Prop 8 California

[Niffoni]

I don't give a shit about gay marriage.

But it does worry me to see minority rights being put to a majority vote.

Isn't that, by definition, unconstitutional? Unless of course you want to put it to a vote to change the constitution so that minority-- O SHIT IT'S A CIRCLE, HALP!

[Animalor]

Gay people have as much right to be miserable as the rest of us...

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Olbermann: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp ... 3#27652443

[Markulas]

Churches and Republicans are trying to pass multiple anti-gay marriage amendments before my generation becomes of age. Anti-gay activists and churches know that young people are very accepting of homosexual lifestyle. By creating legislation now they are trying to put up a roadblock that my cohort (19-29) will have to struggle through in the future.

Case in point,

Proposition 8, which passed by a 52 to 48 margin, was opposed by young voters (that same 18 to 29 cohort) by a 61 to 39 margin.

There's a much greater acceptance of gays and gay marriage because we've grown up with "Will and Grace", "Queer Eye", "Brokeback Mountain" along with increased abandonment from established religions. I'm disappointed that Prop 8 passed, among other anti-gay initiatives, but I remain strongly optimistic that gays will be able to marry in the future.

[Tyek]

Adex,

I look at it this way.

There were hundreds of marriages last week, I did not give a crap about a single one. Not one of those affected me. They affected only those people involved and their family.

So if I do not care about them getting married, why would it matter if they were gay? It still does not have any bearing in my life.

I let you live how you want, why should I have different rules for another group, just because I do not have the same belief, likes, etc.

As for the children issue. If your main concern is that the kids might have more tolerance for the gay lifestyle or be more prone to moving towards that life, then I would again argue how that would affect anything in your life. There is just as many likely negative results of a heterosexual couple being bad parents as there is a homosexual one.

Sexual abuse, verbal and physical abuse and poor parenting are not the result of ones sexual preference.

So if there is little to no negative affect to you and your family, and no statistical data that shows negative impact on society why would you care?

The official ballot title language for Proposition 8 is "Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry." The entirety of the text to be added to the constitution is: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

Now lets substitute some words and you justify them the same way you justify the word same-sex

The official ballot title language for Proposition 8 is "Eliminates Right of Black and Hispanic Couples to Marry." The entirety of the text to be added to the constitution is: "Only marriage between a White couple is valid or recognized in California."

[laneela]

Now lets substitute some words and you justify them the same way you justify the word same-sex

The official ballot title language for Proposition 8 is "Eliminates Right of Black and Hispanic Couples to Marry." The entirety of the text to be added to the constitution is: "Only marriage between a White couple is valid or recognized in California."

Exactly... The hypocrisy is appalling. And the fact that the majority of blacks and hispanics voted for this (in FL too) is infuriating to me. You can't call foul play when you're being discriminated against and turn around and do the same thing to another group of minorities.

It's as simple as realizing that religion has no place in government. The government is not set up to dictate what society's moral compass should be. It's there to protect us. I don't know if Adex' questions were rhetorical - I assumed they were for a bit but I'm not so sure now. Homosexual couples and homosexual parents do absolutely no harm to society. In fact homosexual parents have a positive effect on their children in making them more accepting of the fact that people *are* different - not matter how hard you try to legislate it.

As for the comment someone made about homosexual relationships not having the same lifespan as heterosexual couples... I agree though I think that you can't compare the two. At the moment, homosexual couples don't have the same rights to marriage and child adopting that heterosexual couples have. Heterosexuals can get married - that there makes relationships last longer since once you've made that commitment, you're more hesitant of calling it quits when the mood strikes you. Also, heteros will stay together much longer than they might desire if there are children involved. I highly doubt that would be different for homosexual couples with children.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Welcome back, Adex.

I'm with Jimmy Carr: "I'm against gay marriage, because gay marriage will lead to gay divorce, and that will be bitchy."

/joke.

