NFL News/Discussion 2011

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 3, 2011, 5:27 pm

Hmmm. A few weeks ago I'd agree about the chargers beating DET, but not so much anymore, unless Rivers finds his accuracy and zip.

Packers will win easy, both games. Caveat: Sparks needs to have good games to keep that extra safety in the box.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 3, 2011, 9:14 pm

Jice Virago wrote:If I were Denver, I would eat the shit sandwich this year and let Tebow get the shit pounded out of him, so that the Denver fans learn the consequences of pushing for a stupid change like that. I would then cut his ass and trade big for Matt Flynn (Rodger's backup, probably as talented as him) and spend every fucking draft pick I had on O-Line. Then you give Kyle MOTHER FUCKING Orton the choice of being the backup with backup pay, or trade his ass to someone dumb enough to take him, like say the Vikings or Redskins, for more depth at the line. I'd like to think that Elway is smart enough to do something along those lines, but this whole fiasco has kind of made me question if they have anything resembling a plan at all.

This is incredibly petty, stupid, and short-sighted. Love or hate him, Tebow will put asses in seats, which helps pay this year's bills. How many Orton jerseys you see in those stands?

There's someone out there in the NFL who wants to copy what Carolina is doing with Newton, and Tebow is the only guy like him to come out recently. They can prolly get a couple mid-round picks, which is a great place to build line depth, but just cutting him so he knows how much you hate him is probably the better choice.

Elway is a dumb motherfucker for even letting Orton walk on the field as the starter this season. If he didn't like Tebow, he should have made a move to replace him, not hope to suck bad enough to win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Even if he was absolutely unable to dredge up something better, Tebow was still a better choice than Orton, and at least then they could have tailored the scheme to Tebow's strength.

Now, they're truly fucked in that they are trying to retune the offense in mid-season, but still not fucked enough to out-suck Indy and the fish for the top picks. For the Broncos sake, I hope someone else steps in before draft day, or I think it's going to be Matt Millen all over again.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 3, 2011, 9:43 pm

[quote="masteen"]This is incredibly petty, stupid, and short-sighted. Love or hate him, Tebow will put asses in seats, which helps pay this year's bills. How many Orton jerseys you see in those stands?

How many asses in seats and Tebow jerseys will be sold after his last pathetic game?

masteen + Tewow = Love Connection

You need to step back and look at things unbiasedly.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 3, 2011, 10:05 pm

Uh, by now everyone knows that Newton is far superior aside from maybe running. Maybe.

Footwork and accuracy/arm strength were never a concern. Plus, Tebow wouldn't cost 2 picks! Maybe a 6 or 7 round pick, but he really doesn't have trade value as a QB unless he does a QB skillset 180.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » November 4, 2011, 5:52 pm

masteen wrote:There's someone out there in the NFL who wants to copy what Carolina is doing with Newton, and Tebow is the only guy like him to come out recently. They can prolly get a couple mid-round picks, which is a great place to build line depth, but just cutting him so he knows how much you hate him is probably the better choice.

Who is that stupid and blind? Tebow doesn't have anything close to Newton's skill set. Even with a full season of camps, practices and games under his belt, Tebow doesn't hold a candle to Newton, who had only this abbreviated pre-season to get up to speed. Please don't bother mentioning his "win" against one of the most woeful franchises in the NFL either: Detroit showed exactly what Tebow is capable of against decent teams.

masteen wrote:Elway is a dumb motherfucker for even letting Orton walk on the field as the starter this season. If he didn't like Tebow, he should have made a move to replace him, not hope to suck bad enough to win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Even if he was absolutely unable to dredge up something better, Tebow was still a better choice than Orton, and at least then they could have tailored the scheme to Tebow's strength.

