The PS3 is a Mess

General discussion about other games, links to reviews, demos, etc - let us know about whats up and coming

Moderators: Funkmasterr, noel

User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

The PS3 is a Mess

Post by Winnow »

...but you will still buy it because it's...SONY and they made last generation's best selling console! Of course, it's not a solid source!

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171
PS3 hardware slow and broken

In words and pictures


By Charlie Demerjian in Taipei: Monday 05 June 2006, 03:35

AFTER BREAKING THE news to me about PS3 RSX speeds earlier on the flight to Japan, my row-mate said 'if you think that's interesting, wait till you see this. Cell is hurting, badly'.
For those of you that believe in religions with karmic tendencies, scoops like this meant one of two things, the wings of the plane are about to fall off and I am going to die in a fiery ball, or worse yet, the movie selection will be worrisome. Cell memory access appears to be broken, RSX has half the triangle setup rate of the ATI chip in XBox360, and the true horror, Big Momma's House 2 and a Queen Latifa movie.

With the movie selection still making my brain throb from the glances I caught, I furiously took notes on what the source was saying. He started out saying that the RSX can only write about half as much vertex data as it can fetch, not an ideal situation by any stretch, but survivable.

Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart.

Half the triangle setup capability in the PS3, could things get worse? Yes, far far worse, how about another disparity of three orders of magnitude? No, I am not joking, looking at Sony's own figures, Cell appears to be pretty badly broken.

For main memory, it looks like Cell has about 25GBps of main memory bandwidth, and RSX is about 15-20GBps. Achievable bandwidth is between about two thirds of that and nearly 100%, clearly the elves in the caves surrounding Rambus central did something right with XDR. That is the happy news.

For local memory, the measured vs theoretical bandwidth is missing, I wonder why? RSX is at a solid 22.4GBps for both read and write, good job there green team. Then comes the blue team with Cell. Local memory write is about 4GBps, 40% of the next slowest bandwidth there. Then comes the bomb from hell, the Cell local memory read bandwidth is a stunning 16MBps, note that is a capital M to connote Mega vs a capital G to connote Giga. This is a three order of magnitude oopsie, and it is an oopsie, as Sony put it "(no, this isn't a typo...)".

If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes Cell local memory just about useless. That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless. This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems. Basically, if this Sony presentation to PS3 devs shown to us is correct, it looks like PS3 will be hobbled in a serious way.

The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory, but write to main memory with RSX(tm) and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers. This is very very bad. The number of times the presentation goes on to say that it is correct, and the lack of anything like "this will be fixed by production steppings, so take measures X, Y and Z" say to me that it is not a fixable snafu. Remember at E3 when I said that the PS3 demos there were object sparse? Any guesses why?

Someone screwed up so badly it looks like it will relegate the console to second place behind the 360. All the devs I talked to were lukewarm on the 360 architecture but universally negative on the PS3. Revelations like this go a long way to explain why you keep hearing about simmering problems from the Sony devs.

You end up with a console with half the triangle setup rate of the 360, a crippled CPU that is a bitch to program, and tools that are atrocious compared to the 360. To make matters worse, you have an arrogant set of execs telling us that twice the price is worth it for half the power, a year late. If it isn't already too late, Sony had better do something about this recto-cranial inversion or it may very well sink the console.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

great article winnow. oh hey I heard from a guy on a plane to JAPAN that microsoft just bought $ony for like a dollar because they are all gay faggots lolol. I am going to write an article about it on the internets.

yes I'm sure sony's top R&D and engineers failed to notice that.

if the PS3 is so underpowered, then why is konani and SCEI already making games that make xbox 1.5 look like cell phone games?
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

kyoukan wrote: if the PS3 is so underpowered, then why is konani and SCEI already making games that make xbox 1.5 look like cell phone games?
Vaporware. Nice rendered movies though.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Yeah, Hideo Kojima is infamous for his vaporware, you fucking invalid.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

It's vaporware and everyone was bored to tears with the PS3 at E3 but you'll still buy it based on a game that will only come out in Japan in 2010.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

you were at E3 were you? oh no that's right you weren't, and you get all your hot hot gaming news from drooling xbox fanboy dot com.
User avatar
Tegellan
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1278
Joined: July 5, 2002, 8:41 am
Gender: Male
Location: DK
Contact:

Post by Tegellan »

Why all the hostility Kyo? Winnow posted an article and mentioned it isn't reputable, no reason to get your panties all in a bunch about it, you disagree with it, we get it!
Fortune favors the brave!
User avatar
Dregor Thule
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5994
Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Xathlak
PSN ID: dregor77
Location: Oakville, Ontario

Post by Dregor Thule »

Tegellan wrote:Why all the hostility Kyo? Winnow posted an article and mentioned it isn't reputable, no reason to get your panties all in a bunch about it, you disagree with it, we get it!
Hi, are you new to VV?
Image
vn_Tanc
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2398
Joined: July 12, 2002, 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Post by vn_Tanc »

The article is caused from a glimpse of some poorly worded/badly translated tech specs.

What it's actually referring to is the fact that the Cell can't access video RAM directly. Just like how many many other machines work, in fact.
A man with a fork
In a world of soup
Image
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Sony's got way too much riding on this machine to fuck up in such obvious fashion.

Expecting a flawless first batch of PS3's if a pipedream however.

I expect this machine to have it's share of problems very much like the 360 had. The question is will Sony be willing to accomodate customers with problematic systems as willingly as Microsoft has. (ie extending the default warranty from 90 days to 6 months on all new 360's. free repairs or console replacements if the unit is indeed fucked etc etc).