[Ashur]

I'm really surprised the Mormons are behind this, as the argument for plural marriage is killed by the wording (or maybe they are hoping it will be overturned?).

While I really don't fucking care because I don't live there, I'd be just as happy if they changed it to "Only marriage between two consenting adults is valid or recognized in California."

[Winnow]

The official ballot title language for Proposition 8 is "Eliminates Right of Black and Hispanic Couples to Marry." The entirety of the text to be added to the constitution is: "Only marriage between a White couple is valid or recognized in California."

What kind of a sissy-boy highlights something in pink?

I don't get the anti gay sentiment. It's a predjudice just like any other prejudice. Gays and lesbians should have the same rights as anyone else including civil unions. Marriage should have absolutely nothing to do with the government for both homo and hetro alike. And, of course, separate laws for the protection of children that are not bound to marriage at all.

[Gzette]

The whole thing reminds me of my Mexican friends. While a minority, some are rapidly and openly racist against black folks. It got to the point that I don't hang out with many any more, and have entered yelling matches over it. It's like being oppressed at some point entitles you to oppress others, to them, I guess.

[Spang]

Racism isn't racist.

[Sirton]

I don't get the anti gay sentiment. It's a predjudice just like any other prejudice. Gays and lesbians should have the same rights as anyone else including civil unions. Marriage should have absolutely nothing to do with the government for both homo and hetro alike. And, of course, separate laws for the protection of children that are not bound to marriage at all.

Im a proud conservative and I could agree to this. I think this would pass across the U.S.

The problem in California is it has gotten into a political area of BULL SHIT! A pissing contest of Majority of Voters=Judical system. To were it is to religious folk as if you are turning your back on your core values and religion of what society should try and be to what you know is right by the government of equality.

That is why in my opion, marriage should be religious and government should not interfere, and civil unions should be equal and under the governments control of benifits etc.


I know there is plenty of hate towards gay people in some communities but same as gay vs religious communities(evidence this board).......But to win the majority its as simple as: The People of many religious factions do not want the government coming in and telling them there church MUST recognize whatever they say is marriage. Goat+dog, fish+human, Woman+Horse, Man+3 Women. Prevent that any victory is yours...Its as simple as that from a different perspective from this board.

Seperation Church vs State

[Fairweather Pure]

I'm really surprised the Mormons are behind this, as the argument for plural marriage is killed by the wording (or maybe they are hoping it will be overturned?).

First off, I believe the Mormons are now being investigated for this due to some kind of false advertising? Second, Mormons have not advocated or practiced plural marriage in over 100 years. The poeple that do, and call themselves Mormons, are not recognized by the LDS church. If you decided to practice poligamy as a member of the LDS faith, you would be excommunicated from the church. It would be like if a group of Catholics started practicing that abortion was perfectly fine and priests could have sex and marry. The Pope and Cathollic church would no longer be associated with that sect.

[Tyek]

I grew up Catholic Fair. I agree they would no longer recognize a group like that, which makes their hiding of the Pedofile priests even more hypocritical.

I also agree Sirton, the government should stay out of marriage, but they did not. Our President says he is guided by a higher power, every politician makes "the great church visit tour" just before election. It is ingrained in our society. I look at people like my mother-in-law and shake my head. The concern over the sullying of their wonderful institution is insane. Sadly to overcome this, the government is being asked to take a position. I really don't think they want to, the issue is too polarizing, but they also had to step in to give women and african americans rights. Why should gays not be the same. I realize the significant differences involved in freedoms like voting and marriage, but until the government stops issuing marriage licenses they will be involved. How can you not allow a certain segment of the population of a basic service based solely on their sexuality?

I am for the gay marriage proposal, but I am against this recent lawsuit against eharmony. To force a company to offer a gay option on their site is wrong. E-Harmony has every right to not participate in any segment of the market they want to. If they choose not to provide services to gays, they are affecting their bottom line, and not much else. It is not like there are not thousands of other gay dating services.