I am now 5-5 in three of my Fantasy Football leagues. Not because of the Cards but because of Braylon Edwards. He's potentially too good to bench but then he doesn't show up when you do play him. Unfortunately for me I picked him second in both my cash leagues. I am most disappointed.

Speaking of disappointment, Mason Crosby has screwed me over twice now and on many levels. His missed fieldgoal last week cost me money in a points pool, cost me a lose in Fantasy Football, and cost the Packers the game.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » November 11, 2008, 3:28 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote: and cost the Packers the game.

Actually, the bullshit safety barely anyone is talking about cost you that game. Rodgers threw a completely legal pass (it was a similar hand motion to a shuttle pass, but either way, legal), but it was ruled an illegal forward pass (oh? he was behind the line of scrimmage in the end zone?). After the game, they apparently
decided to change the ruling to "intentional grounding" which is even more retarded because it almost hit a legal receiver in the feet (inches from them). It was an incomplete pass ruled a safety against the Packers, in a game where the Packers lost by 1 point. Terrible.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 11, 2008, 4:17 pm

I was watching that replay in a bar with no sound, and I couldn't possibly comprehend how that was a safety. I chalked it up to some obscure rule that I didn't know about, however knew that wasn't possible, since I know everything.

About football.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » November 27, 2008, 5:41 pm

The Detroit Lions aren't very good at playing football.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » November 27, 2008, 5:46 pm

Spang you are screwing up Winnow's Cardinal thread with talk about other teams. I know it says NFL, but come on, everyone knows that sports begin and end in Arizona. I mean ASU is about to win their 3rd straight national title in Football. The Suns are 7 time repeat champs and Arizona won yet another National Championship in college basketball. Obviously a Cardinal title is next in line. Oh and I almost forgot the DBack's really won the west, you just did not notice it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 27, 2008, 6:10 pm

Don't forget ASU Basketball!

Currently ranked 14th in the nation!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » November 27, 2008, 8:12 pm

Who gave those kids a record deal?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » November 27, 2008, 9:17 pm

For the record, the Detroit Lions are the worst football team I have ever seen in my life. They should completely eliminate that entire team and start over from the ground up with an expansion draft next year.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » November 27, 2008, 9:30 pm

Have you seen a Rams game this year?

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 27, 2008, 11:53 pm

I believe that the Lions failures have tainted other football teams in the state. Just ask the Wolverines!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 1, 2008, 4:32 pm

Well it was the dolphins last year. So do you think the Lions will win at least one game this year? Do you think that the first pick in their draft will be another WR?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 1, 2008, 5:37 pm

I think this year's Detroit Lions are the worst team in the history of organized football.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 1, 2008, 6:48 pm

Lions won't win a game this year. Curse be damned. I'm right this time!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 3, 2008, 12:54 pm

Winnow wrote:Lions won't win a game this year. Curse be damned. I'm right this time!

This is the strongest test of the Winnow Curse I have personally witnessed. I believe I am going to put my money on the Lions this week against the Vikings.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 3, 2008, 2:09 pm

Wow. I better call my bookie as well.

After Torrain went down for the second time, I was fully convinced of maximum curse.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 29, 2008, 1:54 am

Winnow wrote:Lions won't win a game this year. Curse be damned. I'm right this time!

Congratulations!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2008, 2:32 am

Thanks!

Cardinal WR trio Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston are only three receivers to go over 1000 yards in the same season besides the Washington Redskin group what had Monk, Sanders and Clark.

Grats Arizona!

They have a shot at home VS Atlanta next week!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 29, 2008, 2:38 am

It's too bad the Bucs couldn't win.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 29, 2008, 4:32 am

Winnow wrote:Thanks!

Cardinal WR trio Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston are only three receivers to go over 1000 yards in the same season besides the Washington Redskin group what had Monk, Sanders and Clark.

Grats Arizona!

They have a shot at home VS Atlanta next week!

AP: 1782 yards, 9 tds, 8 fumbles

LT: 1440 yards, 9 tds, 1 fumble

So, 342 yards vs 7 fumbles.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » December 29, 2008, 11:00 am

I never post in this forum, but I'm pretty much glowing over yesterday's win. Fuck all you Cowboy fans, Go Eagles! I'm surrounded by rabid Redskin and Cowboy fans, today is a great day.