I'm really looking forward to seeing the news come Nov/Dec 06.
User avatar
Aslanna
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 12384
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm

Post by Aslanna »

Wow the 360 default warranty was really 90 days? That's pretty shitty for a piece of modern day equipment. One year should be the minimum.
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?

--
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

PS2 warranty is also 90 days.
http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/W ... s#P27_4907
Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) warrants to the original purchaser that this product (hardware, game discs and accessories) shall be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of purchase (the "Warranty Period").

PSP - 1 year
http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/Warranties#psp
Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) warrants to the original purchaser that each of the constituent products of this PSP system shall be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of one (1) year from the date of purchase (the "Warranty Period").

Nintendo - 12 months all systems
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/manual ... tyinfo.jsp
Nintendo systems carry a twelve-month warranty, which is one of the longest standard warranties in the video game industry. Games and accessories sold separately carry a three month warranty. The warranty covers any manufacturing or workmanship defects and these will be repaired at no charge.
Microsoft offers a 6 month warranty out of the box with the option of extending that by 2 years with a 50-55$ service contract.

I've looked up the info on MS's website and their PDF still says 90days warranty however if you call the 1-800-4myxbox, any of the folks there tell you it's 6 months and setup repairs as such.
User avatar
Syenye
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 641
Joined: September 17, 2004, 10:08 am
Gender: Female
XBL Gamertag: asian tempest

Post by Syenye »

at e3, the lines to see the wii wrapped around nintendo's entire booth. we headed straight for the wii when the doors opened, and waited about an hour and a half to get in. after that, it was lines ranging from 3-6 people deep to play the demos, which due to poor planning, took about 15 minutes each. the longest line i saw to play the ps3 was maybe 4 people deep.

i heard that ebgames/gamestop will most likely not be doing preorders for the ps3, since they couldn't fill all of the 360 preorders.
User avatar
Dal-KoE
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 62
Joined: December 9, 2003, 4:34 pm
Contact:

Post by Dal-KoE »

Couple of articles about Blu-Ray...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/tc_ ... discs_dc_1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/tc_ ... luray_dc_1

So whats the deal with this format...?
_____________________________
Dalaniel - Level 70 Warrior
Keepers of the Elements - Veeshan/Luclin
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Dal-KoE wrote:Couple of articles about Blu-Ray...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/tc_ ... discs_dc_1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/tc_ ... luray_dc_1

So whats the deal with this format...?
Let the early adopters take a chance on either one while companies decide which format they will support. I for one am not gonna spend my money ($500-$100) on a high capacity media player with a chance that it might be obsolete in 18-24 months. DVD is good enough for me for the next year or two.

My prediction is that Blu-Ray will eventually win.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

So while Sony scrambles to make a player with half the power of the 360 that's twice as hard to program, here's the latest 360 Dashboard update's improvments:
Microsoft adds 125 new software features to XBox360

Posted by Stuart Miles

06 June 2006 - Microsoft has updated it operating system, or dashboard, for its next generation console, the Xbox360. The free upgrade which can be downloaded to the console via the internet fixes a number of issues, as well as adding over 125 new features for gamers to enjoy.

Highlights include the ability to download demos, skins and other content in the background while accessing other information as well as giving gamers the chance to boot directly to the dashboard interface rather than having to load a game first.

However while the update does include some improved support for older Xbox games, Microsoft has yet to announce further titles that it will support on the new console.

In a recent interview with gaming magazine Kikizo during E3 Microsoft’s vice-president of entertainment business and entertainment and devices division Peter Moore said:

"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing ... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible. More are coming, but at some point, you just go, there's enough, let's move on, or people aren't as worried about a game being backwards compatible - and I like to think we've upheld our end of the bargain in making at least two or maybe three hundred games backwards [compatible]."

Meanwhile Sony is reportedly putting the PS2 hardware into the PS3 to ensure that gamers will still be able to play games from the older console.

NEW FEATURES IN FULL

- “Download manager” - Marketplace items now download in the background, queue up to six pieces of content
- DVD bookmark support will remember the film’s timing and location when resuming viewing
- Fast-forward and rewind now offered at 2x -16x for any videos saved to hard drive
- “Boot to Dashboard” setting will bypass the loading of any disc in the drive and open directly to Dashboard during power-on
- Begin slideshows from any photo
- Music player saves “shuffle” setting
- Much player save “repeat” setting
- Music player now displays which file is currently playing in the playlist
- Music volume level persists between game / reboots
- 8 new locales added (Chile, Brazil, India, South Africa, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia)
- Separate settings now offered for Game and User volume controls
- Themes can now be set from the “System” blade on the Dashboard
- User-selected music continues play when switching from Dashboard to game or game to Dashboard
- “All Arcade Games” added as a selection in the Xbox Live Arcade area
- Personal gamer pictures allowed as Gamertiles – displayed only to those on your Friends List
- Added support to disable sound effects when navigating Dashboard
- Instantaneous “Change Theme” option added upon downloading new Dashboard themes
- Preserve folder structure of source when viewing photos
- A / B labels now provided to identify memory units in Dashboard
- Online status set to “Away” when screensaver becomes active

SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS

DVD Player

- Improved audio/video sync after extended pauses
- Improved visual quality
- DVD player outputs at native resolution over VGA connection
- Improved playback smoothness
- Improved fast-forward and rewind smoothness
- DVD play continues to attempt to read a disc after “disc read” error
- DVD play à Pause à Play jitter / out of synch issues improved
- DVD play à Slow Play à Play jitter / out of synch issues improved
- Repaired issues with missing menu selection icon from DVD disc menu for certain films
- Improved Xbox 360 Guide efficiency during certain films
- Repaired playback stutter during certain films

Music Player

- Player now populates music data (Title, Artist, etc.) when no track information is available
- User music is now pauses, instead of stopping, when games override user-selected background music
- Selecting an artist’s album no longer displays albums for all artists
- Improved performance when retrieving playlists from a Windows Media connection
- List music tracks in track-order when viewing albums by specific artist
- Unified music controls for music player in Dashboard and pop-up Guide
- Improved playback for Mono AAC-encoded files
- Improved connection timing between console and CD database over Internet
- Player no longer allows hard-drive selection when no hard-drive is connected
- Removed handling of MTP/USB devices when playing music from them more robust
- Improved error codes / messaging associated with unplayable content

Localization Improvements

- Fixed partially truncated strings in Portuguese, Spanish and Italian
- Korean clock / date format corrected after initial set-up
- Fixed system hang when changing the language of the console immediately after signing out
- Korean virtual keyboard “down” navigation now works for lower-right button
- Korean virtual keyboard caps disabled for input mode
- Fixed overlapping characters for pre-paid Gold membership card (Japanese localization)
- Removed extra spaces in several translated words (French localization)
- PC name displayed properly when containing Japanese characters
- Support single apostrophe character for Japanese virtual keyboard

Memory Area Improvements

- Streamlined selection – no profile selection required
- Improved overall performance, allowing quicker access to content
- Improved content views including name, file type, size, profile owner and location
- Faster identification of file types and fewer steps for actions such as copy, move, delete, etc.
- Capacity (or percentage-full) of storage device now consistent between select-a-device and storage scenes
- Device selection now shown on each screen to improve usability

Miscellaneous System Improvements

- Time elapsed now displayed when playing music files
- Enhanced categorization of media library
- Accelerated scrolling of large music lists
- New “shuffle” icon
- Repeat / Shuffle icon now operates as toggle button
- Default button for manual IP address is now “A” instead of “Done”
- Hidden and system folders are no longer displayed from MTP / mass storage devices
- Difficulty levels for gamer profiles ordered correctly
- Added additional line and word-wrap to “Publisher” in video area
- Shuffle / Random no longer skips last image in list when viewing photos
- Improved handling of Friend Requests between Gamertags that have changed names
- No longer asked “Exist to Dash?” when switching between areas in the Dashboard
- New error messages for when Windows Live ID requires password change
- Unlocked Achievements now displayed first in Game Summary page
- Selecting an Achievement now shows the specific Achievement details
- Full date now displayed for “Member Since” and “Next Bill Date” tabs on Membership scene
- Updated messaging for deleting arcade games purchased by different profiles
- No longer launch music CD in disc-tray when moving from Live sign-up to Dashboard or Network Troubleshooter
- Improved voice quality when connected through wired gamepad
- Show “Last Played Game” selection in Xbox Live Arcade first before enumerating all games (when Arcade game was last game played)
- Improved performance of picture enumeration from iPods formatted for Mac
- Adopt latest updates to Cero-based ratings for Family Settings
- Show videos downloaded from Marketplace in the Video area of the Media blade
- Improved usability around “Play Now” when downloading demos, trailers and videos
- Added support for South Africa-specific Family Settings
- Updated support for Japanese game ratings
- Video area changed to include game trailers and entertainment videos
- Improved robustness of Gamerscore when doing account recoveries
- Improved messaging around handling corrupt or non-fully recovered profiles
- Improved download performance for popular content being downloaded through Marketplace
- Total USB keyboard support
- Testing Live connection while streaming music from PC works correctly
- Next item / Focus sound not played when scrolling past the bottom of the video list
- Handle profiles on memory units inserted into system while enumerating profiles from other storage locations
- Warning / Alert icons now show as part of deleting items in Memory area
- Repeat rate for remote control matches game controller repeat rate
- “A” button disabled when in a list with no items available
- Wireless battery level added to mini-pop-up guide over backward-compatible games
- Pop-up guide / Dashboard now supports USB keyboard
- Console no longer enters “charge” mode when shutdown and the battery has been removed from wireless controller
- System no longer waits indefinitely when attempting to contact Windows Media Connect service on XP PC
- Improved Marketplace storage device selector
- Correctly set focus on selected item when back button pressed on “select a game” scene
- Notify users when multiple wireless SSIDS with identical names are within reach
- Provide Gold membership information when trying to join a session or accepting game invites with Silver accounts
- New text to highlight the ability to clear the passcode for Live account signing
- Photo slideshow no longer resumes when pressing “previous” or “next” from paused state
- Improved handling of corrupt profiles when deleting them
- No longer turn off wireless gamepads after system update reboot
- More robust handling of initial setup experience for memory unit users
- Improved handling of backward-compatible update experience, reboot back into Xbox v1 environment instead of Dashboard
- Improved handling for "block communications" from other players
- Improved keypress sounds when using USB keyboard
- Improved usability and performance of content enumeration for storage devices
- Show visual location for where Xbox Live Arcade games reside
- Improved user messaging when overwriting content while copying
- Improved consistency of messaging between "sign out" and "switch profile"
- Updated troubleshooter text for connection to Windows PC's joined to domain
- Better support for Xbox360 game disc recognition
- Improved initial setup text messaging
- Improved overall error message terminology
- Game updates downloaded to memory unit no longer show "please reinsert" notification when memory unit removed
- More robust support for handling game deletes from memory unit and simultaneously removing memory unit
- Improved system performance between console and affiliated Windows Media Connect PC
User avatar
Siji
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4040
Joined: November 11, 2002, 5:58 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: mAcK 624
PSN ID: mAcK_624
Wii Friend Code: 7304853446448491
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Contact:

Post by Siji »

It's usually a safe bet to buy whatever Winnow repeatedly says not to.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

Don't buy Cyanide capsules and swallow them.