Orton was all they had, for better or for worse. The problem Denver had was they had no leverage to get a better QB. As for Tebow being better than Orton, I didn't watch their camp, so I have to take the word of those who did, when they said Tebow deserved to be behind Orton and Quinn.

masteen wrote:Now, they're truly fucked in that they are trying to retune the offense in mid-season, but still not fucked enough to out-suck Indy and the fish for the top picks. For the Broncos sake, I hope someone else steps in before draft day, or I think it's going to be Matt Millen all over again.

McDaniels was the one who put them on the "Matt Millen Road", drafting Tebow way higher than anyone in their right mind thought he should go. Now the Broncorpses have to play the hand and build... and no one, besides you and Skip Bayless seem to think Tebow is any kind of answer, without some major work on his mechanics and some hellacious coaching.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » November 4, 2011, 9:57 pm

Peyton Manning should win the MVP award this year, even if he never takes a snap.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 7, 2011, 11:25 am

Tebow didn't do too bad at all yesterday.
His mechanics are still terrible and his decision making is suspect but the playcalling worked to his strengths and he didn't make any costly mistakes.
Good for him!

That Packers/Chargers games was fucking awesome even though the wrong team won.

Rivers did his best to give the game away... then win it back, only to come up short in the 4th.
Rodgers is just scary. That dude is such an efficient QB. I'll be shocked if the Packers don't make it back to the Superbowl this year.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 7, 2011, 11:38 am

Patrick Peterson is a beast of a punt returner. In his first 8 games he's returned three punts for TDs, each of the runs has been spectacular, breaking multiple tackles, etc.

It's not just that he's returned three punts so quickly in his career but the way he's done it, busting through multiple tackle attempts for 90+ yard returns. I need to track down a video that has all three back to back.

Other than that, the 49ers keep winning so there's almost zero chance for Arizona to catch them this year.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 7, 2011, 12:49 pm

Was wondering when Eddie Royal would show up.

Tebow played better, and it was a better game plan by the coaches. However, that throwing motion....yikes! I felt like I could almost reach into the screen and swat the ball away.

Carson Palmer may end up being a good deal for Oakland. They have some serious talent and speed at WR.

Chargers lose..haha!

Indy....wowful

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 7, 2011, 3:14 pm

Chris Harris interception dance. Haha!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 7, 2011, 3:17 pm

miir wrote:That Packers/Chargers games was fucking awesome even though the wrong team won.

Wrong!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 7, 2011, 9:01 pm

This year's Punt TDs by Patrick Peterson

vs Panthers (his first regular season game)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2HWD81hEOE

vs Ravens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvLIcGbVwzM

vs Rams (best one!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35toarWkFDg

Powerful runner combined with speed and vision. Nice!

Laron Stephens Howling is a very good kick off returner for the Cardinals but it'd be nice to see this guy back on kick offs as well.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 7, 2011, 9:33 pm

Good returner. Needs some work at CB though...

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 8, 2011, 9:19 pm

Plus, the Cards actually have to make opposing teams punt for him to be a factor. Which I guess the Rams are bad enough to facilitate....

Chargers pretty much demonstrated the only way anyone is going to beat GB this season (unless you have a running game), which is onside kick every fucking time because they are just going to score anyhow. The GB Defense looked pretty terrible late in the game, but when you start the 4th up by two scores it just doesn't matter.

Bears knocking off the Eagles was pretty hilarious, but it puts Detroit in a worse position because now they will be racing the Bears for that last wild card slot, making next weeks game even more critical.

Steelers Ravens game might be the second dirtiest game ever played, but even with tons of officiating help, the Steelers still could not pull out the win.

Giants beating the Pats in their own house pretty much confirms to me that everyone has Brady figured out now.

San Fran keeps winning tough. I think the NFC championship will be the Niners visiting GB and the winner of that game (likely GB) will take it all, since the AFC is such a cluster fuck right now.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 9, 2011, 1:29 am

Jice Virago wrote:Plus, the Cards actually have to make opposing teams punt for him to be a factor. Which I guess the Rams are bad enough to facilitate...

