Disgusting politics lately

[Krimson Klaw]

I am getting so annoyed at all the attention lately from swiftboat this, documentary that, he said this, she said that, that's going back and forth between these two candidates that it's making me sick. Both parties are acting like play ground brats and it's turning me off in a major way. I don't remember presidential runs ever getting this childish in my short history. The way this is going, the presidential debates will get sidetracked on who did not condemn which add and who insulted who first. Childish is all I can say. It's pissing me off. Both sides are guilty and if you say otherwise you are just being partisan. It sucks. Can these two rich dickheads please calm the name calling and rhetoric down so we can get back to the issues facing the country? Jeez.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

No they can't stop. I'd love to just hear about the issues, but both the Dems and Republicans know no other way, than to cloud the whole thing with bullshit. You have to really look hard through all the bullshit to see where each one would take the country in a 4 year term.

[Voronwë]

i think this swiftboat crap will fade out this week, with the RNC basically being the launching pad for the closing phase of the campaign.

[Chmee]

Kerry probably wants to avoid the issues because if he strays from just assuring people that he is not George Bush, people may start remembering that he is John Kerry, get depressed, and stay at home. Bush probably wants to avoid the issues because it will highlight how lousy he has been on many issues, particularly for portions of his base (like the small government crowd) and they are likely to get depressed and stay at home.

[Siji]

stay at home.

Something tells me that regardless of who people prefer, the turn out for the coming election is going to be a very large one.

[Voronwë]

the Swiftvets actually completely misplayed their opportunity to truly hurt Kerry.

They should have started with the attack on the true reason they are opposed to him - his post-Vietnam statements.

Kerry is much more vulnerable there, and they wouldn't have to lie to attack him. But it has been thouroughly proven by several major indepentent sources that they did in fact lie and misrepresent information in their attacks on his military service.

So now they attack his post-war statements, which are a legitimate thing to question, and a potential political liability, but people view them (rightly so) as smear merchants.

So they really actually shot themselves in the foot with their blood lust. But to paraphrase Steve Gurgin from the Kennedy School of Govt, they did "take a pint of blood from Kerry".

[Sirton]

The swift boat stuff will prob fade, but from what I hear theres more coming: a PoW group thats gonna do some smearing and commercials saying how they were treated much worse in Vietnam after Kerrys speech to the senate sometime mid september, and also a War crimes group and some war crime museum about somethin not sure.....dont know just heard about it once so far, so not sure whats gonna pan out.

To me all this 527s stuff, and 9/11 michael moore documentary, miserable failure speeches ect ect the past 2 years...are total BS and really hurting the country, but if ya gonna dish it out for 2 yrs straight exspect to get hit by some of it yourself.

[Kelshara]

hum how would they know wether they got treated better or worse after that speech? I highly doubt there was a calendar in their prison cell.. not to mention I don't see why what Kerry said should have to do with how PoWs were treated.

Also, the PoW thing might backfire a bit with the Iraqi jail issues, current issues regarding holding "suspects" in the war on terror etc.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

.. not to mention I don't see why what Kerry said should have to do with how PoWs were treated.

It fuels the enemy and gives them reasons of justification.

[Metanis]

Can these two rich dickheads please calm the name calling and rhetoric down so we can get back to the issues facing the country? Jeez.

No they won't.

There is no down-side for the Bush camp to keep the pressure on Kerry. But there IS a significant down-side for the Kerry camp if they do not reply in kind.

Here's my logic.

1.) The battleground is for the relatively few "undecideds". The faithful of either party ignore the rhetoric as background noise, like static from an AM radio station.

2.) Undecided voters tend to vote for the challenger. Kerry is likely to get more of these votes than Bush.

3.) Undecided voters who get sick of the process are more likely to stay home. Undecided voters staying home tends to benefit Bush more than Kerry.

4.) Bush can afford to alienate the undecided middle just a wee bit more than Kerry. I mean look, they are less likely to vote for him in the first place. If he pushes them and they don't convert to Bush BUT they do decide to drop out then that is a better alternative to them deciding to go with Kerry.

5.) Kerry is fighting the perception he would be a weak president and commander-in-chief. He has to speak out and be aggressive or he loses to that perception.

Kerry can't afford to sit back and take the high road. But if he is too aggressive and drives undecided voters away it hurts him more than it would Bush.

I think Bush & Party can afford to keep the pressure on Kerry. Kerry can't afford to stand down. This puts Kerry in an unenviable reactionary mode.