Don't buy Cyanide capsules and swallow them.
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Dal-KoE wrote:Couple of articles about Blu-Ray...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/tc_ ... discs_dc_1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/tc_ ... luray_dc_1

So whats the deal with this format...?
More space on the disk(30 on dual-layer hd-dvd vs 50 on dual-layer Blu-Ray), however apparently Blu-Ray disks are much more costly to manufacture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD
User avatar
Siji
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4040
Joined: November 11, 2002, 5:58 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: mAcK 624
PSN ID: mAcK_624
Wii Friend Code: 7304853446448491
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Contact:

Post by Siji »

Animalor wrote:More space on the disk(30 on dual-layer hd-dvd vs 50 on dual-layer Blu-Ray), however apparently Blu-Ray disks are much more costly to manufacture.
Sounds like the arguments you used to hear about CD vs DVD.
cadalano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1673
Joined: July 16, 2004, 11:02 am
Location: Royal Palm Beach, FL

Post by cadalano »

we had a whole thread on it somewhere. HD-DVD is the better format functionally, but Bluray is probably going to win out because of marketing
I TOLD YOU ID SHOOT! BUT YOU DIDNT BELIEVE ME! WHY DIDNT YOU BELIEVE ME?
User avatar
Clatis
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 634
Joined: July 6, 2002, 6:47 am
Location: NC
Contact:

Post by Clatis »

bluray just sounds sweeter, yet I'm going to have to say no to the 360 and the ps3, I'm going Wii
Clatis Shizam/Fogdog Deeznutz -rocking no longer

When I leave come togetha like butt cheeks
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

More on PS3 not being ready yet with one million+ units still to be made by November.

The pricing info in the last paragraph is interesting.
Sony PlayStation 3 Hardware May Not Be Finalized – Sources.

Developers Use Personal Computers to Show PS3 Advantages

Category: Multimedia

by Anton Shilov

[ 06/06/2006 | 09:49 AM ]


A source within the industry said that the PlayStation 3 hardware might not be finalized as of early May, as at least some game developers who showcased their Sony PlayStation 3 (PS3) titles during the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) exhibition used typical personal computers (PCs) to do it.

According to the information provided by sources familiar with the matter, game developers used high-performance PCs to showcase what the PlayStation 3 game consoles will be able to deliver to gamers. At least some of the game developers masked personal computers inside the showcase stands and put a PS3 case so that attendees would believe that they see the real working game consoles and the real games. However, no attendees could actually touch the consoles, or to play the PlayStation 3 games during the exhibition.

The game developers who did not run their demos on the pre-release Sony PlayStation 3 hardware, used high-performance personal computers, such as those featuring high-speed Nvidia GeForce 7900 graphics cards in SLI mode or even ATI’s Radeon X1900 in CrossFire mode. While neither ATI, nor Nvidia would confirm such information, the sources claimed that at least some game developers used PC hardware to demonstrate the PS3 demos.

Given that nowadays game developers usually create games for multiple platforms, including PCs and game consoles from Microsoft and Sony, technically software makers may demonstrate their products using different hardware. Programmers – including John Carmack of id Software – said in the past that creating games for the PS3 would not be a trivial task..

Sony PlayStation 3 console is based on the Cell processor developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba, the RSX graphics chip by Nvidia Corp. and will be equipped with Blu-ray optical disk drive. According to Merrill Lynch research company, the most expensive component of the PlayStation 3 will be its Blu-ray disk drive, which will initially cost $350. The second most expensive part of the gaming machine will be the Cell processor which will cost Sony “at least” $230 per unit to make. Nvidia’s RSX graphics processor will cost $70, while for 256MB of XDR memory as well as 256MB of GDDR3 memory Sony will have to pay $50, believes Merrily Lynch. In total, the price may reach $900 just to manufacture one PlayStation 3 console. The PS3 game consoles will cost $499 or $599 depending on the system configuration.
User avatar
Aslanna
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 12384
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm

Post by Aslanna »

Hell, even dual-layer DVD media is too expensive and it's been around, what, 3 years or something? At least two years. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will have to do much better for me to even bother with it anytime soon. Sure 25-50GB is nice but I don't want to pay $20-$60 a disc either. It'd have to go at least of half that before I switched from DVDs.


http://www.dvdcreation.com/articles/vie ... p?id=44056

TDKwas first to market last month when it began shipping single-layer recordable 25GB BD-R and rewriteable BD-RE blank discs, setting the retail pricing bar at $19.99 for BR and $24.99 for BRE. The discs are bare, cartridge-free media.
...
"Both companies have played key roles in the development and historic launch of Blu-ray," said Bruce Youmans, marketing VP at TDK.