I don't give a fuck if we lose immediately in the Playoffs, although I think we can do well if we start being consistent.

miir · Post by **miir** » December 29, 2008, 3:06 pm

Aardor wrote:AP: 1782 yards, 9 tds, 8 fumbles

LT: 1440 yards, 9 tds, 1 fumble

So, 342 yards vs 7 fumbles.

LT at his worst is better than Peterson at his best.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2008, 5:52 pm

AP wins. Thanks for playing. See you for next year's debate.

miir · Post by **miir** » December 29, 2008, 6:04 pm

Technically, Michael Turner won...

The point is that Tomlinson had the worst season of his career and he was still more productive than Adrian Peterson.
Peterson is pretty good, but to compare him to (future hall of famer) Tomlinson is just asinine.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 29, 2008, 6:18 pm

Winnow wrote:AP wins. Thanks for playing. See you for next year's debate.

Under what point system? i.e. post the details. 7 fumbles can definitely out weigh 342 yards (34.2 points in most leagues), depending how you score it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2008, 6:31 pm

Aardor wrote:
Winnow wrote:AP wins. Thanks for playing. See you for next year's debate.
Under what point system? i.e. post the details. 7 fumbles can definitely out weigh 342 yards (34.2 points in most leagues), depending how you score it.

What insane fumble point scale do you play under? At most, a fumble is -3 points. That would be a -21 difference between AP and LT.

AP wins.

I assume most leagues are even less than -3 per fumble.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 29, 2008, 6:37 pm

Winnow wrote:
Aardor wrote:
Winnow wrote:AP wins. Thanks for playing. See you for next year's debate.
Under what point system? i.e. post the details. 7 fumbles can definitely out weigh 342 yards (34.2 points in most leagues), depending how you score it.

What insane fumble point scale do you play under? At most, a fumble is -3 points. That would be a -21 difference between AP and LT.

AP wins.

I assume most leagues are even less than -3 per fumble.

It certainly depends. You make it out to be like it would be absurd to count fumbles as more than -3, even though there are numerous leagues which do so, in addition to some which counter more heavily on fumbles which are lost (since that is a tracked stats). Assuming your -21 for fumbles, and my 1 point per 10 yards, AP wins by 13 points..., pretty hard to say which one was the better choice (It was Brian Westbrook) for fantasy.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2008, 7:03 pm

Take a poll, see how many count fumbles as more than -3. Most will be under -3, no clue who has them for more than that and what minor insignificant percentage it is. Nice try.

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » December 29, 2008, 8:14 pm

in a non-fantasy world, LT wins.

The Cowboys are fucking abysmal, terrible, pitiful and pretty crappy. They deserve nothing, and as long as the coaching staff remains, deserve what they get. Stupid stupid stupid stupid.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2008, 8:22 pm

Gzette wrote:in a non-fantasy world, LT wins.

What does that have to do with Fantasy Football points? You could being up an argument for consistency. Taking a look at how each performed on a week by week basis would be worthwhile.

On planet Ork, Mork would Pwn both of them.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 29, 2008, 8:56 pm

Fumbling the football eight times in one season is kind of bad. By comparison, LaDainian Tomlinson has fumbled the football six times in four seasons of football.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2008, 9:31 pm

Spang wrote:Fumbling the football eight times in one season is kind of bad. By comparison, LaDainian Tomlinson has fumbled the football six times in four seasons of football.

Yes it's bad. That doesn't make LT a better fantasy football player than AP though this year. AP could be a child molestor and a Nazi but even if he is, he was still a better FF player than LT2 this year.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » December 30, 2008, 1:53 am

You are all missing a real big counter argument to Winnow here...the rest of the stats.
Copypasta from yahoo.com. 2008 stats.

LT:
Rush:292
Yds:1110
Y/G:69.4
Avg:3.8
TD:11

Rec: 52
Yds: 426
Y/G: 26.6
Avg: 8.2
Lng: 32
YAC: 9.3
1stD: 18
TD: 1

Fum: 1
FumL: 0

AP:
Rush: 363
Yds: 1760
Y/G: 110.0
Avg: 4.8
TD: 10

Rec: 21
Yds: 125
Y/G: 7.8
Avg: 6.0
Lng: 16
YAC: 6.6
1stD: 4
TD: 0

Fum: 9
FumL: 4

What's this mean? Adrian Peterson got more yards, and had a better Average Yards/Attempt, but he loses in every receiving category (and rushing TD's) while his fumbles and fumbles lost are atrocious.

