Raid size from 40 to 25 players.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 22, 2006, 2:29 pm

I'd read somewhere that blizzard is chopping raid size down to 25 players from 40 with the coming expansion yet I've seen no topic about this here.

Seems to me that this will make things easier to organise and less of a logistical nightmare but will really split some of the larger guilds apart some.

After waiting in the queue, you now have to wait for one of the precious 25 raid spots to open. I predict lots more people wiating around Org/Ironforge.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 22, 2006, 2:37 pm

It's going to split guild into pieces. All the cliques will restart thier own 25 man raid groups. Maybe a guild will be allowed multiple Instances running at the same time? I don't know, but it's a guild leader's nightmare.

I don't think it will be too bad, but only if they never release another 40 man encounter in this game. Also, 40 man raids like MC/AQ40/BWL/Naxx better not be required gear progression for the 25 man raids that will be in the expansion. Requiring 40 people to end up raiding with only 25 would be beyond fucking retarded.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 22, 2006, 2:42 pm

I think they said they were going to retune those instances to be 25 player only as well but I'm really not sure about that one.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » August 22, 2006, 2:45 pm

Doubt MC will be changed at all. Gaining 10 levels will make MC much easier now, even if its only a 25 person limit.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 22, 2006, 3:34 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:It's going to split guild into pieces. All the cliques will restart thier own 25 man raid groups. Maybe a guild will be allowed multiple Instances running at the same time? I don't know, but it's a guild leader's nightmare.

Only for current raid guilds. There are a shitload more guild that this benefits, in that we will no longer be relegated to the second tier instances by virtue of our guild size.

I don't think it will be too bad, but only if they never release another 40 man encounter in this game. Also, 40 man raids like MC/AQ40/BWL/Naxx better not be required gear progression for the 25 man raids that will be in the expansion. Requiring 40 people to end up raiding with only 25 would be beyond fucking retarded.

They've already announced that the current raid gear will become obsolete in the expansion. I'm sure it will confer advantages when people are doing the mid-60 instances, but once you hit the cap, the new shit will blow away your BWL gear.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 22, 2006, 3:57 pm

25 man raids will ultimately be a healthy thing for WoW, but it will be rough in the short-term. Guilds are being forced to downsize and obviously thats gonna hurt, but in the end they will be more competitive. Most guilds have a very hard time with recruiting.. in general theres always an extremely high turnover rate... people come and go from guilds constantly. So yeah.. it sucks for guilds that have 40 experts that play 24/7 with perpetual 100% attendance, both of them.. the rest of us will benefit from slicing off that layer of fat.

I do agree that if they make 25 man end-game instances, that all 40 man isntances must be abolished and retuned for 25.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 22, 2006, 4:25 pm

masteen wrote:There are a shitload more guild that this benefits, in that we will no longer be relegated to the second tier instances by virtue of our guild size.

Size and having a life outside of the game

This would suck for a current successful high end raid guild that has a low turnover, assuming one exists. Dunno, don't pay much attention to them. From what I've seen in the past attrition will take care of this all by itself after a short while. The dedicated core will remain, the transient d00ds will move on to other things sooner.

For the family guilds it's a great move.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 22, 2006, 5:25 pm

Well, it's still gonna take a guild that has 2 three-hour raids a week longer to progress through Expansion_Instance_001 than a guild that does 5 four-hour ones. But still a much better situation than not being able to do it at all.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 22, 2006, 5:29 pm

Guilds are already transient pieces of crap for the most part that can't retain members for very long. The average attitude/personality of players in the game is the biggest cause of this I think, but also the ease of the game and constant opening of new servers helps add to it. I was guilty of playing new servers tho.

Chopping it to 25 is all good in my book. There's the fact that relying on 24 other people and managing 24 other people is much easier, also having 24 other people show up period is easier. There will be some friction and divisions (if this is true, I still find it too good to be so), but things will settle out eventually.

I still think back to 70 person raids in EQ and want to tear my own eyelids off.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 22, 2006, 5:55 pm

wow, reverting back to what the vision was for raids in wow back before the original dev team quit and was replaced by uberguild retards. amazing! it is almost like they knew what they were doing!

miir · Post by **miir** » August 22, 2006, 6:09 pm

Other games have raid content for 12, 18 and 24 player raids.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 22, 2006, 6:20 pm

Oh? What other games would that be?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 22, 2006, 6:40 pm

EQ 1 did.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » August 22, 2006, 6:57 pm

This change is perfect for my guild. We are currently in a raiding alliance...we will gain the ability to do things on our own.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 22, 2006, 7:55 pm

Yeah, it would have saved a lot of drama that took place a couple months ago in mine. Basically many of the "raiders" created their own guild and left three or four skeletons of guilds behind.

laneela · Post by **laneela** » August 22, 2006, 8:02 pm

I might consider starting to play again.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 22, 2006, 10:46 pm

Hey its ldon all over again!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 22, 2006, 11:16 pm

wtf are they doing? How can anything be done without at least 60?