The company is planning a subsequent rollout of dual-layer 50GB BD-R and BD-RE media later this year. The discs will retail for $47.99 and $59.99, respectively.
...
For its part, Panasonic is looking to raise consumer awareness of the new high-definition format, citing http://www.blu-raydisc.com as a good technical resource for those interested in the format's strengths and in products still to come.

The company is stressing the cross-platform benefits of the format, projecting out a household where high-definition TV broadcast signals are recorded by a BD player/recorder deck and ripped to BD media for long-term storage, while video captured by the household's BD camcorder can be downloaded to a BD-capable computer where it can be edited, recorded on a BD disc and played back on the BD home-theater system in the living room.

The company also cited a June release for its double-layer 50GB media. The higher capacity discs will retail for $49.99 (write-once) and $69.99 (rewriteable).

Memorex plans a June ship date for its BD-R and BD-RE blank media. The 25GB discs will be packaged as singles, with jewel cases, in hang-tab packaging, and carry $19.99 and $29.99 price tags, respectively.

Memorex anticipates shipping it first HD DVD-R discs in July and HD DVD-RW discs in August. The discs will be priced comparatively to the company's BD offerings.

Other companies with writeable Blu-ray and HD DVD media on the way include Verbatim, Imation and Fujifilm.
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?

--
User avatar
Skogen
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1972
Joined: November 18, 2002, 6:48 pm
Location: Claremont, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Skogen »

I'm personally going to ignore all this fucking noise and see where the chips fall in one years time. I've heard a lot of bad shit about the PS3, and I do believe there is some creedence to it...but hearing a bunch of shit from some dude you sat next to on a plane & taking it for the gospel is a stretch, to say the least.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

They need to get those prices down from 1.00+/GB to about .25/GB

Hard Drives sell for about .33/GB and are getting cheaper monthly.

A 160GB HD costs less than one 50GB Blu Ray rewriteable disk.
*~*stragi*~*
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3871
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: kimj0ngil
Location: Ahwatukee, Arizona
Contact:

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

that article has already been debunked and don't goto that shithole website for anything idustry related as easily over half of the shit written on that crap pile is made up or just completely wrong.
User avatar
Aslanna
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 12384
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm

Post by Aslanna »

So.. how about you know.. posting a link or something to the debunkedness?
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?

--
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Winnow wrote:So while Sony scrambles to make a player with half the power of the 360 that's twice as hard to program, here's the latest 360 Dashboard update's improvments:
It's also ten times as expensive and a billion times gayer, right?

Jesus you're a loser. PS2 was hard to program for and the xbox was basically a PC with consistant specs. Guess which one was more successful?
User avatar
Canelek
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9380
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:23 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Canelek
Location: Portland, OR

Post by Canelek »

360 works fine for me. If PS3 is better whenever it comes out, I ain't going to lose any sleep over it. Not like I have any stock in any of those cocksuckers.

Far as the new format war...well, I figure that will work itself out. If I had a 1080p television, then I suppose I would pick a side for now.

My disputes are with the game designers, not the platform. Kinda sucks to get like 4 good titles out of 30 when the rest are mediocre at best.
en kærlighed småkager
User avatar
Zaelath
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4621
Joined: April 11, 2003, 5:53 am
Location: Canberra

Post by Zaelath »

kyoukan wrote:
Winnow wrote:So while Sony scrambles to make a player with half the power of the 360 that's twice as hard to program, here's the latest 360 Dashboard update's improvments:
It's also ten times as expensive and a billion times gayer, right?

Jesus you're a loser. PS2 was hard to program for and the xbox was basically a PC with consistant specs. Guess which one was more successful?
That last at least is undeniably correct; the PS2 is a dog. Very few people have ever been able to code PS1 or PS2 properly, in fact, Square are the only ones that come to mind.

Personally, I think the controller has been Sony's strength in their last two consoles. Look at USB controllers for PC's, you have the flexibility with a PC to use any controller you want really, but everyone makes PS2 knock offs because that's what people want.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

kyoukan wrote:
Winnow wrote:So while Sony scrambles to make a player with half the power of the 360 that's twice as hard to program, here's the latest 360 Dashboard update's improvments:
It's also ten times as expensive and a billion times gayer, right?

Jesus you're a loser. PS2 was hard to program for and the xbox was basically a PC with consistant specs. Guess which one was more successful?

The Xbox continuously gained market share on the PS2. The 360 is crushing the PS3 atm. Millions to ZERO and should be around 9 million to *Alert! PS3 delayed do to techical issues in November*. It's called trends. You need to read up on them. Microsoft is on track for world domination.

Go Bill! He sits up there with Ben Franklin as one of the greatest Americans ever.

If you get your head out of the past and look at the present and future, find a clue you will.

The arrogant pricks at Sony are flushing that company down the shitter!

Good luck selling that overpriced 599 heap of shit vs the lowered to 299 premium Xbox package sometime in 2007 when the PS3 actually comes out. Two 360's for the price of one PS3 that's slower but has a bluray that nothing is available for. Nice.

We've already discussed the few million retards and tech geeks that would buy a PS3 even if it didn't work at all so don't get excited when there's a shortage. Xbox 360 is still hard to find in some cities 6 months later although I finally saw som premiums on the shelves at Frys.
User avatar
Canelek
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9380
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:23 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Canelek
Location: Portland, OR

Post by Canelek »

If you get your head out of the past and look at the present and future, find a clue you will.
Fuckin' yoda, man.

