Bowling for Columbine

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » January 23, 2003, 12:47 pm

The latest Michael Moore film. I'm not sure how long it has been out, or if it is out at all, but it definately brings up some interesting points.

Moore talks about why America has so many more murders committed with firearms than other countries. People offer various opinions...

Maybe it's because of rock music?
Well, Germany is the Goth capital of the world, but they have fewer shooting deaths.

Maybe it's because of the violence in movies?
Canada, England, France... Hell, MANY countries watch American "body count" films, yet they have fewer murders involving firearms.

Could it be the violent video games?
Many of those violent games are made in Japan, who has fewer shooting deaths.

Broken homes could be the cause?
England has many more broken homes than America, but fewer firearm deaths.

Maybe it's because of all of the guns in America?
Canada has 7 million guns in 10 million households, and their shooting deaths were so low, I had to rewind for a double-take.

Maybe it's because of the diverse culture in America? White, tan, brown, black...all living in the same communities.
Canada and many other countries are just as diverse.

Maybe America is just a historically violent country?
Like Germany? England? France? Russia? All have fewer handgun homicides.

Is it because American media has America afraid of it's own shadow? killer bee's, plague, razorblades in Hallowen candy, murder, rape, beatings, muggings, police chases, riots, WAR... All on our televisions, every day and night. Moore asks several Canadian residents if they lock their doors. All say they don't. Impossible to believe, Moore goes to several neighborhoods and walks up to people's doors...and opens them.

One Canadian said something along the lines of, "In America, they lock their doors because they are afraid of their neighbors. They are trying to keep people out. In Canada, we see locking our door as imprisoning ourselves."

There's also a section where Moore compares a speech made by the leader of Canada to a speech made by the leader of America.

I recommend checking it out for yourselves and drawing your own conclusions on the various topics. Very interesting IMO. Also talks about the Columbine shooting, and it contains footage of the Columbine massacre as well as other murders and suicides involving firearms.

-Shae

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 23, 2003, 12:54 pm

I am waiting for this to come out on DVD. I dig Michael Moore's appoach to filmaking and investigating issues. Roger & Me kicked ass

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » January 23, 2003, 3:12 pm

Shae, is this on dvd/vhs or is it in select theatres?

It sounds very interesting...i'm just hoping you didnt forward all the good parts of the movie

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » January 23, 2003, 4:30 pm

Apparently, it's at theatres now...

http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/

Drustwyn · Post by **Drustwyn** » January 24, 2003, 1:22 am

I really enjoyed this movie... The most crazy part in the whole movie to me was the Columbine footage. That was wild. I also loved the "history of our country" thing.. that was kickass.

The only thing I thought was a little bit cheesey was the ending.. (i.e. picture)

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » January 24, 2003, 10:45 am

Would be interesting if Moore has not spent a lifetime making things up, slanting numbers and wholly creating facts. Roger and Me was cute, almost entirely inaccurate and pointed the finger at the wrong villian entirely.

I lived in Flint Michigan from 1969 to 1988 and can state emphatically that the problems there were entirely a result of the UAW, the elected officials, and made up entirely by Michael Moore. Even the famous pets or food line had nothing to do with Flint, anymore than things that happen in Jersey have to do with New York ( the woman lived 48 miles from Flint, but he presented her as living in Flint). Flint has movie theatres in the city limits, and had them back then (4 to be exact). There are hundreds of examples of this. It was a nice impact film but so full of deception and lies it colors anything else he does, since he has already shown that he has no reliance on reality.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 24, 2003, 11:09 am

Kylere does bring up a good point. Although he presents his material very well, it is also very skewed at times due to his liberal nature. That is what I think at least...

A good friend of mine grew up in Flint. He called it the "Last Bastion of the Geri-Curl"

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » January 24, 2003, 12:38 pm

Wow. I had no idea that he made up stats. Guess I should research some of his numbers before recommending the film to friends/family. Kinda pisses me off that he makes films about people screwing other people, how you can't trust people, hipocrisy...and he's doing it with his films?

Argh! Stop the madness.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » January 24, 2003, 1:23 pm

Michael Moore was once attacked about his using actors in "documentaries" and skewing timelines, hiring extras in what was presented as raw footage etc.

He said, "it is dark comedy"

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 24, 2003, 6:14 pm

Reguardless of Moore's reputation, his films raise extremely important, and often overlooked issues. If you look past the sensationalism, you see very raw and often frightening facts.