Keep in mind I'm only talking about a small sliver of the electorate. That group that hasn't made up their mind... but will decide this election.

[Metaphantasus]

I liked how in the beginning, Kerry didn't seem to be bashing bush. I remember that clearly cus I thought to myself, that's very venerable to be above bashing someone else and just show your own positives, but the bastard succumbed. Now it's just a choice of the lesser of two evils. If Bush does win my positive will be the possibility of Hilary running in 08. I'm not a super left wing nut I just like to see things mixed up. I'm tired of the same old B.S. and I love when huge shit hits the fan and changes everyones way of life because it can happen and I don't think people are ready for it when they should be.

[Siji]

.. not to mention I don't see why what Kerry said should have to do with how PoWs were treated.

It fuels the enemy and gives them reasons of justification.

Because we all know how many wonderful changes Jane Fonda fueled in her war presence.

[Winnow]

I posted awhile ago this would happen. ALL of the other issues have been thrown right out the window : )

This hurts Kerry mostly. He has to focus on something that ultimately doesn't matter while important issues aren't debated.

Kerry should have let the info on his Vietnam service, etc filter out by itself without using it as a primary campaign tool. He's one mixed up guy. No wonder he's having trouble. Trying to make the veterans happy and the hippys happy at the same time is a tough job.

Hopefully we'll be barraged by this same crap for another 2 months.

[Kylere]

Vote Libertarian http://www.lp.org!

[Deward]

You beat me Kylere!

Either way we are screwed with Bush or Kerry in my opinion. Vote Libertarian and you can avoid the blame of voting wrong. The campaign is just going to get worse. Bush and his cronies are just getting back at Kerry and his MoveOn.org cronies. I find it funny how Kerry is complaining about Bush's smears when he was doing teh same thing a few months ago.

[Voronwë]

You beat me Kylere!

Either way we are screwed with Bush or Kerry in my opinion. Vote Libertarian and you can avoid the blame of voting wrong. The campaign is just going to get worse. Bush and his cronies are just getting back at Kerry and his MoveOn.org cronies. I find it funny how Kerry is complaining about Bush's smears when he was doing teh same thing a few months ago.

i think the 2000 election was proof that the above statement is totally false.

[Metanis]

You beat me Kylere!

Either way we are screwed with Bush or Kerry in my opinion. Vote Libertarian and you can avoid the blame of voting wrong. The campaign is just going to get worse. Bush and his cronies are just getting back at Kerry and his MoveOn.org cronies. I find it funny how Kerry is complaining about Bush's smears when he was doing teh same thing a few months ago.

i think the 2000 election was proof that the above statement is totally false.

I don't recall for sure... did Nader hurt Gore enough that it cost him the election?

[Voronwë]

the analysis I have heard is that without 3rd party candidates Gore would have won, but maybe i just heard that from liberal commentators. I can't throw out a source on that.


That being said, i was more specifically speaking to the notion that the Democratic nominee is the same as the Republican nominee. They are very different, regardless if either is less than perfect.

[Metanis]

That being said, i was more specifically speaking to the notion that the Democratic nominee is the same as the Republican nominee. They are very different, regardless if either is less than perfect.

I agree fully.

For example, think about the special interest groups that each man will have to please after the election.

Bush - Traditional Big Business, Defense Contractors, etc.
Kerry - Environmentalists, Labor Unions, etc.

[Voronwë]

they are both whores.....they just have different pimps

[Asheran Mojomaster]

.. not to mention I don't see why what Kerry said should have to do with how PoWs were treated.

It fuels the enemy and gives them reasons of justification.

Because we all know how many wonderful changes Jane Fonda fueled in her war presence.

Actually, I believe that the reason they were treated worse AFTER his speech is because he said that soldiers over there had commited atrocities and war crimes, etc. We were talking about this in class today, my teacher said that the Vietnamese had recordings of him saying this and played it to the soldiers and told them that unless they would confess to war crimes that Kerry said they commited, they would be tortured \ beaten even more.

Personally I haven't saw any sources to back this up, and even if I could find some I'm sure that even if the North Vietnamese did do this, they were just using that as an excuse, and playing it to the soldiers to try to demoralize them and make them break down.

[Bojangels]

I heard that there's Republicans donating and campaigning for Nader or other small parties just to get some liberal votes away from the Democrats.

[Winnow]

I heard that there's Republicans donating and campaigning for Nader or other small parties just to get some liberal votes away from the Democrats.

Screw that. I'm trying to get Jessie Jackson to run again.