Back on topic:

I really hope the PS3 has enough edge on the 360 to force Microsoft to keep trying to up the ante, promoting killer software titles. Some of these shops, such as THQ, have been getting better and better...however, some of them need to be forced to produce (and develop, of course) better games. Mindblowing games. I mean there is some impressive shit on the 360 so far, like CoD2 and Oblivion, but there can be so much better.
en kærlighed småkager
User avatar
Pherr the Dorf
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2913
Joined: January 31, 2003, 9:30 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Sonoma County Calimifornia

Post by Pherr the Dorf »

my favorite line from the article was "steak in the heart"... it's not a hunk of meat!
The first duty of a patriot is to question the government

Jefferson
vn_Tanc
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2398
Joined: July 12, 2002, 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Post by vn_Tanc »

Zaelath wrote: That last at least is undeniably correct; the PS2 is a dog. Very few people have ever been able to code PS1 or PS2 properly, in fact, Square are the only ones that come to mind.
Utter rubbish. By the time the PS1 was at the end of its life people were squeezing it like the used to do the old 8-bit machines, and getting away with stuff Sony didn't approve of or even admit was possible.
PS2 had a longer learning curve but even a mediocre team is well in control of the machine now. Co-ordinating 5 processors and the DMA controller is an art, sure, but it's not rocket science.
The Xbox continuously gained market share on the PS2
LOL. Christ. It started from fucking ZERO % market share. Of course it consistently gained. And there did this continual gain leave it? Fucking nowhere in the grand scheme of things.

As for the PS3 hardware not being finalized in May? That's true. The final revision hardware isn't due til July AFAIK. But we're talking about piddly peripheral shit not being nailed down. The core systems have been solid for months.

I thikn Sony are fucking up this time around. I still think they'll take a giant shit on Winnow's world view at launch. Don't believe MS hype - they are talking a far better game than they're playing.
A man with a fork
In a world of soup
Image
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Gamespot is calling the article semi-bogus.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_ ... id=6152391
cadalano
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1673
Joined: July 16, 2004, 11:02 am
Location: Royal Palm Beach, FL

Post by cadalano »

there is no way that an inquirer article could be semi-bogus
I TOLD YOU ID SHOOT! BUT YOU DIDNT BELIEVE ME! WHY DIDNT YOU BELIEVE ME?
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Code: Select all

The Xbox continuously gained market share on the PS2. The 360 is crushing the PS3 atm. Millions to ZERO and should be around 9 million to *Alert! PS3 delayed do to techical issues in November*.  
The PS2 CRUSHED the Xbox in 2000. They sold over ONE HUNDRED MILLION units compared to XERO for the delayed xbox.


2001 -
PS - 90 mil
PS2 - 30 mil
Xbox - 3 mil

2003:
PS2 - 70 million
Xbox - 13 million


The xbox wasn't even a competitor to the PS2. It's sales were closer to the Gamecube and the PSP.


And you needn't worry about the PS3 Winnow. I'm sure when it's released it will not only continually gain marketshare from the 360, it will probably annihilate it in sales. MS shouldn't even try to compete with Sony, they should be more concerned about Nintendo.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Dal-KoE
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 62
Joined: December 9, 2003, 4:34 pm
Contact:

Post by Dal-KoE »

Winnow wrote: but has a bluray that nothing is available for. .
You should go check NetFlix and Blockbuster.. Both have quite a few titles in both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD... and more releasing everyday.
_____________________________
Dalaniel - Level 70 Warrior
Keepers of the Elements - Veeshan/Luclin
User avatar
Syenye
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 641
Joined: September 17, 2004, 10:08 am
Gender: Female
XBL Gamertag: asian tempest

Post by Syenye »

miir wrote:MS shouldn't even try to compete with Sony, they should be more concerned about Nintendo.
microsoft and sony are both promoting their respective consoles as compliments to the wii. they can't compete with the innovation, pricing, and loyalty of nintendo. most people will be buying the wii as a second console, and that's how nintendo will win.

and yes, i did accidentally type 'nintendo wiill wiin.'
User avatar
Niffoni
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1318
Joined: February 18, 2003, 12:53 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Post by Niffoni »

Sony has plenty of time to make the PS3 a distaster, but to call it that now is downright retarded. 360 was gay as shit when it was released but it's in much better shape now so you can't go by that.

I won't die of shock if Sony fucks this up, but with all due respect to Winnow, I'm not stupid enough to use him as my PS3 "source" for news :P

As for the format "wars", i'll let the fanboys slap their cocks together for a year or two and go with whatever wins. Honestly, who gives a shit?
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Syenye wrote:
miir wrote:MS shouldn't even try to compete with Sony, they should be more concerned about Nintendo.
microsoft and sony are both promoting their respective consoles as compliments to the wii. they can't compete with the innovation, pricing, and loyalty of nintendo. most people will be buying the wii as a second console, and that's how nintendo will win.

and yes, i did accidentally type 'nintendo wiill wiin.'
Technically, the 360 and PS3 are competitors..... but in sales, the 360 will be competing with the Wii.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Syenye
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 641
Joined: September 17, 2004, 10:08 am
Gender: Female
XBL Gamertag: asian tempest

Post by Syenye »

miir wrote:
Syenye wrote:
miir wrote:MS shouldn't even try to compete with Sony, they should be more concerned about Nintendo.
microsoft and sony are both promoting their respective consoles as compliments to the wii. they can't compete with the innovation, pricing, and loyalty of nintendo. most people will be buying the wii as a second console, and that's how nintendo will win.