So three out of eight teams have punted to him so far. Not bad. Maybe they'll learn that you can't try to punt and drop it at the goal line because Peterson will return it anyway. At worst, that would give the cardinals the 20 yard line each time.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 9, 2011, 12:10 pm

Still that would be a pretty odd strategy I think. Totally dependent on the defense to hold the other team so they would have to punt to one of your best weapons. If the best weapon on your team is the punt returner there are major issues to address.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 9, 2011, 12:42 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:Still that would be a pretty odd strategy I think. Totally dependent on the defense to hold the other team so they would have to punt to one of your best weapons. If the best weapon on your team is the punt returner there are major issues to address.

It's not a strategy. They just happen to have a really good punt returner as part of the team.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 9, 2011, 12:48 pm

Which you cannot really capitolize on if your defense cannot stop the opposing offense. This is why Hester gets so much play, because the Bears actually have a solid defense. But even the Bears started working him into the regular starting offense. Anyhow, amazing ballsy runback by him to seal that game, but its going to make the Suck for Luck race come down to Indy and Miami.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 9, 2011, 2:59 pm

I think Peterson can be a quality outside CB. It is one of those positions that can take a few years for a guy to come into his own, much like receivers. Some guys make an immediate impact, some take some more time. Peterson will need to be a good CB soon to be worth the top 5 pick. Punt returning is bonus, of course.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 9, 2011, 3:30 pm

you know...Patrick Peterson also has a pick for a TD as well this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWePR2HYS4s

That's 4 TD's on defense/special teams for him.

An article from ESPN breaking down his Punt Return:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/ ... ard-return

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 14, 2011, 3:20 pm

Kyle Orton's vagina: 1 - 4
Tebow and Jesus and Pals: 3 - 1

Just saying...

miir · Post by **miir** » November 14, 2011, 5:16 pm

I think pretty much everyone here couldn't fucking stand Orton...

Just sayin.

And if the best you can do is brag about him being than better than Orton...

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 14, 2011, 6:55 pm

miir wrote:I think pretty much everyone here couldn't fucking stand Orton...

Just sayin.

And if the best you can do is brag about him being than better than Orton...

Hey, a month ago, most of y'all were predicting that he'd get pulled in favor of that goddamn neckbeard.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 14, 2011, 6:56 pm

In the losers pool I am in we lost 16 people this week so far just from Arizona, Oakland, and Seattle winning. That leaves the 2 people who chose Buffalo and the 4 people (including me) who picked the Vikings to lose. Our pool had already lost 35 people previously. So the Vikings must lose tonight so I can continue towards that huge cash prize.

almost had tickets for tonights game too mutter.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 14, 2011, 6:58 pm

Rome was saying that he was hoping that he would see a team win a game where the QB had no completions whatsoever. Tebow ruined that by throwing 2 completions. He finished that game with a 102.6 QB rating. HAH, he only went 2 for 8.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 14, 2011, 8:55 pm

masteen wrote:Hey, a month ago, most of y'all were predicting that he'd get pulled in favor of that goddamn neckbeard.

A month ago we were all laughing our asses off at how fucking terrible Orton was.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 15, 2011, 12:50 pm

Oh, we're still laughing about both. Flynn (Rodgers backup), who has taken all of two snaps prior to this season, put up better numbers in the one quarter he sat in for Rodgers. I'm pretty sure the Broncos could have put their punter under center and he would have put up the same numbers as Tebow.

Anyhow, wtf was the head coach of the Falcons thinking in OT in that game. Talk about a wasted opportunity, thats the kind of call that gets your entire team to turn on a coach. Terrible ending to what was probably the best game of the weekend.