That makes LaDainian Tomlinson the best Running Back this year (by far).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 30, 2008, 2:40 am

Here's how they stacked up in my FF league:

Im not seeing LT as a clear winner even in non FF but AP dominated the FF points. Take away 21 points from AP if you want Fumbles -3.

So I was right this year. It was changing of guard for FF points. Next year, more people will keep clinging to LT2 as he wears down more each year. LT2 is one of the greatest all time for sure.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 30, 2008, 10:20 am

One of the leagues I do gives a half point per reception...LT2 probably has another year or two of being a higher pick than AP in it.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 30, 2008, 7:27 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:One of the leagues I do gives a half point per reception...LT2 probably has another year or two of being a higher pick than AP in it.

WHAT KIND OF STUPID LEAGUE DO YOU PLAY IN???????

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 30, 2008, 8:30 pm

PPR is gey

These new leagues probably have some sort of superstar insurance as well where you can subtract five points a week from your Week's total in return for guaranteeing 20 points from your star player if they don't play.

No matter how you try to squeeze points out of players, AP had the better year, unless LT2 is getting a point for each time the camera is on him or something.

For FF leagues based at least somewhat on traditional scoring, AP received more points.

2. Adrian Peterson, RB, Vikings (2): The league's leading rusher carried the Vikings to their first-ever NFC North title. Though defenses were intent on stopping the Vikings' potent running game, Peterson finished with 1,760 rushing yards and led the league with 10 100-yard rushing games.

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » December 31, 2008, 8:09 am

I had first pick in my league and i took AP. Granted i didn't make it to the playoffs cause of Plaxico and Pittman being out for the season, but AP contributed greatly to me getting my highscoring weeks. I would still pick the same team again. I blame my loss this year on injuries. AP was a much better fantasy back this year than LT in my league.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 31, 2008, 9:25 pm

The Shanny firing was shocking. I figured Bowlen would give him one more year. That said, it is about fucking time for Denver to get a real GM. Hopefully, they can find a serviceable coach as well. Cowher would be my choice, or that D-Coordinator from Baltimore. It is quite obvious the Broncos need an entirely new defensive scheme, and the personnel to fill it.

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » January 2, 2009, 2:07 pm

Winnow, I was referring to fumbles when I said in a non-fantasy world. Spang already answered that. Fantasy-wise, didnt Burner Turner and DeAngelo have better seasons than AP?

LT battled turf toe all year, so he could come back and be hot-awesome again next year. As it stands, I'd rather have AP on a fantasy squad. I was one of the people who took LT #1 in draft.

The Shanahan firing was unexpected and sad. Both the owner and Mike looked pretty shaken up from what I saw of footage of the press conference. It makes no sense to me. Shanahan has pretty consistently gotten that team to the playoffs with lackluster talent. But I guess they want to take the team another way.

So now he's got to be one of the top coaching prospects for teams looking for new leadership. Either him or Cowher.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 2, 2009, 2:21 pm

This is embarrassing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2 ... id=3805057

ESPN wrote:The NFL has granted a second, final 24-hour extension of its television blackout deadline for the Arizona Cardinals' wild card playoff game against Atlanta on Saturday.

The team has until 2:30 p.m. on Friday to sell its remaining tickets. A sellout crowd is necessary for the NFL to lift its blackout of the home television market.

The NFL had already extended the deadline 24 hours to 2:30 p.m. on Thursday. In a news release, the team said 3,700 tickets remained

The Cardinals can't even sell out a freaking home playoff game to lift the local blackout? Holy fuck, this is the worst franchise in professional sports.

Edit: Vikings evidently have the same problem (with even more unsold tickets). Cards may still be the worst though. It's a close matchup with the Clippers.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 2, 2009, 7:30 pm

Shanahan has pretty consistently gotten that team to the playoffs with lackluster talent.

