I'm all for continuing this debate ad infinitum but it's not possible that I will ever stop arguing for the quality of the Big 10 or concede in any way.
Good.
The point of the post was that every other conference has won a championship since the Big Ten. That your most recent title is more distant than the most recent title of any other major conference. And that I've had to spend the whole year hearing about how the Big Ten has THE TWO BEST basketball teams in the country, and how the Big Ten has THE TWO BEST football teams in the country-- neither of which was true obviously.
Why do you think that is? That's an actual question, btw, it's not rhetorical or something I have an answer to in my head. You feel that you hear that too much, and I suppose that most of the season rankings agree with you, how is it that the Big 10 can fool so many professional analysts and poll voters in two different sports? I don't have an answer for that.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
I think a couple things play into it. One is just coincidence: In both sports, the Big Ten was strong at the top and weak in the middle this year. This results in the top teams having somewhat overinflated records, because their in-conference competition is not as strong as it generally is, and it's not as strong as what teams in other conferences faced this year.
Part of it is due to Ohio State's megaprogram status. Five years ago, attention was focused on different programs-- in football, Miami and Oklahoma football couldn't hold a practice without receiving a fellating from the media. Now the cycle has shifted, and Ohio State, USC and Florida are getting that attention. This attention generally lasts well after the program has lost its dominance-- people didn't shut the fuck up about Miami and Oklahoma until last year, basically.
Part of it is probably based on weak non-conference schedules. I did plenty of bitching in the BCS threads about how much Big Ten football powers out of conference schedules suck. Ohio State did play Texas and Michigan did play Notre Dame (and kudos to both for playing big-name programs), but it just so happened that those two opponents turned out to be a lot crappier than it seemed when the games occurred. Basketball was similar: During the regular season, Ohio State didn't beat anybody except for Tennessee, while Wisconsin beat Pitt at home. So you have records that are overinflated due to weak scheduling out of conference and weak competition in conference. Compare to Duke, who (despite sucking) beat Air Force, Georgetown, Indiana and Gonzaga, or North Carolina, who beat Tennessee, Ohio State, Kentucky and Arizona.
Finally, bad luck: Brian Butch fucked up his arm and Wisconsin may have been a much better team with him. Michigan and Ohio State football chose the worst possible times to shit the bed. If Butch doesn't break his arm and Wisconsin makes, say, the elite eight, and either Michigan or Ohio State wins their bowl game, then the Big Ten looks a lot better.
To be fair, OSU did ride a 22 game win streak to a championship game, beating some decent teams. The Big Ten may get a bit overexposed, but I don't think the top teams (Wisconsin, UM, OSU) are overrated. You can say we choke more than any other conference, but I bet if you count championship appearances since your little sample selection, we will be right at the top or close to it.
For Winnow, while it is still unofficial, Oden is definately staying, someone with more interest in researching this fact can verify it. As you may, or may not have read, Mike Conley Jr. father started up a sports agency to rep Conley and Oden (they are childhood friends fyi). From what I hear (this is where the research comes in) it takes 13 months from inception to start signing clients and what not. Meaning that if Oden signs with Conley Sr. which is expected to happen, he can't do it until after next season. With a 7 foot 2 guy coming in (Koufus or something) who can shoot the 3 and will probably play the 4 spot, I can see us rolling right into the championship. Especially since UF is out of the picture.
ACC: 1
Big East: 0
Big Ten: 3
Big Twelve: 3
Pac Ten: 2
SEC: 0
So you're right.
And Ohio State did have a hell of a season, which they validated by beating Tennesee, Memphis, and Georgetown in the tournament. Sadly that was all that Big Ten basketball had going for it this year.