As far as made up stats and such, I've read his books and can say he backs everything up with plenty of certifiable statistics. I honsetly think people just do not want to acknowldege his numbers because they are shocking at times and often against what they are lead to believe.

As far as Flint, MI goes, Roger & Me is sadly more fact than fiction. That place is the asshole of the world. Yes, I believe GM pulling out helped flush that turd of a city down the toilet.

Bowling for Columbine is a thought provoking film and deserves credit for making people think deeply about about one of our major problems here in America. I always look forward to Moore's next venture. It's sure to be controversial and give you an alternative perspective to what corporate and political america would like for you to believe.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » January 24, 2003, 8:59 pm

He doesn't twist facts around any more than the average conservative talking head like Limbaugh twists for his own ends. He doesn't make up anything outright, but obviously he is as uninterested in showing the full story as anyone else trying to make a point.

Sure Moore has an agenda and he is trying to put things into a perspective that fits that. He also has a flair for the melodramatic that jerk at a lot of people's tears.

I thought Bowling for Columbine was one of his weakest efforts however. He fails in a lot of his hypothesis as to why America has such a crazy gun culture. For instance, it must have taken him several months to find 5 Canadians that don't lock their doors at night. Especially in the cities he was in that have comparable or even higher crime rates than an equal sized American city. Locking your door at night has little to do with gun violence and more to do with overall crime rate. The city I live in has the highest per capita crime rate in the developed world, yet I do not feel unsafe because the odds of me getting shot or even assaulted are astronomically low.

The only point of his hypothesis I agreed with vehemently was how the American media is just fucking ceaseless in propagating such an overwhelming culture of fear in the US. Whenever I watch US news it is absolutely nothing but reports on crime, violence, abuse, and scare stories (FIND OUT WHY YOUR CHILD IS NO LONGER SAFE ON THE BUS!).

Frankly if I was exposed to US news every day I would probably own about fifty loaded weapons and be living in a steel enforced fortress protected by lions and africanized killer bees, and I would be taking shots at anyone that came within range. I mean sure there are news reports involving that kind of stuff in Canada and Europe, but it's not so fucking relentless in the US I don't know how you can stand it. Instead of world events you get 60 minutes of constant coverage about the latest brown guy the cops are chasing across the interstate. The pure sense of paranoia and fear the American media exudes must be overwhelming to a lot of people who decide the only way to protect themselves and their families from certain death is to start stockpiling guns.

Also, he rags on the NRA for being a bunch of heartless, evil bastards who use tragedies as launching points for their pro-death crusades and collect assault weapons to compensate for their impossibly tiny penises. You can't really fault anyone for doing that.

Unfortunately a lot of BFC is a lot of what Moore does worst.. Lots of ambushing low level employees in big corporations in order to make said corporation look badly, and lots of finger pointing at the wrong people. Sure, Charlton Heston is a fucking asshole, but he is also in his late eighties and has Alzheimers, and probably isn't the best person to ambush at their homes with pictures of little girls that were killed by firearms and ask him to explain why. He even goes after Dick Clarke for owning a restaurant where a woman worked at, who's son brought a gun to school and shot a little girl.

Micheal Moore is a really smart guy and I don't know why he ruins his excellent points by filling the cracks up with shit like that.

It's a good movie that asks a lot of good questions and makes you think about the subject, which is always a good thing.. but don't take it as the final word on the topic.

I have a link where you can download the film using bit torrent but I am not sure if I'm allowed to post it.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » January 25, 2003, 12:45 am

As a Flint native I agree with you that Flint Sucks, Fair...but he still altered timelines, hired actors, made up things entirely etc.

You actually got this a little right Kyoukan, Michael Moore is as valid a source of info as Rush Limbaugh. They are both nutcakes at opposite ends of the politcal spectrum.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » January 25, 2003, 10:20 am

The mother of that one 7 year old who shot fellow classmate was also a drug addict, he didnt mention that either(the one who had to ride a bus 2 hours to work, etc). When someone is making a political statement like he was trying to make thru this movie, they leave certain facts out if they would be detremental to their arguments.

The movie had some great points and also its fair share of bullshit, but i enjoyed it overall and i always like movies that drudge up conversation. The best movie you can go to is a movie which makes you think, imo. Whether or not you agree with the themes of the movie, you can always gain something from it if you keep an open mind