Lions are proving me right, with their undisciplined dirty play riddled shelacking at the hands of the Bears. If Stafford's hand is really hurt, he probably shouldn't be pulling DBs down by the facemask in his spare time, which he will have a lot of since the Lions are not going to be in the playoffs again (/drumfill). Losing to Chicago by such a wide margin puts them in a really shitty position for wild card tie breakers, with Chicago and Atlanta both likely to have identical records to the Lions at the end of the season. Also, they need to dial back the dirty play or else everyone is going to just donkey punch them while the refs look the other way, just ask Oakland about that.

Despite arguably the most intense pass rush he has faced all season, Rodgers put on a fucking clinic last night. After seeing Flynn come in cold and walk them down the field, I am starting to think that the scheme is a bigger part of the Packers success rather than just Rodgers talent (which is considerable). Glad to see Capers let the dogs loose for a game, as the Packer D is going to need some momentum rolling into December. You simply cannot expect even the Packer offense to score at will when the weather gets worse.

Also, I guess the Pats will be winning the division this year after all, since apparently the Ground and Pound Jets lack the defensive manpower to run the man press coverage that everyone else has been shutting Brady down with lately. Jets are officially done, I think. Pats will still be done in one game in the playoffs, probably to whatever team manages to pull their heads out of their ass long enough to win the AFC North, which is the most schitzophrenic division in football.

Finally, lets hear it for NFC West Domination! All for teams won this week, which hasn't happened in like two years?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 15, 2011, 2:22 pm

I can't imagine the read-option/triple option will be sustainable over the long run. If I am wrong, however, it wouldn't bother me. A better scenario would be if they can teach Tebow to be a better passer in short drops/blitz/hot read situations. Reading defenses comes with experience.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 15, 2011, 3:22 pm

They just need to sign a real QB and drop Tebow to fullback.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 15, 2011, 3:55 pm

Pretty sharp drop-off after Barkley in the 2012 draft. =/

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 15, 2011, 6:19 pm

Fitgerald: 100 yrds/2 TDs!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » November 16, 2011, 9:34 am

If tebow can learn to pass he will be a huge threat. Just like Vick is, when he's not retarded. Having a defender assigned to shadow the QB instead of dropping in coverage or blitzing is one less guy the line has to block or the receiver has to beat. And then when they stop shadowing, tebow runs for 10 yards. I am not a fan of the "running" quarterback because they just can't sustain healthy seasons, but it could work with Tebow just like it does for Vick.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 16, 2011, 9:40 am

Is it really working for Vick? What's their record this year? I think it's even worse than Denvers!

miir · Post by **miir** » November 16, 2011, 10:36 am

Tebow is the next Kordell Stewart!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » November 16, 2011, 11:07 am

I didn't say he was going to win a superbowl, just that when vick is healthy, that's when those "running qb's" work. Tebow is not, and will never be, a pocket passer, so Vick is the obvious comparison imo. If I were running a team, I would never, ever, ever, ever go with a running qb. But if I were John Fox, and I was stuck with the old coach's decisions/players...I would work with what I have...which is getting Tebow to emulate Vick

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 16, 2011, 12:28 pm

Except you replace sprint rollouts with inside draw-reads because, unlike Vick, Tebow can take a hit without breaking.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2011, 12:28 pm

Aslanna hit the nail on the head. McNabb was arguably the most successful running QB in history, in terms of getting to and winning post season games, and even he never made the Superbowl, plus he got hurt a lot. The dude needs to learn how to pass or else Denver had better get used to a long string of 8-8 seasons, which I guess is improvement and could win that division this year....

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2011, 12:33 pm

masteen wrote:Except you replace sprint rollouts with inside draw-reads because, unlike Vick, Tebow can take a hit without breaking.