Zamtuk wrote:
For Winnow, while it is still unofficial, Oden is definately staying, someone with more interest in researching this fact can verify it. As you may, or may not have read, Mike Conley Jr. father started up a sports agency to rep Conley and Oden (they are childhood friends fyi). From what I hear (this is where the research comes in) it takes 13 months from inception to start signing clients and what not. Meaning that if Oden signs with Conley Sr. which is expected to happen, he can't do it until after next season. With a 7 foot 2 guy coming in (Koufus or something) who can shoot the 3 and will probably play the 4 spot, I can see us rolling right into the championship. Especially since UF is out of the picture.
Oden looks like he's 50 years old. He needs to get to the NBA.
Sounds like he was duped by Conley's dad. I didn't factor in that he's probably not getting much helpful advice from students at OSU where sports is all they have to live for.
If it becomes official, I'll hold up my side of the bet!
Mike Conley Sr. Making Noises that Can't Please Ohio State
April 11, 2007 3:39 PM
Roughly ten million people who work in basketball have told me that both Greg Oden and Mike Conley Jr. will be in the NBA next year. I don't know if any of them really know, because I'm not positive if anyone really knows.
But the way Mike Conley Sr. (the man who is expected to represent both players when they do reach the NBA) is talking now can't be too encouraging to college basketball fans.
ESPN's Andy Katz (Insider) quotes Conley Sr. saying he absolutely expects his son to reassess his promise to return to Ohio State.
"He realizes that he can't blindly say that he's going back to school after he had decided that a month ago," Conley Sr. said. "Things have changed and he has to consider it."
Katz reports that Conley Sr. says he is now an officially registered NBA agent, which may give Oden and Conley Jr. some extra time to make up their minds:
Conley Sr. said he anticipates being his son's and Oden's agent so if they decide to declare, they wouldn't have the pressure to sign with an agent before the June 18 withdrawal deadline.
"I anticipate them putting their name in, but not signing," Conley Sr. said.
and
Ohio State freshman point guard Mike Conley Jr. was the most consistent player for the Buckeyes this season, the star during the team's run to the national title game. With NBA scouts now talking about him as a potential top-10 pick, Conley may declare for the draft.
Ohio State always knew the possibility existed that center Greg Oden could be one-and-done, but the play of Conley down the stretch could force Ohio State to lose its two best players.
"He's got to consider it, without a doubt," said Mike Conley Sr., who added that he is now a registered agent with the NBA.
Stupid to pick Conley Sr as an agent but he's official. Oden may not be a good idea at #1 if he's not smart enough to get a real agent.
I still can't see Oden staying. He's at least the #2 pick and likely the #1 pick. You can't improve on that next year, and it's totally stupid for him to continue playing college ball.
I can absolutely understand how Zamtuk wouldn't want to believe that, I wouldn't either if he played for my team, but as far as smart business decisions go, there's no reason for him to stay in college.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
I dunno, it might be a good deal. It sounds like he's not making them sign a contract with him until the last possible day, giving them some extra time to decide. Every other agent in the world would want them signed immediately, and once you sign that contract, you cannot play college ball again.
Tim Duncan didn't have the physique and endurance of a 40 year old lifelong smoker at 18.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
Inside word around campus is that they (oden and conley) are sitting down with Matta this weekend to decide. The answer will come Monday, if what I hear is true.
Zamtuk wrote:Inside word around campus is that they (oden and conley) are sitting down with Matta this weekend to decide. The answer will come Monday, if what I hear is true.
I hope someone rolls up a few Hummers in front of them and dangles the keys. Conley Sr isn't doing his job! Matta's going to poison their minds with crap talk about the college experience etc.
Note that this does not count USC's split title in '02, as they did not win a championship game to win it.
Note that the Big Ten and the Big Twelve-- the two 'middle of the country' conferences-- are a combined 4-8. The other four major conferences-- which are largely coastal conferences-- are a combined 15-10.
Sueven wrote:The lesson: No one wants to live in the midwest.