and yes, i did accidentally type 'nintendo wiill wiin.'
Technically, the 360 and PS3 are competitors..... but in sales, the 360 will be competing with the Wii.
well in sales, they will all 3 be competing... do you mean because they are closer in price?
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Nooo.. the original xbox had similar sales numbers to the gamecube. It never even got close to the PS2.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Syenye
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 641
Joined: September 17, 2004, 10:08 am
Gender: Female
XBL Gamertag: asian tempest

Post by Syenye »

miir wrote:Nooo.. the original xbox had similar sales numbers to the gamecube. It never even got close to the PS2.
the ps2 had over a year on the xbox though, and their prices at launch were the same. given that microsoft has had roughly a year to gain marketshare and that their prices are considerably lower, i think it will be different this time around.

japan will be a different story, since the 360 has done so poorly over there. it will come down to sony vs nintendo there i believe, and if the handheld sales are any indication, innovation will win out over pretty pictures.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

I hope the PS3 turns out ok. I want quality RPGs to play on consoles.

You guys are giving Sony way too much credit based on the past. Things change. Sony used to dominate walkman and portable players...who dominates that area now? Sony Pictures is crap. Sony owns a whole shitload of oddball companies currently. They're losing focus.
Cutting Sony, a Corporate Octopus, Back to a Rational Size


New York Times


WAKO, Japan When Kumiko Ishioka bought car insurance last year, she chose the company that offered the cheapest rate. It also helped that the company bore the same brand name as that on her life insurance policy, her favorite skin lotion and her television set Sony.

"Sony is definitely a name you can trust," Ms. Ishioka, 38, the owner of a clothing boutique in this Tokyo suburb, said. "But it's not really an electronics company anymore.

In the United States, Sony is known as an aggressive electronics giant that expanded into music and Hollywood films, with mixed results. But at home in Japan, Sony is large and diffuse, a sprawling conglomerate that sells products as diverse as flashlight batteries, online banking services even foie gras.

This presents a problem. Sony has expanded into so many business areas in Japan and abroad that it has blurred its original identity as an engineering innovator. Analysts say this murkier image threatens one of the company's most profitable assets: the so-called Sony premium, the higher prices long commanded by its electronics products, which still account for 64 percent of revenue, excluding sales between Sony divisions.

Restoring this premium, they say, is one of the most pressing challenges facing Sony's chief executive, Sir Howard Stringer, who took over nearly a year ago, as he tries to reinvigorate the company after years of lackluster products and disappointing profits. While earnings have begun recovering, analysts say, the premium is still shrinking.

Sony remains one of the world's best-known brands. But even in the United States, analysts say, it is as likely to be associated with the movie "The Da Vinci Code" as with portable music devices, a product category Sony invented in 1979 with the Walkman cassette player but which the Apple iPod now dominates.

"What is Sony?" asked Hitoshi Kuriyama, an analyst with Merrill Lynch. "We don't even know anymore. Consumers used to pay more because the brand meant something special."

While Sony has lost the most ground in Japan, analysts say the Sony premium has also shrunk in the United States, where the company has had to price newer products like high-definition television sets close to the level of rivals like Sharp, Panasonic and Samsung.

"Sony has to trim its premium," said Paul O'Donovan of the market research company Gartner. "The brand equity, although still high, is clearly on the decline in consumers' minds."

Sir Howard calls restoring Sony's image a priority, to prevent the problems in Japan from spreading overseas.

He has pledged to refocus the company on electronics, and on creating the sort of "champion products" that made Sony famous in the first place. In February, he announced plans to sell several noncore businesses based in Japan, including a cosmetics maker, a mail-order shopping company called the Sony Family Club and a chain of Parisian restaurants.

While Sir Howard has made progress, as was demonstrated in a recent upturn in earnings, analysts say he has a long way to go.

"We need to rebuild the brand seriously," he said in an interview, "in terms of energy and perception around the world."

Globally, the company has about 1,000 subsidiaries and affiliates, of which about a third are unrelated to its core electronics business. While many are in Japan, they include the likes of the Sony Metreon shopping mall in San Francisco.

In fact, the Sony group's most profitable line of business last year was not electronics or entertainment, but finance. The company has three financial units in Japan, whose low fees have made them popular: Sony Life Insurance; Sony Assurance, a nonlife insurer whose coverage includes auto policies; and Sony Bank, an online lender. These subsidiaries earned $1.7 billion in the fiscal year ended in March, though losses in electronics dragged Sony's overall profit down to $1.1 billion.

Sony's success as a cut-rate financial company seems to run counter to its desire to remain a top-end brand in electronics, analysts say. And nowhere is the loss of the Sony premium more apparent than in Japan, where it took in 20 percent of its electronics-related revenue last year.

Visit electronics stores in Tokyo, and Sony's new Bravia line of liquid-crystal-display television sits prominently in front, next to the rival Sharp and Panasonic. This is the work of the new chief executive of Sony's electronics division, Ryoji Chubachi, who regularly visits large retailers to offer incentives for making Sony products more visible something his predecessors never deigned to do.

More important, Bravia TV's now cost about the same as rival sets, the result of price-cutting last fall as Sony tried to regain its position as the world's top-selling TV maker. It succeeded, replacing Sharp last quarter, according to an American market data company, Display Research. But this success came at the cost of Sony's ability to charge more than its competitors.

"The Sony premium keeps getting smaller," said Hiroshi Takada, an analyst in the Tokyo office of J. P. Morgan. "The top end of the TV market is much more crowded now."