Well, I wouldn't really go that far. Only one playoff victory in the last 10 years, post-Elway QB carosel no workhorse back since Portis and poor defensive draft last several years... I thought the better solution would be to offer him the head coaching job, but bring a real GM.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 3, 2009, 5:07 pm

I hope the Cardinals don't embarrass themselves in their first home playoff game in 61 years.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 3, 2009, 9:40 pm

Thanks for your concern. The Cardinals did just fine.

On to the second round!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 4, 2009, 8:33 pm

Gzette wrote: LT battled turf toe all year, so he could come back and be hot-awesome again next year. As it stands, I'd rather have AP on a fantasy squad. I was one of the people who took LT #1 in draft.

So you're making injury excuses for LT2 when the Cliquè brain trust hammered home, any chance they could get, about AP injury worries? You could nickname LT2 "the gimp" when it comes to the playoffs over the past two years and he's also battle injuries for most of the past two years during the regular season...the brains trust will ignore that.

How'd AP perform vs LT2 in the playoffs this year? Help me out here football wizards!

AP 66 yards, 2 TDs at halftime
LT2 25 yards, 0 TDs for the game.

Wait for it....more injury excuses from the flip flop crew!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 4, 2009, 10:07 pm

The winner of the Giants/Eagles game will go onto the Super Bowl and win it.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 4, 2009, 10:26 pm

Good wild card weekend. Mostly competitive games. I'm psyched for the Cardinals and excited that Fitzgerald played well. And the Eagles cruised to a win. I'm happy with how everything shook out.

The LDT v. AP argument is retarded and I hope everyone shuts up about it because otherwise Winnow will derail this thread along those lines until LDT is out of the playoffs. If AP scored more points than LDT in your league then he was the right pick; if LDT scored more points in your league then he was the right pick. Period.

Andy Reid's beard is awesome and I hope the Eagles keep winning so I can keep seeing it. Plus, that way the Eagles will keep winning.

Adrian Peterson was saved from a complete bust of a game by one run where he just ran 40 yards into the end zone without being touched. Without that run, he had 19 carries for 43 yards and no catches. Peterson being a nonfactor basically decided the game as Tarvaris Jackson did fucking nothing and Chester Taylor didn't do enough to make a difference.

The Eagles defense played well the whole game. The first half was a little dicey because Minnesota was doing a great job executing and converting on third downs. They weren't burning Eagles defenders or getting big plays (save one), but were doing well at taking what was available and moving the ball. In the second half, the Eagles started getting better pressure on Jackson, who responded by playing even more poorly, and the running game was even less of a factor. The offense was pretty decent. The Eagles were twice backed up inside their five in a game in which they were completely incapable of running, and both times they managed to string together a few first downs to save field position. McNabb was accurate and played well. The Eagles had two turnovers, but one (the long pick) wasn't terrible. Overall, I'm pleased. The Eagles didn't come out and just run all over the Vikings, but they played the kind of game that they'll need to play if they want to beat the Giants next week.

The Giants have a great running game which the Eagles will need to shut down to win. Shutting down Peterson and Taylor is a good sign that they'll be up to the challenge.

Game of the Weekend: San Diego / Indianapolis
Player of the Weekend: Darren Sproles, Chargers; that punter, Chargers; Ed Reed, Ravens (tie)
Team of the Weekend: Cardinals
Coach of the Weekend: Jim Johnson
Disappointments of the Weekend: Matt Ryan, Chad Pennington, Adrian Peterson

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 5, 2009, 1:46 am

Sueven wrote: Adrian Peterson was saved from a complete bust of a game by one run where he just ran 40 yards into the end zone without being touched. Without that run, he had 19 carries for 43 yards and no catches. Peterson being a nonfactor basically decided the game as Tarvaris Jackson did fucking nothing and Chester Taylor didn't do enough to make a difference.

Still dont understand the logic of taking away plays from players. Big plays are part of the game. Take away Westrook's 71 yard reception and he looked ordinary as well.

Take away one of LT2's carries that netted him a grand total of 25 yards and he had even less.

It was a good wildcard weekend. Hoping for an Eagles Cardinals matchup down the road.

If the Cardinals beat Carolina and have Philly beat NY and we have another home game for the NFC Championship game.

If the Cards and Philly win, the Cards will not have to play ever in a super cold weather stadium if they keep advancing. It would be Carolina, University of Phoenix Stadium then Tampa. Unless the south gets a super cold blast, these conditions will help the Cards.