Alert the fucking presses
Between lake effect blizzards, tornadoes, and the fat ugly chicks, I'm amazed anyone lives there. Much less athletes who can pick from sweet vacation destinations or go live in a place like Texas or Bama where they will be worshipped as living gods.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
yeah i heard on sports talk radio that conley sr. backdoored somehow to be able to sign clients right away. im also beginning to think that the hosts are retarded. we'll see about cook going right away though. im hoping he drops down to second round or doesnt even get drafted if he does go.
Is Cook any good? Maybe the Suns could draft him with their second round pick and send him to europe just to make sure OSU doesn't make it to the tournament next year!
I wanted Oden to enter the draft because he's going to give the Suns one more player to choose from at #4 if the lottery balls drop without a surprise and Atlanta gets that pick. Durant, Oden and whoever goes at #3 will leave the Suns with a bunch of good players to choose from in one of the deepest drafts in years.
The Suns have traded or sold their picks the past two years but this year, if all goes well, will have the ~4th, ~20th, and 29th picks in this years draft.
If the Suns win it all this year, Marion is probably going to be traded for financial reasons. How about #4, #20 and Marion for the #1 pick? You'd have Amare, Oden, Diaw as the front court for Phoenix with of course, Nash, Barbosa, Bell in the back court. I think the Suns would probably go for Durant in that scenario over Oden though to replace Marion on the wing and stick with small ball. The Suns may be able to do that deal for the #1 or #2 pick and be happy.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
When is the NBA lottery drawing? If it's before April 29th, I'm thinking Greg Oden might be waiting until he sees who gets the #1 pick before declaring.
Ohio State teammates Conley, Cook will test waters
Posted: Friday April 20, 2007 3:13PM; Updated: Friday April 20, 2007 3:30PM
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Greg Oden is through with school.
The 7-foot freshman said on Friday that he will leave Ohio State after leading the Buckeyes to the national championship game and enter the NBA draft where he figures to be one of the top two picks.
Freshman teammates Mike Conley Jr. and Daequan Cook also said they will make themselves available for the draft. Unlike Oden, they have opted not to hire an agent for now -- meaning they will retain the option of returning to school in the fall.
"This is a very tough decision for me," Oden said in a statement released by Ohio State. "I love OSU and love being a Buckeye, but I also have a great opportunity to take my game to the next level and compete with the best players in the world. I've discussed this with family, friends and Coach (Thad) Matta, and I feel the time is right."
All three players were key figures this past season for the Buckeyes, who went 35-4 to set a mark for victories and won the Big Ten's regular-season and tournament titles before advancing to their first national championship game since 1962 where they lost to two-time champion Florida 84-75 this month.
After getting a late start at Ohio State because of a wrist injury, Oden, 19, lived up to his billing as a two-time national player of the year, leading the Buckeyes in scoring (15.7) and rebounding (9.6) per game and topping the Big Ten in shooting percentage (.616).
His best game may have been his last one when he scored 25 points and had 12 rebounds while dominating the inside against Al Horford and Joachim Noah of Florida.
Oden had surgery on his right (shooting) wrist to reattach ligaments on June 16. He worked out with the team while wearing a cast that eventually became an elastic brace.
After missing the first seven games, he came in and -- despite shooting free throws and most of his other shots left-handed -- had an immediate impact.
Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Winnow wrote:
Zamtuk wrote:unless we win a championship, oden's not leaving yet.
I'll make you some sort of bet that he comes out even if OSU doesn't win the championship.
Can be avatar bet. Two weeks, starting on NBA draft day, I'll use an OSU avatar if Oden stays (and OSU doesn't win championshp) and you can put up an ASU Avatar if he goes (I'll provide one if you can't find one and I'll borrow Sylvus' copy of OSU's)
Zamtuk wrote:Fair enough, but let me throw out some stipulations. He won't go if we get flat out embarrassed in the tournament, I think he will go if we win the championship or make a decent enough run at it (perhaps losing by 3 in final four or championship). Aside from that he is staying.
Even with those demanding stipulations, I still win. They lost by more than three!