This year. But every hit he takes brings him a lot closer to meeting Jesus in person. McNabb lasted longer than any other running QB (and he arguably was more of a hybrid) and he started getting injury prone later in his career, not to mention his throwing arm is now washed up completely. Every other running QB tends to burn out faster than the average RB in the NFL, which with his lack of field awareness will probably be really fast in Tebow's case. The dude needs to learn fundementals and evolve into a passing QB if he intends to have any longevity, plus executing a draw read implies the ability to read opposing defenses, which Tebow has not demonstrated at all.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 16, 2011, 12:37 pm

How about trade Tebow for Ryan Mallett (NE) and then Timmy can join forces with Brady and become the DREAMY TEAM!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 16, 2011, 12:53 pm

Jice Virago wrote:
masteen wrote:Except you replace sprint rollouts with inside draw-reads because, unlike Vick, Tebow can take a hit without breaking.
This year. But every hit he takes brings him a lot closer to meeting Jesus in person. McNabb lasted longer than any other running QB (and he arguably was more of a hybrid) and he started getting injury prone later in his career, not to mention his throwing arm is now washed up completely. Every other running QB tends to burn out faster than the average RB in the NFL, which with his lack of field awareness will probably be really fast in Tebow's case. The dude needs to learn fundementals and evolve into a passing QB if he intends to have any longevity, plus executing a draw read implies the ability to read opposing defenses, which Tebow has not demonstrated at all.

You sound just like the crusty SEC dickbags who were down on him coming into college. Same tired old criticisms, same weak-ass old arguments about how ALL QBs must fit into your QB-shaped-box. Tebow was durable as fuck throughout his career at Florida. He had two injuries in his entire career, one of which was one of those freak accidents, neither of which required anything more than rest to heal.

How about Denver get him someone other than Decker who can run fast and catch the ball?

miir · Post by **miir** » November 16, 2011, 1:18 pm

Michael Vick had 2 injuries during his college 'career' as well... one of which was a freak accident!!
And OMG they are both left handed!!!!1

miir · Post by **miir** » November 16, 2011, 1:26 pm

And for fuck sakes, stop talking about what he did in college...
College ball and the NFL are two totally fucking different games.

In college, Tebow was a 70% passer.
In the NFL, he's a 45% passer.

In college he rushed for 60 yards a game.
In the NFL he's rushing for 34 yards a game.

In college he had a 175 rating.
In the NFL he's got a 81 rating.

I think Tebow is an excellent football player... he's just not a very good NFL quarterback.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 16, 2011, 2:04 pm

Larry Fitzgerald named offensive player of the week! He sucks!

Horrible frame rate but good video about Larry Fitzgerald, interview with Todd Haley. (who I hate)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLoS6LFghnU

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2011, 5:33 pm

LOL Masteen what is it with your mancrush on Tebow anyway? And for the record, I am from Wisconsin and still think that QBs should be throwing the ball and RBs running the ball. Odd concept, I know....

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 16, 2011, 6:06 pm

Well, he better get better at throwing soon or the receivers are going to go apeshit. Must be a mental thing since it seems he has one or more perfect deep tosses per game. Those inside and timing tosses are another matter.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 16, 2011, 6:53 pm

Hrmmm I can see it now, "OMG, we have 11 in the box"!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2011, 8:10 pm

Hell, thats what I would do. Why the fuck not? All he is going to do is run 90% of the time. Two or three pops to the kisser and he will start looking for the hit and have even less downfield awareness.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 16, 2011, 8:50 pm

I'm a UF grad, and got to see young Tim do his thing in person a few times, including the 2008 BCS title game.

But mostly, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlIQFf7A5wY

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 16, 2011, 10:29 pm

The problem is you seem to take criticism against him personally. When most people are just criticizing him based on his performance. Yes the Broncos have won a few games since he's been QB but his stats have been TERRIBLE! I don't think you can argue that.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 17, 2011, 12:10 pm

Definitely not, but what's more important stats or wins?

Denver is a bad team. They're still a bad team with Tebow at the helm, but they're not as bad as they were with Orton. So clearly Tim is a guy that makes his teammates play better. Doesn't he deserve a shot to see what he could do on a team with some fucking talent running a system that plays to his strengths?