Drawbacks to Diesel?

noel · Post by **noel** » May 19, 2006, 10:39 pm

I'm looking at getting a new car sometime in the next year. Ideally I'd like to get something with lower emissions and better fuel economy than the car I'm currently driving. Ideally I'd like a car that gets more than 30MPG and isn't a piece of shit.

I'm not fond of the aesthetics of the current crop of hybrids (though I haven't ruled them out completely). I used to have a Jetta that I liked a lot and I was looking at the Turbo Diesel model. I know diesel isn't available at every gas station, but is there any other drawback? What are the negatives to a diesel engine? 45MPG sounds pretty nice if the only thing I have to worry about is making sure I know where I can get diesel gas.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » May 20, 2006, 12:01 am

You might want to check this out:

http://www.honda.co.uk/change/

New Diesel that should be hitting the states in the next couple years. Was in BusinessWeek recently.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 20, 2006, 12:03 am

Honestly.. the engines usually last forfrigginever. Pretty much bullet proof. Used VW TDIs are selling like hotcakes these days and one drawback I can possibly see is inflated prices due to demand.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » May 20, 2006, 12:16 am

Diesel runs a great engine. Less parts to fail than a gasoline combustion engine. Typically, a well made diesel engine can outlast its gasoline counterpart (assuming the same type of maticulous maintenance)

A few things that gasoline engines will "look better" at that you should keep in mind (incase you didn't know already).

Peak power of a diesel is typically at lower RPM's. Torque is the king in diesel engines, where horsepower is going to look really crummy.

I think the VW 1.9t Diesel is like 98hp @ 4000rpms, and 177 ft*lbs of torque at 1800rpms....where as the 2.5l gasoline engine gets 150hp at 5000rpm and 170 ft*lbs at 3750rpms.

Of the diesels I have driven, a manual transmission is almost a must to take advantage of the engine's powerband.

Anyway, take that for what it is, just a bit of advice.

Also, for consideration, a friend of mine has a 2002 VW Passat, with the 1.8L turbo in it...while yes it does use premium fuel, he gets combined gas mileage of 34mpg.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 20, 2006, 12:54 am

My friend has had two Passat TDIs back home. It is actually really fun to drive heh since you have tons of torque from a standstill. And if you need to haul something.. fun times!

Not a sportscar but as a daily driver can't be beat imo. Also remember that a hybrid typically gets better MPG in stop and go driving and not on the highway.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 20, 2006, 1:02 am

diesel engines are great. like already mentioned, the major drawback is crappy top speed, and you can't just roll into any gas station and assume they have a diesel pump.

also, even modern diesel engines need a decent amount of warming up before I'd take them anywhere.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » May 20, 2006, 1:17 am

I reckon yall lives in the sticks, yup. Round here yonder we gots us the deisel at the dag gum gas stations

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » May 20, 2006, 10:15 am

The VW TDI engines are great. The only thing I know of is that you really need to stay on top of the servicing, because *if* the timing belt breaks, you're in for a world of hurt. But I think those get something like 100,000 kilometers to them, so...

I'd recommend the Golf TDI, just because you fuckers need more hatchbacks on the roads. It's so much nicer to look at than the Jetta.

If not, consider the Audi A4 TDI.

Demags · Post by **Demags** » May 20, 2006, 10:42 am

The newer diesels exhaust does not smell nearly as bad as older models but some people find the smell can bother them somewhat, diesel exhaust often gives me headaches. If you have access to bio-diesel this wouldnt be much of a problem.

My cousin makes his own bio-diesel to save some cash, and on a 3/4 bio to 1/4 diesel mix his F-350 smells like someone is cooking burgers, its actually pleasant (although still toxic).

Its pretty funny watching people walk up and waft some truck exhaust fumes to their nose checking it out.

VW makes some nice vehicles. I owned an 84 rabbit gti that I truely loved to drive, maintenence was a little more than the average car, but that thing rarely failed even being parked outside during the U.P. winters.

Demags

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 21, 2006, 11:33 pm

Yep, diesels really need glow plugs if your area temp drops below freezing.
I never thought it was the simpler design that gave them such great durability but rather the tolerances they are built to withstand. The pressure needed to ignite just air in the cylinder is much higher than a fuel-air mix in a gas engine.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 22, 2006, 1:10 am

I like mine, no complaints whatsoever. Can't beat the mileage and they last a long time, mines got 260k (at a guess) on it right now.

Some friends with newer TDI Jettas have no problems cruising at 80, so I don't really know what the top speed deal is that someone mentioned. They are a bit different to drive, all the power is in the low end.

Honda, Ford and Mazda all say they're bringing diesel cars here, don't hold your breath. They've been saying that for a couple years. Don't buy the CRD Jeep, it has some issues right now.

If you aren't meticulous about scheduled maintenance, don't buy one. The engines last forever if you keep them up, if you don't it can get very expensive in a hurry. Clean fuel from someplace that sells a decent volume is a must along with the regular stuff, oil changes, fuel filters, etc... Pretty sure the new engines have a 100k mile timing belt just like everything else on the market.