Sony's slipping status is not lost on consumers here. "Buying a Sony TV used to be like buying a Mercedes-Benz," said Yoshihiro Ueda, 42, a bank employee shopping for liquid-crystal-display television sets at a discount retailer in central Tokyo. "It's still a good name, but Sony doesn't stand out anymore." Mr. Ueda said he was buying a Sharp TV instead.

This hazier image is also showing up in recent consumer surveys. Last month, BP Nikkei Consulting in Tokyo released a survey showing that Sony dropped to Japan's eighth-most admired brand, from the top position last year. The number of consumers saying that Sony showed "conspicuous individuality" dropped to about 25 percent, from about 40 percent the year before, BP Nikkei said.

For a generation of consumers in Japan and the United States, Sony was the company that transformed personal entertainment with its Trinitron color television sets, Walkman portable music players and compact disc players.

But Sony also showed early ambitions to reach beyond electronics and become a global conglomerate, as many companies aspired to do in the decades after World War II. Akio Morita, the company's co-founder, envisioned offering consumers not just television sets and stereos, but movies and songs to play on them and also the bank credit with which to buy them.

Sony made its first foray into finance, establishing a life insurance unit in 1979. The casualty insurer and bank were established in 1999 and 2001 respectively under Nobuyuki Idei, then chief executive, who shared Mr. Morita's penchant for empire-building.

It was also under Mr. Morita that Sony started a French restaurant chain in 1966, licensing the Maxim's de Paris name. He later led Sony into entertainment, acquiring record labels and then Columbia Pictures in 1989. Seen at the time as a symbol of Japan's rising economic might, the Columbia takeover ended up costing Sony billions as the Japanese struggled to understand Hollywood's culture.

Since he took Sony's helm last June, Sir Howard has promised to increase cooperation between the electronics and entertainment arms. He has also tried to prune the sprawling electronics business by shedding 600 of Sony's 3,000 product models, including the Qualia line of luxury electronics and Aibo the robot dog.

"Sony was just too diversified," said Iwao Nakatani, dean of Tama University in Tokyo, who was a member of Sony's board until last year. "Howard Stringer is doing what his predecessors were unable to do."

So far, Sir Howard has defied expectations that he would sell larger noncore businesses, particularly the three big finance units. Sony has flirted with selling parts of its financial units before, including talks with several American and European financial companies four years ago about selling a stake in Sony Life, the company said.

Many analysts and even Sony employees say Sir Howard could spin the finance units off as early as next year. One possibility, according to analysts, is to take them public while holding on to a controlling stake, a sale that could earn Sony billions of dollars.

But many Japanese are sad to see some Sony products go. Entire Web sites have sprung up on which owners of Aibo robot dogs fume about the product's demise.

Ms. Ishioka, the boutique owner, said she hoped nothing happened to the line of skin lotions and treatments bearing the Sony name and sold by Sony's cosmetics maker, B& C Laboratories. She said she first started using the products after hearing that Crown Princess Masako used Sony skin care products before her wedding in 1993. Ms. Ishioka said she also visited Sony's cosmetic outlets for beauty massages, a service popularly known here as the Sony Esthe.

"I want my Sony Esthe as much as my Sony TV," she said
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Sony used to dominate walkman and portable players...who dominates that area now?
Sony also used to dominate the video game console market...




























































Oh wait, they still do! :lol:
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27541
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

Keep living in the past. I hope you aren't a stockbroker!

MSFT is your daddy! (That red line at the bottom is Sony)

Image
User avatar
Sumdaor
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 199
Joined: July 8, 2002, 6:05 pm
XBL Gamertag: hatchie

Post by Sumdaor »

The orignal xbox gained marketshare because it was superior hardware wise to the ps2. The games looked better on the xbox then they did the ps2. That being said, I don't see how the 360 is going to hold over the ps3 if the hardware is superior and the price drops.
Sumdaor-Level 60 Warrior-retired
Twinkletoez-Level 68 Bard-Retired
User avatar
Jice Virago
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1644
Joined: July 4, 2002, 5:47 pm
Gender: Male
PSN ID: quyrean
Location: Orange County

Post by Jice Virago »

Specs do not make the fucking system. Dreamcast anyone?

Game selection is the greatest determining factor. Xbox had dick all for good RPGs and only Jade Empire was an exclusive. The 360 is six months out and it still only has one fucking RPG which is also available on PC (and the only 360 game my wife and I have that sees the light of day). Where the fuck was MS at E3? There were virtually no new major titles of note. In fact, the fucking PS2 had more titles being demoed than the Xbox. I guess MS is content with their new "halobox 360". The PS3 will have an inbuilt audience already, since it will retro play PS1 and PS2 games. MS seriously fucked up by not including full backwards compatability. They also seem content to let the Xbox1 die a slow painful quiet death, since there were no exclusive titles for it at all at E3. They need a serious priemere title beyond shooters because as it stands I would rather actually plug in a Dreamcast or Neo Geo and play it than fuck around with the three games I actually can be forced to play in the 360.

Nintendo could be a competitor, but they decided to reinvent the fuckign wheel again with the spazoid controller. If I wanted to excercise and jerk around like a retard, I wouldn't be playing Mario; I would go outside. Still, they can take a big flaming shit in a box and put the word "Mario" or "Zelda" on the outside of it and still sell a million copies, so they may be on to something. But having looked at their controller, I have flashbacks to the N64's horrid piece of shit that made me quit nintendo for years.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
Post Reply