I Dislike Your Favorite Team wrote:The interviewer, determined to get some sort of answer from Oden asked him, "OK, but what teams did you grow up watching as a kid? Did you follow a particular team?" (Silently thinking to himself--aha! This will tell us where Oden secretly wants to play. It told us so much more...)
Oden replied, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Oh, sure. Growing up, I watched a lot of the Lakers, and the Celtics. They were just good teams, that played good basketball." Safe answer--big franchises with storied histories, doesn't mean anything, etc, etc. Except that the Celtics were never particularly good during Oden's lifetime, much less his formative years. In fact, they sucked the vast majority of the years that Oden has been alive. Let's delve, shall we?
Greg was born in January of 1988, so the first playoffs he would have been alive for were the 87-88 playoffs. Boston lost in the Conference Finals to Detroit. If he were a human baby, Greg Oden would not remember that. If he were born a 36 year old man, he probably would.
During his human formative years, when one goes and decides to be a fan of a team (I'm calling that ages 7-12) Boston was one of the worst teams, if not the worst, in the country. During that stretch, seasons of 95-96 to 00-01, the Celtics won an average of 29 games. The Celtics had one good year, during the 2001-02 season (49 wins!), and have steadily slid back into craptacular.
So, when, I ask you, WHEN was 18 year old Greg Oden a fan of the Celtics? C'mon, Oden, remember, we're pretending you aren't in your late 30's, dammit. Maybe Greg is a time-traveler?
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
HILLIARD, Ohio -- A high school student who tricked football fans from a crosstown rival into holding up signs that together spelled out, "We Suck," was suspended and banned temporarily from extracurricular activities for the prank, according to the school's principal.
I was sad that you didn't reply when I posted that. Minutes of intarweb searchings went into that present!
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
I can't wait to hear all the calls for your coach to be fired, even if you somehow come back. ESPN says no ranked team has lost to a team from a lower division. EVER.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
I can't wait to hear all the calls for your coach to be fired, even if you somehow come back. ESPN says no ranked team has lost to a team from a lower division. EVER.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
The shots of the Michigan fans in the stands after the loss are classic!
"You mean our season's over on September 1st?"
lol
Michigan's Coach should have been fired several seasons ago. He doesn't have to worry about losing to OSU, he can't even beat a 1-AA team at home.
Too funny. I saw the score on ESPN's website and was looking for a direction (Eastern, Northern, etc) before the word Michigan...or to see if it was a Tech school or something that lost to a 1-AA team.
Appalachian State University...otherwise known as the little A-S-U!
ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Bo and Woody will play a role in Saturday's showdown between Michigan and Ohio State.
A commemorative coin featuring legendary Wolverines coach Bo Schembechler and iconic Ohio State coach Woody Hayes will be used in the pregame coin flip at Michigan Stadium.
Schembechler died a day before Ohio State beat Michigan in last year's game in Columbus, Ohio. Hayes died in 1987.
The coin, which is being produced by a company owned by former Michigan quarterback John Wangler, offers a unique way to honor the anniversary of Schembechler's death, Wangler said.
The former Wolverines QB said the rivalry was a great one before Schembechler and Hayes walked the sidelines, "but they were the ones who really took it to the next level. They put their stamp on it, and they were the ones who made it special," he told The Ann Arbor News.
nah, I actually had the opportunity to go this year for free, but I turned it down. Mainly because of my fear of travelling across state lines, only to lose, then having to come back.
Zamtuk wrote:Mainly because of my fear of travelling across state lines, only to lose, then having to come back.
Pussy! I've been in Columbus the last 3 times we've played down there. In fact, it's my fault that we've dropped those 3 games, I'm bad luck when I travel to away games.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
That's odd, there's a "spotlight" section of ESPN's college football page that has a heading titled "The Rivalry", and I don't see any mention of any Sun Devils or Wildcats. Someone should probably email the editor of ESPN.com.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