Biodiesel is fine, keep in mind that's a very expensive pump you're putting it through.

The pressure needed to ignite just air in the cylinder is much higher than a fuel-air mix in a gas engine.

22:1 on mine, compared to 9-ish:1 on gas cars.

*Edit - You can buy a diesel in CA now? Last I heard they couldn't sell new ones there.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » May 22, 2006, 2:18 am

Aabidano wrote:Some friends with newer TDI Jettas have no problems cruising at 80, so I don't really know what the top speed deal is that someone mentioned.

Well I think they mean 'real' top speed

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 22, 2006, 7:12 am

Good infoz here:
http://www.tdiclub.com/

If I could find a new TDI Golf at a reasonable price I'd have bought one already, the new Jettas are ugly and americanized. In the future they're going to a common rail system, cheaper and better economy.

With the premium they're asking (and getting) for the vehicles right now it's hard to justify the extra expense for the VW. It's a very nice car but at current gas prices you're better off buying a Civic or Corolla from a dollars\mile point of view.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 22, 2006, 4:27 pm

Trek wrote:I reckon yall lives in the sticks, yup. Round here yonder we gots us the deisel at the dag gum gas stations

In vegas I had to go through about 10 different stations before I found a station that had diesel. (thx you texaco)

The only drawback I can think of is that the price of diesel has gone up considerably due to more people moving to diesels for fuel economy. At some stations in dallas, diesel is the same price as premium.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » May 22, 2006, 5:18 pm

I cant talk about diesels but I'd say dont assume that hybrids are automatically more efficient. I have fambly in Seattle and AZ that own Priuses.. Pri-ii.... and they get as much or less MPG than a well built standard vehicle. You pay a lot for the battery and most of them are ugly as hell, the Prius is anyway.

If you live in a stop-and-go area though without a lot of freeways then youre looking at a different picture.

side note though, anyone have a good resource on bio-diesel? I watch the discovery channel all the time while naked and Dirty Jobs had a guy that had to add a lot of chemicals and refine the shit before he could put it in his truck. Mythbusters on the other hand simply filtered the chunky food-matter out of ordinary used fry grease and put it straight into their engine without any other steps and got 30 MPG with it. Which way is the right way?

by the way they also tried blowing compressed hydrogen directly into a normal gasoline engine to see if it would run, and it did for about 10 seconds until a backfire practically blew the entire engine apart. it was sweet!

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 22, 2006, 5:46 pm

Lots of stuff on it on the interweb:
Biofuels forum
http://www.homebiodieselkits.com/hobikit.html

On Dirty Jobs the guy was making biodiesel from waste veggie oil. They made it look much more complicated than it is.

MythBusters was running straight fryer oil, it has to be filtered, dewatered and heated prior to use. If you use it straight it will eat your fuel system after a while from corrosion\clogging, and trash it completely the first cool morning. For $600 you can do that with any diesel engine, older non-electronic ones are the best choice. VW diesels from '79-92 are prime candidates, as well as Nissans, Toyotas and Mitsubishis as well as most older diesel truck engines.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » May 22, 2006, 8:02 pm

Truant wrote:
Trek wrote:I reckon yall lives in the sticks, yup. Round here yonder we gots us the deisel at the dag gum gas stations
In vegas I had to go through about 10 different stations before I found a station that had diesel. (thx you texaco)

The only drawback I can think of is that the price of diesel has gone up considerably due to more people moving to diesels for fuel economy. At some stations in dallas, diesel is the same price as premium.

Most stations around Reno/Sparks and Carson have Deisel.....So It was kind of a joke that all the backwoods towns have it and big cities dont...

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 22, 2006, 9:05 pm

I have fambly in Seattle and AZ that own Priuses.. Pri-ii.... and they get as much or less MPG than a well built standard vehicle.

Not that I know shit about shit, and not that this is even on-topic, but the people I know who live in my area get 50-55 MPG on their Pri-ii. This is in the DC/Baltimore metro area, so there's some city driving, lots of freeways and beltways, lots of traffic in general. I get about 24 MPG on my Subaru Legacy here.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 22, 2006, 11:46 pm

No such thing as a freeway/beltway in the DC/Baltimore area in the traditional sense. Where it takes you over an hour to go 18 miles on the interstate.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 23, 2006, 12:50 am

They crawl at rush hour and through chunks of the day, but even the beltways move fine in the evening and on weekends.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 23, 2006, 5:16 am

I stand corrected. At 4:00AM you can usually travel at a decent speed.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 23, 2006, 12:20 pm

cadalano wrote:side note though, anyone have a good resource on bio-diesel?

Willie is your friend!
http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/

(I only know that because willie is actually advertising at major diesel stations here in the state, I don't actually know much, if anything, about bio diesel).

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 23, 2006, 12:38 pm

Truant wrote:
cadalano wrote:side note though, anyone have a good resource on bio-diesel?
Willie is your friend!
http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/

(I only know that because willie is actually advertising at major diesel stations here in the state, I don't actually know much, if anything, about bio diesel).

cool, there's a location not far from my place! Too bad I can't use it in my car though