I remember one CT strategy where we'd pack into a monster's lair so tight that the mob couldn't move and then we'd send in the gnomes to gnaw off its feet. We then backed off a bit for the kill but those with no range attacks all cybered like mad to maintain the lag, slowing the mob in the process.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 23, 2006, 1:25 am

Winnow wrote:wtf are they doing? How can anything be done without at least 60?

I remember one CT strategy where we'd pack into a monster's lair so tight that the mob couldn't move and then we'd send in the gnomes to gnaw off its feet. We then backed off a bit for the kill but those with no range attacks all cybered like mad to maintain the lag, slowing the mob in the process.

yeah, I hated going to Karnor's Castle when CT was there.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 23, 2006, 5:22 am

Xyun wrote:
Winnow wrote:wtf are they doing? How can anything be done without at least 60?

I remember one CT strategy where we'd pack into a monster's lair so tight that the mob couldn't move and then we'd send in the gnomes to gnaw off its feet. We then backed off a bit for the kill but those with no range attacks all cybered like mad to maintain the lag, slowing the mob in the process.
yeah, I hated going to Karnor's Castle when CT was there.

I was going to say frenzied ghoul spawn earlier but got distracted by something shiny.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 23, 2006, 10:10 am

As mentioned above I believe that this is a good thing. Blizz knows where their bread is buttered and that is with the 80% of the population that aren't able to raid those 40 person zones. I am looking forward to the expansion but I am not sure if I want to wait another year for it to come out. This last patch really had some problems that really shouldn't have happened. I am not going to say what they are or should be capable of doing but I do know that the expectation of the masses is that they should be able to do much better if not near flawless and seemless patches.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » August 23, 2006, 5:14 pm

Winnow wrote:wtf are they doing? How can anything be done without at least 60?

I remember one CT strategy where we'd pack into a monster's lair so tight that the mob couldn't move and then we'd send in the gnomes to gnaw off its feet. We then backed off a bit for the kill but those with no range attacks all cybered like mad to maintain the lag, slowing the mob in the process.

from a card-carrying CT member...perfect!!!

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 23, 2006, 6:32 pm

Winnow wrote:wtf are they doing? How can anything be done without at least 60?

I remember one CT strategy where we'd pack into a monster's lair so tight that the mob couldn't move and then we'd send in the gnomes to gnaw off its feet. We then backed off a bit for the kill but those with no range attacks all cybered like mad to maintain the lag, slowing the mob in the process.

Sounds like Kraptos' strat on their first Fennin kill.

Oh yeah! Bragging rights that day!

Trias · Post by **Trias** » August 23, 2006, 7:19 pm

good to see Kratos still makes Sargeras shoot his nut after all of this time.

anyways...i raid lead and am involved in leading my guild through 40 man content up to C'thun and into naxx for a while now. Though the 25 man raid idea sounds ok and all, i'm really not looking forward to entire guild restructuring. We aren't going into panic mode like a number of guilds are over the announcement; we will just wait till the expack comes and decide what to do from there. I wish they had at least one 40 man endgame raid zone though. AQ20 raids don't seem epic and i don't see how adding 5 more people will make that feeling be there.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 23, 2006, 8:12 pm

Trias wrote:good to see Kratos still makes Sargeras shoot his nut after all of this time.

I just get nostalgic at times. You never figured out why Xegony was "bugged" did ya?

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 24, 2006, 8:55 am

AQ20 raids don't seem epic and i don't see how adding 5 more people will make that feeling be there.

Maybe not for you because you have advanced pretty far past that but for guilds like mine where we only just recently took down the first boss, it is rather exciting. I agree that these changes are going to shaft the top end raiding guilds. They are in the minority overall though sadly enough. I believe that many of the folks who played EQ have since graduated high school/college and are working on their careers and making families so there aren't as many who have the time to raid like they used to. Doesn't mean that they wouldn't like to, just different priorities have developed. I think WoW recognizes this and that is why they are changing things up.